How convenient for Conservatives that Manchester will be the first place where people can sign up voluntarily for ID Cards from October. It's where their conference is taking place. What a great opportunity for a spontaneous demonstration!
Just one thing. Who on earth does the Government think is going to voluntarily queue up to shell out £60 for an ID card. Apart from a few nutters and Labour MPs, that is.
I suspect that they will work with banks, solicitors and others who have to handle money laundering and compliance to make sure that it is very easy to open new bank accounts etc. with an ID card, but (even) more difficult without. Then those of us who are opposed to ID cards, particularly those in business, may be compelled to 'volunteer' to get one.
ReplyDeleteIn time the same principle will apply to social security, dealing with local authorities, eventually the DVLA etc.
Easy and it solves another problem of New Labour's making.
ReplyDelete'If you don't get an ID card from your local post office it'll have to close.'
One suggestion I hear is that the National Insurance register has been corrupted beyond hope of redemption.
ReplyDeleteIf that holds any vestige of truth, then any government would need to go for ID cards or some similar re-registration. Equally, there is an obvious and immediate "pay-back" which renders the estimates of cost invalid.
One thing is for sure, Labour always have a hidden agenda. I'm very nervous what it is for ID cards.
ReplyDeleteAs a resident of Manchester, I can assure you I won't get an ID card even if they become law. I object to the idea of needing a bit of plastic given to me by the government of the day to 'prove' I am a British citizen.
ReplyDeleteThis idea Jacqui has of us all carrying around utility bills and passports is also a nonsense. I shred my utility bills and leave my passport in a safe place at home unless I am leaving the country.
That is the whole reason I object to ID cards, they will be compulsary, passports are voluntary.
Who's going to queue... only the mad and those wanting to be dominated...
ReplyDeleteEnough people will have been bribed to get one. Given money at the DSS, NHS staff told that this is the new security card, but the cost can be redeemed immediately, and so on.
ReplyDeleteAnd the first 50,000 go into a prize drawer to win one of thirty electric Gordo cars {car not redeemable until 2012 or possibly never. Terms and conditions may apply. The cost of your I.D. card may go up as well as up. The I.D. card is currently not accepted as evidence of Identity. Alternative identity documents such as driving licence or passport may be required to gain admittance to an airport or a gymnasium or library.}
MPs in Greater Manchester:
ReplyDeleteConstituency
MP
Party
Majority
ALTRINCHAM & SALE WEST
Graham Brady
Con
7,159
ASHTON-UNDER-LYNE
David Heyes
Lab
13,952
BOLTON NORTH EAST
David Crausby
Lab
4,103
BOLTON SOUTH EAST
Brian Iddon
Lab
11,638
BOLTON WEST
Ruth Kelly
Lab
2,064
BURY NORTH
David Chaytor
Lab
2,926
BURY SOUTH
Ivan Lewis
Lab
8,912
CHEADLE
Mark Hunter
LD
3,657
DENTON & REDDISH
Andrew Gwynne
Lab
13,498
ECCLES
Ian Stewart
Lab
14,528
HAZEL GROVE
Andrew Stunell
LD
7,748
HEYWOOD & MIDDLETON
Jim Dobbin
Lab Co-op
11,083
LEIGH
Andy Burnham
Lab
17,272
MAKERFIELD
Ian McCartney
Lab
18,149
MANCHESTER BLACKLEY
Graham Stringer
Lab
12,027
MANCHESTER CENTRAL
Tony Lloyd
Lab
9,776
MANCHESTER GORTON
Gerald Kaufman
Lab
5,806
MANCHESTER WITHINGTON
John Leech
LD
667
OLDHAM EAST
Phil Woolas
Lab
3,590
OLDHAM WEST & ROYTON
Michael Meacher
Lab
10,454
ROCHDALE
Paul Rowen
LD
442
SALFORD
Hazel Blears
Lab
7,945
STALYBRIDGE & HYDE
James Purnell
Lab
8,348
STOCKPORT
Ann Coffey
Lab
9,163
STRETFORD & URMSTON
Beverley Hughes
Lab
7,851
WIGAN
Neil Turner
Lab
11,767
WORSLEY
Barbara Keeley
Lab
9,368
WYTHENSHAWE & SALE EAST
Paul Goggins
Lab
10,827
============
Plenty of Labour ministers who will have to get their ID cards as part of the first wave...
