tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post9016867393939346706..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: The Problem with English DevolutionIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger80125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-13941782789904744692007-05-02T14:16:00.000+01:002007-05-02T14:16:00.000+01:00i'm sorry, but I think you'll need to do some more...i'm sorry, but I think you'll need to do some more research to discover whether the "majority" do indeed think that. Simply referring to a few insults doesn't mean that a majority think like that and it doesn't entitle anyone to smear people on the basis of them. There are a couple of hateful anti-English comments here too, and people, including myself, have experienced them in Scotland and Wales, for that matter. What does that mean? Nothing but poor manners and people who love to be offensive, for whatever reason. It's a cheap shot to equate either English nationalism per se with racism, or the supposed views of imaginary "majorities" of people who support an English parliament; it's a piss-poor argument and it doesn't wash outside of north London anymore. <BR/><BR/>By the way, if refusing to be smeared as racist counts as silly, then...oh, never mind.Bill Haydonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08357811679771159469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-70156707077329238602007-05-02T13:03:00.000+01:002007-05-02T13:03:00.000+01:00Tin Drummer, don’t be silly. For a start I don’t ...Tin Drummer, don’t be silly. For a start I don’t have a problem with an English Parliament per se, it’s just the fact that the majority of people who are supportive of the idea and who post on this blog and others are, indeed, racist. Their support for an English Parliament doesn’t make them racist. It’s their frequent rants and slurs against Scottish people, calling them Jocks, parasites, scroungers, implying that they hate England or the English and are conspiring against them, which makes them racist.<BR/><BR/>For example, someone from the English Dumbocrats might say “I want an English Parliament because I’m fed up of a Cabinet stuffed full of Jock parasites who hate England”. Not only is the Cabinet not “stuffed full” of Scots, as I explained in the last post, but the use of “Jock” is extremely offensive. I’m sure Mr Dale (quite rightly) wouldn’t allow the use of the work “P**i” or “n****r” on his blog so why allow “Jock”? Anyway, when one politely points out that the English Dumbocrat statement is a tad racist and intolerant, you should expect the reply “It’s not racist to want an English Parliament!! No, it’s not. But just because you want an English Parliament doesn’t excuse the barrage of abuse that the Scots are becoming increasingly subject to from your political ilk and other users of this very fine blog on a daily basis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-29117325212879786732007-05-02T12:34:00.000+01:002007-05-02T12:34:00.000+01:00"The Scots are allowed to debate the issue because...<I>"The Scots are allowed to debate the issue because their nation is "oppressed" by the evil English but the English aren't allowed to discuss their own independence."<BR/><BR/>That's a lie. There's no barrier to freedom of speech or ban on discussing English independence in the UK. In fact, I believe Simon Heffer has an article in today's Teelgraph calling for English independence. He wouldn't have done that if people "weren't allowed" to discuss it.</I><BR/><BR/><BR/>You know what he means - he means being able to discuss it without being slandered as racist - exactly what you are trying to do. Again.<BR/><BR/>And your selective picking of points does not show how "the case for an English parliament =" lies or hate filled rhetoric. The insults which you don't bother to quote _do not_" = the case for an English parliament", they just "=" bad manners. Guilt by association. Nice tactic.<BR/><BR/>What, actual, political reasons do you have for opposing an English parliament? I mean, apart from thinking that the people who want one are racist?Bill Haydonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08357811679771159469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-80875805009474963862007-05-02T12:05:00.000+01:002007-05-02T12:05:00.000+01:00Sir, This will be the SNP conundrum - 1) Nationali...Sir, <BR/>This will be the SNP conundrum - <BR/><BR/>1) Nationalism will create economic success. <BR/>2) Economic success will create immigration. <BR/>3) Immigration will destroy nationalismAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-84087263866079402202007-05-02T11:41:00.000+01:002007-05-02T11:41:00.000+01:00Here are some examples of the oft-repeated lies to...Here are some examples of the oft-repeated lies told by English nationalists:<BR/><BR/>"The Scots are allowed to debate the issue because their nation is "oppressed" by the evil English but the English aren't allowed to discuss their own independence."<BR/><BR/>That's a lie. There's no barrier to freedom of speech or ban on discussing English independence in the UK. In fact, I believe Simon Heffer has an article in today's Teelgraph calling for English independence. He wouldn't have done that if people "weren't allowed" to discuss it.