A certain D Davis of this parish could be forgiven for looking a bit smug at this morning's Inner Shadow Cabinet meeting. During the leadership campaign he refused to bow to demands from the right to give a firm guarantee to withdraw from the EPP Group in the European Parliament. Not because he didn't want to, not because he agreed with the aims of the EPP, but because he could see no way of doing it without reneging on a firm and binding commitment that Liam Fox and Michael Howard had made only a year earlier.
Even when Liam Fox made the same commitment as David Cameron to boost his flagging campaign, and when Dr Fox's little cubs went around spreading their poison about DD's supposed europhilic credentials, DD didn't cave in to a demand that would have undoubtedly won him the support of more MPs on the right. I remember one day a whole stream of MPs filing into his office to persuade him to reverse his position. He didn't, because he knew it would all end in tears. And it has. William Hague has confirmed that he has "parked" the commitment to withdraw from the EPP and that negotiations with other parties have so far failed. The Shadow Foreign Secretary will now adopt the original Davis position of aiming to withdraw at the time of the next European elections.
I have little doubt that the readers of ConservativeHome will be in a state of fury this morning and seeking to heap derision and scorn on Messers Hague and Cameron. Don't get me wrong, I would also want to withdraw from the EPP at the first opportunity. Its European policy stands for everything I am against - the constitution, the euro and more integration. But Liam Fox signed a contract and if you can't see an honourable or practical way of withdrawing from it, it's wise to think of the longer term rather than the short term political gains it might get you from your own supporters.
The only other point I want to make is this. Last night I had an MSN conversation with a friend whose support switched from Davis to Cameron during the leadership contest at least partly because of the EPP issue. He was spitting blood. I sought to calm him down by pointing out that this issue is only of interest to core Conservatives and means nothing to voters out there. There are a few thousand people in the Conservative village for whom it is a hugely important factor, but out there in the real world if you asked voters on the street what the EPP was, probably only one in a thousand would know. So people should calm down, put a cold wet towel across their foreheads and get on with their life and not throw their toys out of the Tory pram. Is that too much to ask?
Where you completely miss the point, Iain, is that the number one issue here is not now whether the Tories leave the EPP or not. It is whether a commitment from David Cameron is bankable or not. The firestorm of protest overnight that greeted the EPP rumours has, I hope, forced the party leadership to realise what is at stake here. You should not let your loyalty to DD's EPP position (which may have been the right one) get in the way of understanding that.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it funny Iain that some people in here say I've made it up about two possible defectors from the Tories to Labour.
ReplyDeleteI now know that both of them are MEP's and Cameron and Hague have been very busy bribing them to stay.
They are definitely absconding to Labour and so the story goes, are taking two other MP's from Westminster with them.They are busy talking with elements within the Labour NEC.
My source is very accurate up to now and fits in with everything being reported in the wider media.
Cameron will back down when it comes to the EEP. Hague is a disaster, he led you to oblivion and Cameron has the choice to follow his lead or his own.
'Dave' the socialist is many things but stupidity is a choice.
Gary
Tim, but wasn't that the issue at the time? We all said it was an unrealistic promise to make, because he was in no position to deliver it. I don't think, therefore, that we should be at all surprised that this has happened. My only surprise it that it has taken so long. And it's got nothing to do with loyalty to DD. DD was right. Simple as that. On other issues, DD was wrong and DC was right, so it's not blind loyalty - it's calling it as it is!
ReplyDeleteGary, ah, so it's MEPs now is it? Changing your story to suit events. Some of us might say that there are a couple of MEPs who would be more at home in the Labour Party anyway. I can imagine the shock and disbelief and absolute horror there would be if, for example, Caroline Jackson jumped ship and followed her husband. Not.
ReplyDeleteIain - Hague debunked this story about leaving the EPP on BBC Breakfast this morning - he clearly stated that the Cons would leave and negociations would be ongoing until July.
ReplyDeleteDid nobody else see this ?
Hmm. I suspect this won't be the last issue on which the position taken by DD will prove to be the more statesmanlike.
ReplyDeleteIain,
ReplyDeleteOf course a nasty cynic might suggest that having a husband and wife both representing the same party in parliament is a bit risky.
Financially it is far better for them to hedge their bets by representing different parties. Thus at least one is always assured the chance of a ministerial salary and the risk of complete family unemployment due to a landslide election is negated.
Naturally, I would not dare to suggest that Ms Jackson or her hubby consider politics anything but a public duty to be born honourably.
RM
You're not calling it as it is, Iain. You're missing the elephant in the room as I've already said. Your post talked about DD having a right to feel smug and you say that everyone knew that it was an unrealistic promise. I'm sorry but a promise is a promise. There are many who do not feel it is an unrealistic promise.
ReplyDeletejimjam says that WH refuted the rumour on EPP retreat this morning. Yesterday evening the press were getting a different spin which is why The Times, FT and Telegraph have ALL run with the retreat story this morning. Is it a retreat? Or is it just a muddle? Time will tell.
Dear Anoneumouse
ReplyDeleteThank you for writing to David Cameron - he's asked me to thank you and to say that he appreciated what you had to say.
