tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post800295948982487552..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Tory Candidate Should Come Out FightingIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger70125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12273323298900562922008-01-29T22:54:00.000+00:002008-01-29T22:54:00.000+00:00Excellent post djm - very glad you did "let it all...Excellent post djm - very glad you did "let it all out".Oscar Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09423019456579337438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-15671603221206509782008-01-28T08:03:00.000+00:002008-01-28T08:03:00.000+00:00@ Klaxon at 13.58Thank you for your questions, sor...@ Klaxon at 13.58<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your questions, sorry I didn't reply sooner. I've been fairly perturbed at the reaction to this story from some of the posters on this thread, it's really not what I expected.<BR/><BR/>"DJM. Why are you a Tory? I am genuinely interested! Can you please tell us what made you realise you were a Tory?<BR/><BR/>There are differences between a Tory, a liberal and a socialist, and I am curious as to where you are on issues such as the monarchy, the importance of tradition, evolution versus revolution, personal freedom, the role of the state and the individual, attitudes towards family life etc."<BR/><BR/>I have great respect for the monarchy, I believe it enables our country to run effectively without a needless extra tier of politicians above those who are elected and appointed to perform a specific role, whether it be within their constituency or to advise in their field of expertise. Besides those factors, I believe that the Queen and her successors have the necessary knowledge and experience to be valuable and constructive counsel to the Prime Minister and his/her government.<BR/><BR/>On tradition, the people of my generation, and of generations to come, have a duty to preserve what is good about this country, and to challenge those elements which would subtract the basic elements of Britishness from it. If newcomers to this country, or others who feel differently to myself or others of the conservative persuasion who wish to add to the rich tapestry of British life by introducing new ideas and customs, they are welcome, but they should not do so at the expense of our great traditional values.<BR/><BR/>As for evolution versus revolution, I think it's important for conservatives to remember that Margaret Thatcher was a revolutionary figure, who managed to effect change in this country that would have been unimaginable to her predecessors in her eleven years in government. I would welcome change on such a grand scale again from the next Conservative government. Perhaps evolution won out versus revolution in the pre-Thatcher era, but in these times of landslides and political polarisation, we need bold statements and decisive action, things the Labour party have withheld from us for a long, long time.<BR/><BR/>On personal freedom, it's none of the government's business to tell people what they can and can't do in private with other consenting adults. Human rights should paramount above all other concerns, and although certain Conservatives in the past have had misgivings about issues such as homosexuality, abortion and freedom of expression, I believe there are much bigger and more important issues for the party to involve itself in. Namely, lower taxes, smaller government, less bureaucracy economic growth and political corruption.<BR/>The Labour party ceased to be socialist years ago, and is now a disagreeable European style autocratic social democratic party.<BR/><BR/>The role of the state is to butt out wherever possible. It's the people on ground level who know what is happening in their community, be they teachers, police, community workers or general members of society. I was absolutely infuriated recently when it was announce that it will be compulsory for all children to learn how to cook, and that time will be given over in the school curriculum for this purpose. It's condescending, irrelevant, unworkale nonsense from a group of people who are in government in name only. I think Conservatives would have more common sense than to to try and use their power in such a way.<BR/><BR/>As for the role of the state in foreign affairs, we should be a bastion of strength and a moral beacon for other countries. I feel Tony Blair managed to upheld this vision rather well, despite opposition from his so-called allies at home. It was Blair's steadfastness in the face of Islamist threats that kept me tied to Labour for so long, disregarding the ever-more ludicrous pieces of legislation (the despicable ID card scheme springs to mind) that his government continued to generate.