Writing in tomorrow's NEWS OF THE WORLD, Graham Brady launches a savage attack on David Cameron's grammar schools stance. He accuses him of picking a fight with millions of ordinary working families by turning his back on grammar schools. He calls the policy "badly thought-out" and "absurd". Brady said he was warned to "shut up on education" if he wanted to keep his job in Mr Cameron's frontbench team after the Tory leader ordered chief whip Patrick McLoughlin to "bring me into line". He uses tomorrow's article to dump the policy and allow new grammars wherever parents want them. After Mr Brady quit the frontbench on Tuesday, David Willetts was forced to concede that new grammars could open in areas that already have selective education, as prominent Tories like shadow attorney general Dominic Grieve and Bernard Jenkin broke ranks. Brady said the concession showed "how badly thought-out the policy was in the first place". And he urged Mr Cameron to accept Mr Willetts' argument that grammars get in the way of social mobility was "absurd". He writes in the NOTW..."First, accept it's absurd to claim grammar schools stop kids from poor families
getting on in life. Second, make it clear that a Conservative government will listen. We don't need to promise `a grammar school in every town', but we should make it clear that if people want one we won't stand in their way. This is not just an internal Tory row. By undermining grammar schools, shadow education secretary David Willetts has set off a row with millions of ordinary working families. People are frustrated by a political establishment that talks about choice but won't let them choose a grammar school."
Brady went on to accuse the party leadership of trying to "intimidate" Tory supporters of grammars in order to close down the debate, but said that more and more of his colleagues were showing themselves unwilling to be silenced. He wrote:
"Last week I was told if I wanted to keep my job I had better shut up about education. But I decided it was more important to tell the truth about something I passionately believe in."
Gulp. Well at least I will have something to talk about on News 24 tonight!
124 comments:
How interesting Brady should choose the NofW for his piece - what with the Andy Coulson connection...
And so, after a brief interval, normal, self indulgent, devisive, electorally suicidal service is resumed for the Tories.
Cue a fourth win for Labour.
How sad.
The irony is that the Splund is on Brady's side of the argument, but ultimately until these idiots learn discipline and the importance of showing a unified face to the public then they will fail.
The Splund has never voted anything but Tory, but frankly it's getting increasingly hard to convince oneself that they are worthy of the vote.
I said this was going to run and run...
It will only be over when Cameron accepts that academically selective education is what people want for their bright children. Even the plebs, the ones who Dave thinks don't count.
Three cheers for Graham Brady!
Nice one, it's great to see that healthy debate appears to be trying hard to return to the arena of politics and that some politicians indeed have a spine and are not afraid to use it.
Well the liberal conservatives will be behind in the Polls next week!
What a twit and a twat Cameron is!
Smacks of throwing bottles on the way out to me.
Votes lost to date. Thatcherite and Right wing Tories?
Candidates who were not put on the A list?
Roman Catholics and High Church Christians.
Grey Beards ? Heterosexual Males?
Conservatives with long active service?
Bed Stopping MPs?
Northern,Scottish,Welsh and Cornish voters?
and now middle and poor class parents with kids in or going to Grammar schools.
Cameron is a loser.
Graham Baby only quit after CCHQ told every paper he was going to be sacked.
He is not a man of principle at all. I'm unimpressed by the sounds of rattles being chucked out of the pram
So "Call Me Dave" has spent over a year avoiding to give any details of any Policy that he might have.
Then when he actually goes public about a policy that he might have a policy on, it all goes Pete and Tongue.
Not a Good start Dave. Try to do better next time.
But WTF did you pick on state education? That is the ONE thing you have ABSOLUTELY no experience of.
well this a debate that's bound to do the Conservatives a lot of good where they have few voters:
viz: Wales, Manchester and Liverpool and Scotland.
I suspect any kids that do go to gramnar schools in those areas have parents who already vote conservative.
Personally I think you are losing the plot.This is unlikely to strike a cord with voters imo...
the Hitch used to work with a chap who attended Alty Grammar with our graham , coincidentaly I also used to live whithin 300m of the place.
I was told in 2000 That Graham was one to watch , a man destined for great things, I detect a tactical resignation followed by others.
COME ON YOU NORTHERNERS!
Cameron and his chums are toast.
We don't need to promise `a grammar school in every town', but we should make it clear that if people want one we won't stand in their way.
Golly. He sounds like, well, a Conservative.
It must be concerning for Dave and his pleb followers. This is the first bit of policy to be announced, ie grammar Schools. It has already done a 360o turn and gone tits up.
What is all the other pie in the sky call me Dave policies going to do?
I reckon level with Gordy in the polls mid week, next week.
Nice one Dave boyo.
Nice one Graham. It was all starting to die down.
Idiot.
Waiting for Dave to endorse the EU constitution that just helps the EU to work better.
That will move things on from grammar schools.
If grammar schools are re-introduced on any scale, so do secondary modern schools.
But in today's world, with the expectation that 45-50% of school leavers go to unversity, it follows that the top 30% of the secondary modern schools' output goes to univesity. They were never geared to do provide that in the past. Would they be in the future?
Supporters of new grammar schools have to think through all the knock-on effects. Are you impressed that they have done so?
Cameron & Co should have waited for the Policy Review Committe to report, studied its findings and then made a considered announcement.
Instead they:
(1) pre-empted the findings of the policy committee in a way which clearly implied their views were of not the slightest importance; and
(2) told a forceful, articulate and intelligent critic that he was soon going to be sacked.
What did they think would happen next?
