tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post749763970195223004..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Telegraph Column: Nick Clegg is Right on TaxIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-30706381242376216812008-07-19T15:51:00.000+01:002008-07-19T15:51:00.000+01:00I think Tories could be a little more generous to ...I think Tories could be a little more generous to the LDs here without great loss. Liberals are not socialist and never have been - the party's traditions long pre-datethe arrival of the marxist weed in british soil BUT also sometimes the party's priorities have been derailed by the great swathes of former Labour folk who join it, from time to time. <BR/><BR/>The traditional liberals are concerned with the freedom of the individual, the small state, and - post-grimond - the environment. Where liberal policy sometimes looks like labour's is where the social liberal conscience takes root - the idea that privilige is unhealthy and that to ensure social mobility the state does have to intervene, if only to make the local schools actually educate.<BR/><BR/>None of this, i think, is that far from DC's stance.<BR/><BR/>i suspect that we're seeing the start of a new realignment, and the long slow death of labour, which began with the sdp, move forward.<BR/><BR/>I always remember a nutshell guide to the politics of the 80s: Labour wants to equalise society downwards, the Tories want to leave things as they are (as long as they themselves are okay) but the Liberals want to raise everyone up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-87854893300225645962008-07-19T10:35:00.000+01:002008-07-19T10:35:00.000+01:00Anonymous said..."We must reform the welfare syste...<B>Anonymous said...</B><BR/><BR/>"We must reform the welfare system because we have a stubborn real unemployed of over 5 million people."<BR/><BR/>Heaven forbid that we might consider providing good well-paid jobs for English people. Anything but. Obviously.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-57911912290482616072008-07-19T10:29:00.000+01:002008-07-19T10:29:00.000+01:00Newmania said... "There are however ample intellec...Newmania said... <BR/><BR/>"There are however ample intellectual resources in the Party to reinvent itself and are suffering nothing like the disconnect of the Militant days ."<BR/><BR/>That's wrong I'm afraid.<BR/><BR/>The disconnect of the Militant days was between the Party and its best activists. There is now a huge disconnect between the Party and it voters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-17918293692661851682008-07-19T00:05:00.000+01:002008-07-19T00:05:00.000+01:00The problem I have with your column is that is ign...The problem I have with your column is that is ignores the long-term fiscal challenge that Gordon Brown has presented to the British people.<BR/><BR/>For nearly seven years, Government expenditure, recurring, organically growing, has lead to a fiscal deficit that is structural.<BR/><BR/>This presents a number of challenges for the British economy and for the taxpayers. We do not have the capacity to meet the demographic shift, and the resulting increase in pension and healthcare costs. We must meet healthcare inflation upwards of 9% p.a. We must reform the welfare system because we have a stubborn real unemployed of over 5 million people. So we have a number of challenges.<BR/><BR/>However, by arguing that tax cuts under these circumstances results in a positive step, is to confuse populism with policy. I can advocate tax cuts, but that will only ensure that the next generation pays for the mistakes made today.<BR/><BR/>We need an economic policy that works for the long term and incorporates lateral thinking. This means combining traditional fiscal policy with behavioural economics and finance as well as sociology and psychology. <BR/><BR/>This is nuanced and difficult to argue in simplistic terms. It is, therefore, incumbent on columnists to explain that this is the type of strategy that needs to be taken. Simplistic "tax cut" calls no longer cut it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-59756675088991633572008-07-18T19:34:00.000+01:002008-07-18T19:34:00.000+01:00I voted for Nick Clegg as leader hoping for a radi...I voted for Nick Clegg as leader hoping for a radical change and that's what we are getting. I think some of you commentators, Iain, forget that none of this wouls have been announced without Vince Cable having given his go ahead, and Vince is hardly an 'Orange Book' liberal.<BR/><BR/>What people are missing is that Clegg is different to every other leader we have had in the post war period in that he represents an urban area where he is much more aware of the pressures that people are under at the moment. These proposals are intelliget and designed to reduce a burden that is no longer acceptable. Liberals are caring people and I think you will be surprised at how muted the criticism's will be. The party is dominated by its councillors. These are people who like to have money to spend, but they are also people in contact with residents on a daily basis and are well aware of the increasing levels on hardship. Parties change and evolve. As the Tories become a parody of new Labour, something was bound to change - nature abhors a vacumn.