<BR/><BR/>Attitudes to family life-I don't think it's controversial, or easily disproved, that children are more likely to have a happy childhood and a successful transition to adulthood if they are brought up in a two-parent environment. Obviously I will add the caveat that single parents are also capable of doing a fantastic job with their kids, but it's undeniable that the success rate is higher in a stable, two parent home.<BR/><BR/>Incidentally, it may be too early to judge, but I think that children who are being brought up by homosexual couples are more likely to have a stable and loving family life and reach adulthood unscathed by the myriad problems our youth faces today than those raised by single parents. I may be wrong, but my gut instinct is that two parents, of whatever gender, are better than one.<BR/><BR/>"For me, it is a belief that I know better than the state what is best for me, and that I should therefore have as much freedom over, and responsibility for myself as possible. Some would say that is a liberal belief - and I confess a love for Mill and 'On Liberty'!"<BR/><BR/>I'm big on Burke, Hume and Paine myself, but JSM has always given me food for thought. The state should always endeavour to limit itself and to reign in the impulses of passing fashion. I think that maybe once the Labour party understood the value of individual liberty, but that understanding was suffocated by their brief tastes of power. Right now, the country is gasping for breath.<BR/><BR/>I reckon this may be the longest post ever on this blog. Sorry, Iain, I just had to let it out!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-73257326699857917192008-01-28T02:07:00.000+00:002008-01-28T02:07:00.000+00:00Sea Shanty Irish here:Am rather confused, as here ...Sea Shanty Irish here:<BR/><BR/>Am rather confused, as here in the US conventional wisdom is that party switches are GOOD for the party that people want to switch to.<BR/><BR/>For example, just had a popular GOP state representative from Seattle suburbs switch to the Democratic party. Yeah for my team, the Democrats!\<BR/><BR/>Unless there is some kind of evidence that Ms Grant lied or otherwise misled the selection committee re: her sordid past, then fail to see what all the yelling and screaming is about.<BR/><BR/>Except of course to underline the ugly underbelly of Toryism, of course.<BR/><BR/>Which clearly does NOT include the likes of Iain Dale - no sour grapes, rather a class act.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-26619531916329948372008-01-28T00:17:00.000+00:002008-01-28T00:17:00.000+00:00Oscar - he would, but it would be the death knell ...Oscar - he would, but it would be the death knell of his blog. He'd be an insider pissing out rather than an outside pissing in!<BR/><BR/>I think that regarding the electorate, a large number will think her rather untrustworthy and vascillious.<BR/><BR/>Remember the profile of the constituency is not particularly meotropolitan which would appreciate such nuances. They had Mad Widdy for 20 years!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-49068176677703969782008-01-27T20:42:00.000+00:002008-01-27T20:42:00.000+00:00Klaxon - these are all fair points. I wouldn't wan...Klaxon - these are all fair points. I wouldn't want to comment too much on the specifics of this case - I just don't know enough. But to the wider non-Tory/uncommitted electorate I'm sure a candidate like Helen Grant is a huge asset. I'd also like to add I think Iain is being very magnaminous in the circumstances. I saw him on telly before I knew about his blog and spontaneously thought he'd make a very good Conservative MP.Oscar Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09423019456579337438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-88183914101217735462008-01-27T20:13:00.000+00:002008-01-27T20:13:00.000+00:00Gallimaufry - "And aren't the ideas of Burke, Disr...Gallimaufry - "And aren't the ideas of Burke, Disraeli, Churchill and Thatcher the common denominators of Tory thought?"<BR/><BR/>Not today. Sheer merit was a major pillar of Conservatism. Cameron instituted the A List.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12501420583710295832008-01-27T19:44:00.000+00:002008-01-27T19:44:00.000+00:00"Verity said... Gallimaufry writes: "not merely th..."Verity said... <BR/><BR/>Gallimaufry writes: "not merely the ethnically pure uber right to whom Verity appears to ally herself." What a stupid, blinkered, self-satisfied individual you are. (No offence.)"<BR/><BR/>Dear Verity, <BR/>Many thanks for your erudite and accurate assessment of my character. Nice that you resort to an ad-hominem attack. I couldn't say how much I admire you.<BR/><BR/>Given that women got equal voting rights to men only in 1928, democracy wasn't around for very long in Britain anyway.<BR/><BR/>Your cut-off-your-nose-to-spite-your-face attitude will merely put Labour back in government again. <BR/>And aren't the ideas of Burke, Disraeli, Churchill and Thatcher the common denominators of Tory thought?Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06358349301959327747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-42991436579934893552008-01-27T19:41:00.000+00:002008-01-27T19:41:00.000+00:00"Cameron's shift to the centre ground has attracte..."Cameron's shift to the centre ground has attracted some superb candidates!" Name one, Stephen Paine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-40375880919071605962008-01-27T19:24:00.000+00:002008-01-27T19:24:00.000+00:00I don't see the issue here - we all make mistakes!...I don't see the issue here - we all make mistakes!<BR/><BR/>Helen has already said that she is guided by Tory principles and values and, looking at her background, I can't see anything to contradict that.<BR/><BR/>Let's not dwell on the fact that the Conservatives haven't always been as open and liberal-minded as they are now, but the fact that Cameron's shift to the centre ground has attracted some superb candidates!Stephen Painehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01933756434656956347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-30820405765567743702008-01-27T18:49:00.000+00:002008-01-27T18:49:00.000+00:00Oscar Miller - interesting post.My objection is no...Oscar Miller - interesting post.<BR/><BR/>My objection is not that people who once supported/stood for other parties are now seeking office as a Conservative candidate, but the indecent haste with which these people jump ship and are rewarded with places on the candidate list, and the right to stand for Parliament.<BR/><BR/>For example - I once supported Labour and actively campaigned for them. But I didn't vote for them, as I was 12 at the time. However, I joined the Tory party 8 years later and have been a member for nearly two decades. I wouldn't expect my youthful mistakes to stand against me.<BR/><BR/>However, should I have only a few years ago been campaigning for Labour, I would expect there be a decent amount of time to pass before I was deemed fit to stand - even if only 'pour encourager les autres'! After all, if these people are confirmed tories, they won;t mind taking a few years to show that fact, and prove they are not simply after the job, salary and perks!<BR/><BR/>What the selection of this women, carpet bagger Bagshaw and all the others says is in a competition between rewarding principle and seeking electoral advantage, it will choose the later over the former. <BR/><BR/>I say you have both - there are plenty of excellent candidates and potential candidates who have not blotted their copybook with RECENT activity on behalf of another party!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-50673640285823806632008-01-27T18:44:00.000+00:002008-01-27T18:44:00.000+00:00Paddy Briggs - Before social cohesion and national...Paddy Briggs - Before social cohesion and national purpose were destroyed by the malign socialists, huge swathes of the world would say they "liked England", although they had never been there. A lot of people like Hugh Grant, although they have never met him.<BR/><BR/>Denmark has a strong, brave international personality and I like it.<BR/><BR/>How do you feel about America?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-42671317324005143472008-01-27T18:37:00.000+00:002008-01-27T18:37:00.000+00:00Newmania - I usually like your posts but profoundl...Newmania - I usually like your posts but profoundly disagree with you on this. From what I've heard Helen Grant will be a very good media performer. Moving across party lines does not make her damaged goods. Quite the opposite. But my point is a broader one about the relationship of political integrity/principles and handling the media. I clearly wrote Conservatives should NOT emulate New Labour's media manipulation which has had an obnoxious effect on public life. But reaching a "wider public" is mediated across a minefield of largely hostile press outlets. If that minefield can't be negotiated with some canniness - without compromising on principle - the party will never come to power. In fact I think this is precisely what Cameron has managed so ably and is one reason I support him so strongly. It seems to me a lot of party members live in a bit of a fantasy world where "true" Conservatives just need to say what they think loudly and clearly and eventually the population will 'see the light'. This just isn't the world we live in. It's as deluded as Michael Foot was in the 1980s. Image does matter. Media performance does matter. It doesn't automatically equal insincerity.Oscar Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09423019456579337438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-84039117312103230992008-01-27T18:29:00.000+00:002008-01-27T18:29:00.000+00:00Does your form really not ask how long someone has...Does your form really not ask how long someone has been a member and for their political history? And the future embarrassment question too? Scrolling down I see that Tony confirms the precise wording of the form and of course it does do.