You may have seen Ann Widdecombe on the
Tonight with Trevor McDonald programme recently, where she ventured onto sink estates to talk to hoodies. It appears that the family she stayed with overnight have been hounded out of their home after having had their front door set on fire. I hope that the TV company have ensured they have been properly rehoused. What a society we live in.
I saw the tail end of the programme and I found it fascinating. It also showed what a thoughtful person Miss Widdecombe is, contrary to her media-presented "nasty" image.
ReplyDeleteThe problems seen in these estates is a symptom of the problems we have - the estates aren't the root cause of the social problems so Blunkett's "knock-em-down" idea won't solve the underlying issues.
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ReplyDelete10:40am ref
mr Nice , put in a houseing team to threaten to throw them all off the estate until somebody coughs up, not put it down to the times we are in, these toerags get away with it beacause Nice people like you rollover
anonymous:
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure where you would put people thrown off the sink estates - surely the reason that they are there is because there is nowhere else for them. Not many people would choose to live on a sink estate!
Bad housing is not the root cause of anti-social behaviour - poor education , lack of ambition and bad parenting are all contributors.
Part of this problem could be solved by the re-introduvtion of national service.
ReplyDeleteConscript the young people at age 16, unless they recieve notice of furrther education.
All colleges and sixthform schools would have to supply regular attendance records of pupils and any falling below a certain level would face conscription.
This would force these yobs into education or the army,at least until the age of 18.
It would also split the gangs and instill at least a modicum of disciplin.
After al the army would not have to worry about their human rights or civil liberties when they step out of line.
ed said
ReplyDelete11:17
In lot of these so called sink estates ,90% of the households , the houses clean and well looked after , the people respectable ,the council /housing association put the scumbags the druggies in the same area, thinking that a bit of respect may rub onto these scumbags, we have plenty of now filled in rubbish tips put a fence around and put some tents up ,and let them get on with it , if they yell they had enough ,let them come back into society
The reintroduction of conscription has often been raised as as a possible answer to the hooligan element in our society. Until recently I would not have agreed as I can clearly remember being hostile to the thought myself, but was saved by its abolition months before my call-up. Society has changed so much for the worse and the out-of-control element are getting even worse. With the news today that we spend less than Bulgaria on defence, it makes me wonder if the time isn't right to use some of these young thugs as cannon fodder. Maybe they might come back from an armed conflict with a greatly reduced ego.
ReplyDelete12:11 Said
ReplyDeleteWhy pass the buck to the military what have they done to you , they want real people.
It is the odd house in these estates that has the idiots who spoil it for the rest.
ReplyDeleteDon't provide 'social' housing to such people and stop the benefits.
I think they should have stopped council house swaps years ago.
ReplyDeleteThis has only alowed extended families to take over and force out good families from some estates. we will never get to the bottom of this problem untill the local hoods are taken out and dealt with.
I believe that the Dutch Government has the right idea for dealing with these anti-social families.
ReplyDeleteThey are evicted from their homes and rehoused in suitably converted shipping containers in the arse-end of an industrial estate and are monitored.
If their behaviour improves they may apply to be re-housed in a more suitable location if not, that's where they stay.
The idea seems to have some merits.
Throwing the feckless wasters out is indeed the answer, I feel. As to the bleat "nowhere else for them"...well they should have thought of that before.
ReplyDeleteThey lack the perception of consequence and no surprise considering how they are not arrested, evicted, punished but still get paid welfare and a roof.
Once the word gets out that it is "reform or eviction" with no recourse to other state alternatives (the "duty of care" nonsense is another welfarist lunacy) then I think many rogues will reform and good luck to them. Of the hard core prison awaits sooner or later, so may as well make it sooner and cut crime.
Had a similar discussion with the Mrs this morning concerning the amount of graffiti appearing on local bus shelters and road signs. This upsets her greatly. The police and council appear to be completely ineffective or plain unwilling to deal with it. We concluded that snatch squads to catch the indivuals concerned and public birching of same was the most cost effective and likely successful way to go.
ReplyDeleteI lived in Indonesia some years ago. There had been a high incident of theft in an area of Northern Sumatra. This took a dramatic downturn when bodies of the gang concerned started washing up on the beaches. A bit extreme but the basic tenet holds good. Word soon gets around.
I live in an area of the country which has just been designated by Blair's regime as Charva City no 37. and there are many such problems here. Local councils are at last starting to go the distance with some of these anti-social misfits and evictions are happening. Unfortunately this is after being given a Reduced Tenancy Order, followed by an Acceptable Behaviour Contract, then court proceedings to repossess. In other words a lengthy procedure, yet the government would rather throw maoney at Louise Casey than increase police manpower!
ReplyDeleteThe people in these so called sink estates are decent hardworking people ,they want to live their lives just as your middle class does
ReplyDeleteThey have every right to do that,they do pay taxes and obey the now many laws ,if the the Nice stopped putting everybody into the same basket and helped the police and not hindered them, but all they've done is give the scumbags rites and forgotten the decent people , if you take these scumbags rites away and give them back when they agree to rejoin society
NOT Military Service
ReplyDeletebut something else from the 1950's:
a school leaving age of 14.
-Those who WANT to learn in School, stay, those who want to be grown up and leave what they see as nonsense can go SO LONG as they pass an exam showing they can read, write and do sums.
Thus an exam at 14, to gain the right to leave school would impose a discipline on the most disruptive - they're the ones who hate school and want to leave.
These extra youngsters in the work force would then reduce the need for immigration. The government could then guarantee 2 free years of education for them at any time in the future, when they grow up they may decide they missed out.
