political commentator * author * publisher * bookseller * radio presenter * blogger * Conservative candidate * former lobbyist * Jack Russell owner * West Ham United fanatic * Email iain AT iaindale DOT com
I have elder relatives who served through a real war, the one this nation was actually fighting for it's freedom for, and even now they will not EVER mention a word about what happened what they went though or what they had to face, frankly this fucking level of media manipulation makes me sick to the pit of my stomach.
Wherever it has come from, and I won't sling any stones, but I'm sure most can guess where and why it has come to this piss poor pass.
How can their stories be judged truthful when the more salacious the details, the more money they will achieve?
Couldn't this also damage the integrity of any enquiries and investigations into the circumstances surrounding their capture and detention?
Isn't there a possibility that this may 'taint' the decision making process of military personnel when faced with a similar dreadful situation where they have to quickly decide surrender?
Yes, Iain, it is mad. Steadily, we are being doomed (dooooomed, I tell you!) by the spin-doctoring of NuLabour. This is Blair's way of doing foreign policy and getting a few more votes for his doomed (dooooomed, I tell you) "project" by getting the tabloids to appeal to us Brits' patriotism. "How very dare they, those Iranians?"
Well we haven't had a Falklands moment for a few years and Iraq is a, well, a bit Shi'ite. So a "good result" like this will make us feel good - won't it?
From a propaganda war point of view, it sort of makes sense. If they are restricted to making 'official' comments, then the Iranian media can easily dismiss it as manipulation. If, however, they are encouraged to sell their stories in all their salacious details, then the global media will do the FCO's job for it, and pay for the privilege.
I agree it's not ideal, but I think the MoD's decision is realistic.
If they weren't allowed to, some at least might simply leave the military and sell their stories anyway, with the usual sales-enhancing rider "the book they tried to ban". The country would lose highly trained personnel, and the ban would have failed.
And with one or two honourable exceptions they will. Captain Nairac will be turning in his grave. Bloody torture these wankers don't know how to spell the word.they will. Bunch of traffic wardens managed by complete wankers.
The "Latest" revelation must vindicate my & similar comments made on your blog last week Iain!
The mod is in total disgrace and these whinging excuses are just a bloody disgrace. The female "sailor" should be discharged and sent home to raise her child in a fit & proper manner. Des Browne {another Scottish} is totally {UNFIT for Purpose}.
This debacle can & does even make the yanks look reasonable!! To coin a phrase, Letwin's, "silence is Golden".
Still. All the time we allow & permit this Banana state type of Government, we only have ourselves to blame.
Shadow defence secretary Liam Fox said: "Many people who shared the anxiety of the hostages' abduction will feel that selling their stories is somewhat undignified and falls below the very high standards we have come to expect from our servicemen and women."
Of course the actions of the MOD are proving to be as reprehensible as those of the hostages themselves.
However, it is an equally sad indictment of the times that representatives of your party, Iain, can't bring themselves to roundly condemn one and all for this, frankly, incredible state of affairs. Maybe there hasn't been enough time to organise the focus groups?
Some of the crew will be making big big bucks out of this. Faye Turney most of all. All the papers will want her story above all others. This could cause some resentment. I wonder how her husband will feel about this. I know we all want more money - but as he is also in the military I wonder what he will think about her selling her story. I think this whole thing stinks. Dirty money never brings happiness.
I hope this isn't true. Otherwise the MoD is going to undermine their own credibility. What about other personnel who've actually suffered in battle? All this does is to hype up the crisis - Blair's fingerprints over this.
Initial re-action? < It made me gasp and stretch my eyes >. Then I scuttled into the darkness and wept with shame! These witless collaborators should be incarcerated, court-martialled by the Royal Navy, and shot! Having these cringing wimps bringing further humiliating disgrace upon the Queen's Uniform is intolerable to those of us who have pride in our country.abxno
Rejoice Rejoice Lollipop Lady cashes in. What a bunch of gutless gormless 'sailors'. They and the so called Admiral should be kicked out of the navy along with their MOD handlers. Disgraceful.
The money should go back to HMG and perhaps be used to buy the odd boot or two. Or maybe some training. Or maybe a suitable memorial to those who have just died ....
