I have only just got back into the office so I didn't catch all of PMQs, although I gather it was rather lively, with David Cameron being told by The Speaker to withdraw the word 'phoney'.
Your verdict?
UPDATE: OK, I have seen it now. I thought Cameron completely destroyed Brown on several counts. However, much of the media will no doubt concentrate on the fact that he was forced to withdraw his charge of Brown being a "phoney". He's right, and his argument totally justified the accusation, but he will know that he shouldn't have said it. The analysis on the Daily Politics was that Cameron blew it. That will be the Westminster Village interpretation. But I somehow d think that the verdict outside the bubble might be rather different. People do see Brown as a phoney, and whatever the rights and wrongs of Cameron saying it, he reflected what many people think. The joke in response to Skinner's barracking was superb: "I know he wanted miners in the government. Well he's now got Lord Myners". Skinner, for once, couldn't think of a retort.
Brown made little attempt to ask a single one of Cameron's questions. He avoided saying anything in response to Cameron's question about the fact that most of the government's announced measures to help business and the unemployed haven't even been launched several months after they were announced.
No doubt you will all sigh when I say this, but I felt it was a clear win for Cameron.
38 comments:
Cameron completely destroyed Skinner, and I thought did very well against His Holiness the Brown Stuff
Dave got it and that phoney comment will stick a la Tony.
Too many tractor stats again - I find it hard to keep listening when these are trotted out so may be not that objective!
All you need to know Iain is that Spex and The City's analysis was rubbish. Cameron did not 'blow it'.
Convenient that you missed PMQs, Iain, on the day that Cameron completely blew it and was humiliated by the Speaker's big rebuke! Cameron is treating parliament with contempt by using language such as 'phoney', and this just adds to the cynicism over politics which the media feeds on.
I agree with the three comments so far, and indeed wrote some of the same on Guido's LiveChat (where I am normally to be found during PMQs).
The BBC continues to have and promote its own agenda, so rarely has any basis in reality except superficially. Dan Hannan was his usually excellent, clear and to-the-point self in Brussels, and even Charles Clarke (sitting beside Dan) wasn't bad.
Overall, I'd say Cameron won it easily; though Clegg had a good point, as did some of the backbenchers on that side of the House. Not that many get a chance after all the tractor stats waffle from teh PM…
Ah, a fourth comment has appeared while I was writing mine. It can be safely ignored.
Humiliated? Don't think so James..'on the money' is more like it. Cameron clearly ahead of Brown and nice to see the arrogant Skinner get his comeuppance.
Brown is a Phoney and is utterly contemptuous of Parliament.
Brown, hectoring, nervous, disjointed, largely irrelevant. Cameron battered him. Brown - usual tractor stats. Mr Speaker idiotically made his personal position extremely clear. Cameron's withdrawal tidy and brisk. Overall Brown on the ropes, clobbered from all sides on virtually all matters.
Cameron could've done slightly better, but a very good confident and competent performance. Huge contrast in style, content and presentation. Clear leadership material contrasted nicely with Brown's dithering and bombast.
The "phoney" comment seems to be distracting the media from a couple of very good jokes about Lord Miners
Shame.
Nick Robinson on yet another 'balanced' DP panel said Cameron had blown it with the 'phoney' comment and that he will 'lie awake tonight'.
Rubbish - Cameron was on top form, and what came across very strongly this week was a sense of utter frustration at Brown's muttered excuses and failings. You could hear the anger and despair in Cameron's voice which I thought worked very well, and certainly captured my mood! (Although I am probably about as impartial as a standard DP panel!)
Above all what came across is a sense of urgency by the Tories, that if we carry on with this government for much longer we'll be beyond help. Cameron gave off a real urge to get in there and sort things out.
Dave stuck the knife in but still needs to give it a twist.
Did Dave really blow it by calling Gord a Phoney?
Yes he got reprimanded, but the "phoney" will be reported even if it is in the same breath as the rebuke.
The question is will it stick to Gord?
@ James
'Treating Parliament with contempt'?
Hilarious. WTF do you think this 'government' has been doing for the past decade?
'Language such as phoney'? Don't be so bleeding silly. Everyone outside that chamber knows that Brown is a phoney.
If cheap point-scoring over people's livelihoods (using unparliamentary language) doesn't amount to 'Punch & Judy politics' by David Cameron, I'd hate to see what does.
Skinner. Skinned, more like.
Gordon was even more a stranger to reason than (ab)normal.
Cameron on top form. The Myners jibes were pitch perfect and Skinner looked livid. The phoney fuss can only do Cameron more good. Gordon Brown IS a phoney and the truth hurts. The Conservatives need to create a bit of controversy to even get a look in on the news agenda. Hopefully Nick Robinson's absurd patter about Cameron's "sleepless night" will ensure the phoney charge sticks.
James...constantly carping about the opposition being the 'Do-nothing party' after making a flurry of announcements and not delivering a single one of them is a bit...well, a bit phoney. Brown's refusal to answer a question shows contempt to parliament on a weekly basis. This 'Phoney' tag will stick because it's true, he's a man who will say anything to stay in power. The only question remains how long before his cabinet put him out of his misery?
