tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post6711764420400123666..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Has David Davis's National Debate Been Sparked?Iain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-34985683086088180332008-07-10T09:16:00.000+01:002008-07-10T09:16:00.000+01:00Davis would have been credit if he had stood as in...Davis would have been credit if he had stood as indy 42 day candidate<BR/><BR/>As far as I can see he oppses 42 days and CCTV and DNA data base<BR/><BR/>(yes the DNA data base they have used to solve over one hundred rapes!)<BR/><BR/>Of and David support for hanging<BR/><BR/>Yes hanging the Birmingham Six was just what we should have had<BR/><BR/>and as Home Secretary he would have signed the order<BR/><BR/>oh God save our LibertiesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-11731384025745173212008-07-10T01:26:00.000+01:002008-07-10T01:26:00.000+01:00"It is not what a man thinks and says but when and..."It is not what a man thinks and says but when and where and to whom he thinks and says it! - A man with a flint and steel striking sparks over a wet blanket is one thing, but striking them over a tinderbox is another. " - Abraham Farland, A Matter of Life and Death 1945.<BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGFJamy3CQg&feature=relatedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-43067037452284428522008-07-10T00:14:00.000+01:002008-07-10T00:14:00.000+01:00"more than a third (35%) changed their minds when ..."more than a third (35%) changed their minds when told this and agreed it is not right to hold someone who may be innocent for so long.<BR/>"<BR/><BR/>Had they asked me I would have said it was outrageous they only kept burglars in for 6 weeks AS WELL AS saying it was outrageous to hold people for that length.<BR/><BR/>Talk about a false dichotomy!Roger Thornhillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01153744692290896812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-42655201548084652512008-07-09T23:58:00.000+01:002008-07-09T23:58:00.000+01:00On the particular subject of the retention of DNA ...On the particular subject of the retention of DNA for those acquitted or never charged, why do I think that the powers that be are one step ahead of us here? What's the betting that the information has been entered in such a way that retrieving the data of the above catagories is impossible? The argument will then be that because this data set cannot be removed it would be unfair for those already on the system if the practice of harvesting similar data in the future is discontinued.<BR/>There is a sort of twisted logic there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12972651423742880662008-07-09T20:11:00.000+01:002008-07-09T20:11:00.000+01:00African Mum raises an interesting point about CCTV...African Mum raises an interesting point about CCTV camera, we suppose that the data they collect ought to be kept securely under lock and key, yet somehow some of it reaches YouTube. I've found some <A HREF="http://curly15.wordpress.com/2008/07/08/privacy-and-photography/" REL="nofollow">here</A> that appears to come from "official" sources.<BR/><BR/>You just cannot be sure that the watchers are trustworthy these days.<BR/><BR/>When Davis returns to the House I think we can be assured that certain debates are going to become a lot sharper!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-38869053420627283012008-07-09T20:03:00.000+01:002008-07-09T20:03:00.000+01:00there is barely an MP, even of his own party, who ...<I>there is barely an MP, even of his own party, who will say privately that what he has done makes any sense at all.</I><BR/><BR/>And yet the public think it does makes sense . Of course if New Labour really cared about terrorism they would not have filled the country up with hordes of people that hate us in the first place would they Tom .Incidentally if Iain Dale does get his beloved English Parliament what are you going to do ? Go inter-railing ? <BR/><BR/>Fair deal Phil …if it is so difficult to make the case in a month ( The entire resources of the Police being committed to bothering drivers and filling forms ),parliamentary oversight can only be a rubber stamp. The evidence will consist of the Police giving their interim solemn promise that the perp is a wrongun .All I can say is its lucky the Police never make a mistake . Phew… thats alright then<BR/><BR/>(PS Do they still have inter -railing , or did the lizards stop it ?))Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19114344778134624772008-07-09T19:07:00.000+01:002008-07-09T19:07:00.000+01:00Well, here's one part of the debate, David Icke in...Well, here's one part of the debate, David Icke in action. (Warning, over 2 hours long, and the giant lizards might get you!)