If you hope to win the next election, please engage brain before operating mouth.
It was this Grammar Schools row that was the final straw for me never to vote Tory again. I wrote to my MP telling him that I wasn't best pleased, and got a long letter and reprint of a speech to say how Call-Me-Dave's policy was in fact Right. He can't see that in fact it is Very Left!
OK, one vote won't make much of a dent in his majority, but I've got to start somewhere.
Graham Baby only quit after CCHQ told every paper he was going to be sacked.
Bit stupid of CCHQ then wasn't it What kind of buffoons do they employ ?
Graham Baby tells us all we need to know about "anonymous"...obviously one of the buffoons in person .....hiding in the shadows, frightened of the light.....
But in today's world, with the expectation that 45-50% of school leavers go to unversity
Too many really...we don't need them all to be engineers
well this a debate that's bound to do the Conservatives a lot of good where they have few voters:
viz: Wales, Manchester and Liverpool and Scotland.
Well the Tories have done F all for places like Bradford whose schools sit at #.133 out of 148 nationally......
Parents are in despair at the crappy and violent education system they have - 116 assaults on teachers since March -
There is no purpose to the Tory Party other than to restore Grammar Schools in cities like Bradford.....and if the little rich kids from Eton and St Paul's can't manage that, noone here gives a toss about them
Almost makes me want to sell up and move back to Alty (God - to think I used to live near The Hitch), just so I can vote for this chap.
Thank God the Tories aren't control freaks like NuLabour. Can't imagine that nice David Cameron saking someone who won't toe the party line. C'mon Gordon how does it go, 'Four nil, four nil, four nil, four nil'
Either stick with Cameron, faults and all, or get 5 more years of Gordon Brown after the next General Election.
Surely it's a no-brainer?
Having witnessed Labour tricked into Conservative Blair, why are the Conservative's so keen to be tricked into Liberal Cameron?
Brady and Grieve deserve to be strung up by their balls. They've kept this thing festering for three weeks, for no good logical reason apart from narcissistic self-indulgence.
Brady, in particular, is going for broke and he doesn't give a damn now about the party. He knows he'll never get a job now under Cameron and he can only hope that there will be some kind of coup that would bring in someone like John Redwood or Edward Leigh.
That would be a nightmare scenario, which would leave the Tories in the wilderness for ever.
There has been such nonsense talked about grammar schools and I can hardly bear to re-iterate:
Grammar Schools are to be found in just half-a-dozen Authorities. In these grammar places may be added to take into account an expanding local population.
In the rest of the country, no Authority will contemplate the introduction of grammars, and no party would support the idea.
Start a grammar school and you effectively start three secondary mods. As others have pointed out, you don't win elections with the slogan: "Bring back the Secondary Mods!"
This right wing backlash against Cameron works both ways. I'm not only sick of self indugent MPs, I'm sick also of supposedly Tory newspapers. I've told the editors of The Mail and The Telegraph to stick their rags up their arses and when I finish here I'll be telling D'Ancuna to do the same with The Spectator.
Madasfish said: "I suspect any kids that do go to gramnar schools in those areas have parents who already vote conservative."
So, am I to conclude that you think that only conservative voters beget smart kids, or that parents of smart kids are smart enough to vote conservative?
Or do you just hate gifted children out of political principle?
Grammar schools were originally aimed at those who were likely to go to university, other types of schools were aimed at other careers. The main problem was that there were never enough Grammars.
A Conservative policy to convert many schools to Grammar would win overwhelming support.
There are interesting parallels between Communism and the Comprehensive System. It was obvious for years that Communism didn't work in the real world. There were always those who argued that, if only it could be followed properly, it would really work.
Labour's latest fix of bringing in security checks to reduce weapons will be as effective as rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
Selection does help poor bright kids advance. Building more Grammars will give more of them an even better chance.
Grammar schools have at least three streams so Dave's policy of one Grammar stream in Comprehensives will be completely inadequate.
This policy is driven by spin not common sense - it doesen't deserve support.
Anon.7.58 It will only be over when he's gone.Too many voters now distrust him.He's a busted flush.Well done to Brady and Grieve for sticking to their election pledges.Is Dave returning from Crete in the near future?
His pledge on EPP..worthless.His pledge on schools..wothless.The work of policy committees..worthless.His boy scout Etonian & news of the screws team..wortrhless.Tis time he was gone.
Everything he says is true. Cameron has brought this all onto himself with his phony bravado to show his power over the party... it has backfired... big style!
Willetts' argument is absurd, how many Comprehensive educated ministers are their in the Sahdow Cabinet per chance?
And why should the policy be restricted to areas that already have Grammars, what about areas that dont? Isnt this just entrenching advantage into families lucky enough to live in a Grammar school catchment area?
David Cameron has foolishly opened a can of worms he naver needed to do. The fact is that Tory policy towards Grammar School hasnt changed an iota. The only thing that will heal the rift will be a climbdown from Cameron (probably in the form of Willetts in a few months time).
Interesting that Bernard Jenkin has also broken ranks. He was pivotal in A List selection until Maude turfed him out - no reason given. No doubt he's found his loyalty to Cameron tested to near breaking point.
