tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post443520338221963014..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: David Cameron Will Need to Beat the 'Forces of Conservatism'Iain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-88834882670234597322009-05-27T18:12:59.044+01:002009-05-27T18:12:59.044+01:00@Roger Thornhill
You seem to forget the Tory camp...@Roger Thornhill<br /><br />You seem to forget the Tory campaigns FOR EUROPE in 1983 and 1987, in which fear of leaving Europe was a major Tory theme.<br /><br />Perhaps you are too young to remember.<br /><br />But in most elections since 1979 there have been clear pro-Europe and anti-Europe parties.<br /><br />People rejected Labour when it was anti-Europe and rejected the Tories when they were anti-Europe.Paul Halsallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602075031268155220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-61144257841370303222009-05-27T18:06:49.670+01:002009-05-27T18:06:49.670+01:00At May 26, 2009 8:36 PM , Paul Halsall said...
V...At May 26, 2009 8:36 PM , Paul Halsall said...<br />Victor, <br /><br />We already voted FOR the EU in 1973.<br /><br /><br />No we did NOT. The British voted for an economic zone, the EEC, with limited or no transfers of sovereignty and robust veto rights.<br /><br />Will YOU go the way of David Boothroyd?<br /><br />Please.Roger Thornhillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03591327286533118901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-26096411479834368282009-05-27T14:56:50.924+01:002009-05-27T14:56:50.924+01:00What a surprise - electoral reform, and monarchy, ...What a surprise - electoral reform, and monarchy, firmly off limits. More tinkering around the edges. Plus ça change .....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-54090046775724248912009-05-27T14:23:30.330+01:002009-05-27T14:23:30.330+01:00Parliamentary reform begins at the source. However...Parliamentary reform begins at the source. However late we may be in coming to the obvious conclusion, now is undoubtedly the time to finally abolish the British monarchy whose indefensible position has ever been one of unearned and unmerited access to priviledge, wealth, influence and honours at the expense of, and built upon the backs of, those British citizens it would claim to represent and protect. The Windsors have remained conspiculously SILENT during this latest round of expenses scandal because they know too well how their own fingers are openly and unapologetically deeper into the public purse than any MP in Parliament. In fact, the Windsors represent nothing more or less than the pinnacle of established abuse of public trust and resources. How does their love of Country compare to their love of the insular, unaccountable and unjustifiable lifestyle? If they would put Britain first, they would be first forward to open a vigorous and meaningful debate leading to an ELECTED HEAD OF STATE whose voice of genuine leadership would bear the stamp of an authentic British democracy. We get what we settle for - we need a British Republic.Meg Greenhttp://www.someoddpages.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-24879291660764913692009-05-27T12:32:45.800+01:002009-05-27T12:32:45.800+01:00Cameron includes 'from the judges to the people'. ...Cameron includes 'from the judges to the people'. Don't we have juries any more then? I think he's getting a bit carried away in parts. (It sounds like his Christmas list - 'oh yes, Santa,and can we get rid of the EC too?'!) I rather think we need judges to conduct judicial reviews to preserve the separation of powers. We need a written constitution, of course, to establish what those powers are. A written constitution would ensure that the powers and duties of the state are clearly defined and open to democratic process and judicial review. It would get rid of the 'nod and wink' mentality of Parliament. The ultimate 'nods and winks' that need to go are the constitutional conventions which give the monarch pretend powers as head of state. This proposed radical constitutional reform must include an elected head of state with real powers amenable to democratic process and judicial review.autumnglorynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-486023181312826732009-05-27T12:18:44.479+01:002009-05-27T12:18:44.479+01:00I agree, the monarchy in any capacity and the curr...I agree, the monarchy in any capacity and the current honours system of peerages etc is root and branch toadying to autocratic, arbitrary power. It makes no sense to keep any of this in place, it's the anithesis of democracy and foments an environment of systematic abuse.Marjoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18363980232020329218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-54855919175887022402009-05-27T12:08:57.368+01:002009-05-27T12:08:57.368+01:00Iain,
