Thursday, April 30, 2009

Bishop of Rochester: Don't Look to Bishops for Moral Lead

Yesterday I attended a round table lunch at the Centre for Policy Studies. To be honest, it was a little intimidating. There were about twenty people there including Maurice Saatchi, David Butler, Janet Daley, the Bishop of London, the Bishop of Rochester, Sir Samuel Brittan, Peter Kellner, Theresa May, Tessa Keswick, Sir John Egan, Stryker McGwire from Newsweek to name but a few. The subject under discussion was THE FUTURE OF CAPITALISM. It was a lively ninety minutes. I listened and said very little, apart from upbraiding Tory MP John Hayes for his dismissal of the virtues of liberal Conservatism. I was very impressed by the Bishop of Rochester. In fact, he came out with the quote of the lunch...

If you want a moral lead, don't look to the bishops. I certainly wouldn't.

I didn't dare press him further...
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25 comments:

  1. Bert RustleApril 30, 2009 8:50 am

    The future of capitalism is dependent upon the future of law enforcementIn a interview with William Black The Crisis of Our Democracy: Corruption in the Financial Markets and Obama's Failure to Reform he outlines the industrial scale of corruption across elected representatives, presidential nominees and bankers.

    It is highly alarming and I currently do not have any reason to assume the position is any different in the UK.

    For a related video interview: William K. Black, author of The Best Way to Rob a Bank Is to Own One: How Corporate Executives and Politicians Looted the Savings & Loan Industry is interviewed on video by PBS (akin to a BBC of the USA) regarding the industrial scale fraud within the Ruling Class which has precipitated the current financial situation hereThis is the only program I have seen which in clear and measured terms sets out the situation. In my opinion.

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  2. Working Class ToryApril 30, 2009 9:00 am

    HA

    what on earth happened to Bishops believe their own.. beliefs. For God's sake they're supposed to believe in the supremacy of God and what have you. This is nonsense and guy ought to be reprimanded thoroughly.

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  3. Roger ThornhillApril 30, 2009 9:09 am

    Why do they allow the intentional distortion of words, Iain?

    What we have is NOT "Capitalism" but "Corporatism" and hefty Statism. We have a monopoly on the issuing of money. We have Taxpayer funded protection for Banks via deposit insurance (and don't let anyone kid you this is about protecting savers - it means banks could be even more risky in their behaviour instead of keeping a prudent reserve in cash). It is about regulation like BASEL II (one of the causes of the credit crunch as banks hoarded capital due to the regular re-valuation of their assets under that scheme).


    And now they want one system worldwide and no hiding place for money, so when they screw up (and they WILL) we will all be stuffed but have no option but be hit by their "medicine" like Quantitative Easing (theft).


    Britain should become a Tax Haven. Wealth and the wealthy would flood in and companies will domicile. To blazes with their OECD-engineered "normalisation", all part of this Fabian one world cock up.

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  4. johnAKAmarkApril 30, 2009 9:11 am

    The C of E has embraced the new state religion of environmentalism - after years of emptying Anglican Christianity of any meaning in order that all viewpoints may be included and to appease the PC lobby. The excited eco-prattling of Rowan Williams show that he and his ilk have finally found 'damnation they can believe in'

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  5. ShaunApril 30, 2009 9:13 am

    How much money did the CoE lose in Iceland's banking collapse? And what has the crash wiped off their property portfolio?

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  6. Wrinkled WeaselApril 30, 2009 9:18 am

    Too right. Most of them are as bad as politicians. Michael Nazir-Ali is getting out because they are a bunch of wafty liberals who believe in nothing. His core beliefs - the irrelevant stuff like the centrality of Christ's teaching - did not sit well with the Muslim appeasers.


    WV outch

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  7. PlatoApril 30, 2009 9:20 am

    Reminds me of the Yes Minister episode about bishoprics.

    The politicians want to do God and the bishops want to do politics :)

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  8. RaedwaldApril 30, 2009 9:45 am

    'Put not your trust in princes, nor in mortal man ..' holds true for the barons of the Church as well as her princes. Bishops are chosen for their administrative ability these days; holiness is optional. For advice on asset and portfolio management and HR matters, consult a Bishop. For morality, I've always found whores to have a highly developed moral sense.

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  9. Dick the PrickApril 30, 2009 9:57 am

    Been anywhere near Trollope Iain or is this another one of those times when readers look to the skies and move on? Stryker McGwire's a dude - proper dude alert. Did you do the international gesture of dude? (this mainly consists of a simple nod whilst saying dude).

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  10. Simon LewisApril 30, 2009 10:10 am

    Glad to see you commented on liberal Conservatism. I hope that is the brand of government we will see if the Tories get in next year.

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  11. Simon GardnerApril 30, 2009 10:57 am

    Did you have time to check whether Janet Daley had no reflection in a mirror?

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  12. AnonymousApril 30, 2009 11:16 am

    Perhaps he should have said "Don't look to ANGLICAN Bishops for Moral Lead"? The Roman Catholic Church seems to be quite happy do so despite all the resultant criticism.

