So the amendment falls by 63 votes. I have a feeling that is the number of LibDem MPs there are. So we can truly blame the LibDems for the fact that there won't be a referendum. Just so we've got that clear.
UPDATE: Well done to the 13 LibDem MPs who voted for a referendum. Glad to know that 20 per cent of LibDem MPs have the courage of their convictions. Shame about the rest.
49 comments:
Well there are 63 Lib Dems but 13 voted so that only leaves 50 that abstained.
But i think they've done themselves enough damage over the last few days that what little credibility they had left has now vanished.
Brown - you lied to us and continue to do so. Resign.
So that's what the Lib Dems are for - helping to save us months of sterile "debate" and the huge waste of public money that would have been needed to hold a referendum. Isn't making decisions what we pay MPs for?
The question is this: Who are the 80-odd w*nkers that didn't vote?
But 13 Lib Dems voted with the Tories Iain.
But 13 Lib Dems voted with the Tories Iain
The question is this: Who are the 87 wankers that didn't vote? 50 of them are Lib Dems, but who are the others that felt this amendment was not important enough to vote on.
That's actually not quite true - 13 Lib Dem MPs did what you would have wanted them to, and voted in favour of a referendum. Presumably the other 50 abstained. Those 50 votes wouldn't have been enough to carry the difference.
So the wankers of Westminster have lied to get into power and sold out the people of Britain. It's now a them and us struggle. They've broken the social contract. They've broken faith with the people who elected them. And Judas in chief is Nick effing Clegg. There's nothing they could ever say to me now I would ever believe ...
What was the voting record of the Welsh, N Ireland and Scotland MPs?
The odd thing is, I thought the LibDems claimed the "moral High ground" of UK politics because they stood by their principles and that is what made them unique. NOT ANYMORE.
Excepting the 13 good men and women that honoured their election promise.
Sorry forgot about the Speaker and his three deputies, and the Sinn Fein 5. That's still 78 who did not vote.
Jonny Wright - they alone wouldn't, but you have to factor in the willingness to rebel - with the Lib Dems abstaining Labour members will have known that they didn't have the numbers to make a difference. When something is touch and go it encourages the rebels because they're rebelling for a purpose.
What is quite noticeable is Nick Clegg's complete failure to follow up his "abstain or be sacked" warning. The only leavers so far have been at their own request.
He really has no conviction of leadership does he?
That is the last time the Lib Dems ever get a sniff of my vote - ever..
When will the division list be printed on the internet? I want to know what some of my local MPs did.
I know what my local Liberal MP Norman Baker did . He assisted in the shabby trickery like a fat pointess Debbie McGee.
The sad thing is that there are some decent Lib Dems and many decent Lib Dem voters . Their Party elite however are shifty lying power hungry scum bags and when Nick Clegg gets his seat in Brown`s Cabinet( legitimsing rule in England..he`ll say)...we will know that the deal was done now .
.
As to whether Heath and co showed principle ...really , given that they are in marginal seats who are anti EU ..is this principle ?
Saving his scraggy traitor arse more like.
A deal has been done . Clegg is Brown`s pet bunny rabbit now
So it really is true that the majority of our politicians are liars and cowards. I have long suspected this, but it is no comfort to be proved right.
I have voted LibDem in every election since I moved to Oxford East. This has not been a matter of conviction, but essentially a vote against Andrew Smith, a paricularly loathsome Brown crony.
This policy is now at an end. There is no difference between the LibDems and Labour. They are both utterly contemptible.
Who are the 13?
The Tories must accept some of the blame for not winning the argument. Hague is just not convincing enough.
If he is the best the Tories can offer us then we are truly screwed.
Milliband had him hands down on radio 4 this morning on an issue that should be a cakewalk for Conservatives.
newmania, Heath is a good man (compared to his Tory opponent - pathetic girl) - and scraggy, he aint!
The principles are the issue.
I heard a LibDem shadow saying he was resigning because he'd promised his constituents to vote for a referendum on the Constitution. That was impossible when the three-line whip was instigated.
His principles/integrity would appear to me to be intact. He resigned and voted according to his promise.