That's the cynicism of it.
ReplyDeleteShe should have started in Redditch.
ReplyDeleteAt least one happy customer would have applied. Bob Roberts is always writing to his local rag and telling everyone what a wonderful idea ID cards are and what a brilliant home help Jacqui Smith is.
I have not checked. Will MPs be able to chrge the 60 quid to expenses?
ReplyDeleteThere are countless thousands more NI cards than there are people to use them.
ReplyDeleteI do not doubt that the same thing will happen to ID cards.
But I can prove my ID already. Drivers licence passport. By all means provide pensioners whon have neither with a card. But otherwise what is the point?
The point and the cost is the database behind it. Over time it will have all manner of info about you on it and who knows who will be able to access it and use it for who knows what.
THAT is the point. It is NOT to do with ID - the vast majority can prove that as it is.
Smith and Labour are simply lying to us again.
The other cost is the card reader which industry commerce and everyone and their dog will have to buy.
I was listening to Chris Grayling's interview with Humphries on Radio 4.
ReplyDeleteGrayling asserted that to prove one's identity when stopped by the police driving license is enough . When Humphries asked him what if one does not drive and has no driving license, Grayling said " they are not that many". He forgot this not USA when almost every one drives. I do not drive and lots of people I know who live in London, Manchester, Birmingham ... do not drive. Grayling further said, in the absence of acceptable ID, one has to go to police station and proves one's identity. Grayling further said, he would cancel ID cards to save money. Humphries asked if only £2 billion left after spending most budget money on data base etc.. how much would he
able to save? Graylng repeated he would cancel to save money.
I wish Tories come up with a better excuse than this. Personally I like ID cards as I have too often seen visitors coming for free NHS treatment and getting out. A and E at best asks for NI number and GP's name and address which is suffice for even in-patient admission. BMA and doctors have said it is not their jobs to ask for IDs and hospital admin staff are overwhelmed. My doctor friend narrates stories of these NHS visitors .
All who care about the immigration issue should support biometric ID cards. I have written to Grayling. There comes a time when we all have to prove that we are citizens here. That does not bother me. Strict border controls alone will not be suffice. Biometrics IDs will delay the perpetrator's access like the deadlock on the door. I have been voting Conservative for 35 years and Grayling 's performance was not good.
Very off topic - Max Mosley’s son's suicide - on my site now.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the Main Stream Media will be forced to clean up their act after this. Saying that they go after cheap celebrity stories because they don't have the money to do proper journalism is not going to be an acceptable excuse any more.
Being fair to Labour, at least they're not doing their usual and forcing, something everyone doesn't want, on us. They must think they're being kind.
ReplyDeleteI always thought if you wanted to protect your identity it's best not to make it easier for con artists. But I'm sure that's just me. Labour know best, huh?
marcantonysjournal.blogspot.com
I'm adopted, so does this mean that I can apply for my original birth certificate, and then use it to get an ID card under the name I was originally given?
ReplyDeleteI also have access to high quality scanning and printing equipment, if the government needs to see a utility bill with a completely false address.
My, it's a good job I'm a law abiding citizen, isn't it?
I would queue up for one very simple reason. Having lived on the Continent for roughly 30 years I would love to have an identity card to travel around with rather than have to take my passport.
ReplyDelete@ Norman. Since when has one had to prove one's identity in this country apart from when driving?
ReplyDeleteWhy should I have to carry an ID card to prove who I am? I haven't needed one in all my life..why do I need one now?