You have some pretty odd readers - i.e. tho...Iain,<br /><br />You have some pretty odd readers - i.e. those who think they are Tories and yet attack the monarchy. <br /><br />Surely the proper role of the Tory party in British politics, in or out of government, must always include defending the monarchy, the establishment of the church, and the political union of the four countries. Since Disraeli at least there has been a strong "One Nation" aspect. Even under Mrs. Thatcher, who had here Jacobin edges, you could not be a Tory if you wanted to engage in a all out attack on the British order.<br /><br />Some of your readers ought to read Edmnund Burke (yes I know he was a Whig) and his considerations on the effects of revolutionPaul Halsallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602075031268155220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-75606993145398513242009-05-27T11:56:10.243+01:002009-05-27T11:56:10.243+01:00Cameron set out some bones of ideas for much neede...Cameron set out some bones of ideas for much needed reform of our weak democratic system but very little flesh and I'm still waiting for a little feeling of can I trust him.<br /><br />He also failed to mention the biggest hurdle of all that stands in the way of true democracy, the monarchial system. Through this stems unaccountability to the electorate and Prime Ministerial power that neither the people or Parliament would grant him/her. The 'Royal Perogative' cannot be watered down, it must be removed altogether and an elected head of state put in place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78270129815271726152009-05-27T11:07:26.870+01:002009-05-27T11:07:26.870+01:00The UK is too big a country to be micro managed fr...The UK is too big a country to be micro managed from London, Cameron is right in theory to try to create smaller central government, Blair made a good start with devolution but left the biggest part; England out. Create an English Parliament with one chamber and a smaller UK Parliament with 2 houses both elected by whatever means, then review it all again in 10 years! And please can we drop the Queen as head of state?Paul Hogannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-68481138175585380772009-05-27T09:33:35.742+01:002009-05-27T09:33:35.742+01:00I am generally sympathetic to Cameron's campaign, ...I am generally sympathetic to Cameron's campaign, not from any deep love of being a Conservative, but because he is by far the best chance we have of getting rid of Brown and Labour. Better a punch in the stomach than a garrot around the neck. I don't agree with all his ideas in his speech, but glad to see he's adopted MY proposal for local referenda. Not quite sure how his local planning decisions are going to work - will be at a community council level? Also, why do the Tories go on and on about giving parents / patients etc more choice about where they children are educated or their illness treated? People don't want to be bothered to trawl through a list of league tables to pick the best school/hospital. They just want all of them to be run well, and to go to the nearest, with confidence. And finally, what is the terrible pledge by Cameron to safeguard funding in foreign aid whilst cuts in virtually all other areas will continue? Foreign aid would be top of my list for the spending axe!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-41091119978644418472009-05-27T03:07:55.821+01:002009-05-27T03:07:55.821+01:00term Parliaments are a terrible. here in the Stat...term Parliaments are a terrible. here in the State of New South Wales we have fixed Parliaments. this has allowed a grossly corrupt and incompetent Labour Party to hang on to office for 4 terms by manipulation of the news cycle. The last election was in 2007 and somehow Labour managed to con enough people to vote it in again, even though it was quite clear that it was useless. In a few short months the State's finaces collapsed and all manner of scandals arose. But we now have to wait until 2011 before we can turf the bastards out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1914484733866922352009-05-27T01:37:15.385+01:002009-05-27T01:37:15.385+01:00Ken Clarke on 4News explained that fixed term woul...Ken Clarke on 4News explained that fixed term would have to include provision for parties losing majorities etc. exceptions.<br /><br />Anyone who has lived in a country with PR could never make the case for PR to replace FPTP with a straight face. It is a system made for corruption.<br />But the "fairness argument" would sound dangerously plausible to an unsophisticated referendum electorate.<br /><br />PR is like constitutional monarchy - once you have it, it's virtually impossible to remove it.<br />(In times past, a failing dynasty could be replaced by revolution, arrangement, civil war or invitation. Now we are stuck with the Windsors whatever nonsense the future heirlings get up to).Dimotonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-46372054958591992472009-05-27T01:06:34.374+01:002009-05-27T01:06:34.374+01:00Iain Dale:
We put the case for fixed terms, and i...Iain Dale:<br /><br /><I>We put the case for fixed terms, and if this has been accepted by David Cameron, it's a real step forward. I remain of the view that it is totally improper for a Prime Minister to call an election at the time of his or her own political convenience.</I>And it was only a week ago that Iain Dale was calling for a snap election at a time of the Prime Minister's inconvenience.<br /><br />Shome mishtake shurely?<br /><br /><B>You can't have it both ways, Iain. Fixed term parliaments mean that snap elections for any reason are out of the question.</B>Brit.in.Aussienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53936300608150014372009-05-26T23:00:18.348+01:002009-05-26T23:00:18.348+01:00This happens at local level but at the end of the ...This happens at local level but at the end of the day the tail does not wag the dog!Councillor Gill Cartwrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04963586996598588085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-36373951309658660172009-05-26T20:36:19.453+01:002009-05-26T20:36:19.453+01:00Victor,
We already voted FOR the EU in 1973.
