Thursday, March 06, 2008

ID Cards: Labour Lacks Cojones Over Compulsion

I remain an implacable opponent of ID cards. But one thing I do accept is that the only way they can have any real effect is if they are compulsory. What's the point of only a few people having them? I'm quite sure the government secretly agree with this and they would dearly like to make them compulsory. The trouble is, they don't have the balls to do it (Gott sei Dank). They say that only the House of Commons can make ID cards mandatory and they won't ask for a vote before the next general election. I bet they won't. They know it would be electoral suicide. It's quite clear that if they win the election, that's what they'll do, though, except I'm willing to bet it won't appear in their election manifesto.

Luckily there will hopefully be a Tory government after the next election and Home Sectretary David Davis will junk the whole sorry shambles of a scheme.

29 comments:

BNPELECTIONRESULTS said...

Do you ever get the feeling of they create a problem to then solve the problem when they wish to give us the solution anyway, but without the problem they created we would have never had accepted it.

Anonymous said...

Listening to the Home Secretary on the radio saying Identity Cards would protect against identity theft I couldn't help wondering how long it would be before an enterprising journalist managed to get him/herself a card in the name of a Minister.

Anonymous said...

An interesting example of the way party politics distorts good administration. In a sane world the government would say, 'On second thoughts this was a lousy idea, so we'll forget it.' But for party political reasons (no U-turns) they have to say, 'We will postpone this wonderful idea for a few years' and spend a few more millions treading water while they think of what to say next.

David Lindsay said...

It'll never work. Jacqui Smith should just forget about the whole thing.

strapworld said...

Iain,

After what Brown's counsel said in the High Court. The Labour Manifesto is dead in the water before it is launched.

Of course they will make it compulsory. You are absolutely correct there.

As a matter of interest did you know when Parliament passed the Road Traffic Act in the 30's the idea was that everyone would have to carry their driving licence. But as it only affected the upper classes in those days, they gave the five days grace to attend a police station of their choice to present their documents.

So Parliament, in those days, ensured that the police were lumbered with HORT1/2 enquiries.

Anonymous said...

Two awesome politicians have given us the words we need when dealing with the authorities over ID cards...

Margaret Thatcher 'No ! No ! No !'..

Rev Ian Paisley 'NEVER ! NEVER ! NEVER !'

Remember kids, Just Say No...

Anonymous said...

Love the title!

-Amanda

Madasafish said...

I listened to J Smith being interviewe today. ID cards data will not be online she says.

Now the whole point of ID cards is you can check the biometric data on the ID card versus the person - to check they match - and the database - to check the card has not had the biometrics altered.

So the card will not be checked against the database according to Ms Smith.

So what's the point? The card can be cloned and altered to fit another biometric signature.

She clearly has no comprehension OR - worse- they are going to spend £ billions - and not use it.

I kid you not. Could not organise an orgy in a brothel.. or.. she's just ignorant.

Unbelieveable...

On second thoughts. Typical incompetent.

Anonymous said...

Come clean Iain, do you object to newcomers to the country or those working in airports vulnerable to terrorism having to have secure ID with biometric details?

And you do realise I hope that you'll soon have to have a biometric passport if you want to visit the US.

btw you've missed out an "if" or, if you're honest, a "when" from "It's quite clear that they win the election"

Newmania said...

Indeed and another dimension emerged on this yesterday

"
Johny Wright said
Newmania - I know this is slightly off-topic, but I really don't think a Lib-Lab coalition is feasible in the current climate. The sticking point is going to be ID cards -

Newmanias replied
Johny Wrong …As mentioned the climb down is afoot and the talk of Lib Lab pacts is all over the New Statesman this week. You`ll learn and then you`ll be a Conservative.
Johny Wright said
Wow. Blast from the past. Nobody's called me that since primary school! What an amazingly original nickname to come up with ...
Newmania Said
The artist previously known as JOHNY WRONG and henceforth known as JOHNY DIFFERENTLY-RIGHT is directed to Jaqui Smiths announcement that citizens will be able to choose between having an ID card or a new biometric passport.
This will , of course only end up being ID cards but will provide the fig leaf required.

Cheerio DR


I wonder where Johny Differently-Right is now and I wonder what Clegg has been promised ….Foreign Secretary .?"

AethelBald, King of Wessex said...

The politics of fear layered over a strategic incompetence.

The fear of terrorism is the wedge in the crack. The fear of not getting a bank account will be used to coerce students.

The fact that they will lose the data because they simply do not understand the implications of securing it.

This is the same team that gave us Iraq. They are arrogant in the extreme and they match it with their ignorance.

They must be stopped. Can a bank not be persuaded to set up a Just-Say-No-To-ID-Cards recruitment drive in August?

Anonymous said...

I'm sure the next election is Brown's secret get out clause.

Yak40 said...

Cards and compulsion will come when EU decrees it, at the latest.

Anonymous said...

From all the interviews Jacqui Smith has been doing today saying the database won't be online (how does the stupid woman think it's going to work then?) then it seems like the woman supposedly in charge hasn't got a clue.

Anonymous said...

How exactly will airport workers and students be compelled to join the ID cards system?

I can't see the airline and trade unions accepting this requirement.

I can't see the banks turning away business because they don't have ID cards when no-one else does!

As for foreign non-EU workers: how can this survive an ECHR challenge?

The whole thing's a joke!

Anonymous said...

