tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post5319217479866106547..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: When Thinking the Unthinkable Goes WrongIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-45229093707304892962008-08-14T10:58:00.000+01:002008-08-14T10:58:00.000+01:00Where would all the water come from? London and t...Where would all the water come from? London and the South East barely have enough drinking water as it is. Add to that the millions of immigrants nulab are to dump on it to supply more nulab voters.<BR/><BR/>Now the tories want even more crowded in. Would that be so that the proles can die of dehydration while tories use the rest of the country for fox hunting?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-7182139651272466332008-08-13T21:52:00.000+01:002008-08-13T21:52:00.000+01:00Hi Iain -I think the Policy Exchange report got a ...Hi Iain -<BR/><BR/>I think the Policy Exchange report got a couple of things right. First, economic geography and history do matter. And second, as you also say, no regional policy (Tory or Labour) has come anywhere close to narrowing the growth gap between the North and the South. <BR/><BR/>But you're right that calling on politicians to shut down cities - voters and all - is a bridge too far. <BR/><BR/>I think we'd be better off focusing regeneration and transport funding on Manchester and Leeds. With good transport links, and a trained workforce, these already-successful cities could become bigger regional hubs - and eventually help the Barnsleys and Burnleys to develop new economic roles. <BR/><BR/>A strong manifesto (for either party) would be one that says we need to focus regeneration money on a few places in the North - so that they can generate opportunities for other nearby areas.<BR/><BR/>www.centreforcities.orgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-7909663586163731212008-08-13T20:45:00.000+01:002008-08-13T20:45:00.000+01:00Such a statist, leftist "solution" from a ostensib...Such a statist, leftist "solution" from a ostensible centre-right think tank is very surpirising!<BR/><BR/>I thought we were on our way to dispensing with central planning as the communist-inspired nonsense it is. <BR/><BR/>A centrally planned economy didn't work, a centrally planned health service does work, so should the Government should start relocating large sections of the population on a series of centrally planned targets - NO!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-4681154682879146822008-08-13T18:44:00.000+01:002008-08-13T18:44:00.000+01:00That they want all development to be around London...That they want all development to be around London, Oxford and Cambridge says it all. They have no concept of anywhere except those three.<BR/><BR/>And remember, these are the people who would actually be running the country while "Prime Minister" Cameron and "Chancellor" Osborne spent every day recovering from the night before.David Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06839882674758833524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-58520082011522575062008-08-13T17:49:00.000+01:002008-08-13T17:49:00.000+01:00Let's face it, if sea-levels rise as predicted...Let's face it, if sea-levels rise as predicted (before you all get going on this one, I did say IF sea-levels rise...) the problem of England's redundant sea-ports is going to take care of itself & the SE of England isn't going to look anything like as attractive...<BR/><BR/>As to whether London & the SE is a more attractive place to live, well I shall be putting it to the test. Myself & mrs molesworth are departing our North Pennines hideaway tomorrow, off to the 'Big Smoke' for a long weekend - Museums, London Eye, blagging the Tube, arguing with surly bar-staff etc etc. Haven't been there for years now, but I'm not expecting to be charmed into remaining. After 5 days of 'hectic metropolitan living' I fully expect to feel an enormous sense of relief at being back in the sparsely populated, non-industrialised &, thankfully, unwatched, unsupervised and minimally policed (ho ho) hills. Unless somebody offers me a very highly paid job, of course...@molesworth_1https://www.blogger.com/profile/12278870362360637173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-61319182059129160302008-08-13T17:42:00.000+01:002008-08-13T17:42:00.000+01:00Anyone up for starting the Middlesex Nationalist P...Anyone up for starting the Middlesex Nationalist Party and declaring independence from the smelly north then? Get real - they exist and if we do not try to deal with them, the big old cities of the north will become powderkegs. They will not just disappear overnight.Blackacrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15808024417861534968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-28932745104199086102008-08-13T17:16:00.000+01:002008-08-13T17:16:00.000+01:00While the report is the usual mildly barmy think t...While the report is the usual mildly barmy think tank fayre the real story is the shoddy reporting of it in all media. If you read the thing it isn't exactly saying get everyone out of Liverpool, merely that the previous reasons for Liverpool's success have gone and finding new ones that are as good looks unlikely.