<BR/><BR/>http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4799447112501062338&q=4799447112501062338&ei=aqJzSKXlE5SK2wLd6JGoAQAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-72015106435635704962008-07-09T18:56:00.000+01:002008-07-09T18:56:00.000+01:00Glyn Davies is standing up for sacked bloggershttp...Glyn Davies is standing up for sacked bloggers<BR/><BR/>http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics-news/2008/07/09/sacked-blogger-s-taking-case-to-tribunal-91466-21308104/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-46125878522451066932008-07-09T18:49:00.000+01:002008-07-09T18:49:00.000+01:00perhaps someone sgould tell conservative home abou...perhaps someone sgould tell conservative home about this survey. They haven't mentioned it up 'til now. Yet they've posted two stories proving that DD's campaign has been a complete waste of time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-82438605646614954222008-07-09T17:34:00.000+01:002008-07-09T17:34:00.000+01:00Iain, you list half a dozen people against 42 days...Iain, you list half a dozen people against 42 days and ask:<BR/>'Need I go on?'<BR/><BR/>Er, yes please: <BR/><BR/>here's another half dozen people listed in the Sunday Telegraph who are FOR 42 days:<BR/><BR/>1. Sir Ian Blair, current Metropolitan Police Commissioner, who gave evidence to the Commons' Counter-Terrorism Bill standing committee in favour of 42 days.<BR/> <BR/>2. Peter Clarke, former head of Scotland Yard counter terrorism command. He's concerned about the current 'race against time' to retrieve evidence buried in the encrypted files of dozens of computers and says: "We should legislate now, and not in panic in an emergency. <BR/><BR/>3. Lord Carlile, the Liberal Democrat peer and Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation who says "I do really appeal to people to read this legislation before rushing to judgement."<BR/><BR/>4. Sir Hugh Orde, current chief constable of Northern Ireland argues that the 42 detention plans would not be a return to internment, a term which still has highly charged connotations in the Province. <BR/><BR/>5. Graham Foulkes whos son was was killed in the July 7 London terrorist attacks. <BR/><BR/>He told the BBC's The Politics Show: "It's wrong to place a higher value on being detained for six weeks than on people's lives." <BR/><BR/>6. Ann Widdecombe, Conservative MP...<BR/><BR/>need I go on?fairdealphilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246131944479743426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-81451147972554324652008-07-09T14:48:00.000+01:002008-07-09T14:48:00.000+01:00Erm, no, Iain. It hasn't been sparked.Erm, no, Iain. It hasn't been sparked.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78247069019008385622008-07-09T14:46:00.000+01:002008-07-09T14:46:00.000+01:00Anonymous @July 09, 2008 11:19 AMI think you're co...Anonymous @July 09, 2008 11:19 AM<BR/><BR/>I think you're confusing my words - I'm not endorsing 42 days, quite the opposite. <BR/><BR/>I think members from all parties who have any loyalty to the country which they serve should stand shoulder to shoulder and attempt to defeat it - NOT use the debate to score points. That's what I'm getting at. <BR/><BR/>I'm my mind this isssue isn't so much about how bad Gordon Brown is, it's about how we can stop more errosion of our civil liberties. <BR/><BR/>Those who support this bill think that innocent people wont get caught up in it are deluded.<BR/><BR/>This is bigger than the paries, and all (sensible) ministers should take a step back and consider the future they are creating.<BR/><BR/>p.s. I love how because I'm not singing DD's praises I'm assumed to be a Labour troll when I'm nothing of the sort.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-23166644009699892092008-07-09T14:26:00.000+01:002008-07-09T14:26:00.000+01:00I agree with your last point Iain - that DD's effo...I agree with your last point Iain - that DD's efforts at promoting a debate will be dwarfed by the debate in the Lords. The fact is, no-one is taking any notice of the by-election. That's not Labour's fault for not standing; it's DD's fault for sparking it in the first place. I admire your loyalty to him, but there is barely an MP, even of his own party, who will say privately that what he has done makes any sense at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-23041490376901678792008-07-09T14:11:00.000+01:002008-07-09T14:11:00.000+01:00Alex is mistaken. Public opinion has been turned a...Alex is mistaken. Public opinion has been turned around, mostly by keeping the focus on the subject.<BR/><BR/>I've seen articles in This Week, The Economist, The New Statesman as well as all the other press over the last month. Its the sort of coverage you can't buy.<BR/><BR/>In addition DD has been on Question Time and Any Questions and any other list of appearances.