Iain, weren't you at university with Caroline Flint? I make no apology for plagiarising popbitch:

>> Thatched housing <<
Minister's friends tell hair-raising tales

A friend of Housing Minister Caroline Flint
claims that when she was a Students' Union
leader at University of East Anglia she did
the popular lefty women's thing at the time
and kept her pubic hair au natural. Such was
the density of her lower thatch, which can
be imagined from the luxuriant black barnet
on her head, and given the location of her
choice of tertiary education, she was known
as "Thetford Forest".

Little Black Sambo said...

Assuming, which perhaps we can, that the ID cards won't happen, what about passports and the national identity register? Will the Tories retain the National Identity and Passport "Service". Will they retain the new Stasi Interrogation Centres? I bet they will.

Newmania said...

Iain I `m sorry but having listened to La Smith you have missed the point .They are frit of a showdown so instead it will be done by subterfuge and increment . The foreigners first..( who will complain ?)...the students ( if they want their loan )..then the option...which commercial companies will use ,..... then finally ..COMPULSION.


This is the way we are governed ...never ask the wrong question at the wrong time and never never ask everyone at once.... Still its another foul smell to dangle around Labour`s neck at the GE.

There must be a solid assurance that there is no destination Compulsion and they are not , once again lying to the electorate ... Ha ha ha ha

asquith said...

I agree with everyone, ever, that the whole damn thing should be scrapped. I expressed admiration for Davis and Cameron over their civil libertarian stance:

http://hh-asquith.blogspot.com/2008/02/i-appreciate-david-davis-in-way.html

Though I do still think the LibDems are best on civil liberties, I must extend credit to the Tory front bench in opposing clunking fist's authoritarianism.

Vol Abroad said...

I'm one of those foreign workers. Like most changes to my status, I'm never told what to do and I suspect the same will happen with ID cards. I'm not clear I'm compliant with existing rules. I'm not trying to hide. I've lived here for over 10 years. I have a British husband, I have a British baby, a British mortgage and a job working in the British public sector.

Plus the ID cards for foreign workers is stupid, 'cause we already have to have passports to be here anyway.

Mostly Ordinary said...

Have to say when the Government said they would compel air-side workers to have a ID Cards I was somewhat shocked - don't the authorities already issue ID cards to workers in sensitive areas? I would expect them already have finger prints etc on record, maybe I just over estimated how seriously they take security.

Anonymous said...

Madasafish said...
"I listened to J Smith being interviewe today. ID cards data will not be online she says.

Now the whole point of ID cards is you can check the biometric data on the ID card versus the person - to check they match - and the database - to check the card has not had the biometrics altered."


The database doesn't need to be online. Subsets of the records on the database can be held locally, e.g. at Heathrow.

Anonymous said...

Asquith -

You are starting to make some very interesting and well-balanced comments on both this blog and you own.

Keep up the good work.

asquith said...

Maybe. But I might have one of my turns again and start making angry, incoherent posts. :)

Anonymous said...

ID cards will do nothing to prevent identity theft. On the contrary they will make it easier and more likely. Remember every family's details (on those 2 little discs) have been lost. Anyone getting hold of that information can legitimately get a person's birth certificate, passport etc, present themselves for fingerprinting and, hey presto, your teenage son's id has been stolen. The first you hear about it is when some EU arrest warrant turns up claiming that he's done something illegal in a country he's never been to. And how does he prove that he is himself? This scheme is so unworkable, so bound to fail, so bound to cause more problems than it could ever solve that it makes one despair at the utter stupidity and bad faith of those advocating it. My tip: renew your UK passport now (you get a full 10 years + 9 months unexpired time from the old one), if you have an Irish grandparent, get an Irish passport, open bank accounts for your children etc. And as for this rubbish about "easier" access to services: they'll only try and make it harder to access services we've all paid for in order to force us to get these cards. But, frankly, in a few years there'll be precious few services provided by the state we'll want to use anyway: no NHS dentists, can't see A&E refusing help to someone in an accident because they've no ID, are they really going to stop children going to school because their parents don't have an ID card? What else is there? This issue alone will make me for whoever will get Labour out. Where I live that means voting Tory even though my Labour MP is one of the few who has consistently voted against ID cards.

Anonymous said...

BC said...

"The database doesn't need to be online. Subsets of the records on the database can be held locally, e.g. at Heathrow."

So that will be hack proof then?

Multiple copies will be cost-effective and really, really secure?

Anonymous said...

Interesting, so far. I am obviously not main stream with the rest of you ( describe myself as small-c conservative,, can't realistically be other than that, living in Northern Ireland) - I am not particularly worried about an ID Card (I've nothing to hide). But why not incorporate it into the driver's licence - OK won't sweep up eeveryone but there would be advantages. I would like my drivers' icence, for example to contain details of my blood group, my organ donor wishes, my pacemaker details and for verification,, I don't mind biometric detaial being included. I am used to using my drivers licence as positive IDF, for example when taking commercial domestic flights, which I do every week. It's a damn sight morre convenient that a passport. And I also do a lot of consultancy work at airports - EVERY airport worker is subjeect to a Criminal Records Check (CRC) before being employed and getitng his/her airport pass. There must be a sensible solution in there somewhere

Anonymous said...

Anon 12.48 pm said ....

"So that will be hack proof then?"

I didn't say that it would be. I was making the point that it doesn't need to be online.

Anonymous said...

BC said...

"I didn't say that it would be. I was making the point that it doesn't need to be online."

So, it would be updated by postal deliveries?