<BR/><BR/>It could well be that not all the selectorate were aware of any facts that were volunteered at this point in the form. Possibly because the powers that be contrived it like that. <BR/><BR/>Mark Pack seems a bit hopeful on any donation issue ...<BR/><BR/>[Thanks for the ugly plug and the clarification Diablo]Chris Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15679067503215414300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-85509379403877502482008-01-27T18:20:00.000+00:002008-01-27T18:20:00.000+00:00I don't doubt that helen Grant is an ambitious opp...I don't doubt that helen Grant is an ambitious opportunist, but isn't it good news that she chooses to jump ship to join a winning team?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-69856913710403296752008-01-27T18:14:00.000+00:002008-01-27T18:14:00.000+00:00I fail to see the criticism towards Iain Dale.It's...I fail to see the criticism towards Iain Dale.<BR/><BR/>It's either a fact or a 'guido'.<BR/><BR/>Remember one thing when John Bercow and Ed Vasey do come over to Labour, you bet your sweet little existence that we will milk this for days on end.<BR/><BR/>I can just see white papers waving in the commons as i write.<BR/><BR/>So by all means, put out a Labour memebr as a Tory candidate.<BR/><BR/>Big mistake that the US wouldn't fall foul off.<BR/><BR/>Hey, but this is Dave and Georgie's show!<BR/><BR/>GaryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-74519023837518029302008-01-27T18:03:00.000+00:002008-01-27T18:03:00.000+00:00Failing to mention, or emphasize and explain, rece...Failing to mention, or emphasize and explain, recent Labour party membership, recent Labour candidature application and Labour activism including recent donations to the Labour party must be reasonable grounds for deslection and holding a selection process again.hatfield girlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12673905475452420002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-32332921901690342002008-01-27T17:51:00.000+00:002008-01-27T17:51:00.000+00:00Verity"I do like Denmark, which I have never visit...Verity<BR/><BR/><B>"I do like Denmark, which I have never visited"</B><BR/><BR/>Excellent. Pretty much explains the nature of all of your posts. Never let knowledge interfere with prejudice...Paddy Briggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17847108655078927970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-37163055501632670302008-01-27T17:21:00.000+00:002008-01-27T17:21:00.000+00:00Verity -I have obviously mistaken your meaning. S...Verity -I have obviously mistaken your meaning. Sorry<BR/><BR/>Anon , Peter Hitchens howls at the moon but its fun to read and he is only an all licensed fool . The political meanderings of Ken Livingstone and the Labour Party`s, whorish support for him are more serious.<BR/>Ken would to be King.In eight of London`s Boroughs 60% of children in the school system speak English as a second language, if at all. Ken will be king of a country we can no longer call England .<BR/>Londonistan has been suggested but Kenland is an alternative.Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1530658604515253272008-01-27T16:59:00.000+00:002008-01-27T16:59:00.000+00:00I thought it was a bit rich of the Mail on Sunday ...I thought it was a bit rich of the Mail on Sunday to criticise Helen Grant for changing parties. The leader column derided her, and we were all ment to have a good laugh at her expense.<BR/><BR/>Then on the next page we had former Troskyite and Ken Livingstone supporter, turned ultra rightwinger Peter Hitchens!<BR/><BR/>Compared to his conversion, Helen Grant somewhat pales in comparison!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-73250150023425618582008-01-27T16:45:00.000+00:002008-01-27T16:45:00.000+00:00Another post full of meaty goodness, Newmania, but...Another post full of meaty goodness, Newmania, but where the hell did I ever praise the continent? Are you mad? I do like Denmark, which I have never visited, because their prime minister refused to meet with the mad mullahs, saying the Danish press was free to print what it likes. End of story. Blair would have had endless glasses of mint tea in Downing Street with the fragrant Inayat Bungalawangla.<BR/><BR/>But I don't believe I've ever had a good word to say for the continent in a generic sense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-18883038997374623882008-01-27T16:26:00.000+00:002008-01-27T16:26:00.000+00:00longstanding relationships we have with the people...<I>longstanding relationships we have with the people on the continent...</I><BR/><BR/>Phillip of Spain , Napoleon , The Kaiser and Hitler for example , yes we have had a long relationship and one we could have done without . The same is true today , when the mendacious Liberals are trying to grab power within a non elected PR court by supporting Brown’s Constitution lie and negotiating to trade for PR. So I` m not sure what Verity is on about when she praises the continent .