What do we expect from this morally backrupt government? And this from an MOD who named Dr David Kelly (remember Blair saying 'no we didn't' on the plane back from Japan) which was despicable. So if a soldier gets wounded in Iraq he or she gets a small compensation payout - but if you get captured by the Iranians you can get a six figure sum...Blair and his revolting cronies wouldn't understand the word integrity if it landed on their heads. Imagine how the rest of our servicemen and women serving round the world must feel about all this - and particularly bereaved familes....
Flavious mate, this is info war between warring ideologies. It may be less glorious than dying in the mud en masse at the Somme or the battle of Kursk but I know which I'd choose (no mud for me!).
There are no words to adequately describe the shame and disgrace, and the consequences of their - (how shall I put this?) - inadequacy may be long-term and severe. Clearly we want to support our soldiers morally, but equally clearly the rest of the world sees them unambiguously as cowards.
There is no cowardice and no shame in vomiting with fear, with sweating and shaking or crying out in pain. Those are natural human reactions, and truly, I wouldn't even cast the first stone at somebody who simply "ran away" as fast as his little legs, or motorboat, would carry him. But to behave before one's captors, as the representatives of one's country, with such ingratiating subservience, to not only sign a confession but play it out for TV with a map, and then shake the hand of an enemy of the West and of everything we represent... oh, the disgrace, the disgrace.
And now they sell their stories for money, as if they had nothing to be ashamed of, and the MOD encourages them! I could understand it if it was a way of quietly booting them out of the navy (maybe it is). With servicemen like this we are lost.
Any other military personnel who get involved in an "incident" in the future will demand the right to sell their story. Nobody will want to suffer for "free" any more. It's a very bad precedent.
No Iain. The world hasn't gone mad; but this country and the Western 'Values' we so sanctimoniously insist on forcing down others throats, most certainly have.
Once - it seems like a lifetime ago - I was proud to be British. These days I am ashamed, and I mean ASHAMED. This latest fiasco is just another sickening symptom of a disease which is slowly but surely killing this country.
To those who would call others cowards without being in their shoes I ask: What would you do? spend seven years in the prison of a violent and corrupt nation, or make a false confession that the world will know was made under duress. These people have spent the majority of their adult lives away from their families in service of their country. Please before you call the Navy a bunch of cowards and wankers seriously consider what you would do in their situation. Some on here seriously need to stop reading war comics. Do you think that Iran would have let them go without a confession? or do you think they would have increased the abuse and kept them captive until they did confess? Lets get something straight: we are not at war with Iran, the 15 did not give away state secrets, they merely took part in a charade initiated by a corrupt government so that they could return home to their families. Imagine the choice: you put on a suit, you shake my hand and smile or it's back to the wall and the sound of rifles cocking. What would you do?
The war on terror is not a game or a media stunt; fundamentalist terrorism threatens us all. Iran is quite capable of sponsoring terrorist attacks in the UK via its proxies. That's one of the reasons why this incident matters.
Now that UK sailors have appeared to be such easy, satisfying prey, we can expect more kidnappings, and God spare us from more craven apologies. Image matters in this terrible war, and we have given an impression of weakness - Iran and Al Qaeda will not hesitate to capitalise on this.
Anonymous, if you're too complacent to make a judgement even on this, if you don't, in other words, think it matters... Look, if this is acceptable, what counts as cowardice, and how could we praise or value bravery, and how could we ever hope to defeat an enemy who do risk their lives and profess their beliefs?
And Daily Referendum, that is a typical relativist's question - how can any of us condemn without walking a mile with their backpack, etc. I'm afraid things are more serious than that, and the war at a more critical juncture.
Unless we have high - even impossible - ideals, unless we aim high, we will achieve nothing, and have no words to praise real fortitude.
And another thing: we are not at war with Iran, but we are at war with Islamic fundamentalist terrorism. Many of its sponsors and originators take their inspiration from, and occupy senior positions in, the Islamic Republic.
when will people realise that we are being run by the most disgusting, self serving and criminal politiciasns. They asre solely responsible for the collapse of respect, decency and common sense in society.
I cannot articulate the depth of disgust with which I hold this bunch of liars.
As if any other group of politicians in living memeory would allow us to end up in the situation we are in now?
I have nothing but admiration for our armed services but I honestly feel they should simply up sticks, head home and instigate a regime change in this country.
God forbid I should ever come across any of this spineless group of wankers who think they run this country, of course i wouldnt actually harm them because i have respect for the rule of law and my fellow citizens, but they would stretch that to the limit.
If Bliar doesnt end up in jail then there is no justice in the world.
am i the only person who is sickened by this government?