<BR/><BR/>"English Parliament/ Scottish Independence, would stuff Labour virtually for ever" and also your comments about the Conservatives winning more seats in England. Both lies, as I've explained above.<BR/><BR/>"If England no longer had a Cabinet filled... with Scots"<BR/><BR/>Again, another lie. Of the 23 Cabinet ministers today just five are MPs from Scottish constituencies.<BR/><BR/>As for examples of hate-filled rhetoric, see the earlier post on here about previous posts on Mr Dale's blog calling the Scots parasites, scum, jocks, cockroaches, scroungers, racists and bigots, alcoholics, and all manner of offensive comments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-13820183931075336042007-05-02T10:42:00.000+01:002007-05-02T10:42:00.000+01:00Anonymous @ 9:07Sir,In the 2005 election the 'raw ...Anonymous @ 9:07<BR/><BR/>Sir,<BR/>In the 2005 election the 'raw data' was as follows:<BR/><BR/>Conservative 8,116,005<BR/>Labour 8,043, 461<BR/>Liberal 5,201,286<BR/><BR/>Whilst I do not support the case for an English parliament, as I believe we have that already, I do believe we need a major overhaul of our corrupt and unrepresentative electoral system. We need to put the heart back into this noble country and expunge all that is not good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-85601867894347300212007-05-02T09:43:00.000+01:002007-05-02T09:43:00.000+01:00The case for an English Parliament = a tower of li...The case for an English Parliament = a tower of lies and empty, hate-filled rhetoric. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Can you show us exactly what the lies are, please, and exactly what hate filled rhetoric is solely used to justify it, too? For exmaple, statements like "that is English identity - blinkered, stupid and cruel". That would count as hate but it came from...oh. As with that statement, most of the hate on this page has come from clowns like you.Bill Haydonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08357811679771159469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-13069814889752068212007-05-02T09:07:00.000+01:002007-05-02T09:07:00.000+01:00huwwaters, don't lie. Labour won 286 seats in Eng...huwwaters, don't lie. Labour won 286 seats in England at the last election compared to 194 for the Conservartives.<BR/><BR/>The case for an English Parliament = a tower of lies and empty, hate-filled rhetoric.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-76975597756792504302007-05-01T23:40:00.000+01:002007-05-01T23:40:00.000+01:00It's a Labour Party thing. I have no idea what the...It's a Labour Party thing. I have no idea what the English hear of Welsh issues, however those who ask for more devolved powers or to safeguard against a spiralling housing market instantly gets called a racist. Labour have tried developing a nationalism that is 'friendly' to them; one which only includes showing flags and other icons on a day of a sporting match.<BR/><BR/>Apparently the Welsh get an extra £5,000 per head than the English. Are the English happy with this? Or is this kind of lie only heard on the Welsh side of the border?<BR/><BR/>In the last general election (2005), if it wasn't for the Scottish and Welsh Labour MPs, the government of the UK would be Conservative.<BR/><BR/>The Welsh and Scottish will support an English parliament and through your cause, we'll have ours.Huwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06257288194791371197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-91242173021914487302007-05-01T17:03:00.000+01:002007-05-01T17:03:00.000+01:00Good grief, imagine who would stand for an English...Good grief, imagine who would stand for an English Parliament, or who would turn out to vote for such a thing! The latter would be very few in number, but that would only make them all the more dangerous! And the former would be "elected" from party lists! NOOOOO! <BR/><BR/>The SNP isn't going to win on Thursday, and support for independence in Scotland is now at pre-Braveheart levels, though continuuiing to decline. Plaid Cymru doesn't know what it thinks, and isn't worth thinking about.<BR/><BR/>So let's get on with rebuiling our country, Britain, with a strong Parliament and strong local government able to tell an overmighty executive where to go, an overmighty judiciary where to go, Brussels where to go, and Washington where to go. Isn't that what people in all parts of the United Kingdom want?David Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06839882674758833524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-43974576843332434502007-05-01T12:39:00.000+01:002007-05-01T12:39:00.000+01:00Is it any wonder people want to strap bombs to the...Is it any wonder people want to strap bombs to themselves and dent the repellent arrogance displayed on this page? <BR/><BR/>We clearly have neither the honour nor the bravery to face our past, and so are condemned to carry on making the same mistakes over and over. Maybe that is English identity - blinkered, stupid and cruel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-4692091549853031862007-05-01T10:37:00.000+01:002007-05-01T10:37:00.000+01:00Good point RogerGood point RogerNewmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-74015078733777123382007-05-01T09:16:00.000+01:002007-05-01T09:16:00.000+01:00English Parliament at least is a good way to flush...English Parliament at least is a good way to flush out the shrill 'self-loathers' who want to engineer the fragmentation of England into petty Regions.