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05589409310709797194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-87663078513555396522008-07-18T17:13:00.000+01:002008-07-18T17:13:00.000+01:00Totally O/T. A familiar eccentric commenter on thi...Totally O/T. A familiar eccentric commenter on this blog had a guess of sorts at Iain’s recent ‘Worst Political Autobiography ever’ post. He had this to say over on his own blog:<BR/><BR/>‘Though the answer is obviously NOT sock puppets' and coastal chip shoppes' fave John Prescott.’<BR/><BR/>The man simply has an uncanny talent. I wish he'd give betting tips, so you'd know which horse to avoid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19588213787449225292008-07-18T16:16:00.000+01:002008-07-18T16:16:00.000+01:00This is fantasy land. There is no choice now. The ...This is fantasy land. There is no choice now. The public fiances are in a royal mess, with the PSBR running at unsustainable levels. There is no scope for tax cuts, so there is no point in promising them. That promise will have to be broken. As it is public services will have to be cut, but without any corresponding benefit in lower taxes. Brown knows this. And he knows that he is probably going to loose in 2010. So he is about to abandon his 'rules' and go for broke - literally - knowing that the next Conservative government will have to clean up the mess, thereby incurring the wrath of the electorate as 'essential services' are culled. And none of this involves the possible impact of the EU Commission's policing of our financial profligacy. <BR/><BR/>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/07/18/bcnbrown318.xmlRichard Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02021997075923737760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-55774461802299312772008-07-18T15:55:00.000+01:002008-07-18T15:55:00.000+01:00Iain - the Clegg tax announcement rang a bell with...Iain - the Clegg tax announcement rang a bell with me as a life long Tory voter. Cutting taxes by giving a much more generous personal allowance for those in work up to £10k and then removing tax breaks on EIS schemes, venture capital, PEPS/ISAs and imposing NI all the way up the salary scale would be very welcome as it would and encourage more people off benefits into work. It would as well give low and middle income families a real but non inflationary boost in income at this difficult economic time.<BR/><BR/>I hope Camneron/Osbourbe take note - a tax cut at the bototm end via more generous personal allowances would be solid 'one nation Tory' policy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-336962071677522242008-07-18T14:18:00.000+01:002008-07-18T14:18:00.000+01:00It comes to something when the middle class-appeal...It comes to something when the middle class-appealing Liberal Democrats are the Party advocating tax cuts.Michael Heaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18272163090245223974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-83824087459320369682008-07-18T13:40:00.000+01:002008-07-18T13:40:00.000+01:00Hmmm but thats today's policy, might change by the...Hmmm but thats today's policy, might change by the weekend. It has not been that long since the LibDems were campaigning on bigger taxes, so not a lot of credibility there.<BR/><BR/>The Libertarian Party is not about cutting taxes, but getting rid of taxes other than for the legitimate role of defence.<BR/><BR/>The deeper we go into this recession radical changes are going to be needed to reduce this bloated state.Guthrumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17499979740864497256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-6780698603274609162008-07-18T13:24:00.000+01:002008-07-18T13:24:00.000+01:00Iain, it just isn't going to happen.Iain, it just isn't going to happen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-44534990492909889652008-07-18T13:02:00.000+01:002008-07-18T13:02:00.000+01:00Iain, you profoundly misunderstand Liberalism as u...Iain, you profoundly misunderstand Liberalism as understood by Liberal Party post-, ooh, post-1880 or something like that.<BR/><BR/>Ever since Radical Joe with his "gas and water socialism" cames along, the Liberals haven't believed in this warped Cobdenite vision of "freedom" being the freedom of the rich to enjoy even more of their wealth while the poor have the freedom to starve and the freedom to go cold. Even your beloved neo-liberal Gloriana Imperatrix from Grantham didn't share this demented obsession with tax cuts.<BR/><BR/>As Liam Fox points out, a Tory Government may not be able to fund tax cuts for the wealthy (though tax cuts for the poor are imperative, they shouldn't be paying it in the first place). The middle classes are hardly uncomfortable (second holiday or a new car, anyone?) so the realities of Britain 2010 come first.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-27073268528334310722008-07-18T12:46:00.000+01:002008-07-18T12:46:00.000+01:00Why would Cameron say he that would cut taxes when...Why would Cameron say he that would cut taxes when DC knows that's not possible?<BR/><BR/>Nick Clegg can promise things that he can never deliver because he knows he will never be PM. However, Cameron might be PM - so he is right to be sensible and realistic about tax.<BR/><BR/>Don't promise what's not possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-11639710594882898222008-07-18T12:34:00.000+01:002008-07-18T12:34:00.000+01:00You are quite right about it being more than time,...You are quite right about it being more than time, in the current economic mess. to ditch the "sharing the fruits of growth" between government & us. NJothing would encourage investment more than a cut in corporation tax & a promise that, as the economy grows the tax rate will fall to ensure that the tax take doesn't rise. With that Britain could achieve the &% growth rate Ireland managed by cutting CT.