Friday, April 25, 2008

Why Won't the LibDems Fight the BNP Properly?

The BNP is contesting 562, or 19.8% of the seats in the local elections on Thursday. This is a large increase on the 6.8% of seats they contested last year, although because fewer seats are up for election in numbers terms it is a drop from 717 to 562.

Of the wards BNP are contesting, only 13 are they not being contested by a Conservative and in 9 by Labour. The Liberal Democrats are not fighting the BNP in 126 of the wards. Why aren't the Lib Dems as committed to fighting BNP as the other parties?

UPDATE 7pm: Well this post has certainly provoked a backlash. Perhaps I could reassure my LibDem friends that I was not accusing them of being anything other than incompetent. In my view the BNP must be taken on wherever they stand. Not to put up candidates in those seats is self defeating and merely restricts the voter's options. The LibDems are often the "none of the above" party and could well take votes from BNP candidates. I just don't buy the argument about not splitting the anti-BNP vote. I accept that the LibDems do not have the depth of resources of the other parties and that local candidates are ncreasingly hard to find. But surely it ought to be a priority to put up a candidate against the BNP, even if it is a paper one?

105 comments:

Anonymous said...

Wouldnt not putting candidates up actually help to defeat BNP more, as they won't take votes of Tories or Labour?

Just a thought.

Anonymous said...

I'm not a Lib Dem, but this still strikes me as a nasty attempt at a smear.

Desperate Dan said...

They probably recognise that people who've been the victims of ethnic cleansing, who've been removed to the outer fringes of London and other cities and who are invited to choose between a limited range of ethnic minority candidates, are in no mood to vote for liberalism in any form. It is considered to be perfectly reasonable if religious/ethnic minorities demand that political candidates - as well as doctors, dentists, and lawyers - conform to their own religious/ethnic sensibilities. Potential BNP voters have now learnt that generosity and tolerance have got them nowhere.

Anonymous said...

Probably because they realise that under the ridiculous FPTP system the best way of fighting them is to stand aside for another candidate to avoid splitting the anti-BNP vote. If the BNP win by fewer votes than any of the Tory candidates standing against them gets then the Tories have let them in.

wrinkled weasel said...

Why aren't you acknowledging that the BNP have as much right to promote their agenda as you promote yours? The Lib Dems are irrelevant. As for Tories not contesting BNP seats, if they listened to people like me who want the ISSUE of immigration and "multicultural" fascism addressed and debated honestly,and the obvious institutional discrimination against white middle class Christian voters, maybe the BNP and their supporters would go away.

The alternative is that I am forced into voting for a party whose putative aims are diametrically opposed to everything I believe.

Alex said...

They don't want to split the protest vote.

Adrian Yalland said...

because their party cannot muster enough candidates?

Anonymous said...

@wicked weasel:

I am a middle-aged, middle-class, white, (nominally) Christian voter and I see no "obvious" discrimination against me or my kind.

What on earth is happening to you??

Josh said...

I question your statistics on the grounds that you haven't justified them.

So the LibDems aren't contesting a quarter of the seats the BNP are contesting. How does this differ from the overall picture? If the LibDems aren't contesting a similar number of all the seats up for grabs, then this isn't about LibDems not wanting to fight the BNP, but rather about the LibDems not wanting to fight big elections (they prefer by-elections).

Another issue with you post is that it is an exercise in innuendo. As others have said, it could be they are not wanting to help let the BNP in through the back door (although I doubt that). How about them not just being strong enough to put up a candidate in areas prone to BNP support?

There could be a million and one honourable reasons why the LibDems are less prone to fighting the BNP, if that statement is even true as I mentioned above.

The LibDems really do bring out the worst in you, Iain.

PS, when's Doughty Street coming back?

Iain Dale said...

Josh, do you really think I would make these figures up? If so, why do you even bother reading what I write if you have such a low opinion of me?

If there are a million honourable reasons I'd love to know what they are. So far none has been provided. You have to admit that the difference is very stark.

Doughty Street is not coming back.

Anonymous said...

This is a completely specious and pathetic assertion unless you know (which you either don't or you do and choose not to mention) that the Liberals are fielding as many candidates as Labour and Tories generally but are deliberately not contesting BNP-fought wards. I suspect they're not and their failure to contest these wards is a reflection of a general paucity of candidates.

You could easily check this I'm sure, but the facts might blow your cheap and nasty smear out of the water mighnt't they

Anonymous said...

Many vote Lib Dem as a protest vote. If the choice is between Lab, Con and BNP some who would otherwise vote Lib Dem will vote BNP.

Lib Dems should stand.

John W said...

This really is a most ridiculous post:

1. People who vote for the LD will not vote for the BNP (by enlarge) and so by not fielding candidates they are in fact helping to defeat them.
2. I don't imagine that when the LD's are selecting where to stand whether the BNP are standing does much for deciding it, unless of course they take into account point 1 and don't stand.
3. BNP voters will vote for either Conservative or Labour depending on their politics (apart from their racism) the real figure you should be giving us are where aren't Lab or Con standing and the BNP are.
4. If the main parties were committed to fighting the BNP then in wards where there was a chance of them winning a Lib/Lab/Con coalition should field a candidate who is the most popular out of the three prospective candidates of the those parties, or perhaps even an independent.
5. The BNP have made such inroads into politics as the mass of people become disconnected from the political process, ie tumbling party membership figures and a fall in local activism. The LD's have been the party least prone to this, and in fact are pretty good at local engagement hence why they often win bye-elections and hold a disproportionate number of councils given their size in the HP. Lab are most to blame with Cons a close second notwithstanding a recent upsurge in activity which is to be applauded.

As for those who say the BNP should be heard etc etc: The BNP are the equivalent of early 1930's Nazis - it's true that many decent people canvass and indeed vote for them for justifiable reasons, just as with Hitler's party, but at their core they are evil. Many people could see that in Weimar Germany and many people can see it now in our country. If you have sympathetic feelings towards the BNP you are being played and duped and you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

(I am a member of the Conservative Party btw.)

Tristan said...

What a smear. A bit excessive even for you Iain.

I can't help thinking that you'd be complaining if the LibDems were fighting them because then they'd be 'splitting the vote'.

matt severn said...

This is a pathetic attempt at a smear. As has been remarked, it could be a conscientious decision to prevent the BNP from winning by not splitting the anti-racist vote.

Secondly, the lib dems are a smaller party, though they have been successful in punching above their weight.

Maybe Iain is still upset after getting THRASHED by the lib dems in North Norfolk. Get over yourself.

Josh said...

I didn't say you made them up, I said you read into them what you wanted to see and looked no further.

What proportion of the seats up for election are the LibDems not contesting?

Josh said...

BTW, an unusually defensive reaction from you. You are a journalist with ambitions to be a politician. All your numbers must be questioned. It's nothing personal.

Newmania said...

Iain I`m always up for absusing the traitorous sycophantic Liberals but the 'Newmania is Fab' Party are competing with the BNP in no seats . Its a teeny weeny Party , so what?

Or am I missing the point?

verity said...

I'm with WW. I hope the BNP smash through the barrier as they are the only ones not cowed by the thought fascism of the left. Cameron can't bow low enough. They are the only ones who want to fight for Britain and British people and conserve - or, given that they've been treasonably trashed by the socialists, with the Tories as complacent observers - restore our country's values.

