tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post6860126060668826499..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Labour Is Responsible for the Rise of the BNPIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger172125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78785110697427350712009-10-27T14:09:14.633+00:002009-10-27T14:09:14.633+00:00"A late night post that you might regret in t..."A late night post that you might regret in the cold light of day. On immigration I suggest that you listen to Michael Portillo who talks rather more sense. Perhaps you need a holiday Iain. This type of smear is unworthy of you..." <br />What the hell are you talking about? You clearly can't see sense.Magical_Misthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07446193963152993371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-48014948917691342222009-10-25T22:17:47.607+00:002009-10-25T22:17:47.607+00:00Iain
If the past 12 years have taught us anything...Iain<br /><br />If the past 12 years have taught us anything then you should realise that Labour are never, ever to blame for anything. <br /><br />End of story, nothing to see here, let's move on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-91011960648922941562009-10-25T21:33:19.559+00:002009-10-25T21:33:19.559+00:00Fascist movements are never, ever working-class. T...Fascist movements are never, ever working-class. They are lower-middle-class, with a few upper-class cranks hanging about and paying the bills. The BNP is exactly like that. A ward-by-ward or box-by-box breakdown of its vote fully confirms this.<br /><br />There is no reaching the BNP constituency. It is a ghetto of people obsessed with race, which most of us simply are not and never will be. They used to vote NF if they could get it, Tory if they couldn’t. But now, because so many other people no longer vote, they are sufficiently numerous among those who still do to be able to maintain the BNP. But it’s vote didn’t go up this year. Other people’s went down, by means of abstention. The key is to get those people back out to vote.<br /><br />That certainly does involve addressing national sovereignty (including, but very far from restricted to, the EU) and immigration, among many, many, many other things. It involves making a stand against polygamy, face-covering (not head-covering, but face-covering), Muslim schools, animal sacrifice, genital mutilation of both sexes, and domes and minarets on British skylines. (Halal meat is a serviceable weapon in the armoury against the hunting ban.) And that’s just Islam. There are other things, too. Mass immigration is at least as much an economic project of the neoliberal Right as a cultural project of the liberal Left. Indeed, rather more so.<br /><br />Getting people back out to vote also involves tackling white working-class concerns about jobs, working conditions, housing, and public services. New Labour is of course the perfectly logical union of the economically neoliberal Right and the culturally liberal Left, now accepted by all three parties. So let’s give ourselves proper alternatives. To bring people out against the BNP. But mostly just because it’s the right thing to do. What are you doing?<br /><br />However, none of this is about reaching BNP voters. They are a lost cause. It is about bringing out those whose abstentions aid the BNP by default. But more than that, it just happens to be right anyway. I’m doing my bit. How about you?David Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06839882674758833524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-62841172521055833232009-10-25T20:34:55.920+00:002009-10-25T20:34:55.920+00:00Iain, you say "I hadn't realised that Bla...Iain, you say "I hadn't realised that Blackburn, Burnley, Rotherham, Dewsbury, Dagenham and Barking had ever been Conservative constituencies".<br /><br />Just for the record, Dewsbury was a Conservative seat from 1983 to 1987. Barking and Dagenham were both marginals that the Tories narrowly failed to take at the same time. So was Blackburn. There is a clear linkage in Barking and Dagenham between the collapse of the local Tory and Lib Dem organisations and the rise of the BNP. Neither the Tories nor the LDs ran full slates of candidates in B&D in 2006 (almost uniquely in London) so anyone wishing to vote against the Labour Council was driven into the arms of the BNP.<br /><br />There is very little point getting into a blame game about who caused the rise of the BNP. The point is to stop it. And the evidence so far is they fade away when the three main parties go back into an area and start grassroots campaigning there. People vote BNP when they think the main parties don't care because they never see them, so those of us who are activists in all three major parties have a responsibility to build our party structures in areas where the BNP are strong.Luke Akehursthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13816948099482224640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-20982761970115079652009-10-25T19:23:06.350+00:002009-10-25T19:23:06.350+00:00I love the comment that Howard lost by a landslide...I love the comment that Howard lost by a landslide in 2005. Since when has an overall majority of 66 been a landslide?LMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-58516333774420732412009-10-25T18:51:02.701+00:002009-10-25T18:51:02.701+00:00Clearly the BNP gain more support from ex-Labour v...Clearly the BNP gain more support from ex-Labour voters. It is no wonder. Wearing my Union hat I have had the 'pleasure' of meeting some of the Labour placemen (sorry placepeople) in areas like the rotten Borough of County Durham. I would vote for almost anyone except them. I really can't sum-up their absolute corruption in words - and I pride myself in being able to turn a phrase!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31615018307981955712009-10-25T18:34:42.687+00:002009-10-25T18:34:42.687+00:00Iain, please use your influence within the Conserv...Iain, please use your influence within the Conservative Party to persuade David Cameron and the other big guns that they must address this shocking revelation about the Labour governments secret plan to impose massive multi-culturalism on the UK.<br /><br />If the Conservative Party fail to tackle this scandal head on then I fear that the BNP will gain huge impetus amongst alienated and angry voters.Pete from Sheffieldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-58149973284758125282009-10-25T16:54:25.916+00:002009-10-25T16:54:25.916+00:00Unsworth..2.14.
