tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post5510334514930330341..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Out of Touch, Soon Out of OfficeIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger86125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31523041090422723582008-08-17T02:34:00.000+01:002008-08-17T02:34:00.000+01:00Tom Harris is a very silly man and it is amazing t...Tom Harris is a very silly man and it is amazing that he ever became an MP.<BR/><BR/>Just goes to show how limited the choices have been for the Scottish people over the last 12 years or so has been.<BR/><BR/>If Carling ever did Labour MPs then Tom Harris would be a boring, ineffective and unamusing Scottish git.Ted Foanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04497077127882545545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-21881124215384825672008-08-16T10:42:00.000+01:002008-08-16T10:42:00.000+01:00Arkangel said... "goons on motor bikes directed to...Arkangel said... <BR/>"goons on motor bikes directed to the scene of a violent outbreak of 'littering' by some faceless nonentity hiding at the other end of a camera."<BR/><BR/>Post your source of this allegation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-29372776707936067962008-08-15T23:00:00.000+01:002008-08-15T23:00:00.000+01:00Auntie Flo' said... "UK 4.2 million camerasGermany...Auntie Flo' said... <BR/>"UK 4.2 million cameras<BR/><BR/>Germany 1.6 million<BR/><BR/>Western Europe 6 million<BR/><BR/>So UK, shamefully and scandalously has over 75% of Europe's surveillance cameras."<BR/><BR/>If the above numbers are correct, the number of CCTV cameras in the UK is equivalent to 70% of the number in the rest of Western Europe.<BR/><BR/>The UK is part of Western Europe. Therefore, the UK has 41% of the surveillance cameras in Western Europe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-75785997536845920972008-08-15T10:11:00.000+01:002008-08-15T10:11:00.000+01:00Auntie Flo said ... "LAB UK has 4.2 million CCTV c...Auntie Flo said ... "LAB UK has 4.2 million CCTV cameras, 90% are illegal (Inf Comissioner)"<BR/><BR/>You are seriously misquoting the Information Commissioner.<BR/><BR/>No-one, apart from you, has claimed that 90% of CCTV cameras are illegal.<BR/><BR/>CameraWatch claimed that 90% were not complying fully with the Code of Practice. <A HREF="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1553090/Majority-of-UK's-CCTV-cameras-'are-illegal'.html" REL="nofollow">Daily Telegraph</A><BR/><BR/>However, the Information Commissioner's Office denied that CCTV rules are being broken on a large scale. <BR/><BR/>Also, the Assistant Information Commissioner for Scotland, said "We are not aware of any evidence that supports the suggestion that 90 per cent of CCTV cameras are not complying with the ICO Code of Practice. We don't believe there is any such evidence."<BR/><BR/>So your claim is nonsense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53419916460334924432008-08-15T09:56:00.000+01:002008-08-15T09:56:00.000+01:00Auntie Flo, your memory of CCTV in the Tory years ...Auntie Flo, your memory of CCTV in the Tory years is faulty. It was the Conservative government in the 1990s that was responsible for the surge in surveillance cameras in this country. Here are a few quotes from members of the Major government which make clear their views on CCTV.<BR/><BR/>John Major on CCTV - Pledging that he has "no sympathy" for civil liberties objectors, he stated that "anything that helps people and hinders the criminal is fine by me"<BR/><BR/>Michael Howard – “CCTV is a real asset to communities: a great deterrent to crime and a huge reassurance to the public”<BR/><BR/>Sir Paul Beresford, the Environment Minister – “CCTV can bring enormous benefits to towns and cities".<BR/><BR/>A Home Office Minister called CCTV the "friendly eye in the sky …there is nothing sinister about it and the innocent have nothing to fear. It will put criminals on the run and evidence will be clear to see.”Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-23456084300818574902008-08-15T09:11:00.000+01:002008-08-15T09:11:00.000+01:00Auntie Flo' said... "History of surveillance camer...Auntie Flo' said... <BR/>"History of surveillance cameras UK<BR/>....