Recent Polls particularly have shown that without David Cameron (and Gordon Brown ) the Conservative Party is treading water. It is only when you add their names that a gap widens. Anyone therefore who has commented on the electoral performance of Cameron is an ignoramus I will delighted to teach a lesson in political reality. Support for the reintroduction of Secondary Moderns is non existent and support for Brady comes from those who want the working classes to pay for a Public school education from which they are excluded.( Thanks Edwina Currie )
Cameron’s problem is that Grammar schools might well be better than what we have , hardly setting the bar high. The Conservatives should not have made this announcement in advance of preparing the ground and setting it in the context of a new approach. . Nonetheless I am enraged to the point of incandescence that Brady has chosen to show boat our way towards New Labour’s victory . The timing was horrendous and with Browns opening smirks on the television it is outright treason . The effect on the Conservatives fortunes was immediate and already memories of the European division that made so many moderates despair are subliminally in the picture
If the Party cannot maintain discipline then it does not deserve to win .Those who are too precious for compromise had better bugger off and join UKIP with the other preening silverbacks to sit around picking the nits from their saggy arses
Brady you are a traitor and a fool its not as if the Conservatives have in any way relinquished the principle of selection. Setting is used in only 30% of schools and that is because of the NUT and is associated constituency of opinion. Who do you think was going to teach in these Grammars ? Aaaaaagh the stupidity is maddening . ! A failure to support Cameron now should not be forgiven in anyone .
DAMN YOU PRINCIPLES STICK TO YOUR PARTY !
(Disraeli)
All you Cameroons need not be so glum. Nu Labour is pisspoor and everyone knows it; after three years of the Brown Terror, with the attendant economic pigeons coming home, a Tory win is comfortably within reach, regardless of the squabbling.
In the meantime, we can train Cameron to be conservative, which he is not presently. There are two left-of-centre parties in Britain, and no-one seriously wishes for a third. Cameroon romantics who see Project Dave as some sort of war with the Tory Right can only logically end up in a part of the spectrum already populated by Clegg and Huhne and Milburn and Field. They would do the country a service by joing those parties and pushing them slightly to the Right rather than trying to emasculate the Tory Right and herd them towards Social Democracy.
Dave is close to recognising that his party's supporters want conservative government more than they want Cameron fulfilling a personal ambition. When the penny drops that rump Tory vote + 10% floaters = an electoral win, he'll be fine. Splitting the Tory rump is the suicide option.
I think Cameron is turning out to be a waste of space. he is not a Tory he is new labour of which the country is sick of.When does he come up again for leadership election ? as he would not stand a chance now we have seen what he is like.
Are we getting towards withdrawal of the whip time? I can't remember such a persistent rebellion over anything in the past. Can anyone?
It's also bizarre that Greg Clark and possibly other MPs are piling in at this point, isn't it?
"well this a debate that's bound to do the Conservatives a lot of good where they have few voters:
viz: Wales, Manchester and Liverpool and Scotland...I suspect any kids that do go to gramnar schools in those areas have parents who already vote conservative."
There aren't any Grammar Schools in Scotland or Wales. (Okay a couple with by name but they aren't Grammar Grammar Schools)
Which makes Brady's rattle throwing all the more self-indulgent.
Fork's sake move on from the 1950's will you. The mass of voters don't relate to this.
I was confused for a moment, I thought the BBC had brought back the Test Card ... then I realised it was just your tie!
Brady for PM!
I cann't believe some of the comments on here.
We have lost 3 elections in a row by preaching to the converted. It doesn't work.
Brady should be ignored, withdrawing the whip makes him a maytr.
withdrawing the whip makes him a martyr
I have never heard the phrase "it will only make him into a Martyr" without thinking it is a weak appeasing position that , in the end will repel.
Burn him
( metaphorically)
"DAMN YOU PRINCIPLES STICK TO YOUR PARTY !"
Ah, don't be so stupid. That's the attitude that got us Ted Heath. It's the mantra spouted by morons who'd vote for a monkey -or a Trot - if it wore a blue rosette.
I think the point that a lot of those raging against Cameron are missing is that grammar schools have become the province of middle class parents because they can pay for tutoring for the 11 plus exam which is an advantage as competiton for places is so brutal. I know this from personal experience when having lost my business I could no longer afford to keep my son at his independent school. He, along with 1200 other boys took the test for 60 places at QE Boys in Barnet. He is not a natural test taker and we could not afford to have him coached. He came 150 and did not get in but I have always been convinced that had he been tutored he would have made it in. I managed to get him into the Prime Minister's school of choice which is nominally a comp in that it accepts boys of all abilities - however, it sets and streams and the boys can move up and down.
When I was in school in the states we had three types of diploma - academic, commerical and general and served us very well and comps such as the London Oratory are operating along such lines. While I appreciate grammar schools and would not want to see them disappear, one wonders why we can't raise the game for all schools?
According to Iain Dale, this guy was nice and honourable!!!!
Well having watched his behaviour over the last few days, he is a shit!!!!
He attacked his party twice, then was first to crow about a possible U turn. Now he is sticking the boot in. I hope David Davis is feeling annoyed, because if not he should be after trying to save this guy's job.
He really is taking the mickey and if you can't see that Iain, no wonder you did not read the runes over Davis vs Cameron.
No-one is perfect; no-one gets it right all the time.
And it is not necessary to agree with everything in a manifesto in order to vote for a party.
Whilst Mr Brady undoubtably behaved correctly by standing up for the views of his constituents, he should now let the matter rest, not seek to kindle the flames of national debate in a way that will further entrench the Party leadership's position.
If he really wants to change Mr Cameron's mind on this issue, he is going a strange way about it.
Ha ha ha ha.
Tories in ICM UP 3% to 37%
Lab, Lib n/c
GO STUFF YOURSELVES anti-Cameroons
DC was and is right. Time for a reshuffle!