However, those who "broke" their promise did so in the belief that the Treaty was not the same as the Constitution. A respectable position, even if you believe it not to be different in effect. Those who truly believed there are significant differences, I believe, preserve their integrity.
The ones who are truly spineless are those who believe one thing about the Treaty and vote the opposite way because of their own agenda, or that of their masters.
I believe those spineless gits are members of every party in equal measure.
A bit non-partisan for this site, but recognising and respecting the other opinion isn't a pre-requisite for failure. What to do about it? Address the Whips' responsibility, the accountability to the debating chamber, and we floaters might just start to recognise the authority of our leaders.
Some famous quotes:
"Democracy is too good to share with just anybody." Nigel Rees.
"Any political party that includes the word 'democratic' in its name, isn't." Patrick Murray.
"The House of Commons is the longest running farce in the West End." Cyril Smith.
I'm one of the I Want A Referendum campaigners who've worked our socks off and campaigned our hearts out, tramping the freezing streets to give the people of our constituencies a say. Our hope was to stir our MP's consciences with local referendum results they couldn't ignore.
Some hope, all Gordon Brown, Nick Clegg and the other MPs who've betrayed the people of Britain this evening are interested in is their own self interest.
Please publish the names of those who betrayed us in a hall of shame, Iain, with Brown and Clegg at the top.
Brown, Clegg and betrayers all, your duplicity will return to haunt you.
I'm beginning to think last week's Plane Stupid demo on the roof of the Commons was a put up job to deflect publicity from the referendum campaigners. Who let them in? Have the names been released yet?
There should be a 'shame on you' demo at Westminster now. And Nick Clegg should be pelted with rotten eggs.
Great to know that with fewer than 3 months on the clock, Clegg has found a power base of 16 potential 'serial rebels', because once they have a taste for it, and have crossed that Rubicon...
Newmania - I know this is slightly off-topic, but I really don't think a Lib-Lab coalition is feasible in the current climate. The sticking point is going to be ID cards - Brown has dug himself into a hole, claiming that ID cards are a key part of Labour's strategy. Clegg has said he would rather go to prison than carry an ID card. That issue might seem like it's in the background right now, with all the fuss over Europe, but if there's a hung parliament, I can imagine it would totally screw up any chance of Lib Dem cooperation with Labour.
Clegg is a featherweight prat. Neither left nor right, but all over the shop. Still dribbling on about leading in Europe. He might start closer to home with his own party. How on earth did they elect that reedy voiced charisma vacuum as leader?
Anyway. No referendum. No legitimacy. There can be no quibbling in due course when Parliament repeals this sorry mess.
The Lib Dems are, sorry - always were, an interesting rag-bag collective of political mongrels who either didn't feel happy with all the Labour policies or all the Conservative policies.
Unfortunately, finding yourself confused and unhappily positioned, somewhere in-between the left and the right isn't the same as having a clear political perspective, policies, values or an identity that most ordinary voters could relate to.
That is why the SDP / Liberals / Liberal Democrats have always had the luxury of being able to scream and howl about policies that they know they will never be called on to deliver by the British electorate.
And why, as some form of displacement activity, they vent their spleen on each other. They smile as they stab each other in the back. It's the closest they will ever get to real power.
They will still be relevant at local council level but, as of today, the Lib Dems have begun their steady implosion as a Parliamentary political party.
Charlie pissed or Clegg sober?
No contest!
Come back Charlie and we'll buy you a bottle of whiskey!
Peter J - it's not true. Ask Phillip Cowley of revolts.co.uk. The more likely it appears that a Labour rebellion may succeed, the harsher the whip gets and suddenly opposition softens to abstention and the government wins.
I'm quite confident in saying that if the LDs had backed the amendment, we would have had the same result. Rebellions tend to shrink or expand to fit the gap available but hardly ever go "over the top". No Labour MP wants to be the one responsible for finally tipping the government over the brink into the abyss.
So that would be SOME of the LibDems and MOST of the Labour MPs that have betrayed the people of this country and demonstrated a complete and utter lack of integrity and honour.
You Tories never fail to make me chuckle, you don’t get it and will never get it.