<BR/><BR/>This is an EU agenda. There is plenty of money and cosy offices to hand for those who show willing to further that cause.<BR/><BR/>The less someone earns a living, the more viscious and cruel will be their attempts to retain it.Roger Thornhillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01153744692290896812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-81949427465387575202007-04-30T23:40:00.000+01:002007-04-30T23:40:00.000+01:00"Ashamed to be English" -My English great grandfat..."Ashamed to be English" -<BR/><BR/>My English great grandfather died in the service of our country, as did my grandfather.<BR/><BR/>Both died at sea - fishermen, from Norfolk, who put the food on your plate.<BR/><BR/>I cannot be "ashamed" of that, for they neither enslaved, nor tortured nor conquered..they fished.<BR/><BR/>Any shame I have for my nationality is reserved for the last ten years of Tony Blair's ruining of this country....oh and scumbags like yourself who should fuck off to Iran or wherever it is you believe you can lead a shameless life.Wrinkled Weaselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05291551539649118631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-37801704430042702232007-04-30T23:08:00.000+01:002007-04-30T23:08:00.000+01:00Voyager said... English Identity is crystal clear,...Voyager said... <BR/><BR/>English Identity is crystal clear, it is British identity that looks very fractured in contrast <BR/><BR/>Spot on, Voyager.<BR/><BR/>Auntie Flo'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-84358862095493054952007-04-30T22:23:00.000+01:002007-04-30T22:23:00.000+01:00It might be true that the English are struggling w...<I>It might be true that the English are struggling with their identity,</I><BR/><BR/>Not so. English Identity is crystal clear, it is British identity that looks very fractured in contrastAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31554621500669657822007-04-30T21:57:00.000+01:002007-04-30T21:57:00.000+01:00Subject: A Lesson from Australia !!!Take heed from...Subject: A Lesson from Australia !!!<BR/><BR/>Take heed from "Down Under" :<BR/>Perhaps the Aussies have something here ?<BR/><BR/>Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on National Television.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Austral ia: one the Australian law and another Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said .<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want, to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It.<BR/> I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali and elsewhere, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians."<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>"However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia." "However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand." "This idea of Australia being a<BR/>multi- cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle."<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom"<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society : Learn the language ! "<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us."<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>"If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>"This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom:<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>"If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-27835422688691748442007-04-30T21:46:00.000+01:002007-04-30T21:46:00.000+01:00Woops, sorry for calling you Vlad, Vlad's friendAu...Woops, sorry for calling you Vlad, Vlad's friend<BR/><BR/>Auntie Flo'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-80197249016508075132007-04-30T21:45:00.000+01:002007-04-30T21:45:00.000+01:00Vlad said:Rationality would suggest the big regula...Vlad said:<BR/><BR/>Rationality would suggest the big regulatory tasks should go the EU (provided we can create effective democratic control), and the delivery of society and service should go to smaller cohesive societies. <BR/><BR/>One small factor you neglect to mention, Vlad, is the substantial number of us who are sick to the back teeth of the corrupt EU gravy train and all of those with their snouts in its trough. Nothing will convince us that this will ever be democratic. <BR/><BR/>Does a referendum for the people of England fit into this rational governance scheme? If not, it aint democratic, is it? And if so, the idea falls at the first hurdle because, first chance we get, the people of England are pulling out of the EU madhouse.