If I were in Britain, I would be voting the BNP today. Sorry, Iain, but there are tens of thousands of lifetime Tories who feel the same as me. Our own party is too cowardly to address issues that Labour has unilaterally and maliciously declared taboo.

OneHourAhead said...

Josh isn't claiming you are making them up Iain. He is simply asking whether when you found this figures, did you check to see whether the Liberal Democrats were not fighting approx a quarter of all seats, not just the ones with the BNP. Did you?

As to why, the simplest explanation would be that, with limited resources, why fight seats that you are unlikely to win (I would guess that in areas that the BNP think winnable are unlikely to see a large Liberal vote) and take possible votes away from the parties that possible BNP supporters would vote for eg. Tories. It would very simply be a waste of resources. Therefore even if the Liberal Democrats were not fighting a disproportionate amount of BNP-fought seats it actually wouldn't be that odd.

These strange non-entity attacks on the Lib Dems are coming somewhat of a bore Iain, stick to writing about your car and ABBA.

Duncan Borrowman said...

I have come across Lib Dems in the past who have said we should not fight BNP wards so as to not split the anti BNP vote. I take the opposite view, that if the main parties all fight the ward and fight it properly it starves the BNP of their "the other parties ignore you and gang up on us" oxygen. I always say we should fight. But many are of the former view of not splitting the vote.

rob's uncle said...

Please provide the source of your numbers, so that we can look at it and form our own view of what is going on, if anything. A confident assertion that something is the case unsupported by a reference to published evidence is not good enough.

I do not know how much experience you have of nitty-gritty of local politics. These matters are decided at ward level and it is often difficult to find even 'paper' candidates. It seems to me more likely that, given the growth in support for the BNP, there is collusion between the other parties to keep them out by reducing the extent of vote-splitting.

prawn sandwich brigade said...

John W "This is amost riduculous post".

Hear hear.

Good well thought out comment, John. Particularly that many good people finding themselves in no man's political land, will vote BNP despite this Party's inherent racism.

(BTW I am neither BNP or LibDem)

verity said...

John W is an illiterate, ill-educated socialist thug. (No offence,dear boy.)

1. People who vote for the LD will not vote for the BNP (by enlarge) Anyone have idea idea what 'by enlarge' means?

3. BNP voters will vote for either Conservative or Labour depending on their politics (apart from their racism).... What "racism" would that be? You do understand, I hope, that only five races make up the human family, and none of them goes by the name of Islam.

I assume your post is in passionate defence of the Muslims and their fine democratic tradition of postal voting.

If you really are referring to actual race, as opposed to a belief system, I don't know any Britons who are hostile to W Indians as a group. I think, though, we could all wish that the socialists hadn't alienated so many of them by providing crap schools and crap education in their areas and ensuring that they will be failures, thus providing the socialists with a permanent handy whip with which to lash the electorate. It is Labour that has sacrificed these young black folk; not the Conservatives.

In turn, I think most of us are tickled pink to have the achieving, brilliant Indians and Jews in our population mix. So I am baffled by your ill thought out use of the word "racism".

I read your point No 4 twice, which is twice more than it merited. I have no idea what you are labouring to say.

5. The BNP have made such inroads into politics as the mass of people become disconnected from the political process, ie tumbling party membership figures and a fall in local activism.

Again, what are you trying to say? That by voting for an alternative to the parties that do not serve the electorate, they are not participating in the political process?

Voting is participating in the political process. In fact that is the definition of the political process. Voting for those we want to represent us.

Your little aperçu was adorable! Why of course you're a member of the Conservative Party, dear boy! We all believe you!

English Grammar said...

The expression, Verity, is "by and large" as every native English speaker knows. Its got something to do with the Navy.

And why have the BNP just won 19% of the vote in Hinckley.

The Surly Beaver said...

Iain,

There is no need to post every bit of propanda sent to you by Conservative headquarters. As others have mentioned, this post is nothing but a cheap smear on the Lib Dems and a pretty desperate and pathetic one at that.

verity said...

English Grammar - "The expression, Verity, is "by and large" as every native English speaker knows. Its got something to do with the Navy."

Yes, I believe we all know that.

Now for your reading exercise, read what I wrote, quoting John W who had set himself up to lecture the rest of us: "1. People who vote for the LD will not vote for the BNP (by enlarge)." Anyone have idea idea what 'by enlarge' means?

A trifle pedantic you might say, but when someone is up on his high horse, hectoring his countrymen on morals, he should be able to speak his native language. It might help you, English Grammar, as a native English speaker, to sharpen up your reading comprehension.

David Lindsay said...

"Than the other parties"?

Boris Johnson can't deny that he can only win with BNP second preferences. He can make a show of not wanting them (yeah, right), but he cannot deny that he can only win with them.

The Political Class wants a breakthrough for the BNP. Numerous Westminster Villagers will be speeding that along in the polling booths of London next week, making sure that the BNP gets the GLA list seat for which it was in any case well on course. And they regard with unalloyed glee the prospect of at least eight BNP MEPs next year.

It would secure First Past The Post for at least a generation. It would be the excuse for all manner of repressive measures aimed mostly at the white working class, and therefore likely to receive little or no media coverage.

And it would confirm all their own prejudices, and enable them to denounce “pandering” to actual or potential BNP voters.

Jilted John said...

Your little aperçu was adorable! Why of course you're a member of the Conservative Party, dear boy! We all believe you!

Verity, if you'd happily vote BNP then you are the worst 'lifetime tory' ever, dear girl.

The BNP advocate collectivist policies (nationalisation, introduction of co-operatives) which means they are socialists. In fact pretty much the only thing that separates them from traditional socialists is the fact that they are prepared to advocate discrete treatments for different races.*

So what you seem to be saying is that - as a conservative - you'd vote for a socialist party because you happen to like the fact that they want to treat different races differently? I'm glad you're not voting in this country. In fact, on the basis of the political nous you're displaying here, I'm not convinced you should be allowed to vote anywhere.

* a less charitable person than I might say "they are racists." But, as we know, because they keep telling us, they're not. The fact that some of their members go and get themselves convicted of racial abuse etc (vide Alan Gould / Richard Edmonds) is merely an unfortunate coincidence.

rob's uncle said...

'by and large: advb. phr.  
1. Naut. To the wind (within six points; cf. BY prep. 9) and off it.
1669 STURMY Mariner's Mag. 17 Thus you see the ship handled in fair weather and foul, by and learge.

2. In one direction and another, all ways; now esp., in a general aspect, without entering into details, on the whole.
1706 [see LARGE adv. 7b]. 1769 in Southern Lit. Mess. XVII. 183/2 Miss Betsey, a charming frigate, that will do honour to our country, if you take her by and large.' [OED]

'By enlarge' is wrong but no wronger than, say, 'bored of', which is creeping into acceptable written English.

Diversity said...

Simple, really, Iain. The BNP does not see much hope where LibDems are strong, so does not fight those seats. LibDems don't go out of their way to divide the anti-BNP vote.

Anonymous said...

What an utterly pointless question.
You might as well ask why is Ian Dale giving the BNP the oxygen of publicity at this time? Perhaps that would make more sense?

newmania's mum said...

Good to see you've revealed yourself as a BNP sympathiser, verity. Fascinating.

Dave H. said...

