tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post4363866999150178707..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Never in the Field of...Iain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger87125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-138648350133865142007-07-15T17:37:00.000+01:002007-07-15T17:37:00.000+01:00I never did Churchill at school in history - becau...I never did Churchill at school in history - because my history courses ended at 1918, much like Sellars' and Yeatman's.<BR/><BR/>"America was thus clearly Top Nation and history came to a stop."Richard Gadsdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10545595590359552775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-89101702529533498232007-07-14T14:07:00.000+01:002007-07-14T14:07:00.000+01:00If winston was 'the best PM ever', then why didn't...If winston was 'the best PM ever', then why didn't you Tories vote him in?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-24286531165625603222007-07-14T04:37:00.000+01:002007-07-14T04:37:00.000+01:00Forthhurst 4.52:There was no soviet union proceedi...Forthhurst 4.52:<BR/>There was no soviet union proceeding the first world war, tipical EUssrphile, putting cart before Orse as usual.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-58980933482328993592007-07-13T21:32:00.000+01:002007-07-13T21:32:00.000+01:00The government has no business running schools, le...The government has no business running schools, let alone telling them what to teach. All schools should be private (fee-paying or charitable) with full discretion to choose what they teach and to whom. <BR/><BR/>The only exception should be a prohibition on incitement to murder, for religious or other reasons.<BR/><BR/>My school history lessons covered only the period 1485 (Bosworth) to 1688 (Glorious Revolution) and were none the worse for that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31762157445166983112007-07-13T17:15:00.000+01:002007-07-13T17:15:00.000+01:00Not surprisingly, Farthurst, I do not know the ans...Not surprisingly, Farthurst, I do not know the answer.<BR/><BR/>But rest assured, the same elements of the argument are fought over every year in about May. It is called the Eurovison Song contest, and a careful analysis of the tactical voting, esepecially those of the Baltic States, may help you with your recondite historical enquiries.<BR/><BR/>And now enough! Mrs Weasel is expecting tea, and she likes it hot on the dining room table, with french bread cut in nice oblique slices, so I must be away to the kitchen and get busy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-9307722232757698852007-07-13T17:06:00.000+01:002007-07-13T17:06:00.000+01:00""There had been no history teaching to speak of i...""There had been no history teaching to speak of in our schools for decades" - try telling that to my daughter who has just completed her history A level and who, I suspect, knows a great deal more about British history than Helen does!"<BR/><BR/>You reckon? Why go into personal attacks then? Actually, even when I was doing History A level (which was exactly one third more than the same exam a few years ago - I checked) the teaching of history was iffy. <BR/><BR/>Frankly, anyone who thinks taking and even passing exams is the same as learning a subject knows nothing about education.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-13795123911393261142007-07-13T16:52:00.000+01:002007-07-13T16:52:00.000+01:00yes wrinkled weasel, but you are now drunk and you...yes wrinkled weasel, but you are now drunk and your brain and liver will be more shrunken in the morning.<BR/><BR/>PS As a matter of interest, do you believe that following the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact which preceded WWII, we should have declared war on the Soviet Union as well as Germany in order to protect the independence of Poland? After all we were in no position to defeat either party, so why not go for the jackpot?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-8366594392828006812007-07-13T16:50:00.000+01:002007-07-13T16:50:00.000+01:00Don't get too upset, Weasel.Forthurst is one of th...Don't get too upset, Weasel.<BR/><BR/>Forthurst is one of those people who cannot put his or her point across without insulting anyone who disagrees with them.<BR/><BR/>He or she was probably bullied at school.<BR/><BR/>Good...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-945902542430210722007-07-13T16:34:00.000+01:002007-07-13T16:34:00.000+01:00There is nothing like a grown up mature and reason...There is nothing like a grown up mature and reasoned debate on a Friday afternoon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-80695596079735557852007-07-13T16:30:00.000+01:002007-07-13T16:30:00.000+01:00"wrinkled weasel is a drunken git"yes, my dear far..."wrinkled weasel is a drunken git"<BR/><BR/>yes, my dear farthurst, but in the morning I will be sober. You will still be a git.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-42158925062262473192007-07-13T16:12:00.000+01:002007-07-13T16:12:00.000+01:00wrinkled weasel is a drunken git which is presumab...wrinkled weasel is a drunken git which is presumably why he so admires Churchill and I have read plenty enough history to come to conclusions which are based on facts, having discounted the self-serving propaganda which is presented as history to people without the intellectual capacity to think for themselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-46642624161987739932007-07-13T15:53:00.000+01:002007-07-13T15:53:00.000+01:00As a History graduate, I'm losing the will to live...As a History graduate, I'm losing the will to live. Someone get my an AK-47 so that I can put us all out of our misery?<BR/><BR/>http://conservativemindblog.blogspot.com/2007/07/at-my-wits-end.htmlSir-C4'https://www.blogger.com/profile/03917709983378003032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63184694596934190292007-07-13T15:05:00.000+01:002007-07-13T15:05:00.000+01:00The weekly timetable on the front page of The Inde...The weekly timetable on the front page of The Independent today makes interesting reading. <BR/><BR/>5 periods a week of Maths and 6 of English, seems sensible, not much change from 45 years ago.