tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post6451533893788814952..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Reasons for an English Parliament: No 94Iain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-61473766914410256572010-10-15T13:50:32.432+01:002010-10-15T13:50:32.432+01:00Two words...
Barnett consequentialsTwo words...<br /><br />Barnett consequentialsRyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13192255421261476660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19365413275413512322010-10-15T12:36:59.978+01:002010-10-15T12:36:59.978+01:00When are you going to raise this when you appear o...When are you going to raise this when you appear on the tv Ian? Apologies if you already have, but I've never heard you mention it.Home Rule for Englandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11415935742164517207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-385143056424881732010-10-15T10:19:09.024+01:002010-10-15T10:19:09.024+01:00Salmondnet:
I did not mean my post to be a descri...Salmondnet:<br /><br />I did not mean my post to be a description of 'blackmail' as you call it. I am born and bred in Essex - as English as they come. I'm not threatening anything. I'm merely explaining the consequence of such an unwise constitutional change.<br /><br />If you don't care about the Union then it's not going to bother you. Fine; I respect, but don't agree, with that statement, but you may as well campaign straight for the breakup of the Union instead of the painful, temporary halfway house of English devolution.<br /><br />I know full well that Scots would have no problem with England having its own parliament, and I don't blame anyone for thinking it makes sense. It works in theory, but not in practice.<br /><br />While in principle it is desirable, in reality it would be inherently unstable. Those in favour of the Union should oppose it. Those who don't care about the Union should not even bother with it.<br /><br />And your comment about doctrinal self-interest is insulting. Unlike you, I have studied the issue closely. I used to support a federal Britain - I now appreciate it is impossible.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03883672661196856711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-8469847018527779332010-10-15T08:41:14.051+01:002010-10-15T08:41:14.051+01:00Malden: Ah, the usual "Union will break up&qu...Malden: Ah, the usual "Union will break up" blackmail. It is of course an empty threat. If the Scots or Welsh wish to leave there is only one sensible answer - bye then, best of luck. Don't forget to pay all your banking bills before you go and to close the border firmly behind you.<br /><br />Actually, there seem to be very few Scots who would wish to deny the English a separate Parliament, either within or without the Union. The opposition comes mostly from the British political class for their own doctrinal or electoral reasons.Salmondnethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04135160187810480222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19252303741038986252010-10-15T00:02:05.009+01:002010-10-15T00:02:05.009+01:00Absolutely not, Iain. I'm afraid it has a lot...Absolutely not, Iain. I'm afraid it has a lot to do with the Scots. England is 85% of the Union in terms of population and economic clout, so England's spending decisions have unavoidable and huge ramifications across the border.<br /><br />An English parliament would accelerate the breakup of the Union by making England go in its own direction without consideration of its fellow British countries, prompting them to secede.<br /><br />Your choice - English sovereignty or maintenance of the Union. English devolution within the Union would only start the slippery slope.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03883672661196856711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63200495181047223652010-10-14T23:54:34.293+01:002010-10-14T23:54:34.293+01:00It'd be much easier just to prevent Scottish m...It'd be much easier just to prevent Scottish mps voting on non-scottish matters, instead of setting up another parliament.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06700000391117667931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-66467555924538692322010-10-14T23:52:40.804+01:002010-10-14T23:52:40.804+01:00The political elite keep banging on about their &q...The political elite keep banging on about their "passionate belief in the Union". Truth is, the Union died when the Scots and Welsh opted out, back in 1999. They now enjoy an autonomy they cannot actually afford. It has to be paid for by English taxpayers.<br />I have no problem anymore with Scottish and Welsh autonomy; only with having to finance it.<br />If there really is a "Union" then each nation within it must be treated equally. The Welsh Assembly must be upgraded to parliament status, England must be granted its own parliament, and each country must finance itself. (No more Barnett Formula.)SomersetScouserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08466868821011885877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-59204557217341384192010-10-14T23:39:53.306+01:002010-10-14T23:39:53.306+01:00Could I introduce a note of principle here.