<BR/><BR/>The questions arising are whether (A) Clegg really means it & (B) whether his party would allow it in actuality rather than merely as a promise (the SNP having got into power on similara promises seems laoth to keep them).<BR/><BR/>Since I was & remain expelled from the party purely for suggesting exactly the same, plus saying that if we let half our electricty go down the lights will go out, I am unconvinced that this promise is worth its paper.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-44880298190003779532008-07-18T11:46:00.000+01:002008-07-18T11:46:00.000+01:00The State is bloated and overspending-a cut is nee...The State is bloated and overspending-a cut is needed to fund those much needed tax cuts.<BR/>PS..callind ID a Lib Dem is a bit like calling Dave experienced!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-7182790272016803352008-07-18T11:28:00.000+01:002008-07-18T11:28:00.000+01:00I agree with fellow bloggers here that Brown is go...I agree with fellow bloggers here that Brown is going to leave an empty treasury and a large overdraft in the form of borrowing, and it is foolish even to utter the words 'tax cut' by accident. I also agree that Clegg has as much chance of forming the next government as me becoming the<BR/>next Wimbledon Champion. Like typical LibDems his is a delirious<BR/>verbage meant to catch headlines. What Brown has done is to point out successfully the current economic problems we all have as being cooked and served from across the big pond. The Tories rising support is some what amorphous and tax cuts for pensioners like me as Clegg suggested might win him a few gray votes, but it has be substantial to offset the price hikes of all sorts to attract subtantial middle England which is a non-starter. The lowest paid who might benefit will not vote Tory whatever Cameron says and they in large numbers are found in the North which is a traditional Labour land, which I am sorry to say is a'benefit land' largely, and will not be swayed by tax cuts if Brown puts fear of public service cuts in to their minds. I thought David Davies did enough of distraction and we hear the report of Coleman (GLA) running up a taxi bill the size of my annual pension.<BR/><BR/>It is best to let Clegg stew in his<BR/>fanciful juice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-35321650818406872822008-07-18T11:19:00.000+01:002008-07-18T11:19:00.000+01:00Owes more to recent polling trends than anything e...Owes more to recent polling trends than anything else. It's a very sensible mitigation strategy.<BR/><BR/>Given the complete lack of integrity on Lisbon, Clegg's biggest problem is convincing the electorate that anything in the liberal manifesto is worth the paper it's written on.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure Mr. Pickles and his henchmen will major heavily on this point come the next election.Colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16949877777934292635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1051969941671888002008-07-18T11:03:00.001+01:002008-07-18T11:03:00.001+01:00They've got the right soundbite on tax, not all th...They've got the right soundbite on tax, not all they have to do is stop making unfunded spending commitments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-11775047336960096192008-07-18T11:03:00.000+01:002008-07-18T11:03:00.000+01:00Cutting taxes would be liberal. However the Libdem...Cutting taxes would be liberal. However the Libdems aren't liberal. Don't be fooled that they have dropped their statist agenda.<BR/> Having said that us Conservatives are only slightly conservative. Moderation was/is always the mantra. Lefties have always incorrectly painted us as reactionary.<BR/> As for Labour, they know nothing of the value of money and hard work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-47103876428709855912008-07-18T10:51:00.000+01:002008-07-18T10:51:00.000+01:00Iain, you, like the Liberals, will never get a whi...Iain, you, like the Liberals, will never get a whiff of real responsibility, so you can afford to be macho on tax.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-40552062372026644282008-07-18T10:47:00.000+01:002008-07-18T10:47:00.000+01:00Norman -I used to live in Islington and I know exc...Norman -I used to live in Islington and I know excatly what you mean. Last time I looked that prat James Kempton was relying on one nutty green .<BR/><BR/>The comments seem to have a theme that we get it .We are too broke for tax cuts.Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-21799427141128080112008-07-18T10:41:00.000+01:002008-07-18T10:41:00.000+01:00If the libdems can have the brass neck to stand th...If the libdems can have the brass neck to stand their traditional policy on its head and hope to get away with it - then might a few people in the labour party fantasise about what they might do if they get rid of Gordon Brown ??<BR/><BR/>Meantime - why should returning Tories vote libdem, no matter what their policies if its likely to result in keeping labour in power?<BR/><BR/>I think the conservative policy and principles are fairly clear and have been for some time. Tories will follow good housekeeping rules (I think that was Camerons phrase), they will spend wisely and tax as little as possible.