tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post642729381274809721..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: The Dutch Bulb Fields: Advice PleaseIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-76123870184884595052008-03-26T21:10:00.000+00:002008-03-26T21:10:00.000+00:00If and when visiting Verdun you must realise that ...If and when visiting Verdun you must realise that this was why the Somme was fought when and where and for as long as it was.<BR/><BR/>The graves around the Somme are there for a purpose, they kept France in the war.<BR/><BR/>The further point worth considering is what was it which changed in France between the wars and turned the resolve of Verdun into fatalism of Vichy?<BR/><BR/>Maybe Franco-German guilt lies behined the EC.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-4934272501535174192008-03-25T19:48:00.000+00:002008-03-25T19:48:00.000+00:00closer to home - try the American airfield cemetar...closer to home - try the American airfield cemetary at Maddingley near Cambridge. A field of crosses and occasional Stars of David. I think the most moving ones are inscriptions that read "three comrades who fell together". i.e. it was not possible to extract their bodies seperately from the wreckage of their plane crash. <BR/><BR/>And on some of them the date of death is a year or so after 1945 as they were mortally injured before the official end of the war and died long after so still considered as part of WW2 war dead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-69416319801706963242008-03-25T19:28:00.000+00:002008-03-25T19:28:00.000+00:00Verity why dont you go and spread your wisdom on ...Verity why dont you go and spread your wisdom on some other blogs. It seems so unfair that only we have the benfit of your insight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-83478173341512645592008-03-25T19:26:00.000+00:002008-03-25T19:26:00.000+00:00good on you Iain - I make a point of going down to...good on you Iain - I make a point of going down to the Australian war memorial in London and paying my respects 3 or 4 times a year. <BR/><BR/>These Men travelled thousands of miles to defend the Empire and paid a price. They were the sons of farmers and miners who left this country to escape the European malaise but nonetheless came back when called. They may have been foolish in that choice but they deserve respect. I remain in awe of their sacrifice.<BR/><BR/>Iain, please take a moment to remember them for a moment in your prayers, secular or otherwise. We'll never know those boys and men and who knows, I doubt they would have approved of the society we live in but we can only be thankful for the life we lead as a result of their deaths.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63495754149654572102008-03-25T08:56:00.000+00:002008-03-25T08:56:00.000+00:00Someone suggested staying in Maastricht. It is und...Someone suggested staying in Maastricht. It is undoubtedly lovely, perhaps the loveliest city in the Netherlands, but travelling up and down the A2 is not to be recommended - it is often one long traffic jam. Utrecht to Maastricht has taken me four hours before now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63359036331719716472008-03-25T08:51:00.000+00:002008-03-25T08:51:00.000+00:00If you are anywhere near, don't miss the war grave...If you are anywhere near, don't miss the war graves at Arnhem. The care with which they are kept brought tears to my eyes. Well worth the detour.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-20001670565120599522008-03-24T23:01:00.000+00:002008-03-24T23:01:00.000+00:00Iain Keukenhof is the best place for bulbfields, l...Iain Keukenhof is the best place for bulbfields, located in Lisse about 20 minutes south of Amsterdam. It is a really splendid day out with plenty to see. The dutch are skilled at keeping the display going throughout the open season, however I would recommend going mid to late in the display season. There are indoor pavilions to jump to in case of April showers, however I never needed them.<BR/>Hotels - Amsterdam is full of them depending what you want to see and do in the evening. Foodwise the selection is very diverse so all tastes are catered for. Leidseplein has plenty of different types of restaurants. Disadvantage of Amsterdam is parking, but you win some and lose some.<BR/><BR/>As for WW1 battlefield tours, if you are self touring buy a Holts tourguide and follow that. Central area for the battlefields - you cannot go wrong near or in Ypres but you have to book early for hotels. You could get a hotel in Lille and drive to Ypres daily, but its nicer to be on location. You must see the Last Post ceremony at the Menin gate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-18611746895831928102008-03-24T19:22:00.000+00:002008-03-24T19:22:00.000+00:00Andrew at 9.25 am and Anonymous at 3.38 pm both me...Andrew at 9.25 am and Anonymous at 3.38 pm both mention Verdun.