Lets face it -looking at the paper NOW. Cameron is clearly a Lost Cause. The NOW IS PAINTING HIM IN A LANGUAGE WHICH PICTURES A LOSER.
Polls heading below nu lab I reckon.
N.O.W.
Do you reckon that?
Whereas in the real world the polls show the Tories INCREASING their lead.
did you not read the post right above yours?
37%. up 3% with Labour static during the so-called Brown bounce. And by the way - ICM also shows Tories maintaining their lead on education.
The anti-Cameroons have LOST. Brady has lost. Accept that and move on. Or don't - doesn't matter since DC continues to get the party into election-winning shape.
"Polls heading below nu lab I reckon"
And yet David Cameron's Tories have increased their lead by 3% points. I wonder if Iain Dale will report this?
This whole grammar school debate seems to generate more heat than light. is there any evidence which is empirical rather than anecdotal that grannar schoold do promote social mobility. My anecdote is that in the team I work in, which is in a pretty good law firm, 50% went to public school and 50% to comprehensives. On that anecdotal basis the system seems to work.
Graham Brady does appear to have an ego issue.
If anyone has an ego isue it's Eton Dave.If it's to be done it's best done quickly.
Has news of the screws signed a "no book" deal?
The isue of Grammar schools can be extended to a more important arguments about (1) the effects of peers in the classroom (2) the effects of pupils across the school.
In exam results pupils will gravitate to the average ability in a class. A pupils weight is determined not only by their ability but their contribution to the rest of the class. A bright genius carries very little weight, a distruptive idiot carries alot of weight.
In career choice, pupils will gravitate to the avaerage ablity acros the school. A school sets expectations and an ethos for its children. This is reflected in the uniform, the goals set for the children, the career expectations, playground behaviour etc.
So the question becomes how do these two factors influence each other.
Spot on Javelin,spot on.
That's why Etonians do so well!
Great line from Matthew d'Ancona in the Telegraph, neatly sums up the confusion and incoherence on Day 19:
"To find out whether your personal belief in grammar schools is "practical politics" or not, first check your postcode and GPS coordinates."
Some questions:
1: Didn't the Tories go up in the polls despite the furore over green flight taxes?
The harrumphing then was the same now, albeit a little more drawn out (not to mention a bit more vindictive). It does seem that the nation is giving a collective yawn to the whole thing, despite the newspapers.
I read a lot of non-political websites, and this whole debate is only ever mentioned by those politically motivated anyway. What does that say?
2: Doesn't Cameron's personal ratings go down when he's not in the limelight anyway?
I'm sure you can expect to see him a lot more on our screens in the next couple of weeks, and chances are he'll get a bit of a poll bounce as a result.
Yes, the Tories need to sort out their presentation still, but then they've needed to since 1997.
It's nice to know that some of the Conservative Party haven't forgotten how to lose an election. This is a non-issue with the majority of voters.
Cameron is the only leader you've had in the past 10 years who has any chance of beating Labour, even when led by Gordon Brown. People may not like the fact but most people are totally disinterested in petty arguments over nothing that the Conservative Party seems hell bent on pursuing to destruction !
This goes to prove that even eton cant polish a turd.Cameron doesnt want the job of pm so can we have davis cos hes the only one fighting as far as i can see.No wonder bruun is smiling now camerkazi has blown it.Danm it if he cant beat bruun he cant beat a rug.
Dave should not sack Willetts.As someone said it's the "ORGAN GRINDER" you want.
We seem to be missing the point.Even a hundred failed News of the Screws editors won't make any difference if the policy he's trying to SPIN is WRONG.
It's time for David Cameron to clear out the old guard. Get rid of all the disloyal back stabbers. Dominic Grieve should get the chop.
Time to promote Ed Vaizey!
PS> Iain, I saw your eBay tie on BBC News 24 last night. It was errrmmmm 'something else' !
This is a row about who is to lead the Conservative party and should be seen in that context. I don't suppose that anyone really believes that there will be a return to more extensive 11+ selection or the grammar school system. Our current system seems to have no problem delivering good A level grades (note that all schools have selective 6th form entry), the problem is at the lower end of the achievement range and the social/economic problems that these failings cause.
As for the leadership issue, if anyone really thinks that David Davies or another more traditional Tory can win the next election, they are truly delusional. Cameron is the best hope for the Tories, now give him some support and stop trumpeting policy proposals that failed 40 years ago in an infinitely more cohesive society than we have now.
I've written two longish pieces on Brady and Cameron on my blog, seeing the 'Grammar Games' in a positive light for Cameron and the Conservatives - suggesting Brady should realise he's won, and start looking beyond mere attack now. Always give your opponent a way out, especially if it's your party leader!
Grammar games have been Clause 4 in reverse. Politics is moving away from total centralising of decision-making by Party leadership in cahouts with the media. Cameron must take much of the credit for that.
He is surrounded by less than adequate advisers, and should make a few key changes there. Otherwise it is most refreshing to witness the rebirth of democracy in the Conservative Party.
Brady can relax a little and look to what will happen next, to secure the changes he has initiated by attacking the grammar policy.
Anon.10.50 I'm sure the Member for Monmouth will enjoy your comments.
I had no idea there were two of them! Apologies to the gentleman from Monmouthshire.
I've always liked Dominic Grieve, he's always come across as intelligent and straightforward.
Cameron is the best hope for the Tories
Pleased to hear it...stick with him !
David Cameron must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.
Has Brady got no idea how damaging this is for the party.