An...Victor, <br /><br />We already voted FOR the EU in 1973.<br /><br />And then, when people voted for the Tories in 1983 and 1987.Paul Halsallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01602075031268155220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-40328948888006734562009-05-26T20:26:11.131+01:002009-05-26T20:26:11.131+01:00The principles of this speech and set of proposals...The principles of this speech and set of proposals is excellent and I agree with the points you make in 'how to revive parliament' My conceern about it all is this:<br /><br />The appointment of committees that you highlighted is wrong indeed but the same happens often in local government which makes me wonder if the transfer of power to local government from london will have much positive effect as local government has decayed almost to the point of uselessness.....https://www.blogger.com/profile/09994948020038486015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-6166868175566000952009-05-26T19:34:28.730+01:002009-05-26T19:34:28.730+01:00BE CAREFUL ...
In the seeds of victory lie the as...BE CAREFUL ...<br /><br />In the seeds of victory lie the ashes of destruction ....<br /><br />Thatcher's personal financial legacy was killed off by EU finances under Major. Blair's social spending legacy was killed off by expenses hypocrisy with Brown. It's some thing we volunteer into the ERM or Expense Rules.<br /><br />You see the pattern of defeat? If it is repeated it will be the abuse of individual democracy by a large scale force that will kill off Cameron's successor. <br /><br />History will repeat itself.javelinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04685858339910528013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-62483066136852460482009-05-26T19:18:03.573+01:002009-05-26T19:18:03.573+01:00Paul Halsall
What Charles Clarke may think about ...Paul Halsall<br /><br />What Charles Clarke may think about the EU is irrelevant to the Conservative Party.<br /><br />If Labour is so keen on forcing Cameron's hand over Europe then Brown has the remedy - he can call a General Election, as called for, before the Irish are forced to vote again on what they have already rejected.<br /><br />And, why are they being forced to vote again? Because their political class considers that those who voted No were the great unwashed, a rabble of no account. <br /><br />Let us remember that several Labour politicians, not including Charles Clarke, have stated that the Treaty is too difficult for the ordinary folk to vote on as we would not understand it. Rather like Caroline Flint , the Minister for Europe and Brian Cowen, the Irish PM. Neither of those have read it. But they are for it!Victor, NW Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14778890471547456396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-22321850713944969182009-05-26T19:09:21.673+01:002009-05-26T19:09:21.673+01:00We seem to be getting diverted from the Euro Elect...We seem to be getting diverted from the Euro Elections.<br /><br />Wonder if Brown covertly released the expenses to divert the media from his crass mismanagement of our affairs.<br /><br />However - while Cameron's proposals for making executive power more democratically accessible are welcome.<br /><br />We were promised a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. <br />Failure to deliver is a key part of the distrust of Brown and our politicians in general.<br /><br />We need a Referendum to draw the poison - and for many it is the single issue for the Euro elections.<br /><br />It has become a fundamental measure of honesty for many electors.<br /><br />Why is Cameron tiptoeing round the issueGlynnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07218848298750398291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-43763051570171588802009-05-26T19:04:53.118+01:002009-05-26T19:04:53.118+01:00If Dave thinks this will placate public anger over...If Dave thinks this will placate public anger over MP's expenses and the separation of politicos form the public, he obviously still isn’t getting it. <br /><br />We need a mechanism to sack MP’s. <br /><br />We need an elected upper house. <br /><br />MP’s need to be given more power to scrutinize government legislation. <br /><br />We need reform of how the commons works and cut the amount of MP's holidays. No worker in the UK gets 3 months off the gather in the Harvest, like MP’s do!<br /><br />We need the public to give their input into committees and have there submissions considered. <br /><br />We require fixed term parliaments. <br /><br />We need the power to elect chief constables. <br /><br />We demand the end of absolute laws. <br /><br />We demand an end to Stealth Taxes.