<BR/><BR/>On spending I would like to raise one point - look at police and the army. We desperately need MORE spending there. Latest news is 2 police were attacked by a mob for having the temerity to ask a girl to pick up litter (one in hospital suffering from bite wounds). We need more police, more aggressive police in the face of thugs and street crime. Its hard to make tax cutting pledges stick in the face of these harsh facts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-50949075026940305412008-07-18T10:31:00.000+01:002008-07-18T10:31:00.000+01:00moral victory my foot! Clegg is desperate as he se...moral victory my foot! Clegg is desperate as he sees the opinion polls moving in the wrong direction for him and his group.<BR/><BR/>I have suspected that iain is a closet Lib Dem for some time, he is certainly, in my view on the honourable left of the Tory Party. Perhaps he would like to see a fusing of the Lib Dems with the Conservatives. There are one or two good people in that group, BUT, after the election will they be there.<BR/><BR/>It is also worth pointing out that the vast majority of Lib-Dem supporters up and down the country will certainly not welcome this announcement. <BR/><BR/>I think I am right, but doesn't the Lib Dem Conference dictate policy?. So if anything it is just a soundbite and will be quickly forgotten.<BR/><BR/>Cameron and Co. have a major problem with the Nation's finances and they will inherit an almost bankrupt country.<BR/><BR/>I believe, as I have mentioned, that they should promise in their manifesto that they will have a root and branch audit of the Nations Finances and promise to publish that audit.<BR/><BR/>Only then, when the full extent of the problem facing us all is shown, will they be able to plan ahead on what tax rises or cits they can make.<BR/><BR/>There is one obvious area that can save us a great deal of money,Iain, and that is the EU.<BR/><BR/>IF Cameron was to promise a referendum IN or OUT (as the Lib Dems want!) and the majority said OUT the savings would be immense.strapworldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18228784526399929300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53507912886009093022008-07-18T10:17:00.000+01:002008-07-18T10:17:00.000+01:00Could the Right of the LD and the "liberals" of th...Could the Right of the LD and the "liberals" of the Tory parties merge to form a New Liberal party?Old BEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974090439936326476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-27188350335499772662008-07-18T10:14:00.000+01:002008-07-18T10:14:00.000+01:00'We think of the Libs as a dull permanence ,a fain...'We think of the Libs as a dull permanence ,a faintly irritating ache . Sometimes it plays up, buts always there. This is an illusion.In the progressive sixties the Liberal vote collapsed to 2,000,000 and the Party was almost wiped out .The SDP “event “ saved the beards and that reached its zenith in the lection of 1983. They scored 25.4 %( Labour only got 27.6%) up from13.8%. So if we are going back to real Liberal Party lets remember how small it was . The birth of the modern party , its “new” moment ,was all about yoking together irreconcilable positions and mushing them into porridge . Socialists ,and preening antiquarians have rubbed along with a motley crew of animal rights campaigners wimmin and assorted whingers. Their rag tag crusade has no steady course ,but like any asymmetrical army they use whatever anyone leaves behind . Luckily there has been plenty of carrion for the scavengers since …<BR/>When the Labour Party became infected with Marxist dominated activism, and Trade Union power, in the 70s ,it made itself unelectable . This gave the Liberals some meat and eventually they consumed the SDP , or visa versa. The Conservative Party then took over by refusing to believe no-one liked them after Major, and being sent to cultural Coventry . The Liberals darted to the left vacated apparently by New Labour and began doing business as real Labour . So at each stage since the 60s the Liberals have fed on some structural weakness with the big two. <BR/>We are now in what is , in my life , a unique period .New Labour are unpopular because of the economy a drift left and general arrogance born of power. There are however ample intellectual resources in the Party to reinvent itself and are suffering nothing like the disconnect of the Militant days .The Conservative Party has roared into life , alive with ideas and lean from ,long years of famine and both crowd the middle .Notwithstanding the current polls it is quite possible the next General Election will be close. In those circumstances the current flat line of 18 % would look like living high on the hog and the Liberals risk returning to a tiny Party of assorted protests , a status 2/3 of the electorate granted them in a recent survey . It could be the end for' three , (not two) Party politics' <BR/>Clegg`s implausible side step is born of fear not hope . As he told Martin Bright , (discussing a Lib Lab pact) 85% of Liberal seats are ex Conservative seats and with their being no good reason not to vote Conservative his MP`s are sweating profusely . All thoughts of “leading the attack against Labour “ in its heartland , are gone .<BR/>As a desperate Political strategy this makes sense but Politics is not just a game , the idea is that you wish to achieve something other than a spot on Question Time . People judge your sincerity by consistency and willingness to be unpopular . The Liberals Party will find rebranding is a game of diminuishing returns......<BR/><BR/>Thats wot I finkNewmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.com