Anonymous@12:31PM said: "Unless we have high - even impossible - ideals, unless we aim high, we will achieve nothing, and have no words to praise real fortitude."
Can you tell us exactly how low a price our service people should put on their lives to protect your ideals?
no longer anonymous said:
"Plenty of people have been in their situation and HAVENT' capitulated so easily."
Have you?
Some on here have called the bravest people our country has produced recently cowards. Those 15 are amongst the few who are willing to go to a conflict zone and serve their country. The Royal Marines regard themselves as the best commandos in the world, to call them cowards is to take everything they believe in from them. Please do not use the word coward lightly because it is a word that will be covered in their blood, when they try to prove that they are not.
" What a vomit inducing bunch of game show contestants. Sorry must dash as I have my 3rd patrol in my open air Land Rover. Hope Mrs Blair still has her armoured Omega for shopping trips in down town Knightsbridge. "
It would seem to me that even if, placed in this same position, myself and other 'armchair generals' collaborated with our captives in the exact same craven manner as the 15 sailors and marines we would still, having in this hypothetical scenario joined the armed forces, be expected to adhere to certain absolute standards of behaviour. If, taking this scenario further, we fell short of those standards and started blubbing like a child caught with his hand in the cookey jar we would richly deserve the contempt and scorn of our collegues and society as a whole and ought to be liable to court martial on our eventual return.
However such is the media circus surrounding this affair that instead of being punished this wretched shower are going to be significantly better compensated for their incompetence and lack of moral fibre than the real soldiers fighting on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan who have incapacitating war wounds and received paltry sums in comparison.
The moral should be that human weakness or frailty should be no excuse for falling short of the standards of behaviour, even under duress, that can and must be expected.
I'm awarding you the MCC (mouse clickers cross) for bravery in front of a keyboard. Why don't you go down to the careers office on Tuesday and Join up. You could show the rest of your soon to be comrades how to defeat the enemy with the click of a mouse button.
How very brave you are. With people like you sat at a keyboard why should Britain tremble?
Nulab utter scum April 08, 2007 12:44 PM am I the only person who is sickened by this government?
No you are not. I live abroad and you will not be surprised to hear that our once great country is now held in very little regard in so many ways. I hate myself for saying it but sometimes I feel ashamed to say that I am an Englishman. Blair and his NL have struck a death blow to my country and I fear that we may never recover.
Hmm, wonder what the Iranian leadership is saying to the populace about this. If I find it mildly degrading to be fellowcountrymen to these immoral and inept people, just think what I would be feeling as a devout Moslem?
Yes Iain it has gone mad. Disgraceful conduct which has shamed the Nation. But it is interesting to hear Colonel Bob Stewart's views. This from a man who was happy for his wife to look after the wives of his soldiers back in Germany whilst he shagged the arse off his Bosnian interpreter. Honour? Bob Stewart lost all that and is the perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black. Another tosser from a long line of Military Tossers.
My Son and his soldiers in Basra are continuing to do their job in honour of the many brave men and women who have done their duty for Quenn and Country. They do so irrespective of the lies that sent them there in the first place and safe in the knowledge that, if they should put a foot wrong in the most difficult circumstances imagineable, they will be held accountable and Court Martialed. To see the RN and RM personnel being rewarded for giving in makes them puke. May Mrs Rose Gentle and all of the other grieving Parents be spared this monstrous media circus. I hope, as do all of my Sons soldiers, that the returned personnel and their Parents can look in the can look in the mirror tonight. God Bless and keep safe our Brave Fighting Men and Women and Damm those who profit from the unbearable agony of those who grieve.
Let natural justice take its course. Any of those former captives naive enough to sell their souls to Max Clifford & Co will have a very short and unhappy career in the armed forces. Best they put in their resignations sooner rather than later.
At least one of them seems to have the brains to have worked this out: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6537217.stm
" I hope the whole house will join me in sending our condolences to all of those Army personnel killed this week in Iraq who will now be unable to sell their stories of how their inadequately armoured and poorly equipped Warriors were blown apart. If only they had joined the Navy they would be at home, on leave and looking forward to a very nice cheque in the post instead of being just a name on a Memorial to my Vanity."