The Daily Mail made a superb point yesterday about how David Cameron is the best leader we have had for years.
Why spoil it all chaps.
Do certain people actually want to win the next election.
Stop the bickering and get behind DC because at the end of the day its the morale and efforts of the grassroots that are being undermined - the people who run the coffe mornings, the people who deliver the leaflets and the people who run the associations.
Cameron has got a major speech coming up on Tuesday so please just draw a line under the bickering and let the leadership move on!
Do certain people actually want to win the next election.
Are you the Geoffrey Brooking in Lincoln standing for The Glebe who came third out of three candidates.....and was beaten by Labour and LibDems ?
You got 21.5% votes cast down 4.2% and Labour got 45% down 4.8%.
Why didn't you promote the same programme as Labour or LibDems to improve your results and win the ward ?
Just why did voters swing away from Conservatives and Labour in almost equal percentage ?
Geoffrey Brooking - reading some of the comments on here and ConHome, I can't help thinking plenty of Tories would be far happier if they had IDS in charge and 8% behind in the polls.
Like it or not, Cameron is the best (and probably only) leader the Tories are likely to have in some time.
apathetic-assume your views stem from your name.
anon - actually, non-voter is more accurate, as I've never voted and only have ever considered it when Cameron came along.
As us non voters always get accused of being apathetic, I suppose I had to put that in
I've no idea how representative my views are of the great unwashed, but this last couple of weeks has shown an unwelcome return to the "Nasty Party" mentality, of only wanting to talk about what they themselves are interested in and undermining the leader.
How Cameron overcomes this I don't know, but the NOTW guy is highly significant
At least when I stand for council I sing from the same sheet and show loyalty which is more than can be said for some right wing blue rinse bubbles.
Willetts said that grammars didn't work because the ones that existed did not increase social mobility. There are several problems with this premise, not bad for someone with two brains.
In the first place, the objective of grammar schools is to provide an academic education for those deemed by wit of having passed the 11+ to have the ability so to benefit.
In the second place, as social mobility has declined since that abolition of grammar schools, two conclusions may be drawn, that grammar schools when comprehensively available did increase social mobility, and that schools without selective intake do not achieve it.
In the third place, because grammars are not universally available, there is much pressure by middle class parents to move into relevant catchment areas; some like Harriet Harman don't even bother to move to achieve the same result.
The problem of devising an education policy which would in practice provide the type of education most suitable for each child would by its very nature, not only ensure that that the academically gifted were able to achieve their potential, but that they would constitute the academic elite of the next generation, irrespective of background. Comprehensive schools have signally failed in forty years to achieve this. On the contrary, they have blighted the opportunities of vast numbers of children to their own and the countries detriment, to the extent that this country is no longer self-sufficient in doctors or engineers.
Education in this country for the many is extremely poor and worse than it was before grammars were abolished, only disguised by the hyper-inflation of examination grades and the invention of large numbers of tertiary courses for which neither prior learning nor academic ability is the sine qua non. This has made it not only impossible for university tutors to detect real ability, but has resulted even more damagingly, in the progressive closure of courses in real science and engineering as opposed to the ersatz variety, at a time when our East Asian competitors are beginning to achieve overall primacy in these same areas.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and until an alternative to the bog standard comprehensive is proven to achieve better results overall, it would have been extremely wise not to prematurely close off options.
This was not clause four: nationalisation comprehensively had been proven to be extremely damaging to many industries without ultimately offering job security as a consolation prize; experience had already shown the way forward, but with education, experience has merely demonstrated that comprehensives are as much a failed experiment as nationalisation.
Geoffrey G Brooking said...
At least when I stand for council I sing from the same sheet and show loyalty which is more than can be said for some right wing blue rinse bubbles.
but you decreased the Conservative share of the vote - it went backwards....hardly an inspirational rallying call for voters to the Cameron Project
with this premise, not bad for someone with two brains.
Silly description of Willetts....suggests schizophrenia....there is Willetts, David from Grammar Schoolin B'ham and sends his daughters to highly-selective fee-paying schools......and there is David Willetts who goes and tells the CBI a load of baloney because Prince Petulant tells him too.......and been a weak-willed character he does just that
David Willetts is a superb shadow education secretary.
What parents want the Conservative Party to do is something about the shocking standards in Britain's schools overall like increasing the number of people who leave with five GCSE's including English and Maths, decreasing the number of people who leave with no qualifications at all and certainly not tying itself up in knots over grammar school policy.
Put Britain First and get behind the Conservative Party!
increasing the number of people who leave with five GCSE's including English and Maths,
The pass mark in GCSE Maths is 16%.......
The GCSE "passes" are inflated by using NVQs to count for 2, 3, or even 4 "GCSE Passes" per subject like ICT.
The whole shambolic mess comes from politicians who switched from debasing the currency to debasing exams.....
Just go back and set them all 1970s O-Level Papers and see the difference
Politicians created this chocolate mess and they intend to make it stickier and destroy all hope of sorting out the results of their incompetence.
Close down public schools and make politicians send their children to inner-city comprehensives....just to focus their attention
As someone who sat his O levels in the '70s and is now watching his children swot for their GCSEs, I can assure you that it still requires an enormous effort to get A* - C grade passes.
What amazes me, however, is the way that the curriculum content of these subjects has expanded. Much of what is being learnt at this age (15/16) is demonstrably irrelevant. I think the teaching profession has much to answer for in this respect.