<BR/><BR/>Auntie Flo'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-35549609382975279452007-04-30T21:35:00.000+01:002007-04-30T21:35:00.000+01:00As a Welsh republican I'm all for England being an...As a Welsh republican I'm all for England being an independent state and quite happy for Wales to take it's chances without any of these hand-outs we're supposed to be getting from London. Roll on the day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-41654060923179113832007-04-30T21:33:00.000+01:002007-04-30T21:33:00.000+01:00Vlads friend need not worry, the chances of someon...Vlads friend need not worry, the chances of someone with a brain so small he cant even create a simple English sentence being correct is so diminishingly small as to be statistically irrelevant. <BR/>Historically, the means for the governance of this country was through councils in their localities. Westminster was the national government therefore did meddle in Health, Welfare, Education, Planning etc and we were a great nation and Socialism and all its attendant evils had not been invented.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-8681052165853062532007-04-30T21:06:00.000+01:002007-04-30T21:06:00.000+01:00Putting aside history for a moment, the test shoul...Putting aside history for a moment, the test should be what organisations we need for the future? <BR/><BR/>Economic efficiency and effective clout in a shrinking world suggest that the regulation of economic activity, environmental management and the foreign affairs and defence is best done by aligning the largest number of communities that can be persuaded to cooperate. The delivery of civil society and services works best in small units where there can be effective feedback between the providers and consumers. <BR/><BR/>Rationality would suggest the big regulatory tasks should go the EU (provided we can create effective democratic control), and the delivery of society and service should go to smaller cohesive societies. <BR/><BR/>Westminster is the problem. Too small and already emaciated to have a real role in the big world, too big to deliver daily service to the people. To make progress Westminster has to go, and if the turkey don't vote for Christmas then they will have to have to send for Bernard Matthews. <BR/> <BR/>The Scots, Welsh and Irish have the advantage of being effective units for local delivery. Good luck to them if they want to go alone. <BR/><BR/>England remains too large and too diverse in attitudes, aspiration and needs to be managed as one unit, so what is to be done?<BR/><BR/>Which leaves me with a problem. What happens if John Prescott had the right answer? <BR/><BR/>HELP!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-76664637702404049242007-04-30T20:03:00.000+01:002007-04-30T20:03:00.000+01:00Ashamed to be English said:The things we have to b...Ashamed to be English said:<BR/><BR/>The things we have to be proud of are overshadowed by the shame of what we did in the name of England...<BR/><BR/>Get off your dung-hills and face up to the truth of what England is, or take the twelve bore into the shed and do us all a favour. <BR/><BR/><BR/>This is such wicked nonsense. <BR/><BR/>Around 90% of English people are descended from countless generations of poor rural labourers. The vast majority of our ancestors were never in the services and never benefited in any shape or form from slavery, colonialism or exploitation of anyone. <BR/><BR/>The following refers to Essex labourers, it would have been true of all rural workers across the length and breadth of England for many hundreds of years:<BR/><BR/>"Life for the Essex labourer is a bad as it can be. He toils like a slave, lives like a pig and all too often dies like a dog, with nothing to look forward to other than an old age of rheumatism and misery in the workhouse."<BR/><BR/>Essex Chronicle 1860<BR/><BR/>How dare you slur such decent, hard working English people who harmed no one in all their lives! In doing so, you are no better than the people who exploited them for their own purposes - because that's exactly what you are doing. <BR/><BR/>The majority of the people of England are good people and we don't deserve to have users like you living among us. Iy's people like you that I'm ashamed of.<BR/><BR/>If you hate England so much, why stay here, why don't you leave?<BR/><BR/>Auntie Flo'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-74505232146561119562007-04-30T20:01:00.000+01:002007-04-30T20:01:00.000+01:00And the official Conservative Party policy is...?T...And the official Conservative Party policy is...?<BR/><BR/>Thought so. <BR/><BR/>Just trying to keep us small 'c' conservatives happy by throwing us a bone to fight over with the NuLab rabble, eh, Iain?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-52414006435629869982007-04-30T19:13:00.000+01:002007-04-30T19:13:00.000+01:00There is no such thing as a "Celt".Incorrect. Tech...<I>There is no such thing as a "Celt".<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>Incorrect. Technically a "Celt" is anyone who belongs to the Celtic linguistic family. Anyhoo, genetic and cultural origins aren't what is under discussion here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com