tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post4338530549049246682..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: The Big Brother State Enters SchoolsIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-33143826457273538312010-09-15T11:21:52.052+01:002010-09-15T11:21:52.052+01:00everyone is ignoring another side to this. My daug...everyone is ignoring another side to this. My daughter's school introduced this system last year. A short time later, over half the school was off with the norovirus. The contamination was spread through the fingerprint swipe.Guy de Ferrerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16082557206156132157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-18249192897593374162010-09-14T16:52:52.917+01:002010-09-14T16:52:52.917+01:00In common with most boys of my age (mid forties) m...In common with most boys of my age (mid forties) my hands never stayed clean long enough for this to have worked with any degree of reliability. Balsa cement and Qink laminated my fingertips. Indeed wouldn't a false fingertip skin made from latex work in order to confound the system? Well within the craft skills of the average 13 year old back then.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06358349301959327747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-10895630922233785902010-09-14T16:09:36.144+01:002010-09-14T16:09:36.144+01:00Always knew the Brave New World was coming.
Just ...Always knew the Brave New World was coming.<br /><br />Just didn't figure it would kick off in Saffron Walden.HampsteadOwlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10579484010636107402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-80772668958847735932010-09-14T13:26:25.859+01:002010-09-14T13:26:25.859+01:00Are you practising to become a Daily Mail columnis...Are you practising to become a Daily Mail columnist?<br /><br />Get a grip, if you don't like the scheme then opt out.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16801051251247458947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-23168478839818784672010-09-14T13:18:22.018+01:002010-09-14T13:18:22.018+01:00Swipe cards get lost or stolen (one reason why man...Swipe cards get lost or stolen (one reason why many schools are looking this technology for secure entry systems).Nigelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18171835878570773595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-35925002626513293552010-09-14T11:44:29.503+01:002010-09-14T11:44:29.503+01:00If bullying over free school dinners is a problem ...If bullying over free school dinners is a problem deal with the bullys. It's much cheaper than these things!<br /><br />If hounding children over their receipt of free school meals is wrong, and the school wants children to see that it is wrong, you won't deal with the problem by turning away from it with fingerprints, cards or other technical 'solutions'.<br /><br />If the fingerprinting is to avoid the potential for bullying why are some schools using the same systems in place of library cards?Garethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11182144080955551878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-32620320505259536882010-09-14T11:24:14.436+01:002010-09-14T11:24:14.436+01:00The Brave New world of socialism, where you have n...The Brave New world of socialism, where you have nothing to worry about provided you are a loyal party member.<br />Why are they not using swipe cards?Penfoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16946700329323417719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-42581539717809706692010-09-14T10:09:31.980+01:002010-09-14T10:09:31.980+01:00>>I can imagine that if there is a theft at ...>>I can imagine that if there is a theft at the school then the police will want to access the school's fingerprint records and once they have it then it will be stored away like all the other fingerprints and DNA they get from innocent people.<<<br /><br />You might well imagine this, JMB, but you'd be entirely wrong.<br />Firstly, the police wouldn't want access, as the data held would be of no use to them in the manner you imagine; secondly, they wouldn't be entitled to make any such request.<br /><br />I am entirely in agreement with those who are anxious about the amount information the state holds on all of us, and the uses it is put to. Such concern in this case, however, is misguided.Nigelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18171835878570773595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-32183217998718470332010-09-14T10:08:15.147+01:002010-09-14T10:08:15.147+01:00The company that offers this service to our school...The company that offers this service to our school has a strong privacy statement, but that can be changed at any time, merely by an update on their web site. The only way to opt out is to refuse to take meals at school, as information on purchases is collected regardless of whether you use the finger-print system. Here's the quote:<br /><br />"By publishing a Change Notice on our website (www.xx.com), we may modify any of the terms and conditions within this Agreement at any time and at our sole discretion, such Change Notice to give at least 30 days notice. If any of the modifications are unacceptable to you, your only recourse is to terminate using the service. If you use xx beyond 30 days after the Change Notice, it will be considered as your acceptance of the change."Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01434643109723382304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-14671637276449218382010-09-14T09:52:22.166+01:002010-09-14T09:52:22.166+01:00"The main reason? To stop the stigma of being..."The main reason? To stop the stigma of being on "Free dinners" that flashing a card to the dinner server always brings"<br /><br />Typical - screw up a working system and then "fix" it.<br /><br />In my school we had dinner tickets and the free ones were almost indistinguishable from the rest. Sorted. No need for electronic bollox used as a smokescreen to get hold of what they really want - fingerprints. This is doubleplusgood as in the process some parasitical rent-seeking tech company can "thank" people for spending other peoples' money on its kit.Roger Thornhillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03591327286533118901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-69517065325079787242010-09-14T09:19:02.227+01:002010-09-14T09:19:02.227+01:00I don't like it at all.