I recently came across some letters written by my grandfather in 1913 when he left school aged 14 and applied for his first job. The use of language was impeccable and the handwriting elegant. He found employment as an office boy and progressed (after the war) to become an accountant.
I look at what my children have to study now and their prospects of finding employment before they reach their early 20s and wonder whether our education system really deliver much more than opportunities for the teaching profession.
apathetic: I certainly agree that Dave has been very nasty indeed to his members,his policy committee's,the Party Board and his long suffering back benchers.
That Etonian arrogance will be his undoing.
Surely the Tories long, long ago gave up on any policy of promoting or expanding grammar schools? Surely, for example, Margaret Thatcher as a Minister oversaw, and approved of, the closure of many grammar schools?
Sounds to an outsider like me, that this all has the makings of something like John Major’s ‘Bastards’ that helped destroy his Government and the Tories party’s electoral credibility – some low profile MPs getting all hot and bothered from a narrow, selfish ‘save their own seats’ perspective, and on a nasty, elitist and reactionary issue that the worse of the Tory press will gladly feed upon… all to the greater damage of the party and, more importantly, to the quality of the national debate around the critical issue of education policy.
Margaret Thatcher as a Minister oversaw, and approved of, the closure of many grammar schools?
Margaret Thatcher as Education Secretary stopped 90+ Grammar Schools from being closed.
As Prime Minister she introduced Assisted Places Scheme - The Sutton Trust wants to see these restored and is financing some places itself in Liverpool
She also signed up to the Single European Act and John Major signed Maastricht; I take it Cameron will give full support to any new Constitutional Treaty in the EU so as not to be contrary to Conservative policy over the past 30 years !
anon - I think you're (deliberately?) missing my point. Or worse, twisting it to mean something totally opposite to what I said.
Perhaps those growling about how badly Cameron is treating them should ask themselves why he's doing it. Ego? Possibly. Power hungry? Maybe.
Or is it something else? Like a realisation that banging on about things that interest them and them only loses elections.
Like the Labour Left, the Traditional Tory wing has become dogmatic, only willing to pay heed to those that agree with it and offputting to moderates.
Don't believe me? Both the 2001 and 2005 Tory election campaigned seemed to be aimed towards guaranteed Tory voters and not the highly lucrative centre ground. We all know what happened there, don't we?
His Etonian arrogance may eventually get the better of him. But it appears a helluva lot more effective than what's gone on for the last decade....
(and before I get accused of being a Cameroon stooge, as I'm bound to be, I am not and never will be a member of a political party. Probably won't stop the accusations though)
This from the Beeb two days ago - 'Indeed, Mrs Thatcher (as she then was) is understood to have signed away more grammar schools between 1970 and 1974 than any other education secretary before or since.'
'Indeed, Mrs Thatcher (as she then was) is understood to have signed away more grammar schools between 1970 and 1974 than any other education secretary before or since.'
So good that 164 survived then....obviously Conservative Councilors stood up against Conservative policy in government.
It does show that resistance to madcap ideas from CCHQ does work and bring results. There must be redoubled efforts to prevent Cameron's destructive tendencies
This is going to turn out badly for Cameron. Nothing to do with the actual grammar Schools issue but because every time Brady goes on the TV about it, millions of people see someone who looks even more like Harry Enfield's Tim Nice-but-Dim than the original, and associates that with the REAL Conservative Party, thus undoing all this 'tuqoise Tory' rubbish which Dave's been trying to spin for the last year.
This is the second blog where I've posted about the same subject today. Where are the arguments in favour of parental choice? Isn't it a central pillar of Tory philosophy?
If parents in some areas choose to have a selective education system, because they like it's benefits, if others decide that they would like some too, why should the government stand in their way, if they have elected councillors to fulfill their wishes?
apathetic.page 7 of the Mail makes a good Dave family read--and we haven't got to Astor yet.
Chin chin
11.51, Neither the KE nor the KEHS are grammar schools. There are grammar schools in Birmingham, but these two have always been independent, fee-paying schools.
I agree with Curly - we sould be allowed to choose our parents!
Horsefaced
Brady has made his point and should now button it, the gormless looking burke.
Forthhurst it is a lie that if there were Grammar schools everywhere there would be no "Pressure " on middle class parents to make them enclaves of privilege. there is no additional "Pressure “ , its just that the development of the housing market since the 1950s has made existing pressures produce different results . I have seen the various Hefferish defences along these lines and they cannot be taken seriously . Evidence that , for example in Northern Ireland , both reject and elite schools, out perform comps does indeed show much about the catastrophic state of English civil society but does not show that this system would achieve the same result here . The same is true of all residual Grammar areas , they did not become so by accident and you are reading the results the wrong way round .
The truth is that those parents who want Grammars back do not envisage their children attending secondary modern and what we are seeing is something of a lower middle class frustration with the Upper middleclass . I have some sympathy with this and I wish that David Cameron was aware of the real sense of grievance and its causes.
In my view rthe answer should be to balance the abolition of Grammars with the abolition of Private schools or at least the removal of their charitable status . I then feel that school intake has to be seriously addressed and a fair system devised for the majority rdenied their first choice . Lotteries would achieve this it would begin to bring the NUT back into the land of the sane and revised methods might spread , such as setting among a homogenously competitive environment. Lastly I am becoming more open to the idea that vouchers financing a variety of schools at the edges can have a a great effect on the majority state sector .