<BR/><BR/>The Government has been forced from its initial smears and derision, to having to engage - if through proxies and hastily arranged speeches - on the issue.<BR/><BR/>Also other have been emboldened to make a stand on the issue. ( Not something you can directly measure, but highly important ).<BR/><BR/>David Davis has also captured the popular imagination - silencing the cynics in Westminster.<BR/><BR/>Gordon Brown has been shown to be a coward who lacks the courage of his convictions (running away from the election - <I>again</I>), but still wishes to destroy centuries old freedoms that are part of our very identity for his narrow personal political advantage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-81843058738924919462008-07-09T14:05:00.000+01:002008-07-09T14:05:00.000+01:00This poll raises another very big issue.Just what ...This poll raises another very big issue.<BR/>Just what a punk (in the meaning 10th rate) leader the Tories now have.<BR/>Don't forget that liberal Dave was less than generous or supportive of DD and will now undoubtedly jump on the bandwagon and take any kudos on offer.<BR/>DD will always carry the black stain of Maastricht but even a sinner can earn forgiveness.<BR/>How in the heck did the Tory party collectively vote in a lightweight waffler like Shameron when they could have had the substance of DD.<BR/>If ever this has been shown up its over their comparative behavior on the 42 days.rosiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00032680013780447537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-2606357916655126122008-07-09T13:59:00.000+01:002008-07-09T13:59:00.000+01:00Sorry, losing my persective in my previous post an...Sorry, losing my persective in my previous post and ignored the headline question.<BR/><BR/>No. It hasn't. It should have but it just hasn't.Lolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04586735342675041312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-74637651402422198762008-07-09T13:53:00.000+01:002008-07-09T13:53:00.000+01:00Morally and financially bankrupt administrations e...Morally and financially bankrupt administrations everywhere in the world and throughout all of history tend to totalitarianism. They have nothing else.Lolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04586735342675041312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-22540877346808008622008-07-09T13:50:00.000+01:002008-07-09T13:50:00.000+01:00"Neither do various former Metropolitan Police Com..."Neither do various former Metropolitan Police Commissioners."<BR/><BR/>But last night the loyal bbc managed to find one for the PM programme. He did sound to me like he's a bit thick though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-58755668324377627122008-07-09T13:32:00.000+01:002008-07-09T13:32:00.000+01:00Iain, I almost became david Davis's opponent.In th...Iain, I almost became david Davis's opponent.<BR/><BR/>In the end, it was best that I didn't but part of me regrets that decision.<BR/><BR/>My stance would have been to oppose 42 days as almost all of my Labour friends(99.999%) are against it.<BR/><BR/>David Davis should target what police actually have on record for anyone 'questioned'.<BR/><BR/>There is some sort of service available whereby members of the public can gain access to this information and then maybe those whose lives are intruded may join in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-67958980014556967512008-07-09T13:27:00.000+01:002008-07-09T13:27:00.000+01:00It may indeed be that the Lords would have rejecte...It may indeed be that the Lords would have rejected the 42 day proposals anyway, but that just sends it back to the Commons.<BR/><BR/>On ID cards, the Commons sent the bill to the Lords 5 times before there was a capitulation by the Lords because they believed the government was going to use the Parliament Act in any case. I think we can assume that the Lords would have refused to pass this similarly horrible bill whatever DD had done.<BR/><BR/>But then it goes back to the Commons - does anyone really think that the Commons will continue to send it back again and again? Particularly as it becomes clearer and clearer that, once people understand what it means (and you need a debate for that), support for 42 days doesn't hold up.<BR/><BR/>Personally I can't help but think that if DD hadn't made his stand that we would have had a similar situation with ID Cards, lack of debate enabling the govt to claim that this is what the people and the democratically elected house wants, and that in the end the bill would have been passed. That seems massively more unlikely now. If and when this proposal is put to bed the country will have him to thank. Well done DD.