<BR/>LAB Children finger printed<BR/>LAB innocent finger printed<BR/>LAB National DNA database ..."<BR/><BR/>Surveillance cameras?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-26069882822609703892008-08-15T09:08:00.000+01:002008-08-15T09:08:00.000+01:00Thanks for the link to the article that appeared i...Thanks for the link to the article that appeared in an Australian newspaper in 2005.<BR/><BR/>You missed out the following important bits which put CCTV in perspective:<BR/><BR/>“How London became the world’s CCTV capital<BR/>By James Button <BR/><BR/>July 25, 2005<BR/><BR/>Stealthily, in a mere 10 to 15 years [Flo, that means 1990-2005, ie including 7 Tory years] closed circuit television cameras have spread across the nation and a people once jealous of their privacy have scarcely raised a protest. <BR/><BR/>Britons want their own CCTV. …<BR/><BR/>… The rising crime rate drove the Conservative governments of Margaret Thatcher and John Major to spend heavily on CCTV …<BR/><BR/>… Yet its growth is not driven so much by the central government but by private companies and local governments keen to keep their town centres free of “yobs” and safe for shoppers.<BR/><BR/>The “big brother” analogy is often used but isn’t quite right. There is no central surveillance bureaucracy. Rather, much of the spying is done by private security outfits on behalf of companies, councils and transport operators. They will contact police when they see a crime or — as with the London bombers — the camera footage will be taken and viewed by investigators.<BR/><BR/>The evidence that CCTV reduces general crime levels is far from conclusive, but no matter. After the events of the past few weeks, the all-seeing eye is almost certainly here to stay.”Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-88915160829714630522008-08-15T00:14:00.000+01:002008-08-15T00:14:00.000+01:00http://www.bobpiper.co.uk/2008/08/fret_and_fiddle....http://www.bobpiper.co.uk/2008/08/fret_and_fiddle.php#comments<BR/><BR/>Conservative-run Council in Walsall had carried out nearly 1,000 instances of covert surveillance on its citizens.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-50412274485050229732008-08-14T23:53:00.000+01:002008-08-14T23:53:00.000+01:00So to sum up, what’s being advocated is that in to...So to sum up, what’s being advocated is that in toryworld we’ll be demanding the removal of the alleged 4:2 million CCTV cameras; and by accepting the most stretched and preposterous ‘what ifs’, any type of surveillance that could possibly be deemed ‘spying’.<BR/><BR/>A child taken to A/E will not automatically generate a health professional politely enquiring at an appropriate later time if said child has developed any further concerning symptoms. <BR/>Parents will not keep any record of their child’s early progress that may prove to be of beneficial use in future health care.<BR/><BR/>In the name of freedom and taking back our country it will be acceptable to be knee deep in garbage with no penalty or preventative action being taken.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78406148685214434912008-08-14T23:06:00.000+01:002008-08-14T23:06:00.000+01:00History of surveillance cameras UK1913: LIB surrep...History of surveillance cameras UK<BR/><BR/>1913: LIB surreptious film of imprisoned suffragettes <BR/><BR/>1949: LAB Orwell's 1984, which is set in London.<BR/><BR/>1960: CONS Met Guy Fawkes 2 cameras Trafalgar Square<BR/><BR/>1961: CONS video surveillance system London train station.<BR/><BR/>1964: LAB Liverpool police 4 covert CCTV cameras.<BR/><BR/>1965: LAB Railway cameras near Dagenham - vandalism<BR/><BR/>1967: LAB Photoscan markets video surveillance systems to shops<BR/><BR/>1968: LAB Met use to monitor anto-Vietnam War demonstrators.<BR/><BR/>1969: LAB Met permanent cameras in Grosvenor Square, Whitehall and Parliament Square. <BR/><BR/>1969: LAB Total number of cameras nationally: 67.<BR/><BR/>1974: LAB video surveillance of major arterial roads in and through London.<BR/><BR/>1975: LAB video surveillance system in four London Underground <BR/><BR/>1975: LAB use of video surveillance systems at soccer matches begins.<BR/><BR/>1984: CONS surveillance cameras at major protest rallying points London. .