David Cameron has made clear that it is his firm policy that the Conservative Party under his leadership will not remain a member of the European Peoples Party-European Democrats Group (EPP-ED) in the European Parliament, and will aim to form a new grouping which reflects more closely our views on the way forward for Europe.
The Conservative Party has a fundamentally different approach on the key institutional and constitutional questions relating to the future direction of the European Union, and it is natural that we should wish to ally ourselves with parties which share that view. But we intend to maintain close relations with other centre-right parties with which we agree on much, but not on these issues.
David Cameron has asked the new Shadow Foreign Secretary to take forward this process, with appropriate consultation of all involved. In seeking a new alignment within the European Parliament, the Conservative Party
will aim to continue to work closely with fellow centre-right parties in the European Parliament on the many issues on which we agree.
Many thanks again for writing.
Yours sincerely,
David Beal
Correspondence Secretary
David Cameron's Office
House of Commons
London SW1A 0AA
If he cant deliver on this, his first promise, then why should we believe anything he has to say?
Sorry for the confusion Iain but I honestly did not know who it was that contemplated defection.
ReplyDeleteI'm amazed that you Tories appear not too concerned.
As I've said before, If the Tories want to play UKIP/BNP games with Europe and attempt to take the heated elements out within your ranks, then you will ultimately lose hands down.
You honestly believe that joe Bloggs will vote Tory because of an isolationist Euro sceptic Cameron/Hague(loser) in a GE?
You are kidding yourselves if you think that! We will play the human/Euro rights card along with the social chapter(removal)and flatten you once again.
Cameron the service sector champion and Eurorights sceptic? It doesn't add up.
We in the underclasses owe everything to our Euro champions. Heath, Thatcher and Major.
It's not rocket science that Cameron is going to take things that we value off us.
Your funeral and I will definitely invite myself to it.
Gary
Local hospitals in Merseyside to axe wards in funding crisis. (some)Tories in a lather over obscure Europolitics. Which is of greatest concern and importance? Discuss...
ReplyDeleteOh and another thing!
ReplyDeleteThe centre rights that Hague speaks of includes a raving maniac that disowns women, includes them nowhere in the political process and refuses to acknowlege them.
Believe me I will slaughter you lot when you make the break and join this criminal.
Gary
There's an article on the Telegraph's web site today: 'Banker of the Year in Major Fraud'. Strangely enough, the story really is about a banker of the year who has been involved in a major fraud. Life's full of surprises.
ReplyDeleteWell Iain, you might think it's a non issue but for those of us who have had to put up wuth the EPP it most certainly does make a difference - practically, financially, even in terms of morale, both for us and our contninental friends.
ReplyDeleteThe European Parliament and the EPP antics during the EU Constitutional Convention have taught me that both our policy and our voting record are subverted by association with the EPP, and as adieu-epp.com spells out, we get a better deal running our own ship.
It might be an esoteric subject, even a boring one. But so is say the process of policy formation, or running the whips office, or paying the bills. If we are losing out on all these counts, we have to move. So the issue is far more important than you are giving credit for - and here smugness is a misplaced luxury!
Regards,
A (non-venomous) little cub
The situation is not a simple as "The Voters Don't Care".
ReplyDeleteWe Conservatives stand to gain from being able to paint both the Labour Party and The Lib Dems as complete walk overs in Europe. Our official position is much closer to the average voter than that of our competitors.
However we are completely hamstrung by being in the EPP. We cannot show a consistent face to the electorate. It also forces Eurosceptics (who are the majority in our party) to appear to be disloyal every time they open their mouths.
So yes, noone except sad gits like me really care that much, but indirectly it damages the party and our electoral chances.
(Not to mention the issue of principles)
Tim, I realise why you think Iain has missed the point, but as far as I can tell the commitment to withdraw from the EPP has not been scrappedd, it's been parked but is still what business types called a deliverable, we've just changed the delivery date.
ReplyDeleteAs I said on Right Links, surely we have to very careful about what we do in the EP otherwise we'll just end up being portrayed by Labour as intransigent and split Little Englanders.
Not to metnion of course that no one in the general public gives a crap if Tory MEPs are in the EPP or not.
The point is not about the issue itself. Leaving the EPP is merely a token of Tory disapproval but unwillingness to actually do anything like go for EU associate status.
ReplyDeleteThe point is that this is one of only 2 (from memory) promises that Cameron made & to renege on it when already nobody really knew what he believes in does not inspire confidence.
indirectly it damages the party and our electoral chances.
ReplyDelete===================================
serf, perhaps you are right, but then I also think that perhaps that less tempered reaction to this might indirectly hurt our electoral chances.
You say Iain,is this too much to ask?Well for me it is.The issue is not so much whether we leave the EPP or not but much more important the issue of political honesty.DC made a pledge and he should stick to it.After 9 years of the spin and lies of Blair and Co I'm sure everyone who has been canvassing has been told on the doorstep 'politicians you're all the bloody same.Say anything to get elected....'
ReplyDeleteI had hoped that we were better than that,am I wrong?