<BR/><BR/>But beyond them, a large number of subjects commanding just one hour a week each (Languages, Science, global warming, British values, History, etc, etc). Are children really going to learn a foreign language in one hour a week? And science used be broken down into chemistry, physics and biology, with a total of several periods a week. These scientific topics seem to be just as important to the Nation today as they were in the early 60s. For example, they all have an important role to play in understanding global warming, developing new medical products, etc.<BR/><BR/>This looks like a timetable for diletantees rather than for children who want to develop real knowledge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-29235629714321209642007-07-13T14:54:00.000+01:002007-07-13T14:54:00.000+01:00I feel with time and the right therapy I will be a...I feel with time and the right therapy I will be able to sustain my spirits despite this grievous blow. Your snippy nit picking is puerile and your , naturally , unsubstantiated claim that “ You know best” , is all to typical of the self serving conceit of minority whose loyalties are not along national lines. <BR/><BR/>Thus it has always been.Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-2451841541319341332007-07-13T14:52:00.000+01:002007-07-13T14:52:00.000+01:00Forthurst = Verity wannabeeForthurst = Verity wannabeeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-44419163512484983362007-07-13T14:49:00.000+01:002007-07-13T14:49:00.000+01:00Forthhurst, are you on drugs. If not, you should b...Forthhurst, are you on drugs. If not, you should be.<BR/><BR/>My motto, and it has always been thus, is,<BR/><BR/>"if you want to win, hire a bastard"<BR/><BR/>Churchill was a bastard. He was very, very, drunk. He was more hissy than a Piccadilly poofter. But he knew, from the bottom of his heart what the stakes were and what needed to be done. If Atlee had been in charge, or heaven forbid Eden, we would all be speaking German and Alan Yentob would be making Bagels in Poland - if he was lucky.<BR/><BR/>Get real, smell the barley cup, and read some history. Git.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-62413542528746210432007-07-13T14:38:00.000+01:002007-07-13T14:38:00.000+01:00Churchill is bullshit, an essential part of a nati...Churchill is bullshit, an essential part of a national self-delusion. People say "what if Hitler had one?" but never ask "what if Stalin had won?". We were lucky that Japan was provoked into attacking the American Empire otherwise the whole of Eurasia including ourselves would have been imprisoned in a Bolshevik gulag.<BR/>Stalin was a good guy until 1945 and then became a bad guy - oh dear, what a surprise, but only if you believe the self-serving nonsense which constitutes your premise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-51429924352087548832007-07-13T14:20:00.000+01:002007-07-13T14:20:00.000+01:00If you think I'm responding to that poorly typed a...If you think I'm responding to that poorly typed and mis-spelled rant which betrays nothing but a total ignorance of European politics, well I'm not.<BR/><BR/>You might try studying Churchill though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-59507139536115737922007-07-13T14:02:00.000+01:002007-07-13T14:02:00.000+01:00You trying to get “Close and personal “.... “ Davi...You trying to get “Close and personal “.... “ David “..... Newmania will do fine .<BR/><I>Your question asking "why it is you hate this country so much as to wish for it to cease to exist" is based on a fundamental mistake which I believe you make deliberately and maliciously. I hold no such views.</I><BR/><BR/>Then why do you wish to hand its rule over to unelected bureaucrats whose often stated objective is a United States of Europ. With it they intend to challenge American dominance,impose socialism and a European social model requiring a loss of Liberty, high taxes , protectionism and reducing nations to regions especially this one . Quite aside from the waste and necessary unaccountability of a democratic unti where there is no demos . £5000 per household just so Milliband can waffle on about the climate with the Germans !! Good deal . Why is the EU element in our laws consistently hidden and why is Gordon Brown lying about the nature of the Constitution when the rest of Europe knows the red lines are worthless? How can all this proceed when a clear majority does not want it detesting as they do the imposition of alien legal systems overriding our Common law and Parliament .<BR/><BR/><I>However, Lord Maugham (then Lord Chancellor) wrote in early 1944 a defence of Munich which is worth reading ("The Truth about the Munich Crisis"). Essentially Maugham tries to etc.</I><BR/><BR/>He will naturally have tried to save his reputation , which , with other other appeasers of Hitler will be forever as a coward and more particularly a fool. “Because Hitler repudiated an agreement he never intended to keep.”..... of course !!!!<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><I>What Maugham reveals is that Chamberlain's approach was based on pessimism about the chances of Britain obtaining international allies.</I><BR/>I see , ( I think) you mean because we are always going to be isolated in Europe we would rather not be in it .Esoteric to the point of irrelevance . That does not approximate even remotely to the attitude of Euro sceptics who wish this country to rule itself and do not accept that pooling sovereignty is compatible with a nation state . Not a problem for Germans of course who for most of their history have been federated regions under an empire and have no democratic tradition <B>or much to be proud of.