<BR/><BR/>1985: CONS street-based video surveillance system in Bournemouth<BR/><BR/>1987: CONS video surveillance at LA parking garages<BR/><BR/>1988: CONS LA video surveillance of "council estates" <BR/><BR/>1989: CONS Liberty publishes Who's watching you? <BR/><BR/>1992: CONS street-based video surveillance in Newcastle (<BR/><BR/>1992: CONS speed cameras and red-light enforcement cameras.<BR/><BR/>1993: CONS Bishopsgate bombs "Ring of Steel" Ldn incs cameras.<BR/><BR/>1994: CONS CCTV: Looking Out for You. Prime Minister John Major states: <BR/><BR/>1994 and 1997, the Home Office spends a total of 38 million pounds of CCTV schemes.<BR/><BR/>1994: CONS covert video surveillance systems at ATMs<BR/><BR/>1996: CONS all England's major citt centres except Leeds video surveillance <BR/><BR/>1996: CONS CCTV cameras total 1 million<BR/><BR/>1997: LAB public demonstration against surveillance cameras in Brighton<BR/><BR/>1997: LAB London police surveillance camera system tracks license plates.<BR/><BR/>1998: LAB use of face recognition software in the London Borough of Newham begins.<BR/><BR/>LAB Children finger printed<BR/><BR/>LAB innocent finger printed<BR/><BR/>LAB National DNA database<BR/><BR/>LAB Spy in the sky camera drones<BR/><BR/>LAB Information Commisioner warns of surveillance state<BR/><BR/>LAB UK has 4.2 million CCTV cameras, 90% are illegal (Inf Comissioner)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-38402419852923730972008-08-14T22:35:00.000+01:002008-08-14T22:35:00.000+01:00Anon claimed:"Even under the Major government we h...Anon claimed:<BR/><BR/>"Even under the Major government we had the largest number of CCTV cameras in the world."<BR/><BR/><BR/>Wrong, anon.<BR/><BR/>In 2001, the country had a million CCTV cameras; last year it had over four times as many.<BR/><BR/>Barry Hughill, of the human rights organisation Liberty, has described Britain as “the CCTV capital of the world”.<BR/><BR/>"Stealthily, in a mere 10 to 15 years, closed circuit television cameras have spread across the nation."<BR/><BR/>http://www.theage.com.au/news/war-on-terror/how-london-became-the-world146s-cctv-capital/2005/07/25/1122143780626.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-2405864442010828172008-08-14T22:12:00.000+01:002008-08-14T22:12:00.000+01:00Anonymous said... Auntie Flo' said... "UK 4.2 mill...Anonymous said... <BR/><BR/>Auntie Flo' said... <BR/>"UK 4.2 million cameras<BR/>Germany 1.6 million<BR/>Western Europe 6 million.<BR/>So UK, shamefully and scandalously has over 75% of Europe's surveillance cameras."<BR/><BR/>Something wrong with your arithmetic there.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>You're right, thanks, anon, I should have said UK has 70% of the all of the surveillance cameras in Europe.<BR/><BR/>Still shameful and scandalous, isn't it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-48887910204982639952008-08-14T17:42:00.000+01:002008-08-14T17:42:00.000+01:00Auntie Flo' said... "UK 4.2 million camerasGermany...Auntie Flo' said... <BR/>"UK 4.2 million cameras<BR/>Germany 1.6 million<BR/>Western Europe 6 million.<BR/>So UK, shamefully and scandalously has over 75% of Europe's surveillance cameras."<BR/><BR/>Something wrong with your arithmetic there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-48639810586050410552008-08-14T12:03:00.000+01:002008-08-14T12:03:00.000+01:00- Anonymous said... "Auntie Flo, the rest of the w...- Anonymous said... "Auntie Flo, the rest of the world see the benefits of CCTV and are rapidly following our example."<BR/><BR/>- Auntie Flo' said... <BR/>"UK 4.2 million cameras<BR/>Germany 1.6 million<BR/>Western Europe 6 million<BR/><BR/>So UK, shamefully and scandalously has over 75% of Europe's surveillance cameras.<BR/>Go back to nulab spin school, anon, all this bunking off is shrinking your pea sized brain."<BR/><BR/>Auntie Flo, I wouldn't care to comment on the size of your brain but clearly you don't understand the concept of trends.<BR/><BR/>Currently, other countries have fewer CCTV cameras than we have but they are installing them at a greater rate than we are, so if present trends continue then many of them will soon have more than us.