This isn't your best post Iain, of all the possible reasons why the LD‘s are not fielding so many candidates, I‘m sure lack of anti-BNP feeling was not amongst them!

The reasons behind increasing BNP support are off-topic and well covered by many more able commentators elsewhere. Still, I'm going to throw my own scruffy over-wordy hat in:

Labour and some others are committed to mass immigration not only for the economic benefits, but also for the wider social aim of making Britain more ethnically diverse. An axiom of belief is that diversity is a ‘good thing‘ and naturally something you can‘t have too much of.

For the real hardcore believers, demographic change serves the dual purpose of combating racism (their Room 101) and expressing regret at the racist crimes inflicted by whites on other races(colonialism, slave trade, Nazism). This thinking doesn't appear in a manifesto but if you read statements by key activists, it crops up repeatedly. When no ethnic majority predominates, Britain will finally have atoned for its racist sins.

A (probably mistitled) Community Cohesion Officer describes the process thus:
“...the dismantling of institutional racism is reliant upon the dominant ethnic group either voluntarily relinquishing some of that power, or being coerced or compelled to do so.”

When you look aghast at gaining (but still limited) support for a nationalist party, do you know if the bien pensants mentioned above seriously imagined everyone in the ‘dominant ethnic group‘ was going to be entirely happy with a government committed to handing away ever more resources to newcomers, especially since permission for it was never explicitly sought? More alarming is the realisation that Labour‘s social engineering projects usually end up producing unintended, frequently dire, results.

Since the Conservatives now won't touch this issue with a barge pole, the BNP gets the protest vote.

Anonymous said...

This seems petty and pointless, although I'm sure the Lib Dems will appreciate Iain Dale's renewed focus on them.

Anonymous said...

Why is Mr Dale worried about The BNP?
Is it because they have policies which resonate with FORMER Labour and Tory voters - unlike Dave 'keeping it real' Cameron?

verity said...

Jilted John, who is happy I won't be voting in Britain: But I will. I will not be voting in local elections, but I most assuredly will be voting in the national election.

"So what you seem to be saying is that - as a conservative - you'd vote for a socialist party because you happen to like the fact that they want to treat different races differently?"

Again, what is wrong with you over-emotional men? Where have I said I like the fact that "they want to treat different races differently"?

I'm not sure that they do, actually. They seem to have evolved beyond their early days. They are touting for black members, you know, and I believe already have some who, having fitted into the mainstream of British life are being sidelined by the privileges and special treatment meted out to law-breaking islamics. As in benefits for multiple "wives", for example and taxpayer financing of the Muslim Council fifth column. And not arresting them for wearing niqabs in the public streets.

You must remember, Islam is not a race. It is a religion, freely entered into. No one is responsible for their race. No one was responsible for how they popped out into the world. That is why racism is so stupid.

Religion is by choice.

To nail down my point, which sails over all your heads because it goes against what you want to believe, Islam is a belief system that one is free to leave (although it does attract an automatic death sentence, such is its level of primeval stupidity). People can't leave their race (and nor should they want to).

Stop confounding a religion with a race. There ae Caucasion Muslims in Bosnia, Indo-Muslims in Pakistan, black muslims all over Africa. I don't know why you people cannot grasp that. Don't you ever read anything?

No, I don't want co-operatives and more unions, but I wil hold my nose and vote for them anyway, as will tens of thousands of others, because the Identikit two main parties are not providing solutions to the deliberately caused disintegration of our society under the socialists.

wrinkled weasel said...

Newmania's Mum said,

"you've revealed yourself as a BNP sympathiser, verity"

That does not mean she is a holocaust denier, or that she wants gays castrated. It means she wants the issue of race and immigration on the political agenda.

Try and get this. Try and understand what is going down here. Our police forces, the people who are supposed to defend our freedom, are illegally discriminating in favour of non-white police candidates. They have banned a St George's day march, and yet it is less than two years ago they were allowing Muslims to demonstrated and openly call for the murder of our citizens. Get Real Mister.

Cinnamon said...

You're better off asking:

Why won't the Tories offer real conservative policies that people actually would elect them for?

Many people will be voting BNP because the Tories have abandoned them -- LibDem voters are very far removed from BNP voters in opinion anyway, only the Tories can pick up the protest votes for the BNP. And many people will vote BNP because they know that they won't get in anyway, it's a louder protest than not voting or spoiling the ballot paper.

David Morton said...

The official party advice is always to stand a candidate against the BNP. UNless you can show any direct correlation between uncontested seats by the LD's and BNP contested seats (and you don't) you should shut up.

WHy are the BNP backing Boris for second preferences for mayor? a nice little smear there for us Lib dems to use agianst you but no, good for Boris for telling them to shove last night on TV. you should have as much dignity

Anonymous said...

Why is Iain Dale refusing to fight the BNP is the real question? See dumb isn't it, just like your post.

Tim

Anonymous said...

verity said...
"I hope the BNP smash through the barrier as they are the only ones not cowed by the thought fascism of the left. Cameron can't bow low enough."

Never heard of UKIP?

Jilted John said...

Again, what is wrong with you over-emotional men? Where have I said I like the fact that "they want to treat different races differently"?

It's hardly rocket science, but I'll take you through it anyway.

- the BNP advocate socialist policies.

- the only difference between their brand of politics and socialism is that they also advocate race-based policies, displayed in their opposition to mixed-race relationships, their belief that non-whites are not British (they have stated in the past that whites would have some preferences) alongside their anti-Islamic and anti-homosexual policies.

- If we can believe you on the subject of your own beliefs (can we?) then you are a right-wing traditional conservative.

- therefore, it follows that, given that you are opposed to socialism, it is their other policies that garner your support - indeed, enough support that you are prepared to recuse conservatism.

You are, of course, quite right to state that Islamism is not a race. I never conflated it with one. I should state that I'm no fan of militant Islamism myself, especially not when it seeks to undermine British law or curtail freedoms, be they of speech, belief, dress or anything else. I think that the Racial and Religious Hatred Act was an appalling slight to freedom of speech. Your point, such as it was, has not "sailed over my head" or anywhere near my head, because it is not the BNP's attitude to Islam that I was alluding to, nor have at any stage. It is their attitude to people with a different colour of skin that gets up my nose.

Clearer now?

Anonymous said...

"wrinkled weasel said...
Why aren't you acknowledging that the BNP have as much right to promote their agenda as you promote yours? The Lib Dems are irrelevant."

If the Lib Dems are irrelevant, why do they get far more votes than the BNP?

Norfolk Blogger said...

Oh dear Iain. This is REALLY desperate and I have come to expect better.

Are you seriously suggesting the Lib Dems are choosing deliberately not to oppose the BNP ? If this is your assetion then you know that you are lying. if it is not your view, then why not give out the full facts about where the BNP are standing. Have you not noticed that they field candidates in areas where the Lib Dems are not strong and have a history of not fielding candidates in the past ?

Very silly.

stuart said...

The LibDems always field fewer candidates than the other two parties. As a LibDem I wish that we didn't. It's just, I guess, a result of being a smaller party.

That is why the party isn't fielding candidates in as many BNP-contested wards. We are probably fielding fewer candidates in Green-contested wards too.

To suggest anything more (i.e. that LibDems are a bunch of racists wanting to give the BNP a clear run) is ludicrous in the extreme.

If one tested the views of Tories and LibDems on race and immigration then I think I know which party would come out of that better.