Nice to see you are a gallant lose...Unsworth..2.14.<br />Nice to see you are a gallant loser.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-39363256538669639242009-10-25T15:23:52.502+00:002009-10-25T15:23:52.502+00:00Hey, Iain, leave Braindead Bob 'Comments 0'...Hey, Iain, leave Braindead Bob 'Comments 0' Piper alone. He is comedy gold. Check his spoof piece on the glorious Thatcher years below.<br /><br />It is a spoof, isn't it? :-(<br /><br /> <br />'A nationally controlled police force, undercover hit squads of thugs terrorising Northern towns, using MI5 for illegal phonetaps of whole communities, closing the roads around whole counties, stopping legitimate protesters from leaving Kent, controlling the BBC to reverse film footage to show their thugs being attacked by the police instead of the other way round, preventing elected politicians voices being broadcast... that's authoritarianism'Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03548952483363828857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-5010010377454955292009-10-25T14:14:25.388+00:002009-10-25T14:14:25.388+00:00@ Anon 1:09 AM
Irrelevant? In your view.
And no...@ Anon 1:09 AM<br /><br />Irrelevant? In your view.<br /><br />And no, I really do not have the patience to read through all of that guff. Why not start a blog for yourself and then those who may be interested in your extended views can indulge themselves.Unsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307116169498533047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12162593013695265842009-10-25T13:27:11.476+00:002009-10-25T13:27:11.476+00:00@Jo,
Paragraph 1 - I too wouldn't be here if ...@Jo,<br /><br />Paragraph 1 - I too wouldn't be here if we didn't accept migrants either. My father was born abroad, and I have a non-English surname.<br /><br />Paragraph 2 - Nations and borders have existed for thousands of years. I assume you're referring to "the Nation State" which is more recent, but much older than you suggest. And if there's no such thing as Britishness, is there no such thing as Englishness, Welshness, Scottishness, Irishness, Frenchness? You are entitled to your view, but I don't think many people in the world share it.<br /><br />Paragraph 3 - We have almost 3m unemployed in this country, plus millions more on incapacity benefit many of whom are capable of some kind of work. Short answer to your question: "Welfare Reform".Neil Anoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-45045924093834676032009-10-25T13:21:01.517+00:002009-10-25T13:21:01.517+00:00Thank God for Anglezarke.
Of course the country n...Thank God for Anglezarke.<br /><br />Of course the country needs more immigrants. We aren't even going to be sustainable financially without probably 10million more coming. <br /><br />There's masses of space here, from Lancaster to Glasgow it could be Newfoundland the population is so sparse. There's also plenty of room in North Kent, South essex and East London.<br /><br />Immigration has been improving this country since the Romans came in 44BC and brought civilisation to the blue painted inhabitants.<br /><br />I think these BNP people should have to prove their DNA before they claim they're indigenous British.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-23554067327455564032009-10-25T12:21:32.642+00:002009-10-25T12:21:32.642+00:00I don't understand why people oppose immigrati...I don't understand why people oppose immigration so much - I wouldn't be here and a lot of others wouldn't either if we didn't accept immigrants.<br /><br />Also there is no real concept of 'Britishness' - there were no nations or borders until the onset of capitalism/industrialisation - fundamentally what it comes down to is the assumed power people think they have over their country. The British Empire certainly favoured immigration when it suited them economically. <br /><br />We actually need more immigrants into the country from where I'm standing. Polish workers in Somerset drive a large percentage of our buses which has enabled a lot of bus services to continue. There is still a shortage of British people who want to drive a bus for little above the minimum wage. What is your answer? I suppose cut services...Jo Simmondshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08173301860988169386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-28816684073397532672009-10-25T12:17:22.552+00:002009-10-25T12:17:22.552+00:00Saying people are silly/ stupid for disagreeing wi...Saying people are silly/ stupid for disagreeing with you seems to be the done thing on this site. On this thread it starts in the very first contribution.<br /><br />Calling people silly here however is only ever complained about as an "old chestnut" when anti- racists say it back about racists and their unknowing helpers though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12303197539308785022009-10-25T11:50:58.633+00:002009-10-25T11:50:58.633+00:00Ah, the old "if you don't agree with me y...Ah, the old "if you don't agree with me you must be silly/stupid/racist" chestnut.Neil Anoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-75983953514329696542009-10-25T11:02:05.629+00:002009-10-25T11:02:05.629+00:00@anonymous 9:51 am