If this worthless bunch of hoons thinks I'm paying any money whatsoever to get an ID card then they can think again...and by the way I'm a Tory voter too.
Isn't it £60 then more than that if you need to change any details like address or surname after marriage with a substantial fine if you don't keep them updated? So much for being voluntary if so!
ReplyDeleteI suspect the citizens of Greater Manchester will give the Government the same massive two-fingered salute on ID cards that they did on road pricing trials.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile airline pilots organisation Balpa is considering legal action against the Home Office for forcing its members to carry ID cards at Manchester and London airports.
As they point out, quite reasonably IMHO, the legislation was passed by Parliament on the basis that the cards will be voluntary.
Keith,
ReplyDeleteThe country has changed. Look around and see changes every where. Even as an IT person I did not think in 1984 that some day we will be blogging like this, and that I would be transferring my funds at the touch of a button and that my bank account will be interfered with without my bank knowing and money would simply disappear! I need not say this. I am sure ID cards will be a fact one day.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/8033442.stm
ReplyDeleteNothing to do with ID cards (I think!) but can you really believ we live in a country where the police can do this?
Can someone tell me when the law changed to say you were guilty until you could prove your innocence?
norman said
ReplyDelete'I have been voting Conservative for 35 years and Grayling 's performance was not good.'
Grayling needs to stand up for a free democracy, not saving money. And if you agree with ID cards under this tyrannical government and you vote Tory, I'm sorry to say you should be ashamed of yourself.
Trouble is I think Grayling's heart is on the authoritian right not the libitarian right.
ReplyDeleteThis is where need David Davis
Anonymous 4.36
ReplyDeleteSuffice to say that you have shamed yourself by that remark. You cannot even identify yourself with a
" name".
Is there any argument for ID cards which would not apply to micro-chipping people?
ReplyDeleteAs Manchester has shown with Labour's road pricing scam, it has the capability of crushing a Labour scheme into dust if it wants to. Manchester No2ID will be flies to shit on this one..
ReplyDeleteI was quite keen on ID cards. It seemed like a good way to stop benefit fraud and stop people who weren't entitled to it using the NHS. But I've just heard they'll be issued by Post Offices. That means in urban multicultural areas fraud has been built into the system before it even starts.
ReplyDeleteThey're £30 not £60 ... but that'll make no difference to this Manc nutter Iain. And my next passport will be Irish.
ReplyDeleteThe vox pops from Manchester so far have been fairly favourable actually.
When John Harris came and did his fly on the wall thing at Manchester CLP a couple of years ago for G2 I was trying to get through an anti-ID cards position. Lost narrowly because some of those present voted against their own branch position.
Actually the BBC have been spinning the story all day that they can't find ANYONE in Manchester that opposes ID cards.
ReplyDeleteSo I hope people remember that when being arrested for not having theirs on them.
The BBC doesn't even attempt to be balanced anymore.
The lucky people of Manchester now have the chance to kill off identity cards once and for all.
ReplyDeleteSimply by doing nothing.
Ewo thoughts:
ReplyDelete1. I hope the MPs are first to volunteer because it will virtually guarantee that their details will be cloned, sold on leaked etc.
2. None of them will sign up because they know what the risks really are.
Labour has chosen Manchester because it is the home of Labour tribalists. 'My dad voted labour and so I vote Labour' is about the sum of their logic.quinasmu
ReplyDeleteI too am a Mancunian and this is just ZANU-Arbeit and their Stasi wanabees taking a petty vengeance for us telling these cut-price gauleiters where to stick their congestion charge. I am a freebon Englishman and I will not bow down and surrender my fingerprints to these inept morons.
ReplyDeleteLike much of the idiotic ideas from the Fuhrer Bunker it is "voluntary" as long as you just obey ze orders.
The Brown Bottler has really lost it! He thinks he is loved as he manoevres fictional Labour MPs across the map of his shrinking Reich.
