Alex Salmond & Margaret Thatcher: The Truth

I hadn't quite realised what a stink my interview with Alex Salmond had caused in Scotland until I heard that the First Minister himself had called a phone in on BBC Radio Scotland to clarify his remarks. You can listen to it HERE. In the interview with me he said...

ID: Ten years ago, the Conservatives were seen as a terrible enemy by the SNP, and they saw you as very left-wing. It seems to me that you have tried to change that, and create a big tent for the SNP.
AS: I suppose I have tried to bring the SNP into the mainstream of Scotland. We have a very competitive economic agenda. Many business people have warmed towards the SNP. We need a competitive edge, a competitive advantage - get on with it, get things done, speed up decision making, reduce bureaucracy. The SNP has a strong social conscience, which is very Scottish in itself. One of the reasons Scotland didn't take to Lady Thatcher was because of that. We didn't mind the economic side so much. But we didn't like the social side at all.
ID: Doesn't that illustrate the problem, that Scotland is seen as having quite a big public sector and, as the country of Adam Smith, it is no longer seen as the country of enterprise?
AS: I think that betrays Adam Smith. He was not just a friend of economics. He was a moral philosopher. Margaret Thatcher could have only ever read the Penguin edition of Wealth of Nations and she missed out the moral sentiments. I would absolutely defend the reputation of Adam Smith against the Adam Smith Institute. I said to Eamonn Butler [Deputy Director of the ASI], if Adam Smith could sue, you'd be in real trouble.

Labour has seized on the highlighted passage and called on Alex Salmond to apologise. It is astonishing that even eighteen years after she left office Margaret Thatcher still dominates much of our political discourse. Quite how Labour has managed to spin Salmond's remarks about Thatcher in the way that it has is quite astonishing - but the Scottish media has such a Labour bias it makes English newspapers look positively balanced by comparison. Every single Scottish media outlet is biased against the SNP. A point I made in an unpublished part of the interview...

ID It must be a relief to have got through the first year with a reputation for competence.
AS It was a desirable objective. As you probably have noticed, I am not short of confidence, so relief is the wrong phrase, but I was determined that that should be done. So much so that I banned their holidays last Summer and said look, you’re Cabinet Ministers, make your mark. And they did.
ID My point is that the Scottish media is against the SNP and apart from the Labour Party most other people in politics have said quite nice things about you.
AS If you get complimented by your critics then that is better than just being complimented by your friends.

Anyone who seriously thinks that Alex Salmond has turned into an admirer of Margaret Thatcher must want their heads read. As he has been quick to point out, it was Gordon Brown who invited her to Number Ten, so it’s a bit rich for Labour to make hay with his remarks!

When one does an In Conversation interview like this, it has to be edited. The original transcript ran to 6,500 words, whereas the version which appeared in the magazine was less than half that. I have just gone back and checked against the original transcript of the conversation and was relieved to find it is an entirely accurate report of what Alex said. Here, just for the record is the unedited version...

ID I perceive that the SNP has changed a lot in the last ten years. The Conservatives were seen as a terrible enemy by you and the SNP was seen to be a very left wing party by the Conservatives. It seems to me that you have copied Bill Clinton – I’ll be careful where I go with this analogy – and tried to create a big tent for the SNP, so you can attract ex Conservative voters who had previously felt put off by some of the more left wing ideas of the SNP.
AS I suppose I have tried to bring the SNP into the mainstream of Scotland. We have a very competitive economic agenda. Many businesspeople have warmed towards the SNP. We need a competitive edge, a competitive advantage. That side of SNP politics – get on with it, get things done, speed up decision making, reduce bureaucracy. The SNP has a strong, beating social conscience, which is very Scottish in itself. One of the reasons Scotland didn’t take to Lady Thatcher was because of that. It didn’t mind the economic side so much. But we didn’t like the social side at all. One of the most famous phrases in Scottish history is the ‘Community of the realm’ – I used it earlier. This idea that there is a community of interest stretching across the population. It’s a very Scottish concept and Scotland doesn’t like people who regale against it.
ID Doesn’t that illustrate the problem that Scotland is seen as having quite a big public sector, a bit too much of the Nanny State, and as the country of Adam Smith it is no longer seen as the country of enterprise. Or am I betraying English prejudices by even daring to suggest such a thing?
AS I think you are betraying Adam Smith. He was not just a friend of economics. He was a moral philosopher. Margaret Thatcher had only ever read the Penguin edition of Wealth of Nations and she missed out the moral sentiments. I would absolutely defend the reputation of Adam Smith against the Adam Smith Institute.
ID You’re a better man than I am.
AS I said to Eamonn Butler [Deputy Director of the ASI], if Adam Smith could sue, you’d be in real trouble.

You can read the whole interview HERE.