<BR/><BR/>The large number of cameras in this country is due mainly to the enthusiasm with which the last Conservative government embraced the concept of CCTV surveillance. Even under the Major government we had the largest number of CCTV cameras in the world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-73117284281897261992008-08-14T11:02:00.000+01:002008-08-14T11:02:00.000+01:00hirani said... "people think there are too many.. ...<B>hirani said...</B> <BR/><BR/>"people think there are too many.. but still would like CCTV on their own streets to monitor crime."<BR/><BR/>They would prefer not to have the crime. And not to be spied on by a political system that has declared war on it's own citizens.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-8103704818845938392008-08-14T11:01:00.000+01:002008-08-14T11:01:00.000+01:00Anonymous said..."I live in Glasgow and I know of ...<B>Anonymous said...</B><BR/><BR/>"I live in Glasgow and I know of nobody who feels threatened by CCTV but I know plenty of people who feel threatened by street crime. A lady (English) was murdered in a classy street a couple of months ago in this city, in Tom's constituency I believe. A Slovakian man is awaiting trial. You probably didn't hear about it in England. Why should you? The Scotch are murdering each other all the time. CCTV might have deterred the murderer, whoever that person was. Might have."<BR/><BR/>Alternatively, get rid of nulab, CCTV, and Serbian and other crims who should never have been allowed here in the first place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-81960717421975187322008-08-14T10:54:00.000+01:002008-08-14T10:54:00.000+01:00Policing green paper, From the Neighbourhood to th...Policing green paper, From the Neighbourhood to the National, Last month promised to cut red tape and give the police more time to get on with their jobs catching criminals. <BR/><BR/>Oh, yeah? Pull the other one, it's got 4.2 million surveillance cameras strapped to it<BR/><BR/>The BBC interviewed serving police officers about the effect of Home Office targets.<BR/><BR/>"They describe how ordinary law abiding citizens are being criminalised, and how the culture of targets and statistics is destroying police morale, meaning criminals are getting away..."<BR/><BR/>"We are hitting Mr and Mrs Joe Average on the road and hitting them hard, so we can get a little tick in the box to say that we've issued a fixed penalty, when the people who we should be targeting are the people we know are causing the offences, who are causing the burglaries, criminal damages and theft"<BR/><BR/>http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7559000/7559395.stm<BR/><BR/>The easy targets culture of the police, those 4.2 million cameras in UK and all the other sinister paraphernalia of nulab's surveillance state are all key parts of nulab's culture of white washing govt ineptness while controlling us all by criminalisation of innocent, hard working people.<BR/><BR/>Tough luck, nulab the voters you're criminalising have had enough of itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-16980780690397961802008-08-14T09:18:00.000+01:002008-08-14T09:18:00.000+01:00"Sorry, NLA, I don't get it. What is so right-wing..."Sorry, NLA, I don't get it. What is so right-wing about objecting to democracy itself being taken over by unreachable, unaccountable forces like Common Purpose, eurocrats, shadowy think tanks and ambitious government appointees who know a lot about political theory but nothing about real life?"<BR/><BR/>You mentioned the "New World Order". It's one of those terms like ZOG that the far-right always go on about. So when libertarians (of which I am one) start to use it, we begin to look like lunatics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-16206055301629912242008-08-14T01:42:00.000+01:002008-08-14T01:42:00.000+01:00Anon (I think!) said:"talking cameras? And the pro...Anon (I think!) said:<BR/><BR/>"talking cameras? And the problem with them is…?if you don’t drop fag ends, chewing gum and other rubbish?"<BR/><BR/>What if you're deaf(profoundly), lost and panicking, and consequently viewed as loitering or up to no good?<BR/><BR/>Or what if you suffer from any one of a number of conditions which mean that, through no fault of your own, you aren't aware that dropping litter is an offence?<BR/><BR/>Talking camera operators have a go at people for a range of behaviour, including loitering. <BR/><BR/>Isn't the aim a verbal ear bashing to humiliate the person the operator views as an offender?