TTFN, Mike :)
The Mancs made my day when they crushed the Government's chances of getting road charhing through. Here's hoping they can do the same with this white elephant.
ReplyDeletenochblad said... I would queue up for one very simple reason. Having lived on the Continent for roughly 30 years I would love to have an identity card to travel around with rather than have to take my passport.
ReplyDeleteI think the system will require you to have both an ID card and a Passport, there is no suggestion that an ID card will give the right of entry to UK.
I've just been told to book a hotel in Manchester for the big event and asked if he was joking. He hasn't replied but I kind of think he is because he's now crying.
ReplyDeleteCan nobody stop this madness?
Oooh look, some spin...
ReplyDeleteFirstly, you cannot 'yet' get these cards on the high street. The good folk of Manchester will have instead to apply online and then attend the local passport office to be finger printed. When they are eventually available from the Post Office and other good outlets (after the two year trial) the cost will be around £60... not the £30 the Government has ALWAYS promised they'd cost.
And remember, once you're on the database; there's NO coming off it. Ever! Change your address, name or any of the other details and you'll have to inform the authorities within two weeks... forget and you'll land yourself a £1000 fine.
Does anyone really want to have this milestone around their neck for the rest of their natural lives?
I think the fee is £30 for the first two years rising to 360 thereafter.
ReplyDeleteAirline Pilots do have a choice they can have an ID Card or lose their jobs - totally voluntary!
How often does one have to 'prove' one's identity to anyone? I can recall only three occasions in the last ten years when that was necessary - and it was done simply enough with passport or driving license or a couple of utility bills.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the cops are intending to stop and search loads more people - but they'll have to get out on the streets first.
All this bollox about helping to reduce crime - does it 'help to reduce crime' in countries where ID Cards are mandatory? Any evidence to support this nonsense? Frankly the total costs (in all senses) of this wheeze vastly outweigh the likely benefits to society.
"nutters and Labour MPs" - Not mutually exclusive of course.
ReplyDeleteIf they get and ID Card it makes Labour Party members easier to be processed when held under anti-terrorism legislation
Is there any argument for ID cards which would not apply to micro-chipping people?
ReplyDeleteMay 06, 2009 4:47 PM
Not as far as I can tell.
The establishment very much desires, and so has made plans, to micro-chip the entire worlds population, at some time in the not so distant future.
Nobody in there right mind would want to be micro-chipped, unless certain planned events conspire to occur. A future very serious terrorist attack. Or a deadly pandemic flu outbreak, for just two examples.
At which point, a handy way to speed passage past all of those resultant army and police checkpoints, could be very much in demand.
Thousands will of course be inevitably arrested and detained, for forgetting or losing there ID cards. Therefore getting yourself micro-chipped may start to seem like a relatively good idea.
David Davis will most likely become PM one day. Don't be surprised if it turns out to be David Davis himself that finally introduces compulsory ID cards. Cos that is the way, these sort of things are usually done.
Atlas shrugged
nochblad said... I would queue up for one very simple reason. Having lived on the Continent for roughly 30 years I would love to have an identity card to travel around with rather than have to take my passport.
ReplyDeleteI think the system will require you to have both an ID card and a Passport, there is no suggestion that an ID card will give the right of entry to UK.
On the Continent an ID card substitutes the passport and many continentals can enter the UK with their ID card. Additionally many non EU countries accept ID cards for entry under certain circumstances including Turkey, Tunisia etc.
If the ID card cannot substitute the passport for EU travel then my vote is a NO!
Cracking idea this. Put the process in the hands of people who only want it to make a few bucks.
ReplyDeleteNo proper supervision, no proper assurance.
Head down to your local Boots and switch your fake ID for a genuine Gov one. I'm sure £30 is cheap at half the price for that. They'll be queuing out the door for them.
No one who has any idea about infosec has ever had input into this. Or they've certainly never been listened to.
MPs will probably claim it as an expense anyway.
ReplyDelete