It's the selling of the stories by those still in uniform that is so despicable. Couple that with the MOD saying there won't be a proper inquiry into the affair, al-Beeb shelving the "VC" story and it all shows the depth to which we have sunk. One poster's name here sums it up, hint his initials are "nlus" (1244pm)
But the real point of it is that, by selling these stories, these unfortunate service men and woman hand yet another propaganda victory to the Iranians. For who can now believe their stories? If they are being paid to tell what happened to them, is there any reason to take this version more seriously than the version the Iranians got out of them? On the one hand, bribed with the hope of a quick release. On the other, bribed with £100,000... I am glad they are home, and I don't wish to condemn them for acting as they did - we can't know what it was like to be first approached, and then captured and held by some Persian rabble. But I do think they should (a) not be permitted to talk and (b) themselves have the good sense not to do so.
53 comments:
I have elder relatives who served through a real war, the one this nation was actually fighting for it's freedom for, and even now they will not EVER mention a word about what happened what they went though or what they had to face, frankly this fucking level of media manipulation makes me sick to the pit of my stomach.
Wherever it has come from, and I won't sling any stones, but I'm sure most can guess where and why it has come to this piss poor pass.
Sell your stories or sell the stories you have been briefed to sell.
The RN capbadge,the Anchor should be modified with the letter W placed firmly on top.
The Senior Service? Your havin a laugh.
A ridiculous decision.
How can their stories be judged truthful when the more salacious the details, the more money they will achieve?
Couldn't this also damage the integrity of any enquiries and investigations into the circumstances surrounding their capture and detention?
Isn't there a possibility that this may 'taint' the decision making process of military personnel when faced with a similar dreadful situation where they have to quickly decide surrender?
Yes, Iain, it is mad. Steadily, we are being doomed (dooooomed, I tell you!) by the spin-doctoring of NuLabour. This is Blair's way of doing foreign policy and getting a few more votes for his doomed (dooooomed, I tell you) "project" by getting the tabloids to appeal to us Brits' patriotism. "How very dare they, those Iranians?"
Well we haven't had a Falklands moment for a few years and Iraq is a, well, a bit Shi'ite. So a "good result" like this will make us feel good - won't it?
From a propaganda war point of view, it sort of makes sense. If they are restricted to making 'official' comments, then the Iranian media can easily dismiss it as manipulation. If, however, they are encouraged to sell their stories in all their salacious details, then the global media will do the FCO's job for it, and pay for the privilege.
'They stopped me watching East Enders'.
'The food wasn't what I was used to.'
'I was terribly, terribly afraid they might, you know, do something.'
etc etc ad nauseam. I'm so looking forward to reading all this rubbish.
You want to protest? Just boycott any newspaper that prints it.
With the Blair government desperate to claw back some of the lost propaganda edge from Iran you can see how this came about...
It's not media manipulation, it's capitulation. There is no market for discretion anymore.
I agree it's not ideal, but I think the MoD's decision is realistic.
If they weren't allowed to, some at least might simply leave the military and sell their stories anyway, with the usual sales-enhancing rider "the book they tried to ban". The country would lose highly trained personnel, and the ban would have failed.
Politicians sell their stories, generals sell their stories, whats the difference, good luck to 'em.
And with one or two honourable exceptions they will. Captain Nairac will be turning in his grave. Bloody torture these wankers don't know how to spell the word.they will. Bunch of traffic wardens managed by complete wankers.
The "Latest" revelation must vindicate my & similar comments made on your blog last week Iain!
The mod is in total disgrace and these whinging excuses are just a bloody disgrace. The female "sailor" should be discharged and sent home to raise her child in a fit & proper manner. Des Browne {another Scottish} is totally {UNFIT for Purpose}.
This debacle can & does even make the yanks look reasonable!!
To coin a phrase, Letwin's, "silence is Golden".
Still. All the time we allow & permit this Banana state type of Government, we only have ourselves to blame.
From the BBC piece:
Shadow defence secretary Liam Fox said: "Many people who shared the anxiety of the hostages' abduction will feel that selling their stories is somewhat undignified and falls below the very high standards we have come to expect from our servicemen and women."
Of course the actions of the MOD are proving to be as reprehensible as those of the hostages themselves.
However, it is an equally sad indictment of the times that representatives of your party, Iain, can't bring themselves to roundly condemn one and all for this, frankly, incredible state of affairs. Maybe there hasn't been enough time to organise the focus groups?
Yes
Some of the crew will be making big big bucks out of this. Faye Turney most of all. All the papers will want her story above all others. This could cause some resentment. I wonder how her husband will feel about this. I know we all want more money - but as he is also in the military I wonder what he will think about her selling her story. I think this whole thing stinks. Dirty money never brings happiness.