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-50130249566788949582008-07-09T13:22:00.000+01:002008-07-09T13:22:00.000+01:00For a burglar to actually serve 42 days, he would ...For a burglar to actually serve 42 days, he would have to be sentenced to 240 days. Non-violent offenders only serve 25% of their prison sentence and all prisoners currently have 18 days cut from their sentences to reduce overcrowding. <BR/><BR/>So, 240/4 = 60days -18days = 42daysAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-16211685953679541872008-07-09T13:06:00.000+01:002008-07-09T13:06:00.000+01:00How many people actually know that your DNA can be...How many people actually know that your DNA can be kept if you're a witness to crime? Or if you help out someone in distress? A man in my local area saw a female motorist being beaten up by some man. Stopped to help. Police were called, and DNA of ALL 3 were kept. This guy's father has been remonstrating with police to get his son's DNA off the database, the police aren't interested.<BR/>We've heard of tots' fingerprints being kept when they borrow school library books. One lady in my local area smacked her toddler son who was running into traffic. She and her husband got a knock on the door as she was seen on CCTV?! It was in the local paper. And they were interviewing she and her husband to see if the little one should be taken away.<BR/>I'm not sure many people know how bad things are.<BR/>Plus, you could serve the equivalent of a 3 month sentence in jail without knowing why you're there. And we're lecturing Zimbabwe! <BR/>This vote is basically a pathetic attempt by Brown to make Tories look soft on terrorism. Sadly there are too many useful idiots in this country helping out Nu Labour in its quest to make England history.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-84278751468687747072008-07-09T13:02:00.000+01:002008-07-09T13:02:00.000+01:00Iain the whole issue is about to be given a shot i...Iain the whole issue is about to be given a shot in the arm by the quite astonishing plans the mis-government has to allow anonymong witnesses at the drop of a Police Helmet. You of all people know the sort of slavering sputum spouted by the anons and now it is to be introduced the country of open justice .Its all so .....f---ing typical. What does a government do faced with an epidemic of violence and terrified witnesses ?<BR/><BR/>1 Bang Up The violent and let it be know that if anyone so much as says ''knife' and they are doing serious time <BR/><BR/>2 Pretend it is not happening by devoting endless Police resources to falsifying figures <BR/><BR/>3 Make calling the Police so pointless the problem of reported crime disappears in a puff of statistics <BR/><BR/>4 Take back the Streets from the thugs so witnesses have nothing to fear<BR/><BR/>5 Write a perjurers charter for anonymous witnesses.Allow the Police to decide who is guilty or not and desecrate of our s near sacred rights enshrined in our history and coincidentally/unnecessarily against EU human rights law<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>1 No<BR/>2 Yes<BR/>3 Yes<BR/>4 No<BR/>5 YES<BR/><BR/>This has got to be stopped . It is a more serious matter than detention without trial which is a tactical judgement .It strikes at the heart of everything we know to be justice .As Conservatives we can express our horror without any of the ambivalence that I , at least , felt about the proposed detention , couched as a matter of principle .<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Please DD ..get onto this immediately we are on a ship with an insane Captain and in deadly peril.Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-49334150123220331382008-07-09T12:48:00.000+01:002008-07-09T12:48:00.000+01:00Simple answer - no. A few more people are asking o...Simple answer - no. <BR/>A few more people are asking opinion poll questions, one more interview on the subject is held on Radio 5, DD will be re-elected without proving anything at the cost of his front bench career and hundreds of thousands of pounds. The Government still holds the same view. The Lords will still defeat the measure. <BR/>Sorry, but it's been a waste of time.Alex Folkeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11935545078513255086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-45244632184068557392008-07-09T12:41:00.000+01:002008-07-09T12:41:00.000+01:00The 42 days proposal has already served its only p...The 42 days proposal has already served its only purpose. It has enabled Gordon Brown to imply that the Tories are soft on terrorism. Unfortunately for him, no one is listening. <BR/><BR/>Now, typically, he finds himself in a fight on ground not of his choosing, and where the outcome is uncertain. He must be the most unskilful politician of the age; utterly blinkered by his obsession with the Tories.<BR/><BR/>(Further evidence of ineptitude: Lecturing the great British public on the need to conserve food before sitting down to a fifteen course banquet. Can you imagine that happening in Alistair Campbell's day?)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com