The Un...Could I introduce a note of principle here.<br />The United Nations Charter reognises the right of all nations to self-determination. It stresses that the colonial power has no say in the matter.<br />The English are one of the most civilised nations on earth, so they tend to think the biggest compliment they can pay is to regard another nation as 'one of us'.<br />With great respect, I am not English, and the English are not Scots. The sooner we go our separate ways, the better for both nations.Hamishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07401451754373118599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-32791030470588637202010-10-14T23:11:49.327+01:002010-10-14T23:11:49.327+01:00Oh Aglinsky - things the French do affect us but w...Oh Aglinsky - things the French do affect us but we do not have a vote in the French parliament.<br />English issues are a matter for English MPs not Scots.<br />So called 'effects on scotland' are just a transparent excuse for scottish labour MPs to still dictate to england.<br /><br />I fail to see the need for an expensive English parliament; the scottish local govt is already a waste of time. english votes for english matters.<br /><br />Interestingly my WV is 'minglyba' which I believe is defined as dribbling rubbish spoken by ageing and/or drunk scottish politicians.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-24218359512512091452010-10-14T22:42:45.502+01:002010-10-14T22:42:45.502+01:00Two failed Scottish Lib Dem leaders, it needs to b...Two failed Scottish Lib Dem leaders, it needs to be pointed out.<br /><br />'mists' as the wv puts it so succinctly.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17774822085901274565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-2244300471536748882010-10-14T22:10:30.364+01:002010-10-14T22:10:30.364+01:00Yes!Yes!Yes! A Parliament for England.Yes!Yes!Yes! A Parliament for England.i albionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02594201137299918298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-39610178959988739962010-10-14T21:39:30.263+01:002010-10-14T21:39:30.263+01:00It would have been terrible in 1989 for an Englsih...It would have been terrible in 1989 for an Englsih tory gov't to have inposed the poll tax on aScottinsh electorate,For the record as we don't have a Welsh or NI parliament but a devolved chamber, if we have an english parliament then we shlould have a Welsh one too,johnpaulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03978755044345580501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-25823498998906643222010-10-14T21:15:34.818+01:002010-10-14T21:15:34.818+01:00The only reason why Charles Kennedy is sticking hi...The only reason why Charles Kennedy is sticking his oar in is because he's concerned about the effect on Scottish Universities - he couldn't give a damn about students from England. (The reason why English students in Scotland have to pay when Scottish students don't is that the Lib Dems <b><i>insisted</i></b> on this as part of their price for joining a coalition with Labour in Scotland).<br /><br />Kennedy is a hypocrite with no democratic mandate to interfere in any matters in England that have been devolved to Scotland.<br /><br />The lack of an English Parliament is a running sore that will end up poisoning the Union if it isn't dealt with - and soon.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02948105455433369982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-56391844822308714932010-10-14T20:23:47.465+01:002010-10-14T20:23:47.465+01:00That Gordon Brown started it all off with using Sc...That Gordon Brown started it all off with using Scottish votes against the wishes of the english!<br /><br />At least Tony instigated policies the Tories could at a stretch help implement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-49318232411249649912010-10-14T20:10:52.659+01:002010-10-14T20:10:52.659+01:00Well said Iain, Charles Kennedy is quite the hypoc...Well said Iain, <a href="http://toque.co.uk/charles-kennedy-revolting" rel="nofollow">Charles Kennedy is quite the hypocrite</a>Garethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10021800974251370747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-13058881922912204252010-10-14T20:09:01.949+01:002010-10-14T20:09:01.949+01:00Definitely.
Perhaps if we had an English parliam...Definitely. <br /><br />Perhaps if we had an English parliament spending English taxes on England we could afford to help our own youngsters get a decent start in life. And sort out all the other areas where the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish get a better deal than we do.<br /><br />Home rule for England.Wyrdtimeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16640021224868439090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-27020350605378824372010-10-14T19:41:09.693+01:002010-10-14T19:41:09.693+01:00In response to Campbell and Kennedy's various ...In response to Campbell and Kennedy's various defenders, for 300 (ish) years English MPs voted on Scottish matters and Scottish MPs voted on English matters. This is known as reciprocity.<br /><br />Scottish MPs now vote on English matters while English MPs can not vote on the same matters in relation to Scotland. This is known as undemocratic.<br /><br />English MPs had no vote on the fees regime of Scottish Universities. Scottish MPs should have no say on the fees regime in England.<br /><br />Obviously decisions in one country will often have indirect effects on the other. That does not justify a system which allows only one of the two countries an extraterritorial vote.Salmondnethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04135160187810480222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-92074986524380441732010-10-14T19:39:36.716+01:002010-10-14T19:39:36.716+01:00Well. tell Wavy Davy then. He could initiate the p...Well. tell Wavy Davy then. He could initiate the process easily.MikeyPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02628881766409720006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-67488854011185579052010-10-14T19:17:15.656+01:002010-10-14T19:17:15.656+01:00Where do I sign up?