<BR/>Having said that should Paddy Briggs decide that keeping his provincial bourgeois squeamishness to himself was a model for future behaviour the world would benefit immeasurably<BR/><BR/><BR/>Oscar Miller .-You have missed the point entirely , the fact this spavined political Tiny Tim cannot attack the opposition or speak with authority is exactly why she will be no use in the media. The leadership of the Party , David Cameron , Davies Hague and others broker the deal with the electorate true, but , she will hot help . Your parallel with New Labour is false . Conservatism is doctrine of realism and needs to clause four moment . In the case of Ms Grant he objectives are clearly only her own aggrandisement and so her ability to help in any way is hopelessly compromised , Conservatives have to reach out to the wider electorate not establish their lack of sincerity beyond all doubt .Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-17419643555953426052008-01-27T15:29:00.000+00:002008-01-27T15:29:00.000+00:00Iain's high-minded support for her is not likely t...Iain's high-minded support for her is not likely to be matched through the rest of the hard-working loyal membership. <BR/><BR/>A good day for UKIP I feel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-45353766971583283502008-01-27T15:05:00.000+00:002008-01-27T15:05:00.000+00:00This is more to do with getting media friendly peo...<I>This is more to do with getting media friendly people into the limelight - and not about getting real conservatives elected!</I><BR/><BR/>Imagine a Labour voter circa 1990 writing this and substitute "real socialists" for "real conservatives". It gets to the nub of a key conundrum - viz the relationship between political principle and the media. What IS the value of sincerity if the idea of "a real conservative" is going to be jeered at by a hostile press, frightening off voters just as much as the idea of "real socialists" turned them off in the 1980s? It's no politics at all to opt for "true" belief without winning anyone round or actively turning them against you. On the other hand what's the point of a political party that is so keen to gain support through pleasing the media it has no core principles left? Neither option is desirable. Personally I deplore the manipulations and deceit of the media control exercised by Mandelson, Campbell (and Brown). I also have to acknowledge it's brilliance. I don't advocate the Conservatives emulate it, but I think it's plain bonkers to behave as if media image isn't a prime consideration. Electability is everything. If you believe in the ideas you want them implemented - not to be consigned to the grumbling sidelines, watching a bunch of people who are willing to be cynical, deceitful and corrupt runaway with the prize of power. Presentation in today's politics is extremely important - it's one of the sillier shams for people to dismiss it as 'spin over substance'. There is no value in substance without communication. I know - I know - this is what the Cameroons are all about - I know it's precisely why so many Tories don't like Dave. My argument is - you don't have to throw away principle in order to embrace and value good presentation - adapted to suit the all invasive requirements of today's media. It's the world we live in and I want the Conservatives to come to power in the real world - not some fantasy of "real conservatives" in a parallel universe.Oscar Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09423019456579337438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-68099357737651065532008-01-27T15:02:00.000+00:002008-01-27T15:02:00.000+00:00IainI think that you really do need to reflect whe...Iain<BR/><BR/>I think that you really do need to reflect whether the sort of post made by Verity is of value for inclusion in your blog. I quote:<BR/><BR/>"I am sick to death of newcomer, ethnic promotion of foreigners who don't understand our ancient, thousands-of-years attachment to our own roots, and to the longstanding relationships we have with the people on the continent, of which this individual is not one."<BR/><BR/>Further comment on this sick-making bile is unnecessary - other than to say that it is unworthy of inclusion here and to suggest to the dreadful Verity that her version of truth is better vomited out on a BNP blog (if there is such a thing).Paddy Briggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17847108655078927970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-76033372941044984592008-01-27T14:59:00.000+00:002008-01-27T14:59:00.000+00:00This is how you pat someone on the back whilst pee...This is how you pat someone on the back whilst peeing copiously into her handbag.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com