I was asked to appear on BBC1's The Big Question this morning, but I reckoned a lie in was a better bet than a drive up the M1 to Leicester. It appears I missed a big story. Louise Bagshawe appeared on the programme, which was considering the question: Do politicians deserve to be called honourable? She takes up the story...It was the warm-up question, which was not broadcast live, which shocked me. We were asked Is Prince Harry a hero?' I advised Nicky Campbell, pre-show, not to ask this, as I thought there would be no debate on the matter. How wrong I was. 'Is it just propaganda?' the host asked. To my amazement, the LibDem MP said 'It's not just propaganda'. When he came back to her, she expanded that we were all human beings; that Harry went partly to do a job, but that he also went to rehabilitate his public image, and 'it worked' because we now all saw him differently.I confess I was dumbfounded at this. However, she was not alone; there were elements in that audience asserting that Harry had never even been on the frontline at all (rather like those American "moon landings", he inferred, it was all staged for the camera). Others criticised the Prince for warmongering.
I rather admire Ms. Teather for various things, including her robust defence of casework on the show and her work to free her constituent from Gitmo. Nonetheless, the LibDems have got to stop being so cynical and embrace bravery and selflessness where it is found, including in the Royal Family.
What an unbelievably crass thing for Sarah Teather to say. I've always thought she was a bit lacking upstairs. Sad to have it confirmed in this way.
39 comments:
and she has an unusually shaped head...
Cor, you've got it in the the Lib Dems today, Iain. Mind you, so have I, quite a lot of the time*! So carry on!
*Although, er, of course I don't reflect this in my work.
It was not crass at all. Teather was making some valid points and her comments are spot on. It was Harry's PR stunt and nothing to do with the Army etc. Just look at the films over the weekend. It is amazing how the political class shuts up shop when it comes to the Royal family.
The other point that she should have made is that the Royal family knows how to deal with criticism and has a PR machine that out does any political party.
Three cheers for her speaking her mind. And by the way she won a bye election in very difficult circumstances.
not a good day to be a lib dem, thats 3 posts in a row they get a bashing!
She's not wrong, is she? Harry is brave, if not a hero but his pubic image had been badly tarnished and the story is clearly being used by the Palace to rehabilitate him. That's not such a terrible thing, probably, but neither is it terrible to point it out as Teather did. Obviously the people who think it was all faked up are nutters, but that's another story.
I believe that a constituent means someone who is a British citizen or at least a voter. The Guantanamo case(s?) she has spent so much time on is/are neither.
the programme, which was considering the question: Do politicians deserve to be called honourable?
There can only be one answer to that. Which is probably why it was not broadcast.
Iain, First things first. Please explain how the man from Cuba was a constituent? That was sheer opportunism by the little woman.
Secondly I note the armchair hero's are at it.
No doubt they have seen action on the frontline and can write from experience. I am proud of my son, who is in the army ,and has served oit there. I would love these wimpering anti royalists to meet up with some real men!
How many politician's sons or daughter's are in the armed services? Expecially cabinet ministers?(and former Prime Ministers!)
Lastly Nicky Campbell's programme is similar to the old Kilroy programme. He always had his'participants' loaded against whoever or whatever they were discussing. Nothing changes.
Perhaps Teather wanted to be the other woman leader of the Lib dems????
Surely the question should be this: was it sensible to send the Prince to Afghanistan (with all the additional resources at the front line that would have entailed, plus the media hush-up resources applied back home) when it could be seen as inflammatory by some and pointless by others, particularly when other soldiers are dying elsewhere for lack of adequate kit. Add to this the fact that the risk to him as a terrorist target back home is now many times what it was, so we shall all be paying for extra protection out of our taxes.
Surely the resources could have been better spent? I certainly don't believe that it was a good thing to send him and I'm disappointed that large chunks of the media and politic classes seem so happy to go along with the MoD/Palace line without question.
I was unaware Harry`image was tarnished , not in my eyes , and everyone here has failed utterly to understand the private and public roles of a Prince .As a Prince he represents the army to the nation. He is both an ordinary soldier and a living sacrement. How apt his name is.
On both counts his work is exemplary and this smarty pants twit has betrayed what we all know. Lib Dems think they are cleverer than the people and despise their loyalties. That is why , for them betrayal is so easy.
I think Sarah Teather's comment says more about herself than about Cornet Wales.
It is clear to anyone with even a passing interest that Harry has taken to military life as if born to it, he has pressed repeatedly to get out into operational theatres (as a young officer, he only has so much time to get frontline service experience before promotion) and his courage and integrity cannot be doubted. Agreed, he has played the fool on occasion with his drinking antics, but didn't Teather's former party leader have an embarrasing "problem" they all colluded in covering up?