I hope this isn't true. Otherwise the MoD is going to undermine their own credibility. What about other personnel who've actually suffered in battle? All this does is to hype up the crisis - Blair's fingerprints over this.
Initial re-action? < It made me gasp and stretch my eyes >. Then I scuttled into the darkness and wept with shame! These witless collaborators should be incarcerated, court-martialled by the Royal Navy, and shot! Having these cringing wimps bringing further humiliating disgrace upon the Queen's Uniform is intolerable to those of us who have pride in our country.abxno
This came from No10 and will keep the medias eyes off the Government for a few days. Watch out for the bad news 'mass grave'.
Rejoice Rejoice Lollipop Lady cashes in. What a bunch of gutless gormless 'sailors'. They and the so called Admiral should be kicked out of the navy along with their MOD handlers. Disgraceful.
The money should go back to HMG and perhaps be used to buy the odd boot or two. Or maybe some training. Or maybe a suitable memorial to those who have just died ....
Despicable. Utterly contemptible. This can only harm the reputation of the forces. As Whitehall cynically knows.
If the crew has any honour they should give the money to the Royal British Legion.
What do we expect from this morally backrupt government? And this from an MOD who named Dr David Kelly (remember Blair saying 'no we didn't' on the plane back from Japan) which was despicable. So if a soldier gets wounded in Iraq he or she gets a small compensation payout - but if you get captured by the Iranians you can get a six figure sum...Blair and his revolting cronies wouldn't understand the word integrity if it landed on their heads. Imagine how the rest of our servicemen and women serving round the world must feel about all this - and particularly bereaved familes....
Classic! Gossip blogger finds newspaper gossip objectionable.
Flavious mate, this is info war between warring ideologies. It may be less glorious than dying in the mud en masse at the Somme or the battle of Kursk but I know which I'd choose (no mud for me!).
(And I'm an uber hawk ffs!)
There are no words to adequately describe the shame and disgrace, and the consequences of their - (how shall I put this?) - inadequacy may be long-term and severe. Clearly we want to support our soldiers morally, but equally clearly the rest of the world sees them unambiguously as cowards.
There is no cowardice and no shame in vomiting with fear, with sweating and shaking or crying out in pain. Those are natural human reactions, and truly, I wouldn't even cast the first stone at somebody who simply "ran away" as fast as his little legs, or motorboat, would carry him. But to behave before one's captors, as the representatives of one's country, with such ingratiating subservience, to not only sign a confession but play it out for TV with a map, and then shake the hand of an enemy of the West and of everything we represent... oh, the disgrace, the disgrace.
And now they sell their stories for money, as if they had nothing to be ashamed of, and the MOD encourages them! I could understand it if it was a way of quietly booting them out of the navy (maybe it is). With servicemen like this we are lost.
Tom Watts
miqvarxar"at"yahoo.co.uk
Anonymous said... "But to behave before one's captors, as the representatives of one's country, with such ingratiating subservience,"
Oh please! It's so easy for us to condemn as we sit on our arses watching it all on the tv.
What can be worse than the armchair warriors.
Any other military personnel who get involved in an "incident" in the future will demand the right to sell their story. Nobody will want to suffer for "free" any more. It's a very bad precedent.
No Iain. The world hasn't gone mad; but this country and the Western 'Values' we so sanctimoniously insist on forcing down others throats, most certainly have.
Once - it seems like a lifetime ago - I was proud to be British. These days I am ashamed, and I mean ASHAMED. This latest fiasco is just another sickening symptom of a disease which is slowly but surely killing this country.
To those who would call others cowards without being in their shoes I ask: What would you do? spend seven years in the prison of a violent and corrupt nation, or make a false confession that the world will know was made under duress. These people have spent the majority of their adult lives away from their families in service of their country. Please before you call the Navy a bunch of cowards and wankers seriously consider what you would do in their situation. Some on here seriously need to stop reading war comics. Do you think that Iran would have let them go without a confession? or do you think they would have increased the abuse and kept them captive until they did confess? Lets get something straight: we are not at war with Iran, the 15 did not give away state secrets, they merely took part in a charade initiated by a corrupt government so that they could return home to their families. Imagine the choice: you put on a suit, you shake my hand and smile or it's back to the wall and the sound of rifles cocking. What would you do?