Come on, Iain, you are better than this.

Anonymous said...

Verity said ... "You do understand, I hope, that only five races make up the human family"

What do you reckon those 5 races are?

Anonymous said...

Verity said ... "It might help you, English Grammar, as a native English speaker, to sharpen up your reading comprehension."

Perhaps you should do the same. Assuming you are a native English speaker.

Adrian Yalland said...

Verity! Thought you were a free marketeer? Why would you vote for a nationalist socialist party like the BNP.

How anyone who is 'liberal' can associate with a party who do not treat people as individuals, but lump them together by race is beyond me!

The point is, at its core, the BNP are a bunch of nasty thuggish racists. But they create an air of pseudo-respectability by talking in a way which makes them attractive to both Labour and Conservative voters who feel disillusioned because their respective parties simply refuse to address the problems created by the post-Scarman approach to race relations, and which impact on them. For the Labour voter, it is declining access to public services and the loss of low-skilled jobs. For the Tory voter, it is cultural differences, perceptions of immigrant fuelled crime, and tax increases being spent on immigrant communities.

This post-Scarman approach has created an atmosphere in which people feel (rightly or wrongly) that ethnic minority communities and immigrants receive preferential treatment. This perception is also magnified through the telescope of islamo-facism.

I personally believe that, outside of the inner cities which are often run by politically correct do-gooding lefties, the perception is largely wrong, and that where the 'rights' of the 'indigenous' white Brit are infringed, it is probably not their actual rights, but is more a cultural clash.

Essentially, immigrants have settled here. Many have integrated, some have not. The immigrant communities have grown increasingly politically active and have mobilised themselves, supported by PC lefties, who using guilt politics have ensured that measures aimed to 'advance' the lot of BME communities can never be challenged, and that anyone who does challenge it is labelled 'racist'. THis has meant the whole debate stopped after the Brixton riots, and has not started up since!

The backlash is now starting because indigenous (white - mostly) people are starting to feel alienated by a number of factors post-Scarman. Then, usually decent white people feel tempted to vote BNP, and BME communities can be forgiven for replying 'see - Britain is a racist country, and we must be ever more forecful in defending ourselves' - which means we are in a vicious circle.

What we need is an honest and dispassionate debate about race relations, multiculturalism and how the country goes forward.

The subject needs to have some of the heat taken out of it before the BNP really gain a foothold.

This won;t happen when the main parties refuse to engage on debate, when the left calls anyone who even dares mention the subject 'racist' and whilst nutters like Verity vote for people who will make the problem 10 times worse!

Ian Thorpe said...

I live in Accrington, just up the road from Burnley a BNP stronghold. Now Lib Dems are rare as rocking horse poo in this part of the world. Surely it makes sense to contest the wards they can win.

Here in Accrington we have a handful of excellent Asian candidates for the Lib Dems - and no BNP candidates for them to take on.

So really your post is just a chaep shot Iain, the Lib Dems have thrown down the Northerners challenge, "Come and have a go if you think your hard enough," and the BNP prefer to skulk in their own back alley.

asquith said...

Whenever the BNP get elected, they prove to be utterly incompetent and very often get kicked straight back out again. Protest voters soon realise their mistake if they elect someone BNP.

And try reading some of their election leaflets. Not only are they utterly repulsive, they're also quite clearly aimed at morons.

asquith said...

Also. I'm a member of the "white working class" (council tenant, sink estate, low income, what have you) and I've got more in common with immigrants than I have with authoritarian divs like Nick Griffin. If asylum seekers were allowed to work most of them would. No one would choose to live on less than £40 p/w benefits. They could make a contribution to society if the restrictions on them were lifted.

I work with a refugee (now granted citizenship), and it must be said that I find her attractive. She doesn't speak very good English, so it takes her eternity to say anything. But what she says is more intelligent than anything I've heard any BNP voter (of whom there are many in this city) come out with. Perhaps we could get married. :)

Anonymous said...

LibDems are a disorganised shower in some places as well as being well on the wane in terms of electoral popularity. That more than anything explains their inability to field candidates. They probably hate the BNP nearly as much as Labour do, in fact since pre Clegg the LD's were way to the left of Labour, probably more than Labour do.

It is also true that if the major parties would stop ignoring the very real issues of immigration, the complete failure of multiculturalism and increasing Islamic imperialism, then the BNP would be nowhere. They thrive because of the craven fear amongst our ruling classes of confronting these key issues and acknowledging that something needs to change.

GAZTOP said...

Can you give me a full list of every labour and tory candidate in N.Ireland for the last few elections ?

GAZTOP

ferguson said...

This combative stance to the BNP only reinforces their identity as embattled saviors. If you want to defeat the BNP, laugh at them or ignore them.

asquith said...

Interesting point, ferguson. I've always been an advocate of letting the BNP speak their minds. They should take part in debates, because they'll be flayed alive by any remotely intelligent person and then the audience will know better than to vote for them. Let the feckers hang themselves!

verity said...

Adrian Yelland - Do they put something in the drinking water over there? One large bag of stupid for every neighbourhood?

"Thought you were a free marketeer? Why would you vote for a nationalist socialist party like the BNP."

You are correct. I have not been posting under a delusion for the past two years. I am a free marketeer. I am against government involvement in just about everything. I am for a tiny, tiny, tiny, minimalist government. I am a far right winger. I am a red in tooth and claw capitalist. I believe the government should mind its own business, which is collecting the bare minimum of taxes - no wealth redistribution; if you're able-bodied and don't work, I guess you have chosen to starve to death. So sad.

And defending our shores. Everything else is for the citizenry to attend to.

Unfortunately, there is no party in Britain representing my views, and I have thus been disenfranchised. David Cameron's a little Me-Too-er tagging along after the socialists. He understands nothing except that he wants his feet under the desk at No 10. Currently, people in Britain have absolutely no choice because both the main parties are on the far left.

The constituency in which I will be voting at the GE is in absolutely no danger, by any stretch, of returning someone from the BNP. I will be voting for them to give Cameron and his fellow socialists-lite, the finger. I suspect the Conservatives' majority will be very much reduced and that will scare the pants of them.

I would have thought you could have figured that out, Adrian Yelland, as that is what I have been saying in posts on this thread and on previous threads. And I write straightforwardly, without veiled allusions.

We're not going to get "an honest debate" so shelve that thought. We have to put the screws on the Conservatives and let them know they can't take us for granted and that we can and will go elsewhere unless they do as we, the voters, their bosses, direct. Cameron's an employee of the taxpayer and needs to learn to listen to his masters.

I'm sick of his smug face and all his little vacuous pr tricks. We want policies and we want policies of the right. Cameron wants to be PM. He thinks this is the way to go about it. Be the heir to Blair! Wrong!

Some nit - can't be bothered to look back - asked in a condescending tone, what I "reckon" the five major races of the human race are. It's what anthropologists "reckon", not me. I'm not an anthropologist. I just read the experts. There are five major races (with sub-divisions). Think about it. Clue: Islam is not one of them.

I have a feeling you don't approve of anthropology because you believe the word 'race' is a swear word. Some people are so easily influenced.

verity said...

Anon 7:44 - Quite.

Tony Blair and his minions, like the simply revolting Jack Straw, spread lies about Islam because they need the vote. (How did all these immigrants get the vote in our country, by the way?)