The Conservative Party have given us the pill without the sugar and have not thought the reasoning or the politics through properly .
northener have you been looking in the mirror again
"Sounds to an outsider like me, that this all has the makings of something like John Major’s ‘Bastards’ that helped destroy his Government and the Tories party’s electoral credibility – some low profile MPs getting all hot and bothered from a narrow, selfish ‘save their own seats’ perspective, and on a nasty, elitist and reactionary issue that the worse of the Tory press will gladly feed upon… all to the greater damage of the party and, more importantly, to the quality of the national debate around the critical issue of education policy."
Ted, spot on and I must admit when I look at Brady and his behaviour I immediately think of Major or IDS and that famous off the record comment about those in the party who don't care about the damage they do to our party.
Brady is indeed a preening prat and should be stoned in the square for treason. There is no way to win without the centre and there is no way to win without unity. With education it is entirely possible to recast good Conservative ideas of selection and opportunity into an inclusive model.
I wonder if Brady is really a Conservative or in fact a idealogue wierdo of the sort they like in France.
Have we not learnt from Blair`s horrors that policy is composed of people not imposed on them . Conservatives used to understand this instinctively . You have to occupy the centre and move it. Education is an ideal area for the Conservatives to be concerned with poverty as they must be.It is horrifying to see the lack of vision from some
There are tactical reasons for supprting Cameron even when he is wrong but in this case it is painless choice as no great principle is as stake . I am begginning to see why Mill called Conservativews the stupid Party. Some of you are like my two year old son with his toy car with your Grammars.Shrieking infants
The grasping at straws like Thatcher 'saving' 90 grammar schools and the Assisted Places Scheme underlie my points. Both these peripheral and marginal instances merely underlie how much official Tory policy had abandoned grammar schools.
The 90 'saved' would have been tactical withdrawalws in the face of visceral highly localised campaigns.The Assisted Places Scheme was, plainly, partly a sop to the reaguard, and partly a hopeful (and failed) pilot that came to nought.
A doughty and cynical campaigner like Thatcher will simply cede ground to the Blimps leading these campaigns on the 'bigger picture' basis that they were not worth expending energies on resisting.
As the all-dominant Prime Minster, Thatcher did nothing for all practical intents and purposes to 'bring back' grammar schools, or even reverse them being left to whither.
The fact that present day Tories are seeking to re-write even the Holy Grail of Thatcherism in respect of this issue shows how divisive it is.
Strange that New Labour have been split for years over numerous important issues and that an opposition party attracts so much copy over Grammar schools. Something to do with the media perhaps?
You're right. The Daily telegraph and mail on Sunday are correctly identified as being hot-beds of socialist activism.
Your name not Litvenienko is it by any chance?
New Labour split over Iraq, thousands dead. Tories split over grammar schools-spilt milk.
As the all-dominant Prime Minster, Thatcher did nothing for all practical intents and purposes to 'bring back' grammar schools, or even reverse them being left to whither.
and she was the greatest European Integrator since Edward Heath bringing us The Single European Act and Major followed with The Maastricht Treaty.....Blair with The Amsterdam Treaty
It seems reasonable now for Cameron to urge Blair to sign The Berlin Treaty in 2007 and continue the path upon which Thatcher set out and thus Cameron will be able to show the Blimps that he too is a keen Integrationist
Yes....the Tories are a party of false prospectus committed to doughty and cynical approaches to the voting public.
YES ! They have noticed which is why Cameron is beached.
Some of you are like my two year old son with his toy car with your Grammars.Shrieking infants
You are indeed fortunate in your son...presumably his mother's genes will make him more intelligent than his father
This is the second blog where I've posted about the same subject today. Where are the arguments in favour of parental choice? Isn't it a central pillar of Tory philosophy?
Nick Gibb seemed to think so on Politics UK (BBC World Service) as the interviewer queried him on fee-paying schools.....he stated that that was parental choice
Clearly the Tory Way is Choice is for those with Cash to buy private
All seeing eye-Brilliantly put.
For any other folks out there watching this thread it must be like a video nasty of the Tory travails:
The quality of diatribe presented by wordsmiths as argument ("experience has merely demonstrated that comprehensives are as much a failed experiment as nationalisation").
The deteriorating dialogue (' a preening prat' and 'you are like my two-year old son'... and... 'you are indeed fortunate in your son').
All mixed with the meaningless-to-plain-speakers (Tomtom's last posting??)
Getting a bit like CCHQ.
rhllzmr Brady like much of the Conservative Party seems to be unable to grasp the first two lessons of politics:
1. It is no use arguing amongst yourselves about the policies you want to adopt when you are in power .. if you are not in power.
2. To get into power, you HAVE to win the middle ground voters. If you argue about an issue which for many people is irrelevant, you cannot expect the middle gorund to vote for you.
The CP remind sme more an dmore of Michael Foot's Labour party...
All mixed with the meaningless-to-plain-speakers (Tomtom's last posting??)
Aw Shucks Ted I thought you'd heard of the BBC and its World Service radio - been going for over 70 years now.
Nick Gibb is a sidekick of that guy Willetts and he was on Politics UK
BBC
getting a stewing over Conservative "policy" and the interviewer was skewering him.
Gibb justfied not abolishing fee-paying schools by calling them parental choice
ie. Money buys you out of our "policy"
Award
It is no use arguing amongst yourselves about the policies you want to adopt when you are in power
You must be terribly young....that is how parties used to debate issues for the Manifesto.....before it became Procter & Gamble selling Fairy
Geoffrey G Brooking said...
"At least when I stand for council I sing from the same sheet and show loyalty which is more than can be said for some right wing blue rinse bubbles."