The Campaign for an English P...<i>Where do I sign up?</i><br /><br />The Campaign for an English Parliament - http://www.thecep.org.uk<br /><br /><i>Trouble is an English parliament is a a break up of the union by another means. It, in effect, would be England declaring UDI.</i><br /><br />Rubbish. Devolution is power loaned, not given away. It acknowledges the supremacy of the British government.<br /><br /><i>The English need a non-xenophobic serious pressure group to put the case. Set one up Iain!</i><br /><br />There's been one since 1998, the Campaign for an English Parliament - http://www.thecep.org.uk<br /><br /><i> didn't notice you or any other Conservatives complaining in the 1980s, Mr.Dale, when English MPs lined up to ram Conservative policy through in Scotland even though English constituencies were unaffected.</i><br /><br />There haven't been any English MPs since 1707 when the English Parliament was replaced with the British Parliament. It was British MPs in the British government. And it wasn't even the same situation - there was devolution in the 80's so every British MP had the same moral right to vote on any law because there was only one parliament.<br /><br /><i>No, not a whole parliament that would be a stupid exercise in bureaucracy/ Requiring a majority of English MPs to vote in favour of issues affecting only England would be a good idea.</i><br /><br />No it wouldn't. For a start it's what 7 out of 10 people in the UK (not just England) want. A Grand Committee of British MPs elected in England is not the same as a devolved government.wonkotsanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04896256040598397497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-52926672486495818062010-10-14T19:17:02.073+01:002010-10-14T19:17:02.073+01:00English Parliament, anyone?
Yes please.
B, its t...<i>English Parliament, anyone?</i><br /><br />Yes please.<br /><br /><i>B, its the right thing do do?</i><br /><br />No, it's wrong for any MP elected in Scotland to vote on something for England that is devolved in Scotland.<br /><br /><i>but why shouldn't Scot MPs contribute to the debate, given that we do not have one as yet?</i><br /><br />And how many MPs elected in English constituencies debated tuition fees in Scotland?<br /><br /><i>Not only will the plans for English fees have an impact on Scotland, but this is how our system works.</i><br /><br />The system is wrong. Having no fees in Scotland impacts England - it deprives English universities of students from Scotland because they don't want to pay for education when they can get it free at home.<br /><br /><i>To save costs, I wouldn't want an English parliament, but simply to prohibit votes of MPs from areas where the subject of the vote is a devolved matter in their constituency. It would be a very simple piece of legislation and save a shed-load of money in admin.</i><br /><br />A Grand Committee of British MPs passing British legislation for England isn't an answer to a devolved national parliament with politicians elected to represent only their national interests. A few years ago Chris Gill, a former Tory MP who has since seen the light and joined UKIP, submitted a costed paper to a House of Lords Committee on the constitution which in today's money would save almost half a billion pounds per year by creating a federal UK.wonkotsanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04896256040598397497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-24851986967563449642010-10-14T19:16:28.161+01:002010-10-14T19:16:28.161+01:00English Parliament, anyone?
Yes please.