When 7/7 was perpetrated against us, the first thing Blair did was get himself on TV and sternly warn the British not to take reprisals. Not to defend themselves. Because it was a "tiny minority" of Muslims who were aggressive.

Later opinon polls - can't remember the exact figures after this passage of time - but around 40% of Muslims "could understand" why the suicide nutjobs acted as they did. Hardly Tone's "tiny minority". Then he quickly convened a Muslim advisory panel for Downing St.

Why? What advice was he looking for? And who was on the panel? Some nutbag Muslim or half-Muslim barrister who practised out of his council flat in London somewhere and Cat Stevens, who is banned from entering the United States. Tony Blair's actions and words were deliberate subversion. And no one of either party has ever disavowed them.

Westmorlander said...

You know, the thing that really fascinates me is the number of posters who say "I used to be Tory, but I'm voting BNP now because..."

Now, either (a) they are BNP trolls (which is likely) or (b) they don't really understand what the BNP are. Perhaps I should explain. The BNP are modelled on the Nazi's, and THEY were a national socialist party.

It's like someone like a life long Tory like, say, Quentin Letts suddenly saying, "Actually I'm a socialist".

To use the vernacular, it's bollocks. Letts is no more a socialist than Margaret Thatcher and a ex Tory voting BNP really , really, misunderstands what the BNP stand for.

FFS, read the manifesto before giving your vote to black-shit-scum

(and, yes, I know I misspelt shirt)

Westmorlander

Anonymous said...

Verity said ..... "if you're able-bodied and don't work, I guess you have chosen to starve to death. So sad."

Do you work then?

Anonymous said...

Verity said .... "You are correct. I have not been posting under a delusion for the past two years."

More like 5 years.

verity said...

Westmorelander - God, you people have such miniscule thinking apparatus.

The people you so loftily disavow, such as me, don't take instruction from people of limited vision like yourself.

Please try to grasp this point, because it is the key to understanding why people like me are going to vote for the BNP: There is no Tory party to vote for just now. They are Labour-Lite Lite.

We are going to hold two fingers up to them with this message: Get some real Tories running this party or we will make your enemy stronger by voting for them again. Give us a party with Conservative, right wing policies and win our vote. Otherwise, take our punishment and never get into office again.

To put it another way, we're using the only weapon we possess against these arrogant pretenders: our votes.

judith said...

Could we nail the myth that the majority of BNP voters nowadays are discontented Tories?

Have a look at the demographics of the areas where the BNP win - eg Accrington, Barking&Dagenham, those well-known Tory leafy suburbs - NOT.

Newmania said...

I see a place for a Nationalist working class movement and I am disappointed the one we have is so inadequate . A more articulate Party would develop arguments about ethnicity coherence and a communitarian view of the country which, oddly enough, is shared by the majority and even more so by the immigrant groups in it .

I share the BNP`s horror at the effect of torrential immigration and the arrogance with which the political class ignore the people and their ancient loyalties . But they make themselves a poster for the left allowing the scum to throw the holocaust at everyone who wants the country to remain English.


Verity once said ( from memory)

‘I don’t care what colour you are so long as you agree with me.’

When the BNP learn that and truly believe it as I do then they may be a force .


PS Not a day shall pass without Asquith going on about being working class I see …I KNOW I KNOW EVERYONE KNOWS NO-ONE CARES

verity said...

Dave H understands the point, although not 100%. Where we diverge, Dave H, is, you think the consquences of mass immigration and various other anti-British measures were unintentional and I would argue that they were absolutely intended to intimidate and have worked only too well.
The socialists have always intended to destroy pride in nationhood. They used the Islamics as an instrument to pry our formerly familial and cohesive Britain apart, by elevating adherents of an alien and unwanted belief system above the owners of the country, the indigenes.

WW - thank you for your defence. However, I sincerely do not want race on the agenda. I want a cessation of mass immigration and a general clear-out of all the dross that has floated in, and been allowed to stay, illegally. I particularly want a legal clear-out of people who adhere to an alien, hostile and aggressive belief system, and I want the Muslim Council closed down. And, in the case of the European dross, I'd like them out, too. It surely must be illegal ever to have signed away the control of our borders and some group headed up by a clever team of lawyers needs to bring a case all the way up to the House of Lords and have the matter resolved there. In other words, not passed on to some European Napoleonic Court because we, the British people, have never formally agreed to recognise its authority. We never got a say.

Cinammon - d'accord.

Chris Paul said...

Some comments towards the top call this a smear. But there are issues in Manchester and surrounds certainly of Lib Dems NOT doing the right thing and appearing to trade with the fascists.

There are cases where not standing, or not campaigning much are good options for 2nd and 3rd parties. But not standing is rarely the best idea.

I think we have BNP in three Manchester wards this time. There are problematic patterns when it comes to BNP candidature and effort in one ward which is Newton Heath and Miles Platting.

Last time their well known candidate did not campaign and his vote went down by almost the same as the Lib Dem vote went up and the Lib dems almost overtook Labour.

The Lib Dem candidate is an ex-Labour councillor, convict (benefit fraud), and has stood as Indie and as UKIP (until they kicked him out). His support crew includes a man who has stood for the NF.

Meanwhile where the BNP stood the Lib Dems backed off - or so local people felt.

The liberal attitude to the BNP is problematic I think. The Lib Dem group in MCR have refused to sign motions against the BNP over and over and over again. And the old free speech mantra seems to have no discrimination on extremes and illegal utterances.

stuart said...

In response to your 7pm update, Iain, one doesn't know who is standing in a ward until nominations are closed, so one cannot really target those places in which the BNP is standing.

verity said...

Westmorelander writes: "You know, the thing that really fascinates me is the number of posters who say "I used to be Tory, but I'm voting BNP now because...

"Now, either (a) they are BNP trolls (which is likely) or (b) they don't really understand what the BNP are. Perhaps I should explain. The BNP are modelled on the Nazi's, and THEY were a national socialist party."

With your keen-minded, incisive thinking, how did you manage to miss the point of all these posts?

Don't you understand that the British are being chopped up into tiny bite-sized chunks and devoured?

Do you honestly not understand this? The British are being rendered down.

Daily Referendum said...

Westmorlander,

Bullseye.

JuliaM said...

"...a ex Tory voting BNP really , really, misunderstands what the BNP stand for."

I think you are underestimating the extent to which a vote for the BNP is a protest vote, in many ways.

Most people who vote for them (who have cheerfully admitted it to me) haven't bothered to even look at their policies - it's a 'Well, the main parties say don't vote for them, but the main parties aren't listening to me at all so ya boo sucks'.

This has come about because of the constant harping on about the BNP from the two main parties (the Lib Dems don't really count, as no-one really listens to them anyway) while they continue doing nothing about the issues that people are increasingly concerned about - mass immigration being one of them.

The two main parties have been the cause of the recent popularity of the BNP, NOT the BNP themselves, who when they do get councillors elected never seem to do much anyway.

I think this pattern will be repeated again this year. And we will have page after page of 'analysis' that fails to recognise the truth.

glenn hughes said...

Verity: "I just read the experts".

Like Mad Mel Phillips?

simon said...