You mean you've no principles and you'll spout any old codswallop to ingratiate yourself with the party leadership. Thank you for confirming that you're not fit to be elected.
"Clearly the Tory Way is Choice is for those with Cash to buy private"
Does the capital C here indicate that this is a new form of selection which has something to do with dear Bill?
What's all the fuss.There's always Eton old boy.If you have the cash that is.
You are indeed fortunate in your son...presumably his mother's genes will make him more intelligent than his father
I certainly hope so :)
The debate on comprehensives vs grammar schools/secondary moderns has been raging in this country for decades and has done the children concerned no favours. Both sets of idealogues should be ignored.
In putting together an education policy, a realisitic response has to be made to the current situation. An article on 'Blair's Legacy' in the current issue of the magazine of the Royal Society of Chemistry notes that:
'Schools science is in crisis. Approximately half a million children are in schools that have no chemistry teacher at all, while three quarters of all schools are cancelling science classes.'
Just a snap-shot of what's going on. We need policies to get the basic things right in our schools, and not esoteric debates. This surely is the key issue in improving the quality of education.
I agree with you 100% Lerxst. Far too many of our politicians pay more attention to the party political machine, than they do their constituents. If you passionately believe in something that affects your constituency, then you don’t roll on your back and play dead!
Anyway, this is all the failing of having elected a privileged public school twit as party leader, who in turn has appointed other similarly educated know-nothings into the shadow cabinet. There have never been any decent policies emanating from this little cabal except for half-assed ideas which are change for changes sake. I knew it would come to this sooner, rather than later, and we should start to really consider how much more of this we can all take.
If the management of a group daughter company started to prat about like this bunch, I’d have a culling from the top down and put some decent experienced managers in to sort it out. (…and one wouldn’t be from a national rag with the unofficial title, “The Whores’ Gazette”.
We need policies to get the basic things right in our schools, and not esoteric debates. This surely is the key issue in improving the quality of education.
Rather begs the question doesn't it ?
and put some decent experienced managers in to sort it out.
Michael Howard , Iain Duncan Smith you mean ? You surely don't really expect policies to be slapped out on the table at this stage
Supporting party means supporting the Policy you like least in what must necessarily be a broad coalition . Do we have to lose again and this time to virulent socialist who may well introduce PR a nd god knows what ?
This attachment to Grammars is of highly debatable educational or moral value and does not bear on the general efficacy of selection which can be achieved through setting if you can ever convince the NUT. Policy starts from now not from the 1950s , or Suez or whenever it is you people would like to return to.
Supporting party means supporting the Policy you like least in what must necessarily be a broad coalition .
That was probably what German voters said when voting NSDAP....the jobs bit of the programme was attractive but the bits about the Jews the policy voters liked least but were prepared to stomach in return for jobs.
Yes Newmania, you now see why people go along to get along
What Willetts and Cameron have said is that Conservative Party policy will be the same now as it has been for 30 years: no extension of selection. The pretence that this is a series of u-turns, or that it is hard to follow is absurd. Disagree if you like, but it is consistent and simple.
Editor of http://www.quentinlangley.net
Has newmania dropped the c from the end of his name for any reason?
have said is that Conservative Party policy will be the same now as it has been for 30 years: no extension of selection
What a pity. This is a very unattractive party with very unattractive policies....opening eschewing one of the few policies that made them even halfway palatable seems stupidity.
The Assisted Places Scheme offered some way out for people in the 1980s - but it appears the Conservative Party is reverting back to its origins as the party of the Southern Money Class
I wish that many of this trendy, modernist group that has invaded the Tory party would be realistic and stop trying to be all things to all men, when their sole desire is power and nothing else.
The Blair regime was similarly guided from inception with a “promise anything” tag with no idea whatsoever how to accomplish it, nor did they have the qualifications, or the experience to see anything through. This media driven government is the worst I have experienced yet the Tories are hot-foot trying to copy it and being led by a couple of totally out-of-touch schoolboy toffs.
I doubt very much that many of the contributors to this thread have any experience in our schools other than as parents and maybe should start communicating with the teachers about hands on experience and what works well today, yesterday, or whenever. I think you will learn that even the teachers agree that selection by examination at 11 years is not good and some may even agree that a similar selection at 14 years is also not such a good idea either.
Most teachers would prefer selection by work results over a period of years and placement at academic/technical/business school on aptitude. The Grammar/Secondary selection was always wrong and I am old enough to remember the bicycle my sister was given by my parents for passing the 11+ and my own disappointment when I failed and there was no bicycle for me! That, of course, was totally wrong of my parents yet I eventually went to university and my sister did not!
The Comprehensive school has been a disaster. Ever since these education factories began they have failed our children for several reasons. Point one is that they were always too big and unmanageable. Point two is that mixing children of different abilities in large classes just doesn’t work and the brightest kids are held back, or are frightened by the bullies or disruptive elements. Streaming kids by ability also invites aggression and anyway only puts strain on teachers that have to handle the ”D” class where body armour is a standard requirement. Far too often I have seen bright kids give up, just becoming one of the gang of wasters. We need to take the learners out of this environment and this means selection of some sort. The most urgent need currently is what to do with the aggressive, disruptive element in our schools. Maybe instead of “hugging” these thugs, the Conservative leadership might want to place them in Boot-Camps of some sort and let them learn unconditional discipline. I’m sure the country at large would be eternally grateful for such a move but it is a fanciful idea with these potential wasters!
See
http://mrread.blogspot.com/2007/06/grammar-schools-normally-i-steer-clear.html
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