But it's been in ...I don't like it at all.<br /><br />But it's been in use in school libraries for <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/07/22/fingerprinting_of_uk_school_kids/" rel="nofollow">ten years or more.</a>Labanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12031578024191117985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-82292023926799131662010-09-14T09:07:29.884+01:002010-09-14T09:07:29.884+01:00Having read the comments to date I'd add a few...Having read the comments to date I'd add a few further views. Some time ago our LEA apparently agreed with Department of Health to insist that all children be weighed regularly throughout their attendance in schools. <br /><br />I took the advice of parents. Many of them were seriously concerned that this information would be passed on to unknown third parties and that the whole process would cause embarrassment (or worse) to some children who might be regarded as 'over' or 'under' weight. The LEA offered its assurances to the Governors (via the Head Teacher) that the information given to it would be secure, but naturally could not offer such assurances on behalf of the Department. It then admitted that it would be passing the details to other government agencies. No guarantees were given as to security etc. Further, it transpired that there was already a plan to link these details to those already being extracted from GPs practices.<br /><br />The Governors, rightly, refused the request.<br /><br />It's all very well saying that this practice occurs in some schools. That is their choice. I do not see why it should therefore be regarded as mandatory.<br /><br />As a matter of interest, one of my schools is a particularly large and successful Primary. Dinner money is collected by the School Office, entirely separately from the (bought in) catering arrangements. The number of those entitled to free school meals is relatively high. There is absolutely no discrimination and the school staff exercise considerable discretion and decent care for all their charges.<br /><br />I'm staggered that Brenda's school seems to operate in this manner. It's relatively easy to ensure proper confidentiality of such sensitive information. I'm also surprised that she is employed as a teacher, but that is another matter. <br /><br />The arguments that such systems are technically flawed are crass. They are based on the notion that it's OK to do this sort of thing without due consideration,consultation and agreement, and that such systems' performances will never improve - nor will they be modified for other purposes.Unsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307116169498533047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-27911439962514965962010-09-14T08:50:30.180+01:002010-09-14T08:50:30.180+01:00Remember the NuLabor mantra - "If you've ...Remember the NuLabor mantra - "If you've got nothing to hide ..."Barnacle Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17257546424880537005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-4334852348405292622010-09-14T07:54:30.594+01:002010-09-14T07:54:30.594+01:00You may have ' won ' the election but big ...You may have ' won ' the election but big government is still there carrying on regardless, and you should have dealt with the BBC on day 2Guthrumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17499979740864497256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-88521896260255985882010-09-14T07:42:30.295+01:002010-09-14T07:42:30.295+01:00Iain,
As a school we have much more confidential d...Iain,<br />As a school we have much more confidential data than just an identifier of a fingerprint.<br />The system has been in place for years and remove the stigma of free-school meals.<br /><br />The "Business Manager" jibe is greatly appreciated, Thanks. <br /><br />The government has given schools independence over multi-million pound budgets (you know, grant maintained, city technology colleges, academies), someone has to be responsible for this and Head teachers have better things to do, like directing and developing excellent teaching and learning.<br /><br />We could easily get rid of business managers if school funds were managed by the local authority. - But that wouldn't fit your other arguements would it?Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06263810591155253897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-81181600799788887852010-09-14T07:10:34.945+01:002010-09-14T07:10:34.945+01:00Big Brother? What about interfering nosey parents...Big Brother? What about interfering nosey parents?!<br /><br />This system allows parents and guardians to view every item their child purchases, down to the last chip.<br /><br />I thought school was all about gaining independence, taking personal responsibility, growing up?<br /><br />If my children felt that I could see every item they purchase I would have a rebellion on my hands. I'd like to think they have developed good eating habits from the examples gained at home. So what if they now occasionally get a packet of crisps from the corner shop. Can't we stop infantalising our future?<br /><br />Another brick in the wall!Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13107845101737790640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-4126185196056092012010-09-14T06:07:15.607+01:002010-09-14T06:07:15.607+01:00A teacher,BrendaC, writes:
This way noone is none...A teacher,BrendaC, writes:<br /><br /><i>This way noone is none the wiser...</i><br /><br />saints preserve us.Mick Turatianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12533201193634948442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-89321929271325126432010-09-14T03:01:09.605+01:002010-09-14T03:01:09.605+01:00Meet the State - Blair explains how he wants lots...Meet the State - Blair explains how he wants lots of kids removed from their parents. Children are in their sights.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6xbKFlawOkTapestryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267094484651413428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-86090918249662102022010-09-14T01:13:19.091+01:002010-09-14T01:13:19.091+01:00Any schoolteacher or assistant that cannot recogni...Any schoolteacher or assistant that cannot recognise a child is in the wrong job. <br />The best Headmaster I had told me that no school should be so large that the Headmaster did not know each of his pupils and retain in his head their academic and behavioral records <br />Everyone who thinks that this is a technical question about using fingerprints as an identifier is off-beam - it is debasing teachers, children and lunch ladies to the level of automatonsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90601348399143649102010-09-14T00:38:59.550+01:002010-09-14T00:38:59.550+01:00"No matter how many assurances that are given..."No matter how many assurances that are given, you're still trusting the state to look after the most personal of information."<br /><br />Presumably you and your contributors refuse to visit the United States?<br /><br />Get a grip.Jimmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01542633492362670045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-44183365905122025692010-09-14T00:16:00.970+01:002010-09-14T00:16:00.970+01:00"Hello Iain I am afraid, you have got it wron..."Hello Iain I am afraid, you have got it wrong. They do NOT take your fingerprints. They take a look at your fingerprints and produce a unique identifier. From this identifier your fingerprints cannot be reconstructed."<br /><br />But isn't that what the police do for the initial searches? They only look at the actual prints when they get a close match.<br /><br />I can imagine that if there is a theft at the school then the police will want to access the school's fingerprint records and once they have it then it will be stored away like all the other fingerprints and DNA they get from innocent people.<br /><br />How long before a chip is embedded in newly born babies like is done with dogs?JMBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13862227988978988383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-67602925693932231892010-09-14T00:03:37.873+01:002010-09-14T00:03:37.873+01:00Fingerprints ?
You have not seen anything yet.
ht...Fingerprints ?<br />You have not seen anything yet.<br /><br />http://www.drugresearcher.com/Tools-and-techniques/FDA-clears-RFID-chip-for-humans<br /><br />My cat has one of these.<br />Of course the article above relates to a human microchip implant containing medical data.<br />Well medical data only for now anyway.<br />It would also be possible to track a persons whereabouts anywhere on the planet if tied into GPS.<br />Sinister.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07797024943108120410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-5782382205611832402010-09-13T23:47:41.724+01:002010-09-13T23:47:41.724+01:00Brenda: "The main reason? To stop the stigma ...Brenda: <i>"The main reason? To stop the stigma of being on "Free dinners" that flashing a card to the dinner server always brings"</i><br /><br />If the fingerprint produces a numeric ID, why not teach the kids to remember a number? Too difficult for teachers these days?<br /><br /><i>"Understand the civil lib concerns, but pales into insignificance when put alongside the houding of children from poor families"</i><br /><br />Nothing pales into insignificance when compared with, as Brian says, the acclimatisation of youngsters to being surreptitiously tagged.<br /><br />And, yet again, it's 'opt-out' rather than 'opt-in'. <br /><br />Brenda, are you seriously saying that the ONLY way of hiding the fact that kids are given free dinners is by fingerprinting EVERY kid in the school? You're a teacher yet you have no imagination further than that?<br /><br />God help the kids.Dick Puddlecotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01481866882188932892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-69862441607470174452010-09-13T23:09:05.023+01:002010-09-13T23:09:05.023+01:00This happened in my children's school over a y...This happened in my children's school over a year ago. We opted out and it hasn't caused any problems for the kids.<br /><br />It is only a matter of time before there is a huge data loss....LazyChickenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15538529296422144235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1262701236858062682010-09-13T23:08:14.506+01:002010-09-13T23:08:14.506+01:00#Nigel sleepwalk if you want to but some politicia...#Nigel sleepwalk if you want to but some politicians are corrupt as are governments.<br /><br />http://newsnetscotland.com/beyond/504-labour-msp-investigated-over-schoolchildren-datacynicalHighlanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034325908473006163noreply@blogger.com