Well, i suspect we will have 'mock indignation' from the dead parrot brigade about facts which speak for themselves. The Libbies are of the same political ilk as the BNP- a 'protest' vote, and they are both opportunist parties. I suspect in seats where they would fight a BNP member the Libbie candidate would probably have been male, more than likely gay, and more than likely to have a stiffy standing near a crop headed denim wearing clone! That would put em off trying to be erec..electorally effective.

asquith said...

Newmania, when the BNP stop their lying claims to represent "the white working class", I'll stop calling them bullshitters. Until then I'll carry on. Problems like unemployment, housing shortages, poor working conditions, lack of education and what have you are not caused by immigration, it's just a pack of lies from people who want to obscure our real interests and keep us voting for racist t***s.

Do you know that asylum seekers are not permitted to work? They want to make a contribution, but can't. They should be allowed to get jobs instead of living on the pittance they are forced to live on. Your own Sayeeda Warsi shares my view on this matter.

Also, it isn't actually that bad living on a council estate. But I suspect that someone who doesn't know how to handle the rowdy kids will be in for a hard time. Simon Heffer wouldn't thrive here.

Anonymous said...

David Lindsay said...

"The Political Class wants a breakthrough for the BNP."

That may be.

"It would secure First Past The Post for at least a generation. It would be the excuse for all manner of repressive measures aimed mostly at the white working class, and therefore likely to receive little or no media coverage."

They can try that as much as they like. The fact remains that, thanks to the liblabcons, this country is falling to pieces. That process might eventually be halted but it won't be by laws (repressive or otherwise) or anything the liblabcons do. The political classes created a process of destruction. It will destroy them.

Anonymous said...

I can only think the Liberal Democrats don't want statistics building up which would show in how many wards they came in behind the BNP. Psephological statistics are what they are most passionate about, and what they campaign on.

Anonymous said...

Iain's post inspired me to pop over to the bnp site.

Not only does it provide 10 excellent reasons for voting bnp, it also provides independent analysis of the pending disaster of over-population and a report of the latest incident of the main type of race violence i.e. an attack on a white person by non-whites. Well worth a visit.

Thanks, Iain.

verity said...

10:27 - Yes.

Newmania - Yes, I did say that, probably - I don't remember - when challenged. I actually don't care what colour anyone is even if they don't agree with me, although I won't have any sense of community with them.

I like people best who are in my tribe - the Far Right tribe. Categorising people by colour is nuts.

Juliam - Exactly. People who profoundly disagree with David Cameron's soft lefty programmes will be using the BNP as a weapon. "Don't please us? Don't listen to us? OK, watch this. We've just empowered your enemy. Listen to us next time." Juliam says most people who have declared that they're going to vote for the BNP haven't bothered to read their manifesto. I am included in that number. Disenfranchised Tories are sending a message, to use that trite old phrase, to the Tories, which is: LISTEN TO US!

Mad Glenn Hughes - When you can construct a sentence with the clarity of thought and lucidity of expression of Melanie Phillips, do get back to us.

Anon 12:23 - "...the liblabcons ... The political classes created a process of destruction. It will destroy them."

One can only dream.

gene hunt said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
verity said...

Iain -

gene hunt said...
Verity, the Tory party is ignoring you because the world has moved on since your day. Go back to swigging gin, shouting at passers-by, collecting cats and pissing yourself.

April 26, 2008 2:20 PM

This is straightforward abuse.

Anonymous said...

Verity said .....
"if you're able-bodied and don't work, I guess you have chosen to starve to death. So sad."

Anon 10.27 said ...
"Verity, ... Do you work then?"

Verity said...
"10:27 - Yes."


We thought you were an OAP and had emigrated to Mexico because the cost of living is so much lower there.

JuliaM said...

"Problems like unemployment, housing shortages, poor working conditions, lack of education and what have you are not caused by immigration..."

They are certainly not alleviated by mass immigration either, are they...?

"Do you know that asylum seekers are not permitted to work?"

Yes, just like people are not permitted to murder, rape, rob, steal.. Still manage it, don't they?

Besides, you lefty social workers are always bemoaning the pittance given out to asylum seekers and complaining that they can't live on it, but no-one's starving; so how are they supplementing their income, if not the black economy?

"They should be allowed to get jobs instead of living on the pittance they are forced to live on."

No, we should be evicting the welfare classes we already have in this country off their sofas and away from their TVs and into work, before we import yet MORE foreign jobseekers.

"Also, it isn't actually that bad living on a council estate. But I suspect that someone who doesn't know how to handle the rowdy kids will be in for a hard time."

Oh, FFS! Now I've heard it all! 'Rowdy kids' - you mean the junior scum and petty thugs that make life a misery for the hard working people who make up the majority of estates?

I suppose you will be telling us their parents can't rein them in in case it 'stifles their creativity' next...

the men in white coats said...

Truth hurts, eh?

verity said...

3:54 - Allow me to correct your several errors. I have not "emigrated" to Mexico. I am here on a one-year visa,which I applied to have extended by one additional year.

The cost of living is certainly "much lower" here. Grocery shopping is roughly in line with that in the US, meaning it's around half the cost of Britain. Three times weekly garbage pick-up is around £4.50 a month. Petrol's about 45P a litre. All very nice, but it's incidental.

It was Blair that drove me to seek alternate living arrangements. The minute I saw his malign face on TV, I knew he would destroy my country. And I knew I should never have moved back. So I started ordering things to get out again.

It is very silly to make assumptions about someone you don't know.

Chrome Diplomat said...

Verity:
Two points-
1. 'It surely must be illegal ever to have signed away the control of our borders' - The Dicyean rule rule of Parliamentary sovereignty states that Parliament can pass any law it wants to-so it is perfectly legal for it to sign over control of anything it likes to anyone else. What it cannot do it bind itself- the decision to give these powers away can be repealed by a simply majority vote in Parliament, the fact that this hasn't happened does not make the original action illegal.

2. While Gene Hunt was perhaps a little tactless in his word choice, his basic point remains. The reason the Conservative party no longer listens to those of you on the extreme right is that you are part of a dying breed. Yes the BNP et al. may gain your vote as you leave the Tories, but your voting block is dwindling in its importance. I'm afraid that democracy sometimes works like that- sometimes you are in the minority.

(I'm resisting the urge to make a joke about the BNP hating minorities and thus should logically hate themselves...because I don't want to get bogged down in a discussion about whether they do actually hate minorities)

asquith said...

Julia M,

Unemployment is caused by lack of skills, poor education, low self-esteem and the fact that employers don't take some applicants seriously. The unemployed would be able to get jobs if a decent education and training system existed. Then they wouldn't be on benefits, would they?

Employment is not a zero-sum game, which is why the "they're taking our jobs" brigade are utterly wrong.

If asylum seekers are working illegally (and of the many asylum seekers I've encountered, not one has done so) then it just shows how enterprising and productive they are. If they do such work, why not regularise it? They just about survive, but they should be citizens, and could be if the government didn't pander to the Daily Hell.

We've been following an authoritarian, punitive policy and ignoring the causes of crime for 30 years. It doesn't work. Crime rose dramatically on Thatcher's watch. The Tories talk about how "realistic" they are, but their policies don't work and addressing the causes of crime is the only realistic way to proceed.

As long as people like immigrants and the young unemployed feel they can't make a decent living, we'll have to spend a shitload of taxpayers' money arresting them and keeping them in prison.

I don't see what's "lefty" about my statements, since I've always supported a free market economy (which we certainly don't have now, we have a rigged "market" economy).