Shipping containers, eh ? And there is a handy supply of those somewhere off the Devon coast, just as we speak !
ReplyDeleteTalk about killing two birds...
anonymous 2:48 and others who have expressed the same thoughts - yes, but where do you find the will in socialist/communist Britain that has made Cherie a fortune since her husband signed the absurd "human rights" act into British law?
ReplyDeleteI like the Dutch solution mentioned above. I would give them a bare level of comfort - heating up to 60 degrees, say. Warm, but not hot, water in the bathrooms. I would also give them a curfew. Lock the industrial estate up at 10 p.m. say. If there are able-bodied people in the dwelling, stop their welfare payments. They are not entitled for a share of the fruits of other people's labour.
Increase the police presence.
No one will die. No one will get sick. People want to survive. They'll find a way, and they can't all be out burgling and mugging. Some will be driven to take a job.
tone made me do it - he's a bad influence - I do agree with reducing the school-leaving age to 14 or 15. I also think the idea of having to sit for an exam to show you are mature enough to leave school at this age would, as you suggest, impose some self-discipline on people who never learned discipline at home.
ReplyDelete"Reduce the need for immigration" ... well, I am not convinced that there was ever any need for immigration, given the high level of welfare dependence among muslim immigrants. But it would certainly reduce the need for obfuscation and the use of smoke of mirrors by one Tony Blair or whoever.
Local Authorities have a statutory obligation to house.
ReplyDeleteCouncil housing should be let on a 3-year lease and subject to renewal according to defined criteria
tomtom 3:37
ReplyDeleteDoes the law state how long the statutory obligation to house last's ,give them a minimum lease and a threat that they can go and find there own if they carry on.
Unlike us 'lucky' people who live or work in Harlow, they obviously weren't blessed with a Respect Zone and Respect hit Squad to sort out the yobs.
ReplyDeleteWe don't have any more of an anti social behaviour problem here than anywhere else now - though we never actually did, Of course - and we've far less of a yob problem than many areas.
So, what magic dust are the Respect hit squad sprinkling on Harlow?
**it's A Spot The Ball competition!**
The hit squad feel that if they keep our yobs occupied searching for 12 balls hidden in Harlow town centre's shops, the anti social problem (that we don't have much of anyway) is solved. Hey Presto!
The grand prizes are ipods and £20 - just in case you're tempted to rush off to search for our balls, Iain.
Just in case any of you yobs out there are about to rush off after these balls, the hit squad ask you to 'Please don't touch (nick?) them - because that's not respectful, is it?
If you're one of those cynics who cannot understand why Harlow got this extra funding while strife torn areas, such as Hackney, for example, didn't - don't be so nasty.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with us being a precariously balanced nulab marginal with a government minister as MP.
4:21 PM
ReplyDeleteOne wouldn't dream of thinking such thing's ,dribble dribble only taxpayers money, oh hum
The thugs are getting away with it and zero tolerence is one direction. moving the nice guys is only letting the issue stay and blind eyes do not result in challenging behaviour. these little things need our support to change the big issues.
ReplyDeleteI agree with all of the splendid ideas above for killing and maiming anti-social people.
ReplyDeleteEqually unrealistic, unfortunately, is the return of National Service.
Did anyone see the recent TV series, "Bad Lad's Army"? A number of useless teenage yobs underwent several weeks of army training under a bunch of tough NCOs. They were obviously offered inducements to do it, but they endured genuine training and boy, did they suffer.
Remarkably, most got through and it was fascinating to see the change in their attitudes and behaviour.
It would take too long to explain how the army training works in instilling pride and discipline in young men, but it does work and would be particularly apposite for delinquents and lazy good-for-nothings.
Do watch the programme if it's repeated.
bebopper said...
ReplyDelete5:44 pm
Does that mean we could send them for training in Helmand province
or get the army to return here to help train them , hmm I like the latter
The first thing to do with this growing army of chavs is to stop their welfare benefits after 3 months. At the moment we taxpayers are paying these wasters to hang around shopping centres making a nuisance of themselves.
ReplyDeleteStop their JSA/invalidity benefit, or whatever else they're claiming. Make em go to work if they want money. The bonus would be that we wouldn't have to import labour from abroad.
If they still refuse to work and think they can fund themselves through crime (most are at it already) make the police and courts come down hard on them.
Britain's growing army of anti-social arseholes have had it far too easy for too long. What is required now is a strong dose of discipline. Of course, there's no chance New Labour will dare do any of this but would the Tories?
The alternative is to let matters become increasingly worse until the law-abiding majority are screaming for strong medicine from the likes of the BNP.
You are all missing the point.
ReplyDeleteA decent family have been hounded out of their family home, because they were willing to stand up and be counted. I feel very sorry for the. Like many famillies they are trapped on housing estates surrounded by a minority of people who behave in an anti social way.
It was not that long ago that the Conservatives polled up to a 1/3rd of the vote on inner London council estates - sadly these estates have gone downhill, some decent hard working famillies managed to move out, leaving behind those trapped - many being the elderly parents of successful children who live in the suburbs.
Spare a thought for that family, who are now having to endure temporary accomodation and have effectively lost their home.
Yes, 11:58
ReplyDeleteThey're enduring temporary accommodation. Which means they don't go to sleep in their own home. They don't wake up in their own home. They don't take their shower or bath in their own home. They're not cooking in their own kitchen with their own things. They're not watching telly on their own couch and chairs. They're not stepping out of their own front door. What a bloody nightmare these chavs have imposed on normal people! And the socialists want to break up society by favouring the aggressors.