You scoff at the lib dems who rebelled, but those rebellious MPs were supporting you…Square that one. Takes flip flopping to new dimensions, ridiculing people who actually supported your amendment to the Lisbon Treaty Bill
Those who rebelled, their seats are now safe as houses. They can go to their constituencies with their heads held high, and will be admired for their stance.
Also today was supposed to be Browns annus horriblous, but he is back at No ten this evening chuckling into his drinking chocolate.
Cameron lost, IWAR look stupid, and furthermore in the weeks running up to this vote IWAR did more to publicize the Treaty debate than the Tories. In fact cowardly cambo hide behind the coat tails of IWAR.
A lib-lab pact is entirely feasible. And as for ID cards - the BBC reported today that Jacqui Smith is already preparing a climbdown. Apparently if you've got a passport that will be good enough. They are getting ready to ditch ID cards and cement the lib lab sweetheart deal.
The sight of Chris 'PowerPants' Paul dissing the people principled enough to believe that since a referendum had been promised, then that promise should be kept, was truly sickening.
After today I don't think even a Lib/Lab pact will save Brown.
Anonymous 10.12 pm,
North of the Border, we spell it "whisky"
But seeing as you're buying, you're shtill my besht friend.
Honesht!
Sorry, but can you tell me where the gents is?
If the Lib Dems who abstained voted with the Tories, the vote would still have been lost.
They are not exclusively to blame.
Let's get that clear.
Most MPs at the Scottish Parliament South were only doing their job, namely signing England over to a foreign power, their masters and employers in Brussels, nothing will be done about it, most people dont give a damn about their country, only football, big brother and pop idol.
The silent majority have let the self hating vocal minority left wing extremists, self haters and agitators win, therefore English people no longer deserve their own country, it will now be formally carved up into EUSSR regions, just as scotland and wales are in their entirety, we deserve a dictatorship and now have that what we deserve.
But still nevermind, footy highlights are on the telly in half an hour.
I see the cowardly communist contributors are with us from the Number 10 Kindergarten.
Pete said was certainly listening to a quite different discussion on Today between Hague and Uriah Heep Milliband. Hague wiped the floor with him.
The commies are obviously worried about Hague.
But let us see what Cameron does now! Yes we await the Lords and how they react. Hopefully they will support a referendum. BUT it is doubtful.
Will Cameron PROMISE to hold a referendum on this treaty after the next General Election if the Conservative Party wins? That is now the question.
Whilst I agree with everything people have said about the ghastly weak and unprincipled Lib Dems. Let us never forget that THREE Conservatives voted with Labour. Ken Clarke and I do not know the other two at this moment in time!
Those three should have the whip withdrawn and the local association asked to deselect them.
Clarke is like the old Mill Owners. He knows best on just about everything. He admitted he never read the Meastricht Treaty. I bet he never read this one!
I believe though that this will make Brown bolder. He thinks he has won. I just hope people will not let the matter drift away.
Johny Wrong said -I can imagine it would totally screw up any chance of Lib Dem cooperation with Labour.
As mentioned the climb down is afoot and the talk of Lib Lab pacts is all over the New Statesman this week. You`ll learn and then you`ll be a Conservative.
Typical Illiberal Undemocrats! No change there.
Despite their rhetoric to the contrary - this is - once again - proof positive - that the Lib-Lab Pact is still functioning!
What a yellow shower - bar 13.
chat show charlie said...
.......Sorry, but can you tell me where the gents is?
Not all over my shoe you dirty sod!
It is clear that Cameron should now promise a referendum if he is elected.
Bet he doesn't.
I believe he knew he was going to lose this vote and his position is mere posturing.
He is as neo-liberal as the rest.
Newmania: "Johny Wrong ..."
Wow. Blast from the past. Nobody's called me that since primary school! What an amazingly original nickname to come up with ...
Well said Mr. Clarke!
The artist previously known as JOHNY WRONG and henceforth known as JOHNY DIFFERENTLY-RIGHT is directed to Jaqui Smiths announcement that citizens will be able to choose between having an ID card or a new biometric passport.
This will , of course only end up being ID cards but will provide the fig leaf required.
Cheerio DR
So that's 311 confirmed names for arrest and severe punishment when the lib/lab/cons are gone.
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