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  13. AnonymousApril 30, 2009 11:17 am

    Some of the Bishops are very keen on Sharia law in the UK, but won't mention the economic genocide of the Coptic Christian minority in Egypt that is just about to be applied.
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article6193785.ece

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  14. John HuntApril 30, 2009 11:39 am

    The Bishop of Rochester's comment is hardly surprising when Dr. Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, leader of the Church of England and the Anglican community worldwide lends support to the introduction of elements of Sharia Law into the U.K.

    He knows Sharia Law is incompatible with the secular basis of law in Britain that has been achieved and maintained on years of historic struggle, into the very fabric of our culture and tradition.

    Further, he knows that under his so-called leadership, traditional and loyal Anglicans in Britain being driven out of the C of E in droves, thus emptying the churches, rendering them redundant and making them vacant for conversion to Islamic mosques.

    I have long thought that removal of the moral backbone is the pre-requisite for ordination to the Bishopric in the C of E.

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  15. badmanApril 30, 2009 11:42 am

    The Bishop of Rochester's main beef against his fellow Anglican bishops is that they are not anti gay enough.

    Which is remarkable, because they are pretty anti gay by the standards of the rest of British society.

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  16. Little Black SamboApril 30, 2009 11:48 am

    Anon: most of the present lot of RC bishops are as bad as the C of E ones., but whereas the Pope will set about clearing them out, there is no one to do it for the C of E, whose bishops are now a self-perpetuating and self-degrading caste.

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  17. UnsworthApril 30, 2009 12:03 pm

    Well he's right, of course. The Church of England has failed to give a moral lead for at least the past 20 years, and possibly since the Reformation.

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  18. wonderfulforhisageApril 30, 2009 12:31 pm

    "Maurice Saatchi, David Butler, Janet Daley, the Bishop of London, the Bishop of Rochester, Sir Samuel Brittan, Peter Kellner, Theresa May, Tessa Keswick, Sir John Egan, Stryker McGwire from Newsweek to name but a few."

    No Miss Piggy ("moi pretentious")?

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  19. The Church MouseApril 30, 2009 1:16 pm

    I've dropped Bishop Michael a note to see if he'll clarify his comments. If he responds, I'll post what he says.

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  20. UnknownApril 30, 2009 1:55 pm

    Always excepting the excellent Cranmer of course!

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  21. Terry HamblinApril 30, 2009 2:30 pm

    Michael Nazir Ali has just been forced out by the liberal establishment of the C of E, but he represents the views of most of those who sit in the pews. While the C of E has declined there has been a massive growth of independent churches which hold the same core beliefs that he does. Don't buy into the lie that the church is dead in the UK; it is stll vibrant, but it meets in different venues.

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  22. StanApril 30, 2009 2:39 pm

    Is the topic of this post about the future of capitalism or the future of Anglicanism?

    For the former - Roger Thornhill got it just about right. It's my belief that capitalism works very well within a national context, but once it becomes globalised - well, a globalised economic system requires a global governance. You can't have a democracy without a demos so the only alternative is an appointed government of technocrats - hence corporatism.

    As for the latter - well, different people have different views on the role of the Anglican Church in provding moral guidance - personally, I don't think it is the place of the church to decide for government, but it is certainly their job to provide moral certainty for their followers - something which the leadership of the Anglican Church increasingly fail to do.

    One thing I'd ask everyone to bear in mind is that in the absence of an omnipresent God to place restraint on immoral behaviour the only alternative is an omnipresent state.

    I know which I prefer.

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  23. Simon GardnerApril 30, 2009 3:22 pm

    The whole ‘god’ thing is completely barking as increasing numbers of Brits have realised.

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  24. badmanApril 30, 2009 8:17 pm

    Terry Hamblin - Nazir Ali wasn't "forced out" by any one - he got bored with being a bishop, knew he had reached a ceiling in terms of further promotion (having assiduously but unsuccessfully put himself forward as a candidate for Archbishop of Canterbury when Rowan Williams got that job, and not being able to compete with Semtamu for Archbishop of York) and resigned - which came as a complete surprise to everyone, liberals and conservatives alike.

    His views are not really in line with anyone much. He is more Anglo Catholic than the dominant conservative wing of the Church of England, which tends to be evangelical. And he is a conservative among Anglo Catholics, of whom Rowan Williams is the arch liberal representative.

    He was almost alone in boycotting the Lambeth Conference because of his displeasure at the US Anglicans electing a gay man as bishop, and that is the only reason he has found allies among American conservatives with pots of money who are working to split the Anglican Communion on liberal-conservative lines. But he is a solitary figure even in that camp.

    I don't think you can say his views match those of the "man in the pew". He is an interesting, but not on any view a mainstream or persecuted figure.

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  25. The Church MouseMay 01, 2009 11:25 am

    +Michael has responded to the Mouse. I've posted his note on my blog.

    http://churchmousepublishing.blogspot.com/2009/04/response-from-nasir-ali.html

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