</B><BR/>The Pro Europe position is pessimistic in that it imagines tossed on the cruel seas of free world trade we will be “unable to go it alone”. This in fact was why Conservatives voted for the EU in the first place the Common Market as it was misleadingly called. In fact we could easily join the trade group with Norway ..or not . In any case the importance of Europe in world terms recedes daily. I would accept however that the only reason there is any support for the project is the sense that we are blackmailed by the prospect of fortress Europe. It is the single and only reason for having anything to do with them except as a holiday destination. Or perhaps you feel that that a Lithuanian should have as much say in the rule of London as I do ? Theres not much in it . We live in the Region of London<BR/><BR/><BR/> <I>Also to be noted is Maugham's belief that it was better for Czechoslovakia to be dismembered than for the Czechs to suffer damage to their economy, which chimes with the commonly expressed but mistaken Eurosceptic <BR/>belief that European union should only be about economic matters and trade and not about political unity.</I> <BR/><BR/>Damage to their economy ? Their economy ?!!!! This was after the Anshluss and justified by the German ethnic population of Sudetan land . Incidentally you might want to wonder the Poles are not quite as keen as the Germans on regional self <BR/>Determination for diverse ethnicities as the Germans ...wonder why eh ? This is absurdly anachronistic. The economy was hardly the point in what was actually the continuation of the Great war by temporarily other means. It is the EU who wish to dismemeber nations states by dealing bi-laterally with regions and offering grants at “Borders “ so as to destabilise them. <BR/><B>It is , as I have said , a damn good job we were not , at that time reduced to the level of a quizzling set of Brussels dependencies because had we been the Wermacht would not have been stopped.</B><BR/><BR/><B>If there is one lesson of this period it is the essential value of the nation state . Its value is that it is a modern approximation to the tribal homeland and an extended cultural family.<BR/>It is required for Liberal Democracy and defence because noone will either fight for or pool resources with , or compromise with strangers .The notion of Britain is now so attenuated that it is increasingly difficult to pool resources hence the bitterness common against immigrants and the Barnett formula.<BR/>Your narrative is liken a game of twister . It might be fun but it looks ridiculous.</B>Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-47368093684116823412007-07-13T13:13:00.000+01:002007-07-13T13:13:00.000+01:00Is this the best the right wing can do. I attended...Is this the best the right wing can do. I attended secondary school, between 1980 and 1985, Churchill wasnt on the curriculum then, didnt seem to upset the Thatcher nuttersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-21644387028711486082007-07-13T12:52:00.000+01:002007-07-13T12:52:00.000+01:00Are teachers communists who target schools as the ...Are teachers communists who target schools as the best way to propagate their viewpoint, or is there something about the profession of teaching which persuades its practitioners that they know more than everyone else, and they become extremists on the strength of it?<BR/><BR/>I mean. They obviously know more. That's why all those kids sit and listen to them all day, and someone keeps sending them money every month.<BR/><BR/>From outside the profession, on the other hand, the adage, 'if you can't do it, teach it' - certainly seems to be an accurate reflection on the true capabilities of many teachers...once they stray away from their teaching specialisation. <BR/><BR/>Maybe they have an inner rage at their own incompetence, and they get secret satisfaction by holding extreme political views and propagating them against their sworn enemies - the competent and the capable.<BR/><BR/>Fortunately most kids can tell when their teachers are bigoted half wits - and they can tell when their teachers rightly command their respect. The same goes for the setters of the national curriculum. <BR/><BR/>If schools were set free from central control and could decide their own curricula, parents would have a choice. The central control of education is and has been a national disaster. Getting rid of Churchill merely confirms the stupidity of the system which we already know about. Localise.Tapestryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267094484651413428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-30609146887812778222007-07-13T12:49:00.000+01:002007-07-13T12:49:00.000+01:00So Tories are actually complaining about the fact ...So Tories are actually complaining about the fact that power is being handed back to the teachers to decide on curriculum details? Isn't that exactly what they keep asking for? Very strange.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-74517992946339351622007-07-13T12:46:00.000+01:002007-07-13T12:46:00.000+01:00What I notice about the teaching of history is tha...What I notice about the teaching of history is that even given there is some residual attention given to the narrative of the nation its stops at the early modern period ( Elizabethan say) and starts again with the Industrial revolution.<BR/>The intervevning period has popped out of existence. Of course this is only my impressionNewmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-76724935518671732302007-07-13T12:45:00.000+01:002007-07-13T12:45:00.000+01:00This is not aimed just at Churchill but also at Gh...This is not aimed just at Churchill but also at Ghandi, Luther-King, Hitler and Stalin too.<BR/><BR/>Consequently, Brown's Labour Government can pretend the Lurch is a great leader rather than the great tyrant he actually is!<BR/><BR/>After all younger people will not now the real difference between them. They will listen to Chairman Lurch and he will tell them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-69478026407156825612007-07-13T12:43:00.000+01:002007-07-13T12:43:00.000+01:00"they want to stop teaching Winston Churchill"I th..."they want to stop teaching Winston Churchill"<BR/><BR/>I thought Winnie's USP was that he never learned? - even when long dead!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com