<BR/>But in the media we get the mayor of Leeds being wheeled out comlaining about the denigration. In reality they say little that is negative about Leeds, apart from to rightly point out that it doesn't have the economic clout to drag neighbouring towns up with it the way London does to places in Kent, Berkshire etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1532428851991571492008-08-13T16:48:00.000+01:002008-08-13T16:48:00.000+01:00I live in Sheffield, and am originally from London...I live in Sheffield, and am originally from London. I wouldn't move back for all the tea in China. <BR/><BR/>The suggestion that Sheffield is a failing city with a falling population is ridiculous. House prices have increased over the last few decades in line with national percentages, and the city has a very high percentage of graduates from its two universities staying on to live and work in the city following graduation. We have the largest sixth form in the country, our inhabitants are the fittest and our city the greenest with the most parks and trees.<BR/><BR/>I don't think the report writers visited Sheffield before damning it so thoroughly. Maybe they should haveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31764515289330959332008-08-13T16:09:00.000+01:002008-08-13T16:09:00.000+01:00London people routinely believe that things like e...London people routinely believe that things like electricity only exist in London, so it comes as no surprise that Policy Exchange (Michael Gove's toy think tank, most notable for being exposed on Newsnight as a forgers' den) thinks that there are no airports, there are no motorways, there are no banks, and there is no Internet outside the South East.<BR/><BR/>Taken together with the apparently serious suggestion that yet more people should move to the South East, this report tells us all we need to know about the seriousness or otherwise of the Cameroon project, the participants in which, as much as anything else, seem blissfully unaware that their party already holds most of the seats in the South East (although for how much longer, if the plan is to strain the infrastructure there even further?), and will only return to office by winning seats elsewhere. For example, in the North of England.David Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06839882674758833524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-36212121632996998302008-08-13T14:51:00.000+01:002008-08-13T14:51:00.000+01:00Please don't go to the wall to defend the green be...Please don't go to the wall to defend the green belt - the green belt in Cambridge has already been shredded, in part because the University itself made free with porky pies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-52735526133266746562008-08-13T14:07:00.000+01:002008-08-13T14:07:00.000+01:00A couple of points, sorry about the length!I'm one...A couple of points, sorry about the length!<BR/><BR/>I'm one of those fiercely proud Scousers, I work down here because my family relocated in the 80s and my work is here but I would love to go back if it were feasible.<BR/><BR/>My question is: why isn't it? Why in the modern world do we still need to live within 10 or so miles from an office which is in one of 10 streets in the City of London? I could do my job from my own front room in Liverpool, be contacted by clients on the phone, send emails, speak to colleagues, all without the need for "clocking in" every day.<BR/><BR/>Why don't employers seem to take this option seriously? Is it a trust issue, is it tradition? I don't understand.<BR/><BR/>Also, as some other people have pointed out, surely the South-East needs LESS people in it, not more.<BR/><BR/>Finally, the same argument could have been used for most of the South-East and -West in the 19th C:<BR/>"These rural areas are useless now we have all these dark satanic mills in Lancashire. Why don't we pack up all the populations of these outmoded villages and ship them to Bradford, where they can gain honest employment from King Cotton."<BR/><BR/>It would have been ridiculous then and it's ridiculous now, cities will always have an ebb and flow effect as industries rise and fall. Who's to say the City of London won't be a ghost town in 50 years because all the finance has moved to Frankfurt?!J.C.G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05311897482441174517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-59054296220028435092008-08-13T14:00:00.000+01:002008-08-13T14:00:00.000+01:00However, precisely because of the population densi...However, precisely because of the population density the south east has limited room for growth. Moving the population is difficult(& moving it from open spaces to cramped ones has disadvantages). Moving the infrastructure may be easier. Certainly the idea that the financial servies industry is immobile is nonsense. They even have broadband oop north. If air traffic is now more important economically than seaports then exactly which part of Britian is it most difficult to build a new airport in?