Nice resort to the old "i...@anonymous 9:51 am<br /><br />Nice resort to the old "if you don't agree with me you must be silly/stupid/racist" chestnut.<br /><br />I agree that to some extent the "anti-Labour vote" coalesces around the BNP (although you must mean the Tory/UKIP vote as I doubt LibDems and Greens would do any coalescing) but what you are ignoring is the question "Why are the people of this council estate in Lancashire anti-Labour?". These are often areas where Labour would in the past get over 2/3rds of the vote, whoever they put up as a candidate. I don't think the Tory/UKIP vote in those areas could ever be enough to give victory to a BNP candidate, however much they coalesced. Besides which I am sure there are many anti-Labour voters on the right who would never dream of voting BNP.Neil Anoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19055647797502902262009-10-25T09:51:42.642+00:002009-10-25T09:51:42.642+00:00The BNP win in Labour areas because the anti- Labo...The BNP win in Labour areas because the anti- Labour vote there congregates around them.<br /><br />It's the 50% of the constituency who would never vote Labour. Alf Garnett has been mentioned here as the classic example.<br /><br />Labour supporters aren't racist. That's one of the reasons why they're Labour supporters. The racists stopped voting Labour forty years ago. <br /><br />You have to be pretty ignorant not to grasp this but then opposition to immigration and opposition to the EU requires a level of silliness that people here revel in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-21166187294535895402009-10-25T08:29:53.866+00:002009-10-25T08:29:53.866+00:00@Jo Anglezarke,
I absolutely accept that not all ...@Jo Anglezarke,<br /><br />I absolutely accept that not all BNP support comes from the working class, and quite a number of their leadership are educated, middle class people. There are some "middle class" areas where they are strong (Epping in Essex for example). But I don't think there's really any doubt that the electoral fortunes of both Fascists and Communists depend on motivating working class voters to support them. I think it comes down to the tight grip that the wealthier classes have on society's gravy train. There are two ways to look at it from the working class; a) Be aspirational and try to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" and leave the working class or b) become part of a movement that is going to "smash the old order" and give you what you deserve. B) is pretty much the rhetoric of both Fascism and Communism. Most comfortablely-off individuals are not especially attracted to the idea of smashing an order that has served them well.<br /><br />And I slightly resent the idea that "faintly attacking immigration" means that people (including the Tories) are racist. Let me be quite clear- if immigration into the UK were to continue at the rate of 20,000 people per year, and as a consequence in 200 years time white europeans were a minority, I wouldn't have the slightest problem with it. Not because I'd obviously be long dead, but because at that rate of immigration the new arrivals would be absorbed and assimilated, they would adopt UK cultural attitudes and habits (albeit bringing some additional flavour and changing those attitudes/habits over time), they would learn and use the English language, and feel a proper sense of identifying with and being loyal to the UK (or at least to England/Ireland/Scotland/Wales). They wouldn't be Celt, Anglo-Saxon or Norman-French, but they would without question be "British".<br /><br />However if we carry on accepting immigration at the current rate (over 200,000 per year at least, not that the government really knows) then it is likely we will end up with a fragmented, balkanised Britain where English is the language of mutual understanding for everyone but the first language only of a minority. "Britishness" (or Englishness/Scottishness etc) will cease to mean anything other than the physical location in which you live. That is the pervasive fear that rapid immigration creates in the population. And it doesn't just concern the white population. Many people in existing immigrant communities are worried about "their" Britain changing and losing what makes it special to them. Go and speak to young, Westernised women of Bangladeshi or Pakistani origin who have "gone British" and drink, dance, live independently. See what they think about the area where they live receiving an annual injection of thousands of new arrivals from the old country, with their traditionalist thinking and religious values.<br /><br />I'm sorry but if what you are saying is "Opposing immigration is racist and no mainstream party should countenance it" then what you are doing is leaving the field clear for the BNP to hoover up the votes not of a few percent but of the majority of the population.Neil Anoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-9306271444282417052009-10-25T08:08:16.485+00:002009-10-25T08:08:16.485+00:00The Donut has it pretty much:
http://www.guardian...The Donut has it pretty much:<br /><br />http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/table/2009/jun/09/european-elections-elections-2009<br /><br />UKIP did extraordinarily well because xenophobia is more a la mode than racism, though the two tend to go together.Quietzapplehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15422598703061456846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-37156642407870696012009-10-25T07:42:58.195+00:002009-10-25T07:42:58.195+00:00Simon Lewis said...