<BR/><BR/>And some cameras use a child's voice to humiliate the offender.<BR/><BR/>"Oh, look people, that woman/man over there in red has dropped a tissue, must be too stupid to pick up their litter!"<BR/><BR/>A crowd of by standers laugh and the victim of this hasn't a bl**dy clue what they're <BR/>laughing at.<BR/><BR/>Big joke, Anon.<BR/><BR/>What if a deaf or disabled person gets understandably angry at being laughed at? Up comes a cop car and half a dozen police officers.<BR/><BR/>Stun gun? That'll do nicely?<BR/><BR/>I wrote to my local council objecting to talking cameras for the above reasons - and because I'm severely deaf and depend on lip reading.<BR/><BR/>The response? Camera operators are trained to identify people with disabilities.<BR/><BR/>Rubbish. They've no way of identifying invisible disabilities like deafness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-46561799526311204002008-08-14T01:05:00.000+01:002008-08-14T01:05:00.000+01:00Anonymous said... "Auntie Flo, the rest of the wor...Anonymous said... <BR/><BR/>"Auntie Flo, the rest of the world see the benefits of CCTV and are rapidly following our example."<BR/><BR/>UK 4.2 million cameras<BR/><BR/>Germany 1.6 million<BR/><BR/>Western Europe 6 million<BR/><BR/>So UK, shamefully and scandalously has over 75% of Europe's surveillance cameras.<BR/><BR/>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article1655200.ece<BR/><BR/>Go back to nulab spin school, anon, all this bunking off is shrinking your pea sized brain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-40138618314602863802008-08-14T00:45:00.000+01:002008-08-14T00:45:00.000+01:00London has 10,000 crime-fighting CCTV cameras whic...London has 10,000 crime-fighting CCTV cameras which cost £200 million, figures show today. <BR/><BR/>But an analysis of the publicly funded spy network, which is owned and controlled by local authorities and Transport for London, has cast doubt on its ability to help solve crime. <BR/><BR/>A comparison of the number of cameras in each London borough with the proportion of crimes solved there found that police are no more likely to catch offenders in areas with hundreds of cameras than in those with hardly any. <BR/><BR/>In fact, four out of five of the boroughs with the most cameras have a record of solving crime that is below average. <BR/><BR/>The figures were obtained by the Liberal Democrats on the London Assembly using the Freedom of Information Act.<BR/><BR/>http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23412867-details/Tens+of+thousands+of+CCTV+cameras,+yet+80%25+of+crime+unsolved/article.doAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90054031699585975702008-08-13T21:19:00.000+01:002008-08-13T21:19:00.000+01:00Some Labour apologists ought to re-read Nineteen E...Some Labour apologists ought to re-read Nineteen Eighty Four, though it might be wise to remind them that it's supposed to be a warning, not a manifesto.<BR/>Can anyone give me a good reason why the Food Standards Agency, HSE, local councils and health authorities and the Post Office should be able to track my personal email and phone calls?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78780326289875503062008-08-13T19:59:00.000+01:002008-08-13T19:59:00.000+01:00WW. Well here’s the rub WW. I haven’t read this bl...WW. <BR/>Well here’s the rub WW. I haven’t read this blog or your illustrious postings ‘for years’.<BR/> <BR/>I don’t have to pay attention and am not interested in who you are.<BR/><BR/>I won’t be beating any path to your door, and like I care who has your ‘personal email? <BR/>Get over yourself.<BR/><BR/>Yes. I like anonymous, it’s preferable to pompous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-17326939379349259732008-08-13T18:33:00.000+01:002008-08-13T18:33:00.000+01:00Hes play the "offensive" cardHes play the "offensive" cardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-11695384141842888522008-08-13T18:30:00.000+01:002008-08-13T18:30:00.000+01:00Martin says, "I think the time has come to limit h...Martin says, "I think the time has come to limit how long any MP can remain at Westminster."<BR/><BR/>We do. The people who decide when the limit kicks in are called the electorate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com