<BR/><BR/>Until I went there a few years ago, I don't think that I fully appreciated what people meant by "industrial scale warfare." The scale of the killing is hard to take in. It was the only battle that was exclusively French vs Germans - and resulted in 800,000 casualties.<BR/><BR/>Conversely, if you ever lose your way in the French / Belgian border country, you'll see lots of little villages, most of which have a small WWI cemetery. <BR/><BR/>When I've talked about these cemeteries to work colleagues from France and Belgium, they have all said that, because of these cemeteries and monuments, their countries live with the reminders of two world wars on a daily basis. Spend any time around Ypres and you'll see that their ceremonies aren't for the benefit of the tourists.<BR/><BR/>I think that Andrew is right. Many continental Europeans do see the EC first and foremost as a way of preventing wars. By that measure, the EC has been a success; it's a pity we got all the back-door socialist crap with it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-47412940534849803112008-03-24T15:38:00.000+00:002008-03-24T15:38:00.000+00:00The Ossuary at Verdun is one of the most extraordi...The Ossuary at Verdun is one of the most extraordinary buildings in Europe. If you go round to the back of the monument you can see through small windows the neatly-stacked bones and skulls of unidentified combatants - horrific and moving. The Verdun forts should also be visited. May I also suggest Arnold Zweig's novel, Education before Verdun, written from the German standpoint, as background reading, one of a trilogy by a deeply humane writer who ended his life in exile from the Nazis in Palestine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-22624351498130509142008-03-24T14:36:00.000+00:002008-03-24T14:36:00.000+00:00Den Haag is a good touring location - you can get ...Den Haag is a good touring location - you can get round town on trams. Katwijk and Noordwijck are fine - but exposed and the wind drives off the North Sea. <A HREF="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Scheveningen+The+Hague,+South+Holland,+The+Netherlands&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=0,52.108089,4.273093&ll=52.105873,4.298744&spn=0.055881,0.138702&t=h&z=13&iwloc=addr" REL="nofollow">Scheveningen</A>, just north of the Hague - really part of it, is a good compromise. By the sea lots to eat including the obligatory raw herring. There's good cultural stuff in the Hague. Delft can be reached by train or a rather long tram journey ( the centre is relatively compact ). (Dutch public transport actually works - but you'll need a car for wider afield). You can also get a train to Amsterdam and reach the boats (and oddly trams) that do city tours without much of walk from the central station ( do not take your car into Amsterdam !). The fast ferry from Harwich is a good option.<BR/><BR/>Also there are boat trips from Katwijk which cover a lot of the Dutch basics - polders, dykes, low bridges (duck - really the Dutch don't warn you twice), windmills etc. All combined with a very civilised bar / cafe on the bottom deck (where you can keep warm if needed ! ).<BR/><BR/>See <A HREF="http://www.rederijtriton.nl/" REL="nofollow">http://www.rederijtriton.nl/</A> ( my Dutch is a bit rusty, but I think this is the company I took my family on the 3 hour tour with ). The cruises go from <A HREF="http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=52.205049,4.405121&spn=0.003485,0.008669&t=h&z=17" REL="nofollow">here </A>I think.<BR/><BR/>The Dutch are great - speak better English than we do and are about the only people in Europe who actually (genuinely) like us.Man in a Shedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00990902055642035293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-37237219966472476052008-03-24T14:33:00.000+00:002008-03-24T14:33:00.000+00:00I would also suggest that you go to the Keukenhof,...I would also suggest that you go to the Keukenhof, however, I would suggest that you base yourself in the beautiful Dutch town of Maastricht, you can be in Ypres in about 2 - 21/2 hrs and be in Keukenhof in about 2 hours.<BR/><BR/>For an extra stop I suggest that you also visit Waterloo or perhaps take a trip to the Ardennes where you have both 1st WW and 2nd WW battle-sites to visit.<BR/><BR/>Anyway whatever you choose I am sure your mother and you will have a wonderful time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-43596496391321026802008-03-24T13:37:00.000+00:002008-03-24T13:37:00.000+00:00Everyone is having a go at you Verity, I am not tr...Everyone is having a go at you Verity, I am not trying to join in ... but ...