"Nothing wrong with get...<b>Simon Lewis said... </b><br /><br />"Nothing wrong with getting people into plug the labour gap."<br /><br />Labour gaps??? Would that be anything to do with the doctors who can't find jobs because they get given to foreign medical staff? Or the British IT staff who have not been able to work in IT this century as the market has been rigged so that foreign staff can be used???<br /><br />There's a lot of money to be made from pretending there is a shortage of British staff.<br /><br /><br />"That is what the new deal is for."<br /><br />The New Deal is crap. The Flexible New Deal is exactly the same rubbish with a slave labour option. You think the working class are a bit miffed with the NuLab traitors? Wait til they fully realise that New Labour means New Slavery. Should be nicely in time for the general election.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-42795210578822174372009-10-25T07:29:05.935+00:002009-10-25T07:29:05.935+00:00I am sorry but if you believe that the BNP are a f...I am sorry but if you believe that the BNP are a far left fascist party then I have absolutely no respect for your politics. It shows a rather niaive view of politics, a lack of historical knowledge and an inability to contectualise events, political movements and ideologies. It is those sort of comments, along with a list that is forever growing, that convinces me never to vote Tory ever in my life!Wavidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-57891754329431962632009-10-25T01:09:09.111+01:002009-10-25T01:09:09.111+01:00Unsworth.6.27.
Your question is irrelevant,like I ...Unsworth.6.27.<br />Your question is irrelevant,like I said.<br />Let me explain.(Be patient)<br />Have you ever been to one of those 'brainstorming'sessions? You know the ones...where management are totaly clueless at what they are doing so they 'pretend' to be clever and get us real thicko's to give them the answers & us being the thicko's we are...give them everything they need to go back to their bosses and take all the credit.<br />Well that is what will happen here.<br />People will'brainstorm'with themselves.<br />They will look at Labour's track record.Labour's actions,lies, smears and come to the conclusion they wouldn't put it past them. Then they will look at the immigration figures & give the guy the benefit of the doubt.Why should he be the 'liar' when everyone knows that it is Labour who are ALWAYS lying.So in Joe public's mind they will have the following thoughts;<br /> <br />Labour are liars(proven many times)<br />Labour Hate the English.<br />Labour HATE the Tories.<br />Point scoring is what Labour do.<br /><br />Immigration- unfetted,<br />encouraged,muslim extremists unchallenged,sham court appearances Labour KNEW would fail because of the human rights crap.<br /><br />Average Joe will believe Labour would do this and that says MORE about Labour's standing in this country, than it does about the people who are willing to believe Labour would do something like this.<br />So you see it makes no difference whether it was a 'conspiracy' or not.Joe public will view it more as whistleblowing.<br />The proof is out there.<br />Everything will now appear to 'calm down' the Bnp will be off the radar for a while,then a poll will emerge that 'jolts' them back into view, because Labour and their nasty,vile,spiteful actions have some how managed to con the media to hide the truth.<br />The British ARE great,but push them until they turn and they WILL NOT turn back until they GET WHAT THEY WANT.A lesson a lot of people are not going to like.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-57133722536104608742009-10-25T00:00:20.837+01:002009-10-25T00:00:20.837+01:00Can't remember the figures, but I'm pretty...Can't remember the figures, but I'm pretty sure that in the areas that the BNP won in on the European Election, BNP support had actually gone DOWN in real terms, but not as much as Labour had.<br /><br />So basically, the ex-Labour voters couldn't bring themselves to vote for ANYONE, let alone the Tories in the area, and the intractable bigots carried on as they always did.<br /><br />So the very thing that you're criticising Labour for is not sticking to the left wing policies that you and the Tory party are against, which has driven them to abandon all engagement with politics.<br /><br />The answer, then, to eliminate the BNP, assuming that individuals can't have their political views significantly altered, is to support and encourage the legitimisation of left wing values in the labour party, though it may stick in your craw.Donut Hinge Partynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-79313702136662880222009-10-24T23:46:06.899+01:002009-10-24T23:46:06.899+01:00Well said Mr Dale.
Not only have Labour pushed i...Well said Mr Dale. <br /><br />Not only have Labour pushed immigration to rub the right's nose in it, but they have proved unwilling to help solve the inevitablecultural problems that have accompanied immigration.MixTogetherhttp://www.mixtogetherandfriends.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-48226434597948177082009-10-24T23:42:12.421+01:002009-10-24T23:42:12.421+01:00I think people should try and dig themselves out o...I think people should try and dig themselves out of the pit of blaming the working class for the rise of the BNP (which I saw hinted at in Neil A's comment). Whilst this is in part explained by the working class not owning or earning much and therefore being more protective of it it doesn't always follow that BNP support comes from the working class.<br /><br />Nick Griffin went to Cambridge himself - I find the only difference between m/c and w/c fascists to be language. W/c fascists can't be bothered to hide it while m/c BNP supporters hide it behind other issues so they can faintly attack immigration without appearing racist.<br /><br />Much like the Tories actually. This is why the Tories will lose w/c support to the BNP.Jo Simmondshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08173301860988169386noreply@blogger.com