<br /><br />We demand an end to the Surveillance society CCTV and ID Cards, an end to the E-mail, phone, Text, DNA databases. <br /><br />We demand we ge a referendum's on the issues above with an independent commission to set the referendum wording!<br /><br />This would be a start Dave!!!!<br /><br />Ulster unionist & Conservative<br /><br />Ulster Till Idieranger1640https://www.blogger.com/profile/14455491694468480944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-26930151094332128802009-05-26T18:56:13.262+01:002009-05-26T18:56:13.262+01:00But the problem with this decentralisation reform ...But the problem with this decentralisation reform is that it needs wholesale reform of local government too. We need a wholly new model that will make local politics worthwhile and attract in political talent. Given the average IQ of some local councillors( and their propensity for small town hand in the till cronyism) we need root and branch reform across the entire system.<br /><br />That could be an election winner. But have the Tories got the balls for it? <br /><br />ALanCynichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04852867933348403214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-52299937413827585652009-05-26T18:52:22.583+01:002009-05-26T18:52:22.583+01:00"But the one thing which he has announced which wi..."But the one thing which he has announced which will meet firm opposition from Whitehall is to transfer competence for many areas away from Whitehall "<br /><br /><br />...presumably with a real large cut in civil service numbers. That's the real prize - a 20% cut would go a significant way to helping the debt repayments, although many of them would find it difficult to get work elsewhereCynichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04852867933348403214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-24051743904897199072009-05-26T18:29:12.033+01:002009-05-26T18:29:12.033+01:00@ Paul Halsall
"I once had some sympathy with the...@ Paul Halsall<br /><br />"I once had some sympathy with the left wing/Bennite critique of the EU"<br /><br />Translation: I was against the EU when that was Party policy.<br /><br />"But now I think a winder (sic) historical perspective is worthwhile."<br /><br />Translation: but the Party has changed it's mind, and the Party is infinitely wiser than I am.<br /><br />"Cameron's refusal to defend an EU that he actually seems to agree with seems to me to indicate his basic weakness as a leader."<br /><br />Translation: and whatever position the Conservative's take is wrong, even if I have to hedge my bet's a little.Andrew Knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-25196067895076374332009-05-26T17:39:06.680+01:002009-05-26T17:39:06.680+01:00I think one of the big challenges here is sorting ...I think one of the big challenges here is sorting out local councils. I have lived in the hardest of hard core Labour areas, the North East, and now live in a hard core Tory area, Surrey, and frankly its difficult to spot the difference.<br />My local council has increased council tax by above inflation and a neighbouring authority has imposed huge car parking charges for its town centre at the same time as shops are closing leaving the place like a ghost town. The impression is that both councils are being driven by unelected officers, who are paid huge salaries and simply want to milk local businesses and council tax payers to fund their pet projects. The controlling Tory groups are either to lazy to controll the officers or are happy to milk people. We come back to the problem that not enough people vote in local elections and many who can vote don't directly pay to fund the councils. I also suspect the quality of many councillors is poor. Cameron needs a root and branch overall of local authorities and the whole system they operate in before he passes more control and funding to them.TonyHendohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07566080053891345776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-9669451598733958082009-05-26T16:34:17.359+01:002009-05-26T16:34:17.359+01:00You'd be right - Cameron would have a tough fight ...You'd be right - Cameron would have a tough fight getting a lot of these measures through. But it's a fight he must be prepared to take part in.<br /><br />Let's be having more radical ideas from him, please.The Grim Reaperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05543130733645367498noreply@blogger.com