Politicians are in no position to question the integrity of anyone else, particularly those serving in the Armed Forces. I'd like to present Teather with a rifle, set of body armour and a travel order for Afghanistan and see how keen she would be to go!
Come on, Iain, resorting to personal insults?
I thought it was strange how Harry said he didn't like England. I'm sure his grandmother must be thinking about that comment.
If you want to talk about intelligence levels then perhaps start with Harry.
Louise Bagshawe seems to be very naive: who is she? We have MaX Clifford's opinion that this has been a wonderful publicity stunt for the Army; it has also worked well for the Prince, and there is nothing cynical about saying so. He himself has said, quite correctly, that he is not a 'hero' and that should be the last word on the matter.
It seems to come as a constant surprise to you, Iain, that other people don't see the world as you do. Sarah Teather is highly intelligent: 'she read Natural Sciences at St John’s College, Cambridge. She worked in science policy both in the public and private sectors, first at the Royal Society advising the UK government on controversial aspects of science, and later at a science policy consultancy, evaluating public policies on science and innovation for governments across Europe.'
It is not surprising to me that she has a more penetrating understanding of what is going on than some . .
Simonh: I suggest young H has in fact polished up his 'pubic image'!
I'm sorry, but lib dems are lib dems for a reason.
They are barking.
I suppose Sarah Teather believes that our politicians are a better advertisement for Britain than the Royals!
My blood is absolutely boiling at this! I always thought this woman was an idiot - I get a grim pleasure of watching her flail about on Question Time - but this episode has removed any doubt.
Harry has done this country proud. From what I've heard on the net he was definately out there, mucking in. I can't see why the MOD would send him out there as an ornament, it'd be a waste of resources.
Prince Harry has done his duty and acted honourably - Sarah Teather and the shower in Leicester wouldn't know decency and honour if it kicked them in the unmnetionables!
I think Teather should slink off into the sunset, and await the day when she can actually prove some use - as an organ donor.
I think its ridiculous to state that this was a PR stunt. Prince Harry was on the frontline, getting shot at, and giving all hell back, to the taliban in afghanistan. He would have been at risk anywhere in afghanistan in he was carrying out patrols etc due to the threat of IEDs. Sending Prince Harry to afghanistan was the right thing to do, after all, surely SOMEONE should support our lads and lasses in the forces, because they don't tend to get a looking, or are understood at all.
I saw the programme on Sky TV this afternoon showing pictures of Prince Harry doing his stuff against the Taliban scumbags.
I felt a certain pride in him, not only because I am father to a serving officer in the armed forces, but because I immediately recognised him as one of us.
He is a decent, properly brought up young man whom any military father would recognise as one of his own.
At a time when so many other people in public life, from clerics to politicians, are letting us down so badly it is good to see him setting an example of the way things ought to be.
You can only do so much with spin and PR. I think Harry is the real thing.
Iain, I like your blog- but when it turns into LD Watch it gets a bit dull.
I rather admire Ms. Teather for various things, including her robust defence of casework on the show and her work to free her constituent from Gitmo.
I'll comment on this aspect too. So far as I am concerned, anybody who winds up in Club Gitmo has nobody to blame but himself.
If they are so called British Citizens they lost their citizenship the moment they went to Afghanistan. They wore no uniform, they formed no part of any recognised army, they are emphatically not entitled to any protection from the Genever Convention which was formulated to establish the rights of soldiers in uniform.
Frankly, if they are, or claim to be, British I think they should be hanged as traitors. And serve 'em right.
Sarah Teather - everyone has the right to be ugly, but she abuses the privilege.
I refuse to believe that Sarah Teather actually exists.
Bravery is a aord that is used very Liberally and when you mention Prince Harry and Bravery inthe same sentence that is a stretch.
Surrounded by the worlds best fighters the Ghurkas I would be prepared to go anywhere.
Tell you what brvaery is Iain Bravery is my long deceased Father.
My Dad died when I was 16 so I never got to know him.
He went to a teritorial army weekend camp in Edinburgh but never came back for five years.
Four of those years he spent in South East Asia almost all the time in the Burmese Jungle fighting the Japanese frequently at close quarters.
When he came back to Edinburgh he was not given a press conference in fact he was supposed to find a job and get on with it.
Bravery and Prince Harry you demean the English language Iain and I gaurantee you within the next two months he will be seen on the piss again and the sun title will be Fallen Hero or something similar.
Mark my words you will be able to look this posting up when it comes up.