<BR/><BR/>You remark that our soldiers were poorly equipped. Well they were not (and only the tinyest of numbers were under 18) and I suspect you would find that they were rotated out of the trenches more often than our troops in Afghanistan get rest.<BR/>Nor was there (in the UK at least) a 'lost generation'; the 'pals' battalions and losses by some public schools gave that perception in some areas ... but thats another story.<BR/><BR/>If I can continue on my hobby horse ... I am sure it is worthwhile visiting the WW1 battlefields, I would love to do it myself sometime, but quite frankly it is meaningless without some proper understanding of what went on. 'Mud Blood and Poppycock' and 'Forgotten Victory' are two very accessible and well researched books which a visitor ought to read before embarking on such a journey.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-9271408726756329652008-03-24T13:09:00.000+00:002008-03-24T13:09:00.000+00:00Heres a photographic album of what the Somme looks...Heres a photographic album of what the Somme looks like today<BR/><BR/>http://www.oceanvillas-tearooms.com/images/gallery/AroundOceanVillas/2.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-15947086684212565082008-03-24T13:06:00.000+00:002008-03-24T13:06:00.000+00:0012:15 A.M. Been having little drinkie poos have we...12:15 A.M. Been having little drinkie poos have we? If a sober adult had been unable to come up with a sharper - although pointless - post than yours, he would have skipped the whole idea and saved the cyberspace.<BR/><BR/>Iain, if you're ever in Southeast Asia at the appropriate time, the sunrise service for the Commonwealth citizens who died a the hands of the Japanese is very moving. The Singporeans keep the cemetary up beautifully.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12763232514693618842008-03-24T09:25:00.000+00:002008-03-24T09:25:00.000+00:00Wow! "pretentious"; "prat", "twerp", etc, etc. All...Wow! "pretentious"; "prat", "twerp", etc, etc. All that "vitriol" over something as uncontentious as a blog request for holiday advice. No wonder wars start!<BR/><BR/>Iain, I'm sure it's too far away for your father and he'd probably want to visit British war sites anyway, but I do recommend visiting Verdun at some stage in your life. As a convinced Eurosceptic, I think it explains a lot of the mentality behind the Euroenthusiasts' attempt to prevent another such war. There is something very evil, still, in the atmosphere there and Forts Douaumont and Vaux are frightful places. You simply don't get the same feeling in a British Commonwealth War Graves Commission site, moving as they are.<BR/><BR/>The best book to read on Verdun by a country mile is Alistair Horne's Paths of Glory.<BR/><BR/>I hope you have a good trip.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16992479160420755465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-26054690803274230612008-03-24T01:00:00.000+00:002008-03-24T01:00:00.000+00:00IainI agree with "King Lear" Vimy Ridge is an exce...Iain<BR/><BR/>I agree with "King Lear" Vimy Ridge is an excellent choice. I have a relative buried at Aubingy-en-Artois near Arras, it's one of several WW1 Commonwealth War Graves in the area. Arras is great if you like Flemish architecture.<BR/><BR/>Suggest you go to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission Website, here:<BR/><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.cwgc.org/" REL="nofollow">CWGC</A>Jeremy Jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02014279463894807064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-36306837892303589812008-03-24T00:25:00.000+00:002008-03-24T00:25:00.000+00:00Iain - and finally, if you want a good few tomes t...Iain - and finally, if you want a good few tomes to get stuck into, look at Lynne McDonald's books on the great war. 1914, 1915, Somme, They Called it Paschendale, 1918, the Roses of No Mans Land and a few others. If you are going to Ypres, start with They Called it Paschendale.<BR/><BR/>Pick yourself up a copy of Major Holt's Battleield Guide as well! <BR/><BR/>And go to the Cloth Hall, The Menin Gate, and Hill 60 too!Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06514885826616402615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-17758493654233581132008-03-24T00:23:00.000+00:002008-03-24T00:23:00.000+00:00Guys, Verity apologised. Give her a break - we all...Guys, Verity apologised. Give her a break - we all enjoy her posts/rants/wit.<BR/><BR/>Iain, there are a hell of a lot of people on this post who clearly apreciate the history of the great war. Would you be intersted in acting as a focal-point for a tour of the Somme and Ypres regions?<BR/><BR/>I'd happily do the donkey-work, organise ferries and accomodation etc. I could also guide the bit on the Somme as I know it well - perhaps with a more knowlegable soul taking responsibility for Ypres - about which I know shamefully little given its massive importance.