And with regards to your sneering at my work at the CAB, I'd happily do myself out of a job tomorrow if I could get everyone into employment, but I'm struggling against decades of complete t***s in government. Additionally, I don't recieve any kind of wage, nor am I on benefits (I exist, not very comfortably, on an inheritance, and will be getting a paid job once this money expires).

If any white working-class person is thinking of voting BNP... it isn't the solution. They sure as shite don't care about your problems, they just exploit them for votes and do nothing once they've got council seats.

And if anyone wants to call me a hand-wringing, bleeding-heart liberal. We're doing things your way now. It's failing. The result is crime which has been sky-high ever since the Thatcher years, poverty, unemployment, and the stigmatisation of people who could be leading decent, productive lives. Oh, and did I mention massive government spending to cover up all the failures? Just like Thatcher's enormous welfare bills.

verity said...

Chrome Diplomat - Your first paragraph was informative. Thank you.

Further down, you write: "The reason the Conservative party no longer listens to those of you on the extreme right is that you are part of a dying breed."

Incorrect. There are plenty of traditional gung-ho, right wing young Conservatives. It is not "the party" which is not listening to traditional Conservatives; it is the Cameron clique of arrogant, public school educated drips.

The traditional Tories who believe in self-reliance, sound education, strong family, a tiny public sector, etc. are in the heartlands. Not Notting Hill.

These are the people Cameron and his poncy clieque are ignoring and they will pay for it. Indeed, he doesn't even seem to understand the contempt he and his Notting Hill dinner party clique are held. William Hague knows. David Davis knows. Patrick Mercer knows. But Dave and his pals don't have to listen to anyone because they have all the answers! Be like Tony Blair!! Be the heir to Blair! Force the Opposition benches to give Blair a standing ovation to give the illusion that Dave is applauding his predecessor before he takes over.

Clumping. Lumpen. Smug. Insulting to the Tories.

I'd like to say it is Dave and his clique who are the dying breed, but it wouldn't be so. These disconnected, destructive metropolitan elites are endemic in the West. See Barack Obama and his wife, Mrs Ticked-Off.

They must be fought.

asquith (oh, sorry, david cameron) said...

So when you see a child walking down the road, hoodie up, head down, moody, swaggering, dominating the pavement - think what has brought that child to that moment.If the first thing we have to do is understand what's gone wrong, the second thing is to realise that putting things right is not just about law enforcement.It's about the quality of the work we do with young people.It's about relationships. It's about trust.Above all, it's about emotion and emotional development.Of course we should never excuse teenage crime, or tolerate the police ignoring it.We need tough sanctions, protection and punishment.And if the phrase "social justice" is to be meaningful, it has to be about justice, as well as compassion and kindness. It has to involve a sense of cause and consequence - of just rewards and just deserts.One of the most important things we can teach our children is a sense of justice.Too many young people have no understanding of consequences - of the idea that actions have effects.This is bad enough for us - wider society, who have to suffer the crime and cost of delinquency. But it is truly disastrous for them - the children themselves. Young criminals became older criminals, and they end up with wrecked lives, wrecked relationships, in prison, on drugs - either dead or with such a bad start in life they never really recover.

JuliaM said...

"Unemployment is caused by lack of skills, poor education, low self-esteem and the fact that employers don't take some applicants seriously."

And why don't they...? Because for a few years now, dimwit social workers and dimwit teachers have peddled the 'kids are alright' mantra and totally destroyed any chance to educate and discipline them.

God, if some of the applicants I've seen have been any indication, digging ditches and ringing up the tills in McDonalds is too complicated...

"If asylum seekers are working illegally (and of the many asylum seekers I've encountered, not one has done so) then it just shows how enterprising and productive they are."

Yes. Very enterprising little criminals...

"If they do such work, why not regularise it?"

Because the rest of us don't want to pay to feather-bed a generation of welfare scum, that's why.

"We've been following an authoritarian, punitive policy and ignoring the causes of crime for 30 years."

No we haven't, we've let your kind run amok with the agenda, peddling 'understanding' and 'acceptance' until we finally end up where we are now - and it isn't pretty...

"Additionally, I don't recieve any kind of wage.."

Good! You certainly don't deserve one...

"If any white working-class person is thinking of voting BNP... it isn't the solution."

You obviously have reading comprehension problems - they know that. They don't care. It is a giant 'F**k You' to YOUR kind and the policies you espouse...

"And if anyone wants to call me a hand-wringing, bleeding-heart liberal...."

You are a hand-wringing bleeding heart liberal.

asquith said...

Right, we'll address just one of your assertions. Asylum seekers shouldn't be allowed to have jobs because "the rest of us don't want to pay to feather-bed a generation of welfare scum". But you're the one who thinks they should be on benefits instead of having jobs. Lovely.

And you should meet some of the people who vote BNP, then see what you make of them.

It's very easy to just scream abuse at people, millions do it. It's a lot harder to actually solve the problems society faces. But it seems that Brown etc can't be arsed. So we wait until it all goes wrong, and then spend a fortune trying and failing to clear it all up.

Even Cameron is moving away from attitudes like yours. Perhaps you should emigrate if you hate modern Britain so much.

asquith said...

By the way, with regards to education, anyone who thinks education has gone downhill (perhaps "things were better in their day") should meet a working-class elderly person. Not one of my grandparents is capable of reading a book, they all left school at 14 barely capable of reading and writing.

There have always been illiterates. 40 years ago there were probably more, but no one noticed because they could get unskilled jobs. Now more jobs demand literacy, the illiterates are identified. But there are actually fewer of them than there once were.

Chrome Diplomat said...

Verity:
A good point (with the best will in the world not something I thought I would be saying :-)), but is there not a reason that Cameron is taking the Conservatives away from the right? It would seem from recent polling that in moving towards the middle ground he has boosted the chances of the party forming a government (full disclosure: I am most certainly not a Conservative supporter, and really wish this wasn't happening!).
Admittedly there are other factors (Brown being a train-wreck pour example), but this does not undermine the fact that Cameron is having far more success than his recent predecessors who chose to go after more right wing issues.
I would assume that this is because the traditional right wing strong holds are unlikely to protest against this movement in big enough numbers for the Conservatives to loose heart-land seats. They may loose some, such as yourself, but the gains they make from moving towards the middle ground outweigh the losses they will make.
Forgive me if I'm wrong in this analysis, but this seems to be the trend to me- after all its what Labour did from the other direction under Tony Blair!

dark vengeance said...

So this is where he came to hide
When he ran from you
In a private detective's overcoat
And dirty dead man's shoes
The pretty things of Knightsbridge
Lying for a minister of state
Are a far cry from the nod and wink
Here at traitor's gate

'Cause the high heel he used to be has been ground down
And he listens for the footsteps that would follow him around

To murder my love is a crime
But will you still love
A man out of time?

There's a tuppeny ha'penny millionaire
Looking for a fourpenny one
With a tight grip on the short hairs
Of the public imagination

But for his private wife and kids somehow
Real life becomes a rumour
Days of dutch courage
Just three French letters and a German sense of humour

He's got a mind like a sewer and a heart like a fridge
He stands to be insulted and he pays for the privilege

To murder my love is a crime
But will you still love
A man out of time?