<BR/><BR/>Rather than this 5 year plan attitude we should just improve all our infrastructure, cut givernment or cut the amount of it in London & let the market work it out.neil craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09157898238945726349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-32665488719318069172008-08-13T13:37:00.000+01:002008-08-13T13:37:00.000+01:00Great idea Policy Exchange, encourage all the Labo...Great idea Policy Exchange, encourage all the Labour voters to come to the South East! <BR/><BR/>Personally I rather like living in a Tory stronghold.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31298812103943568232008-08-13T13:28:00.000+01:002008-08-13T13:28:00.000+01:00What of course should happen is that employees wil...What of course should happen is that employees will go where the Labour is, especially the honest, trained, cheap, hardworking type.<BR/><BR/>Problem is thats in China, not so much in Swansea or Cardiff.<BR/><BR/>Service industries have to be where the people with spare spending cash are, which is in the South East. A problem not at all helped by increased transport costs.<BR/><BR/>Britain has long since planned to become a tourist and financial center, by our ruling elites. So primarily a tourist and financial center is what Britain will become.<BR/><BR/>As far as I can see, apart from famously producing things like, dishonest politicians, the most brilliantly effective state propaganda system, an every growing underclass, and Nuclear submarines, Britain is not much more already.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-69629520371372725902008-08-13T13:19:00.000+01:002008-08-13T13:19:00.000+01:00The authors might be economists, but they certainl...The authors might be economists, but they certainly aren't geographers. The report says "Coastal cities, whether large like Liverpool and Hull, or small like Scunthorpe or Blackpool are most vulnerable".<BR/><BR/>For Leunig and Swaffield's information Scunthorpe is 30 miles in land! If they ever decide to visit Scunthorpe I wish them all the best in finding the beach.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-49092203873405729392008-08-13T13:15:00.000+01:002008-08-13T13:15:00.000+01:00This is partly common sense . Cardiff is does wel...This is partly common sense . Cardiff is does well is because the Welsh are deluged with English Taxpayers money on a scale the Scots can only dream of . Duh..well thats clever<BR/>The North floats on subsidies and the 15 billion from the RDA`s alone is hardly likely to survive the downturn . Meanwhile infra structure projects in the South have been absurdly neglected and Cornwall reduced to beggary . Look , for example at Newhaven , near me crying out for investment and with a real prospect of long term prosperity .<BR/>When business has no natural reason to locate you only ever create fragile short term fixes that disguise unemployment (eg silicon Glen) . We cannot afford it and lets not forget that the standard of living enjoyed by those in the North is greatly superior to those in the South who pay for it <BR/>The argument for retaining regional spread is that skills will atrophy and infrastructure has to be maintained, this is much the same argument for keeping old coal mines open at a loss and not without merit . It is only realistic though to point out there is a limit as there was for coal. Which this whole problem goes back to really<BR/>The answer is of course not to rubber stamp barbaric housing development in the lush fields of the South, quite the reverse ( as you say). <BR/>As prices go up here the temptation to locate in the North will increase and the market will correct itself. This process has been stymied by jobs for the Labour heartlands none more so than the North east where more tax vouchers are earnt than real money .<BR/>In Scotland the only successful business is the part the government did not try to rig ie Oil services and the booming financial centre. The sooner the state stops overly rigging the regional market the better for the long term good of the whole country . Labour have succeded in spitting us in two by their disguised redistribution and crony-ism and in poitning this out this report appears to make a good contribution.<BR/><BR/>I must say your own views are slightly opaque to me , you seem to partrly agree and partly demur , its probably me ....Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-79286518710555773712008-08-13T13:11:00.000+01:002008-08-13T13:11:00.000+01:00The firs Half hour of the Jeremy Tick Tick wine wi...The firs Half hour of the Jeremy Tick Tick wine wine show was worth listening to (available listen again) if there was ever an underhand show with stooges all mentioning Regions and how local government can help.<BR/>One of the Authors was a German Doctor on the show,he kept mentioning regions and how his region was transformed with regional power.<BR/>Hun! we don,t want the fourth Reich,<BR/>I see operation Barborosa 11 ( The EUSSR Project) was halted by the Rusians at their border with Georgia this week.