@ James
And you seriously believe Brown isn't indulging in infinitely more of the same? High altitude pork.
That's the way it is in Parliament. If you don't like it Petal you're going to have a very hard job finding any legislative chamber in the world to suit your tastes and great sensitivities.
'Unparliamentary language'? Listen to Dennis Skinner - et al. Frankly it's about time there was some straight talk in what we refer to as 'Parliament' - instead of all this bollocks about 'language'. Brown is a phoney, full stop.
I know brown has been tainted with the stories concerning losing his temper.
But one week after cameron thanked the prime minster for his words after his son had died he reverts back to norm and accuses him of all manner of things.
while politics is a hard game i just find cameron a bit confusing at times and don't really believe some of this anger he shows as real. or maybe it is and we all have to worry about what kind of pm he would make.
its a bad day for cameron he missed an open goal in my opinion.
Broon was floundering again and was ripped apart by Tory Dave.
I laughed out loud when Dave put down Skinner, who looked as if he had swallowed a bad tasting toad. Either Skinner did not understand the put down, or he was too shocked, but like he did not know what to say or do. His usual sideline snide was silenced.
Broon – 0/10
Dave - 10/10
Loved it.
Iain, I completely agree!
As usual the British Bias Corporation made a big deal about it. What some people forget is some of these mainstream media hacks are also part of the bunker system. Cameron totally wiped the floor with Brown...
www.plenty2say.com
Any idea how Labourlist viewed the great leaders performance? No - thought not.
No Iain, I don't disagree with you on this one. I only heard it on radio but DC certainly came out on top for me.
You know those court room scenes on TV where the barrister naughtily reveals that the accused has been convicted of rape 30 times before and the judge intervenes to instruct the jury to disregard it?
Well, anyone who believes that the jury instantly forgets what they've just heard is on a level with anyone who believes that the Speaker disallowing "phoney" neatly cancels out the word as if it had never been spoken.
no sighing here. Cameron was great today.
I enjoyed todays session. Cameron came across very well, and clearly destroyed the hapless Brown on several occasions.
Btw, has anyone seen the BBC's report on it? How disingenuous can you get? In fact, i'm going to post it just in case they change it later:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7950576.stm
Conservative leader David Cameron has been rebuked by Commons speaker Michael Martin after he called Prime Minister Gordon Brown a "phoney".
Mr Cameron was forced to withdraw the remark during a stormy prime minister's questions in the Commons.
He was criticising Mr Brown over an interview in which the PM said the focus in politics "on who said what, when, how and why" was "divisive".
MPs are banned from personal abuse or accusing each other of lying.
WOW. For one, they've basically ignored the entire session and focused on Cameron having to withdraw his "phoney" remark.
Then they've taken his criticism of Brown completely out of context, so that it looks like he was just criticising Brown for lambasting people who quote. Which many of the public will agree with Brown over.
But that's not what Cameron was doing at all. He was responding to a comment by Gordon that basically went after the Tories for what Ken Clarke said, by saying effectively, "that coming from someone who lambasted such an attack a few days ago".
So well done BBC. Keep up the sterling work on impartiality!
Even the Guardian PMQs blog had this as an easy win for Cameron. That's saying something.
Smart tactics - getting in the phoney jibe and cheerfully withdrawing it. The cut has been made.
I would ignore James - its a phoney comment.
Brown has just been on SKY with a new job creation scheme.
The govt are going to fund a plan to raise the Titanic.
Asked why, Brown said he wanted to find out more about the band that played on until the end.
Brown "the nutter with the stutter" was well and truly stuffed by Cameron today, he just needs to keep the pressure on now.
Had to feel sorry for Fabregas for getting it wrong though.
Brown is phoney. A Nokia phoney.
And a serial 2am in the morning 'I hear you don't agree with me' phoner.
Clear win for Cameron, but still failed to land the knock-out punch
Isn't a phoney what Gordon throws at the walley when he's not playing with his farmy?
Many do not think Brown is a phoney. Tony was a phoney, Brown is deluded if not actually insane.
Unsworth has written some good, accurate comments here, and I have linked to one of them as "the best I have yet read on today's PMQs".
moorlandhunter is right about Skinner being snide. It is standard for chip-on-shoulder Labour folk. Indeed, I worked out a while back (based on what I was getting from the Labour side of the Council Chamber) that s.n.i.d.e. must stand for:
"Socialists Notably Incapable of Debating Effectively." Seems to fit…
Nice to see the Scots standing up for one another as usual. Even if it is to the detriment of government...
David Cameron won the PMQs contest, but was weak in the way he presented the questions to Gordon Brown. Cameron's one weakness is his ability to get sidetracked and therefore obfuscate the question, allowing Brown an easy dodge.
Rather than say no-one has been helped by the credit crunch initiatives and ask when they will be, which is easily rebutted by Brown, David Cameron should just aske the simple question:
How many people have been helped by the mortgage scheme, how many people have been helped by the small business loan guarantee scheme and how many businesses have received how much help under the car industry schemes?
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