The biggest wheels of industry
Retire sharp and short
And the after dinner overtures
Are nothing but an after thought
Somebody's creeping in the kitchen
There's a reputation to be made
Whose nerves are always on a knife's edge
Who's up late polishing the blade

Love is always scarpering or cowering or fawning
You drink yourself insensitive and hate yourself in the morning

To murder my love is a crime
But will you still love
A man out of time?

JuliaM said...

"Asylum seekers shouldn't be allowed to have jobs because "the rest of us don't want to pay to feather-bed a generation of welfare scum". But you're the one who thinks they should be on benefits instead of having jobs."

Oh, dear, reading comprehension isn't your strong point, is it. The 'generation of welfare scum' I was referring to was the home-grown scum, who see no need to get up off their lazy arses if an poorly paid foreigner will do it for crap wages instead.

"And you should meet some of the people who vote BNP, then see what you make of them."

Once again, you didn't read my comment, did you...? I have - they are salt-of-the-earth, working class people who have (usually) voted Labour or Lib Dem - they are now voting BNP (in some cases, UKIP) as a protest vote, and cheerfully admit to doing so.

"anyone who thinks education has gone downhill (perhaps "things were better in their day") should meet a working-class elderly person. Not one of my grandparents is capable of reading a book.."

Then you live in a totally shit neighbourhood. I can't think of anyone in my immediate circle of that age, family or otherwise, who can't read or write perfectly well and actually run rings around me when it comes to mental arithmatic and geography, to say nothing of history.

In fact, having given the local bowls club (ages 65 - 98!) some Internet-surfing lessons recently, they proved much quicker on the uptake than a lot of school-leavers in our company, which surprised me somewhat.

"Now more jobs demand literacy, the illiterates are identified."

Really...? Not in a world where McDonalds & the like have 'picture-tills' and almost every supermarket has barcode scanners.

Verity said...

Chrome Diplomat - Cameron is espousing lefty politics for the simple reasons that 1) He is a limousine liberal at heart; 2) He is frightened of being jeered at in the Chamber for standing up for Conservative principles. He's weak. He doesn't want to be laughed at and the Labourites are great bullies. 3)He doesn't have a lot of interaction with other people outside his class, except in a patronising way.

You say of Cameron eschewing discussion of real Conservative issues, "I would assume that this is because the traditional right wing strong holds are unlikely to protest against this movement in big enough numbers for the Conservatives to loose heart-land seats." Oh, really? Where do you think all the new votes for the BNP and UKIP are coming from? Suddenly-enlightned socialists?

They are coming from people like me. And as I said either further up, or on another thread, we are giving the finger to Cameron and his ilk. Or, as Juliam writes just above, we are delivering a giant "F--- you!" to both major parties.

Asquith, I don't know what hellhole you spring from, but every single member of my family, including those in their eighties, who went to normal, ordinary schools, not only write grammatically correct letters, but are addicted to reading.

dirty european socialist said...

The BNP leader denied the holocaust. And BNP candidate declared rape was myth.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7326987.stm

Anonymous said...

Verity said...
"He doesn't have a lot of interaction with other people .... except in a patronising way."

We could say the same about you.

Anonymous said...

Verity said ...
"Asquith, I don't know what hellhole you spring from, but every single member of my family, including those in their eighties, who went to normal, ordinary schools, not only write grammatically correct letters ...."

I am the only exception.

Chrome Diplomat said...

Verity:
As I said- the Conservatives are losing a certain proportion of their vote with people, such as yourself, choosing instead to register your distaste for them by voting BNP, but they are unlikely to loose Parliamentary seats because of their move to the left. Rest assured that should they begin to see once Tory strong-holds contested as marginals by the far-right they would quickly re-discover their right-wing principles, but I don't see this happening in the near future.

Newmania said...

Asquith as you think employment is not a single sum game ,( based on what I can see is a profound ignorance of all /any economics ) would you please be in charge of breaking the RMT with scab Polish labour and when you explain to them how they actually haven’t lost a job …can I watch ?

I despise your detestable concern with criminals for whom conditions are now so cushy they break into Prison .How much of their hard earned money do you feel the law abiding people of the country should be donating to those who rape steal murder and steal from them ? We have not tried my way . You are less likely to be caught tried and go to prison in this country when your commit a crime than anywhere in Europe . When you are you watch DVD`s and learn pottery. Before we go down your route of spitting in the face of victims why not try putting them in Prison and making the experience unpleasant .

On immigration . On average members of ethnic minorities commit much more crime than whites .The figures are skewed by the huge working commute from Poland and the EU . Amongst these groups work is higher than among the indigenous which averages is out ..( well if your believe the police which no-one does). Somalians , and various others however are responsible for crimes waves and the Sub continentals are as likely o be in favour of terrorist atrocities against our people as not .

Of the 3,000,000 houses planned by witch Cooper to despoil the countryside of England 2,000,000 will be inhabited by immigrants yet to narrative. We know from Lawson report they make us poorer , we know from experience they make inner city schooling impossible ( hence Labour MP`s avoiding such schools at all costs )


Remind me the of the good thing about this torrent of invading aliens .Only a Labour MP who wants the rest of the country to be as nightmarish a multicultural slum as parts of London has a quick answer.

Their reconquest of the South with Scab Labour and dependent rootless foreigners.

Anonymous said...

JuliaM said...

"The 'generation of welfare scum' I was referring to was the home-grown scum, who see no need to get up off their lazy arses if an poorly paid foreigner will do it for crap wages instead."

This is incorrect. The vast majority of unemployed people want jobs (- "decent jobs" as Cameron put it). In the days before the multi-culti EU socialist paradise they would have had them. No matter how many jobs they now apply for (and most of them are crap jobs with worse wages) employers will still prefer cheap immigrant labour, legal or otherwise.

"Then you live in a totally shit neighbourhood."

He lives in the socialist paradise of Stoke. It's always been a disgrace even by leftoid standards - Dick Crossman used to say that Stoke should just be left to sink into the North Sea (- geography may not have been his strong point). Little 23 year-old asquith should watch Celebrity Big Brother. The most obvious point about Chantelle (the non-celebrity Celebrity winner) was that she was uneducated , ignorant and, in effect, thick. Her parents and grandparents were not - they were educated before the doctrines of asquith came fully in force.

Anonymous said...

Newmania
- "be inhabited by immigrants yet to narrative."

NARRATIVE?

"Remind me the of the good thing about this torrent of invading aliens."

Isn't your wife one of the aliens (or child of)?

Richard Gadsden said...

I suspect that the answer is that the BNP's strongest areas are generally either Labour areas or Labour held Lab/Con marginals; they tend not to do so well when there is a strong Lib Dem party.

verity said...

Newmania, why stop at putting them in prison? I mean, why limit yourself? Demand the right to bear arms. An armed society is a polite society.

[To 10:21, addressing Newmania] The W Indians were invited into Britain by the British government to do specific jobs. They had served loyally in the Armed Services during the War. We are not talking of rootless riffraff. Newmania's wife sounds like a gal after my own heart.

Anonymous said...

Verity said ... "The W Indians were invited into Britain by the British government to do specific jobs. They had served loyally in the Armed Services during the War. We are not talking of rootless riffraff."

Yes, indeed, the Jamaican Yardies are pillars of our society. Like you, they probably intend to vote for the BNP in the next general election.

killemallletgodsortemout said...

Verity!

Marry me!