The war on terror is not a game or a media stunt; fundamentalist terrorism threatens us all. Iran is quite capable of sponsoring terrorist attacks in the UK via its proxies. That's one of the reasons why this incident matters.
Now that UK sailors have appeared to be such easy, satisfying prey, we can expect more kidnappings, and God spare us from more craven apologies. Image matters in this terrible war, and we have given an impression of weakness - Iran and Al Qaeda will not hesitate to capitalise on this.
Anonymous, if you're too complacent to make a judgement even on this, if you don't, in other words, think it matters... Look, if this is acceptable, what counts as cowardice, and how could we praise or value bravery, and how could we ever hope to defeat an enemy who do risk their lives and profess their beliefs?
Tom.
And Daily Referendum, that is a typical relativist's question - how can any of us condemn without walking a mile with their backpack, etc. I'm afraid things are more serious than that, and the war at a more critical juncture.
Unless we have high - even impossible - ideals, unless we aim high, we will achieve nothing, and have no words to praise real fortitude.
Tom.
And another thing: we are not at war with Iran, but we are at war with Islamic fundamentalist terrorism. Many of its sponsors and originators take their inspiration from, and occupy senior positions in, the Islamic Republic.
when will people realise that we are being run by the most disgusting, self serving and criminal politiciasns. They asre solely responsible for the collapse of respect, decency and common sense in society.
I cannot articulate the depth of disgust with which I hold this bunch of liars.
As if any other group of politicians in living memeory would allow us to end up in the situation we are in now?
I have nothing but admiration for our armed services but I honestly feel they should simply up sticks, head home and instigate a regime change in this country.
God forbid I should ever come across any of this spineless group of wankers who think they run this country, of course i wouldnt actually harm them because i have respect for the rule of law and my fellow citizens, but they would stretch that to the limit.
If Bliar doesnt end up in jail then there is no justice in the world.
am i the only person who is sickened by this government?
"Oh please! It's so easy for us to condemn as we sit on our arses watching it all on the tv."
Plenty of people have been in their situation and HAVENT' capitulated so easily.
Furthermore, the fact that most of us are sat at home doesn't mean we can't expect high standards of our armed forces.
Where is Hatfield Girl Today???
Her silence is truly thunderous!!
Disgraceful conduct by the Navy 15
1. Join the Navy ( NOTE THE DROPPING OF ROYAL )
2. Surrender and bring shame upon the Nation
3. Sell your story
4. Ensure the poor treatment of Military personnel who may be detained in the future.
What a total bunch of wankers. My heart bleeds for the faamilies and loved ones of those who have lost their lives.
it is part of winning the propaganda war. never has it been more clear that it is just their version of the 'truth'.
Anonymous@12:31PM said:
"Unless we have high - even impossible - ideals, unless we aim high, we will achieve nothing, and have no words to praise real fortitude."
Can you tell us exactly how low a price our service people should put on their lives to protect your ideals?
no longer anonymous said:
"Plenty of people have been in their situation and HAVENT' capitulated so easily."
Have you?
Some on here have called the bravest people our country has produced recently cowards. Those 15 are amongst the few who are willing to go to a conflict zone and serve their country. The Royal Marines regard themselves as the best commandos in the world, to call them cowards is to take everything they believe in from them. Please do not use the word coward lightly because it is a word that will be covered in their blood, when they try to prove that they are not.
From my son in Basra.
" What a vomit inducing bunch of game show contestants. Sorry must dash as I have my 3rd patrol in my open air Land Rover. Hope Mrs Blair still has her armoured Omega for shopping trips in down town Knightsbridge. "
It would seem to me that even if, placed in this same position, myself and other 'armchair generals' collaborated with our captives in the exact same craven manner as the 15 sailors and marines we would still, having in this hypothetical scenario joined the armed forces, be expected to adhere to certain absolute standards of behaviour. If, taking this scenario further, we fell short of those standards and started blubbing like a child caught with his hand in the cookey jar we would richly deserve the contempt and scorn of our collegues and society as a whole and ought to be liable to court martial on our eventual return.
However such is the media circus surrounding this affair that instead of being punished this wretched shower are going to be significantly better compensated for their incompetence and lack of moral fibre than the real soldiers fighting on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan who have incapacitating war wounds and received paltry sums in comparison.
The moral should be that human weakness or frailty should be no excuse for falling short of the standards of behaviour, even under duress, that can and must be expected.