For the record, Fox was the first leadership contender to advocate leaving the EPP, back in September. The Telegraph leader welcomed it at the time as the first real commitment of substance - something that was in the power of the opposition leader rather thanb something that would wait for possible government in 2009.
ReplyDeleteeu-serf is quite wrong (about his own party)and it's as simple as this.
ReplyDeleteYou Tories practically invented the EEC and the EU, so why are you complaining now?
William Hague (daft as a brush)(my apologies to daft brushes everywhere) played the 'save the pound' card. Anti Eu, Euro Brussels and all of the rest of it.
He was a kid in a cap and was rejected hands down by the GREAT BRITISH PUBLIC and oh yes, by you lot as well.
You believe that John Bull is more anti EU today than in Willies day and including IDS.(Britain rejected him and you did also).
Today, you believe that leaving the EEP makes you more acceptable to John Bull. John Bull is burnt out and the BNP only gained because of the raised atmosphere prior to the local elections.
You leave the EEP and Angela's Democrats and IDS and Willie will feel a bit better.
Cameron will go down in history as another Tory loser.
Decision time Dave.
Gary
Oh and by the way!
ReplyDeleteFox meaning Liam Fox? A leader hopeful?
Whatever happened to Liam Fox the anti EU contender?
I think IDS and Willie should tell.
John Major got it right but there were a few b******s who wrecked your once great party.
Gary
Iain,
ReplyDeleteWith your contacts with those in power could you find out whether the inmates of Broadmoor are being given internet access as part of their therapy?
Some of Gary's comments could lead one to think he's a bit barmy. And the "Believe me I will slaughter you lot when you make the break and join this criminal" comment could be seen as the sign of a violent and deranged mind.
RM
Gary, I don't understand.
ReplyDeleteTim Montgomerie, you accuse Iain of missing the point!
ReplyDelete"The firestorm of protest overnight that greeted the EPP rumours has, I hope, forced the party leadership to realise what is at stake here. You should not let your loyalty to DD's EPP position (which may have been the right one) get in the way of understanding that."
Oh dear Iain, you, me and many others just aren't getting with the "programme" over on CH.
Now remember, you must not let a little thing like "loyalty" stop you from using this blog as a tool to "force" David Cameron and the shadow cabinet to abandon any attempts to make themselves more appealing to the voting public.
Remember their success will be judged by their ability to reflect the views of the "conservative" poster's on CH rather than any domestic poll or election which includes a wider cross section of British opinion.
Richard, well, a good try! But I know exactly what was attempted by some of Liam's more "enthusiastic" supporters. I'll save it for the memoirs, though!
ReplyDelete"Damn all your principles! Stick to your party."
ReplyDeleteApt I think
Well, I agree with Iain. The EPP is irrelevant to the rest of the world. But I would like to point out that the promise to withdraw from it was first made by Liam Fox and only then by David Cameron in a me-too gesture. Of course, Fox it was who marched them all back into the EPP after the last European elections but that's politics for you.
ReplyDeleteWhy should the population care about the EPP when they do not care for the EU itself ?
ReplyDeleteSince most people wish to leave the EU what role the Conservatives have with respect to the EPP is meaningless to most voters.
The fact that the Conservatives appear to have decided that issues like the CFP etc are now matters where Britain can only follow the majority opinion inside the EU, it is clear that Conservatives have a policy on one issue without needing Oliver Letwin to cogitate for 18 months.
It is not a policy which will appear attractive, but Cameron has a policy on Selection being only a Private Sector educational option too - seemingly the contours of Cameron's Conservative Party are becoming clearer, though perhaps increasingly unattractive
Rick, where do you get the idea that 'most people wish to leave the EU' from?
ReplyDeleteGranted, the Tory press want a fight and granted the remnants that somehow allowed to offer a bit of support for Labour don't,but the general public, you say?
A couple of ex-leaders in the Tory ranks whipped up the right wing and were always doomed to lose.
The Tory party have no foundation whatsoever that indicates withdrawl.The biggest failing of the Conservatives over Europe is that you never offer evidence that guarantees support from anywhere.
To me as a socialist,I find it easy to convince any group of disinterested people into supporting the EU.
As you Tories have found to your cost at each and every election time.So please don't think for one moment that this issue is a tiny bit of an election winner.
It isn't for me and it's not for you.
Gary
The EU is only an election winner if you actually have a policy on it. Quitting the EPP is merely a substitute for a policy.
ReplyDeleteIf it is true that the EU costs us £40 billion a year < http://www.junepress.com/PDF/Vol%20%209%20No%2019%20-%209th%20July%202004.pdf > then quitting would be likely to be popular.
The figure given above is clearly from a biased source, but the fact is that the government repeatedly refuses to produce any other. The Tories could at least push the govenment to hire some top accountants to produce such figures which would give a basis for coming up with a policy.
According to that figure neil,£40BN means that we are a net loser, even if we didn't contribute!
ReplyDeleteIt's around £6BN based on value of our trade, exports and VAT.
Thatchers stand for the rebate and Tony's correction is apparently accurate.
Gary