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-56752319943551994562008-08-13T13:10:00.000+01:002008-08-13T13:10:00.000+01:00On listening to TalkSport this morning (Radio 5 is...On listening to TalkSport this morning (Radio 5 is all Olympics) they were speaking to somebody who wrote this (didn't catch name,sorry) it turns out he's moving to Australia to go and work for a think tank out there. Talk about kick and run...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-73433098305814137272008-08-13T12:50:00.000+01:002008-08-13T12:50:00.000+01:00Perhaps we should ask why all NuLab growth area ar...Perhaps we should ask why all NuLab growth area are in the South/ Midlands and why John Prescott was knocking down houses in the north (Pathfinder schemes) before we label this a Conservative led ideaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-35138875831388970712008-08-13T12:49:00.000+01:002008-08-13T12:49:00.000+01:00Very similar proposals were in the air seventy yea...Very similar proposals were in the air seventy years ago during the Depression,especially in respect to the North East and South Wales ,where the coal trade and heavy industry had collapsed.<BR/><BR/>In the end,natural migration and pre-war re-armourment stabilsed matters but there was serious consideration to moving whole populations compulsorily.For example, a new town was to be built on Severnside to house the population of Merthyr.<BR/><BR/>These ideas are for cattle not people.People will migrate of their own accord and for their own self interest.<BR/><BR/>But it is odd that the same questions turn up every few decades and the think tanks reach the same conclusions and believe that no-one had thought of them before.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-65021828783497404182008-08-13T12:35:00.000+01:002008-08-13T12:35:00.000+01:00Apostrophe Police says Manchester, Leeds, Liverpoo...Apostrophe Police says Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool and Newcastle are fantastic cities that are simply excellent. Do not forget that winning THEIR hearts wins us the election. Conservatives in the North will change the UK for the better. THEY are the future. Not London.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-51627461323578861362008-08-13T12:32:00.000+01:002008-08-13T12:32:00.000+01:00And you thought the traffic jam you were in the ot...And you thought the traffic jam you were in the other night was bad?<BR/><BR/>Start re-locating large chunks of the population to the South East of England and it will become a daily occurrence.<BR/><BR/>The infrastructure is already lagging behind the growth in population in the South East.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-33284197080434215242008-08-13T12:19:00.001+01:002008-08-13T12:19:00.001+01:00This gets me so angry - it's such a mistaken and f...This gets me so angry - it's such a mistaken and flawed argument - but it's also morally vacant. (Are these the same people who call for an English Parliament?)<BR/><BR/>This week, IPD, Savills, etc. have produced a report that says regeneration areas outperform the market. Which is a no brainer because if you start from a low base, etc. But the key point is that public sector regeneration has enabled private investors to invest and recoup - no state regeneration, no private profit. It is BECAUSE there has been investment from the government that there is a market to invest in. Taxpayer's Alliance have made the same mistake - abolishing Regional Development Agencies won't save you £4bn or whatever - that money doesn't go missing - it goes into companies, and new town centres and business parks and bridges and trains. And why shouldn't we live in these places? after all, the alternative is apparently a new housing estate in the outskirts of the M25Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53030483680632632572008-08-13T12:19:00.000+01:002008-08-13T12:19:00.000+01:00Nualb never do anything that's not to their politi...Nualb never do anything that's not to their political advantage.<BR/><BR/>There was a big row in, Labour marginal, Harlow a few months back over plans to build a mosque, with dome, in an area with no parking. <BR/><BR/>Why build a mosque here when so few Muslims live in Harlow, went one argument. Because the government plan to move a lot of Labour voting muslims into the area to prop up the Labour MP's withered majority, said one bright spark.<BR/><BR/>Are these plans of the same ilk, say, by forcing developers in Labour marginals to provide rented accomodation for the poorest students from Labour heartland areas?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-64064186346918632602008-08-13T12:16:00.000+01:002008-08-13T12:16:00.000+01:00lets be honest some of these northern towns are ju...lets be honest some of these northern towns are just ghastly - we should include Blackpool in the list of towns that need to be closed down. The longer we leave it, the more the taxpayer has to bail out these unproductive towns. The report authors' timing might not be helpful to the party, but any right thinking tory will agree that they have a point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com