Ozzy (MCC),
I'm awarding you the MCC (mouse clickers cross) for bravery in front of a keyboard. Why don't you go down to the careers office on Tuesday and Join up. You could show the rest of your soon to be comrades how to defeat the enemy with the click of a mouse button.
How very brave you are. With people like you sat at a keyboard why should Britain tremble?
Nulab utter scum
April 08, 2007 12:44 PM
am I the only person who is sickened by this government?
No you are not. I live abroad and you will not be surprised to hear that our once great country is now held in very little regard in so many ways. I hate myself for saying it but sometimes I feel ashamed to say that I am an Englishman. Blair and his NL have struck a death blow to my country and I fear that we may never recover.
Hmm, wonder what the Iranian leadership is saying to the populace about this. If I find it mildly degrading to be fellowcountrymen to these immoral and inept people, just think what I would be feeling as a devout Moslem?
Anon at 1.30pm - you and your son have said everything that needs to be said on this subject.
I hope you will pass our good wishes to your son in Basra and please God he comes home safely.
Yes Iain it has gone mad. Disgraceful conduct which has shamed the Nation. But it is interesting to hear Colonel Bob Stewart's views. This from a man who was happy for his wife to look after the wives of his soldiers back in Germany whilst he shagged the arse off his Bosnian interpreter. Honour? Bob Stewart lost all that and is the perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black. Another tosser from a long line of Military Tossers.
Jafo at 5.56
Thank you. Consider it done.
My Son and his soldiers in Basra are continuing to do their job in honour of the many brave men and women who have done their duty for Quenn and Country. They do so irrespective of the lies that sent them there in the first place and safe in the knowledge that, if they should put a foot wrong in the most difficult circumstances imagineable, they will be held accountable and Court Martialed. To see the RN and RM personnel being rewarded for giving in makes them puke. May Mrs Rose Gentle and all of the other grieving Parents be spared this monstrous media circus. I hope, as do all of my Sons soldiers, that the returned personnel and their Parents can look in the can look in the mirror tonight. God Bless and keep safe our Brave Fighting Men and Women and Damm those who profit from the unbearable agony of those who grieve.
New Cereal from Kellogs
NAVMAR
A delicious blend of fibre with all the moral taken out....
Let natural justice take its course. Any of those former captives naive enough to sell their souls to Max Clifford & Co will have a very short and unhappy career in the armed forces. Best they put in their resignations sooner rather than later.
At least one of them seems to have the brains to have worked this out:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6537217.stm
Prime Ministers Question Time
Prime Minister.....
" I hope the whole house will join me in sending our condolences to all of those Army personnel killed this week in Iraq who will now be unable to sell their stories of how their inadequately armoured and poorly equipped Warriors were blown apart. If only they had joined the Navy they would be at home, on leave and looking forward to a very nice cheque in the post instead of being just a name on a Memorial to my Vanity."
Perhaps Mr Dale, would like to condemn Lord Lamont who is an apologist for the Iranian regime.
It's the selling of the stories by those still in uniform that is so despicable. Couple that with the MOD saying there won't be a proper inquiry into the affair, al-Beeb shelving the "VC" story and it all shows the depth to which we have sunk.
One poster's name here sums it up, hint his initials are "nlus" (1244pm)
But the real point of it is that, by selling these stories, these unfortunate service men and woman hand yet another propaganda victory to the Iranians. For who can now believe their stories? If they are being paid to tell what happened to them, is there any reason to take this version more seriously than the version the Iranians got out of them? On the one hand, bribed with the hope of a quick release. On the other, bribed with £100,000...
I am glad they are home, and I don't wish to condemn them for acting as they did - we can't know what it was like to be first approached, and then captured and held by some Persian rabble. But I do think they should (a) not be permitted to talk and (b) themselves have the good sense not to do so.
warning
This is a very important message about an Islamic terroristic grand Attack.
کیر بزمجه عربستان و مصر تو کس ننه هرکی سیده.
سنده ملت جهان تو کس ننه حافظان شریعت اسلام
کیر خوک تو کس ننه فاحشه => پاسدار یا بسیجی یا اطلاعاتی یا جاسوس اسلام یا سید یا حزب اللهی
گوه خوک تو ننه امام حسین شد امام حسن
سنده شیطان تو حلق محمد رسول الله قرآن شد.
خرطوم فیل تو کس ننه پیامبر اسلام.
الله اکبر
خامنه ای عنتر
مرگ بر دوست ولایت فقیه
درود بر آمریکا
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