If you ever had any doubts about the wisdom of open primaries just read THIS take of woe from Alex Hilton on LabourHome. He recounts in graphic detail the internal machinations in Barrow in Furness over selecting a successor to former Labour Cabinet Minister John Hutton. I was going to say it's the usual tale of command and control Labour Party stitch ups. But it's worse than that.
The fact of the matter is that if Labour followed the Tory lead and used the open primary process, this sort of stitch up would surely be avoided.
And why is it that Labour seems determined to select party apparatchiks for very reasonable seat that becomes available?
Whereas, with the Tories, the constituency chairman can vet the list of three male, three female and two reserve candidates and parachute in his/her own. That person then goes through.
ReplyDeleteIain,
ReplyDeleteUnfotunately I just read something similar on ConHome regarding Macclesfield.
When will you lot learn?
"And why is it that Labour seems determined to select party apparatchiks for very reasonable seat that becomes available?"
ReplyDeleteI assume you mean "every". So presumably you can name some recent examples?
This perception that you can parachute people into safe Labour seats is misguided.
In fact sometimes a perceived endorsement from the centre is a hindrance rather than help.
Any member selecting candidates will tell you this and from the 2 selections I have been involved in both produced candidates who won it on the day and came from nowhere really.
Positive discrimination is still discrimination and is utterly shameful. Shame on the Labour party.
ReplyDeleteSack Harman, Labour. It is all her fault.
'every reasonable seat.'
ReplyDelete..because the Labour Party is terrified of internal rebellion ?
because the Labour Party has ceased to exist.
It is a late Party.
It is deceased.
All these machinations are doomed as Barrow & Furness will go back to the Tories at the General Election.
ReplyDeleteIts reading like a carbon copy of Hartlepool in 1990 when Mandelson came to town...
ReplyDelete... and my father was in the unfortunate position of being the local front runner at the time.
You (conservative) are both (labour) as bad as each other.
ReplyDeleteA parliament of independents would be far more preferable.
Have to say since you became a wannabe MP your blog has gone downhill toeing the party line.
Oh my God - BBC2 are running a programme about the North South Divide -- and the experts they have unearthed are John and Pauline Prescott.
ReplyDeleteYes that John and Pauline. Its good to see the BBC looking after their own.
Its Watching the England match for me.
Anonymous, toeing the party line?
ReplyDeletehttp://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/07/good-idea-at-time.html
Just do a quick trawl over the last three months and you will see that you are talking rubbish.
Would the cure look like this?
ReplyDeleteMPs Fight Back
I don't think so Ian. But as your blog is you then maybe you are too close to see the subtle changes in it since you became a potential Tory MP.
ReplyDeleteOther than that, all due respect to you for allowing negative criticism on your blog, swomething that you have always done.
Anonymous, well, it's all about perception I suppose. I haven't set out to do anything differently, but it's possible that subconsciously I may have been a bit more careful. Who knows!!
ReplyDeleteAnd why is it that Labour seems determined to select party apparatchiks for very reasonable seat that becomes available?
ReplyDeleteIf you don't know the answer to that, you've obviously been asleep since 1995.
You're such a fair-minded person, Iain, and so open to criticism of youself and any justified criticism of the Tory Party
ReplyDeletePerhaps the next time you're a fellow guest on Sky newspaper review with Baroness Billingham, you could persuade her to follow your excellent example.
Yes, she can be a bit, er, unthinkingly partisan, can't she?! Although last time I was on with her she was, to be fair, better!
ReplyDelete"Although last time I was on with her she was, to be fair, better!"
ReplyDeleteIs that better as in more partisan, or better as in less partisan?
Well, this is party politics today. It doesn't really matter if it is NuLabour or BlueLabour, it's all the same.
ReplyDeleteI do despair.
Bindun in Thamesmead http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6169159.ece
ReplyDeleteSorry, can't see why a Conservative orientated blog would be urging Labour to up their game - bizarre !
ReplyDeleteDoes not compute.
Yes, the Tories and their "Open Primaries". Hilarious. Do stop trying to imply that you're participating in a U.S.-style nomination fight. The candidates are chosen by the party, and all the losers will move on to repeat the process in other seats.
ReplyDeleteIt's really just a way of deciding which seat you're going to be assigned to.
parliamentary candidate, prospective parliamentary candidate.
ReplyDeleteIntelligent man!
I see here an intelligent candidate. Damn and blast his goggly eyes for having an education!
All this nonsense could be avoided if you changed the voting system to STV in multi-seat constituencies. And let the voters actually decide. You know, for the novelty of it.