B, its t...<i>English Parliament, anyone?</i><br /><br />Yes please.<br /><br /><i>B, its the right thing do do?</i><br /><br />No, it's wrong for any MP elected in Scotland to vote on something for England that is devolved in Scotland.<br /><br /><i>but why shouldn't Scot MPs contribute to the debate, given that we do not have one as yet?</i><br /><br />And how many MPs elected in English constituencies debated tuition fees in Scotland?<br /><br /><i>Not only will the plans for English fees have an impact on Scotland, but this is how our system works.</i><br /><br />The system is wrong. Having no fees in Scotland impacts England - it deprives English universities of students from Scotland because they don't want to pay for education when they can get it free at home.<br /><br /><i>To save costs, I wouldn't want an English parliament, but simply to prohibit votes of MPs from areas where the subject of the vote is a devolved matter in their constituency. It would be a very simple piece of legislation and save a shed-load of money in admin.</i><br /><br />A Grand Committee of British MPs passing British legislation for England isn't an answer to a devolved national parliament with politicians elected to represent only their national interests. A few years ago Chris Gill, a former Tory MP who has since seen the light and joined UKIP, submitted a costed paper to a House of Lords Committee on the constitution which in today's money would save almost half a billion pounds per year by creating a federal UK.<br /><br /><i>Where do I sign up?</i><br /><br />The Campaign for an English Parliament - http://www.thecep.org.uk<br /><br /><i>Trouble is an English parliament is a a break up of the union by another means. It, in effect, would be England declaring UDI.</i><br /><br />Rubbish. Devolution is power loaned, not given away. It acknowledges the supremacy of the British government.<br /><br /><i>The English need a non-xenophobic serious pressure group to put the case. Set one up Iain!</i><br /><br />There's been one since 1998, the Campaign for an English Parliament - http://www.thecep.org.uk<br /><br /><i> didn't notice you or any other Conservatives complaining in the 1980s, Mr.Dale, when English MPs lined up to ram Conservative policy through in Scotland even though English constituencies were unaffected.</i><br /><br />There haven't been any English MPs since 1707 when the English Parliament was replaced with the British Parliament. It was British MPs in the British government. And it wasn't even the same situation - there was devolution in the 80's so every British MP had the same moral right to vote on any law because there was only one parliament.<br /><br /><i>No, not a whole parliament that would be a stupid exercise in bureaucracy/ Requiring a majority of English MPs to vote in favour of issues affecting only England would be a good idea.</i><br /><br />No it wouldn't. For a start it's what 7 out of 10 people in the UK (not just England) want. A Grand Committee of British MPs elected in England is not the same as a devolved government.<br /><br />It's time the British government stopped dicking around making up excuses for denying us our democratic rights. I want my country back.wonkotsanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04896256040598397497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-47984696563862855062010-10-14T19:10:42.706+01:002010-10-14T19:10:42.706+01:00Wouldn't an "English Parliament" hav...Wouldn't an "English Parliament" have a natural Conservative majority? Rid of fifty or so Labour MP's and no need for the coalition. Self government for England. (Well run by Brussels actually, but I won't tell if you don't)AndrewSouthLondonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16938615481406315985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-9248468106587435462010-10-14T18:43:37.197+01:002010-10-14T18:43:37.197+01:00No, not a whole parliament that would be a stupid ...No, not a whole parliament that would be a stupid exercise in bureaucracy/ Requiring a majority of English MPs to vote in favour of issues affecting only England would be a good idea.Edward Bondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09763816075493068303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-55313982476526497082010-10-14T18:27:57.321+01:002010-10-14T18:27:57.321+01:00I didn't notice you or any other Conservatives...I didn't notice you or any other Conservatives complaining in the 1980s, Mr.Dale, when English MPs lined up to ram Conservative policy through in Scotland even though English constituencies were unaffected.<br /><br />In principle I have no objection to an English parliament. However it is a disgusting display of hypocrisy to whine about Scottish MPs voting on English matters when, for almost 300 years, the reverse was true and nary an objection was raised.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14210245445771564283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-22682134413480545292010-10-14T18:27:27.498+01:002010-10-14T18:27:27.498+01:00Ah, the West Lothian Question. Trouble is an Engli...Ah, the West Lothian Question. Trouble is an English parliament is a a break up of the union by another means. It, in effect, would be England declaring UDI. Which would be good, but won't happen with this government. Neither will the stopping of Scottish MP's voting on purely English matters. The English need a non-xenophobic serious pressure group to put the case. Set one up Iain!Jah'sSwordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13068008263445182702noreply@blogger.com