I've been having a read at this forum for armed service personnel. Interesting to read what's going on from the POV of people who know what they're talking about (soldiers on the front line) rather than opportunistic twits who don't (Teather, Jon Snow, Max Clifford etc)
And you served when and where? Any one who puts on that uniform and goes away from home to fight a war, be he royal or not is brave. They are all hero's and should all be treated like one. People who have never served have no right in questioning how brave a soldier is. Cos' he is a lot braver than you. We have this image of what a hero is, wearing his pants on the out-side, a hero is someone willing to die for his country. If it wasn't for some paper that let this story out, he would still be out there.
Sorry how is her comment crass. It appears perfectly reasonable. Why this deference to a hereditary elite? So Harry went to Afghanistan. So what? We've deployed a great number of troops in Afghanistan and I don't hear unthinking kneejerk responses to call every single one a hero.
There are a lot of families of soldiers serving on the frontline in Iraq and Afghanistan who will thanking Prince Harry. Wall to wall coverage of what has at times felt like a forgotten war, and equally forgotten soldiers, look where the press rank the death of soldier in their news order these days.
On a 2nd point, the ignorance of some is breathtaking! From the minute that RAF aircraft descends to land anywhere in Helmand province, those on board are risking their lives, be it military personal or others like journalists. And if people like Teather and the journalists of C4 who put together that mean spirited and petty report on Friday can point me to anywhere that is considered safe in Helmand province I am sure that the local population and Nato forces will be able to disabuse them of that notion.
Its not Harry's integrity which needs to questioned. He talked the talk when he joined up, and now he has walked the walk. He is only back in the UK now because a very small element in the press thought more of circulation and statporn for their website.
Jon Snow and his freedom of the press whinge, my arse!
It's been excellent publicity for Prince Harry. After all, last time we saw him in uniform, it was a Nazi one. But it's also true that he has been genuinely brave.
Harry stating that he does not like England much is the one aspect that saddens me. For a young man of great wealth and priviledge, 3rd in line to the throne, to say that he would rather be in a hell hole of a war than his own country just demonstrates how crass this England has become.
Sarah Teather adds further credence to the saying that:
"politics is showbusiness for ugly people."
James Schneider, I think the point is that Harry could have led a life of idle, pointless luxury at home, but chose to fight instead. A course which has been followed by many priviliged young men, to their credit.
Others may have been forced into the army by poverty and lack of job opportunities, but Harry volunteered himself truly.
It's not like Harry was conscripted. He has a job and he has done that job. Well, for ten weeks anyway. Okay, it was difficult and dangerous work, but not exceptionally so.
And his reputation certainly did need some rehabilitating. I just hope for the sake of the rare wildlife of this country that he has left his guns in Afghanistan...
Well what do you expect when you put up the Intern for interview?
I remember my surprise when I was her constituent, being told that she only signs correspondence at weekends. It takes her office weeks to do anything at all.
Good constituency MP? My ar--
So-called politicians like this young woman sometimes make me wonder why I chose to serve my country as a member of the Armed Forces. Cornet Wales has done what he has trained for - led the sodiers under his command into battle, at the behest of our Government. It would be a shameful day if this lady ever became a member of a serving Government, but if she did, I would love to take her on a tour of Helmand province. Unfotunately I would then have to protect her with my life - something for all to think about.
How sad that mendacious and spiteful lefties can't contain their biterness over young Harry doing his duty. One could speculate that this is rooted in their deeply held dislike of this country's history and it's historical institutions, namely HMF and the Royal Family.
It must stick in their throats when a young man they delight in tormenting lays it all on the line for his country as true leaders should. After all are any sons of Lib Dem, Labour or Tory MP's currently serving? What about the fleet street armchair generals? Thought not.
You are all so out of touch with the country you purport to govern it is beyond a joke.
I don't think much of her either but, at least at some level somewhat more rarified than Harry himself, the propaganda value MUST have been a major consideration in the decision to send him.
That is not meant to reflect badly on Harry & I don't think it does, but lets face facts.
Thank the lord she isn't a member of a real political party.
This is just a 'girlie' spat between two women, one of whom is actually an MP, and the other of whom believes she was born with a better pot to pi$$, but is not an MP, and is bitchy towards someone doing better than she is. Jealousy is such an unpleasant trait...
This is just a 'girlie' spat between two women, one of whom is actually an MP, and the other of whom believes she was born with a better pot to pi$$, but is not an MP, and is bitchy towards someone doing better than she is. Jealousy is such an unpleasant trait...
I would actually rather like to see a 'bitch-fight' between Bagshawe and Teather.. They are both rather foxy in a 'don't judge a book by the cover' way..
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