ReplyDeleteBedford's "open primary" held by the Tories was a farce and their candidate is likely to lose the mayoral byelection today
ReplyDeleteI am not saying that this is the right way for the Labour Party to select candidates it isn't. Open primaries may be the way forward - and indeed Milliband has spoken in favour of them for the Labour Party.
ReplyDeleteBut perhaps Mr Dale you should concentrate on the selection process within the Conservative Party where open primaries are still a rare phenomenon - and if you want to say that the Party leadership leader doesn't play an active role in candidate selection you would be lying - as you well know to your own cost. You never know that you may even have some impact - because the one thing of which I'm certain you will not hav a acintilla of impact on the Labour side.
Of course a less generous interpretaion would be that you are just playing negative politics, in which you never apparently indulge according to your open primary website.
Blairites v Brownites.
ReplyDeleteCan Labour have some £££ to run these wonderful primaries please.
ReplyDeleteSadly, no-one will adopt STV because they know (as the Irish politicians constantly complain) that it makes them TOO accountable to the electorate.
ReplyDeleteBut yes, with STV, open primaries are irrelevant. Pre-election debate, however, becomes extremely important and interesting, because candidates have to convince people to vote for THEM, rather than just party.
You are wrong on Open Primaries Iain, trendy though it is to praise them at the moment.
ReplyDeleteTo give voters a clear choice at the election it is for Parties to put forward representatives of their viewpoint and for the voters to decide which viewpoint and person they like on the day.
To involve voters earlier in the process of selecting the parties candidates merely makes the choice of candidates less clearly defined and therefore gives all the voters a reduced range of choices at the election.
Why would someone who is a socialist choose the best and most articulate conservative? He/She would naturally choose the one that mostly closely representated their socialist viewpoint. Candidates know this so tone down their views and therefore everyone is the loser. Blazing honesty in front of ones own supporters/members, clearly articulated views at the election and then the public really have a proper choice.
Another example of american politics not suiting the UK.
Despite all that good luck at Bracknell, watch out for the Communist in the front row!
Iain - re: party hacks getting safe seats.
ReplyDeletePresumably you don't mean either David Cameron (former Michael Howard spad) or George Osborne (former spad), William Hague (Leon Brittain's spad), Greg Clark (ex CCHQ), David Willetts (ex Spad) or Andrew Lansley (ex CCHQ).
You've been very quiet about the Bedford mayoral election which is being held today.
ReplyDeleteI wonder why, after your involvement in the 'stunningly successful' Tory Open Primary!
The two Crewe and Nantwich selections to fight the by-election and 2010 prove Iain's case.
ReplyDeleteBoth shoed in, with all outside runners telling the world they lost as the CV went in.
Check out the current runner and ask how?
Now who was the Labour MP who pulled the Toff stunt and was caught red-handed?
Ahhhh, I know, it was he who was parachuted into his seat as the absolute runaway favourite was 'suspended' minutes before the selection.
Funny enough, all local Councillors were rejected on the long list!
I'm afraid that Labour's selection machinations do not seem very dissimilar to those being practised by CCHQ on behalf of the Cameroons right now Iain. Pot calling the kettle balck imho.
ReplyDeleteCare to comment on the situation in Berwickshire Roxburgh and Selkirk Iain?.
ReplyDeleteIain, you mean the open primary process where locals interested in standing for the seat are often denied by London A-listers? See what's happening in Macclesfield and everywhere else. I'm afraid the tory party has its own problems..
ReplyDeleteThe Tory "Open" Primaries for London Mayor and Totnes PPC both were arranged so that a popular candidate (TV celeb, local lady Dr with Eurosceptic views) faced failing apparatchiks. (sp)
ReplyDeleteLooks like the difference is that the Tories are PR foremost, and get Johnsonitus. Not nice precious . . .
Sometimes I think the US system, whereby a politician is expected to have had a home in the electoral district for some time has definite advantages. AFAIK it's not a legal requirement in the US (although itmay be in some areas), but it is part of public expectation.
ReplyDeleteThe only problem is you cannot then expect the kind of expertise you need in senior ministers (solved in the US by the usual separate executive at almost all levels of government)
John Hutton...
ReplyDelete'Gordon Brown will make a f****** awful prime minister'
As I live in this unfortunate constituency I am not impressed with the choice. A callow youth who appears to share Butcher Blair's dentist or a Huntin' shootin' Tory from somewhere. Guess it's the Lib/Dems unless we are offered the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi again but he'd probably cream the expenses. Martin Bell perchance? He could live in the Lakes!
ReplyDelete