<BR/><BR/>So - Dale's Diary on Tour?<BR/><BR/>What do you think?Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06514885826616402615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-60632399697055248472008-03-24T00:15:00.000+00:002008-03-24T00:15:00.000+00:00Verity, you don't apologise do you? You feel bad t...Verity, you don't apologise do you? You feel bad that, not for the first time, you've been shown to be a bile-filled halfwit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-47862927998331202372008-03-24T00:14:00.000+00:002008-03-24T00:14:00.000+00:00Iain, where are you going to sail to - this will d...Iain, where are you going to sail to - this will dictate where you can visit. <BR/><BR/>I have spent this weekend on the Somme with my son (again) and stayed at Mash Valley B&B - www.mashvalley.com. <BR/><BR/>The Somme is amazing - and although the trech systems are not as well presenrced as Yrpres (perhaps with the exception of Newfoundland Memorial Park at Beaumont Hamel), there is still an enourmous amount of history that you can see. <BR/><BR/>The Somme is easy to get too - about 90 mins drive from Ypres. Albert is the main town, and there are good hotels and restaurants there, and local Gites as well. I have a list of them if that helps.<BR/><BR/>I can give you a potted history of the Somme if that helps too, and lend you all my books.<BR/><BR/>This weekend, one of the most touching sites was the German Soldatenfriedhof at Fricourt, which had obviously been visited by a group of British tourists, and they planted 'In Rememberance' poppy crosses. Good to remember that Germans suffered in the battle too!<BR/><BR/>However, if you are in Belguim, you must must MSUT go to Ypres. The three battles of Ypres deserve some good research before you go, but whatever you do, go to Tyne Cott Cemetary, and also the Menin Gate for the evening service.<BR/><BR/>Also, join the Western Front Association.Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06514885826616402615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-14035432580156700012008-03-23T23:57:00.000+00:002008-03-23T23:57:00.000+00:00It's way off your route but the Canadian monument ...It's way off your route but the Canadian monument at Beaumont-Hamel (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?t=h&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=50.075583,2.65064&spn=0.022034,0.048881&z=15) has always left me in awe and trepidation of what 1914-18 must have been like. The site retains some of the opposing trenches as well as the graves of those that were lost.<BR/><BR/>On a lighter note, remember to take some lip salve with you to Holland. It will help you cope with chewed lips from Amsterdam.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-18762261574235540222008-03-23T23:31:00.000+00:002008-03-23T23:31:00.000+00:00The Yorkshire Trench system at Boezinge is a must...The Yorkshire Trench system at Boezinge is a must. See here;<BR/><BR/>http://tinyurl.com/2ovudb<BR/><BR/>You can take this in alongside the other places already mentioned.<BR/><BR/>I endorse the mention of the Dunkrik ferry service from Norfolk line. I lived in Antwerp for a while and came to use this method to and from the UK regularly.<BR/><BR/>Have a good trip!Rush-is-Righthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12860467341217977185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-16092566368603019192008-03-23T22:42:00.000+00:002008-03-23T22:42:00.000+00:00Either Iain edited his post or the top of his post...Either Iain edited his post or the top of his post wasn't available on my computer when I first booted up, because all I read was a very short post that Iain was taking his father to Holland to see the War graves, and I posted some comments. I was puzzled that people seemed to be flocking around talking about tulip bulbs.<BR/><BR/>When I came back, later, there was the bit about his mother and the bulbs.<BR/><BR/>I do apologise to those I wrongly castigated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-46551761991199422982008-03-23T22:13:00.000+00:002008-03-23T22:13:00.000+00:00dick wishart said... "The answer to B. is HOLLAND....dick wishart said... <BR/>"The answer to B. is HOLLAND."<BR/><BR/>Go away.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-76408179540527690242008-03-23T22:07:00.000+00:002008-03-23T22:07:00.000+00:00Anonymous said... "Just get out Alistair Sawday's ...Anonymous said... <BR/>"Just get out Alistair Sawday's guide for lovely accomodation and great food."<BR/><BR/>But it doesn't cover either Holland or Belgium.<BR/><BR/>Prat.<BR/><BR/>You're not Alistair Sawday are you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com