tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post3952293362952144119..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: The Pre-Planned LibDem Stunt That Went WrongIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-54513487656948530322008-02-27T15:34:00.000+00:002008-02-27T15:34:00.000+00:00Yes, Ed. Despite the fact that I generally side wi...Yes, Ed. Despite the fact that I generally side with the LibDems, I am a little uneasy at their referendum suggestion. In short, I don't trust their motives. It's fairly obvious they are banking on people voting yes. But it might just be the right idea. Either that or a sort of multiple-choice referendum on our approach to the EU, then a second round with the 2 favourite options in a straight fight.<BR/><BR/>But Clegg shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. The Tory right can put up or shut up. And if I had my way it would be a free vote, with all 3 parties able to campaign for or against.asquithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246701347539264295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-29819713275356003072008-02-27T12:06:00.000+00:002008-02-27T12:06:00.000+00:00The debate in the house was about the ratification...The debate in the house was about the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty. How the Lib Dems believed that an amendment to have a referendum on continued membership of the EU has any relevance to the debate I do not know. And to throw a big hissy fit about it and throw their limited number of inferior toys out of the pram just shows them up as a party that cannot be taken seriously.<BR/><BR/>Time for them and Labour to cut the crap and start honouring manifesto pledges and have a referendum on Lisbon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-23926629729501354552008-02-27T11:54:00.000+00:002008-02-27T11:54:00.000+00:00I agree with Asquith! An in-out referendum would ...I agree with Asquith! An in-out referendum would be a once in a generation opportunity to have a proper debate about the pros and cons of our membership of the EU. People would have a chance to see all the facts and make up their own mind.<BR/><BR/>However Clegg is totally wrong. He thinks that an in-out referendum would scare people into voting "in" and that then the government would have free reign to implement any EU treaty. He doesn't understand that no Parliament may bind its successors and that no referendum could be taken as an invitation to never ask the people what they think ever again.Old BEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06974090439936326476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-13297045181427977362008-02-27T11:39:00.000+00:002008-02-27T11:39:00.000+00:00I bet you couldn't drink as much as your average L...I bet you couldn't drink as much as your average LibDem, buddy.asquithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246701347539264295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1109271017156325242008-02-27T11:25:00.000+00:002008-02-27T11:25:00.000+00:00Honestly - the LibDems - a more hopeless bunch of ...Honestly - the LibDems - a more hopeless bunch of misfits you could never hope to find.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31297378913055235382008-02-27T09:55:00.000+00:002008-02-27T09:55:00.000+00:00Man In A Shed, and others (Iain Dale included), ex...Man In A Shed, and others (Iain Dale included), exactly how would you vote if you had the choice between in and out? <BR/><BR/>Does anyone seriously think the Tories would differ from Labour in their attitude to Europe if they were in office? <BR/><BR/>If Cameron got into government, wouldn't he just let the backbenchers and the far right down like every other Tory government has towards Europe?<BR/><BR/>Shouldn't you be the ones who want a choice between being in the EU or not, so you can nail your true colours to the mast?<BR/><BR/>See Bob Piper's post.asquithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246701347539264295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-87593150038124437902008-02-27T09:44:00.000+00:002008-02-27T09:44:00.000+00:00Mark, do you deny that it was planned for Goldswor...Mark, do you deny that it was planned for Goldsworthy and Baker to get ejected too?Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-85045113973934470772008-02-27T09:40:00.000+00:002008-02-27T09:40:00.000+00:00Tee hee, Libs get EU debate almost noticed shock. ...Tee hee, Libs get EU debate almost noticed shock. Tories do nothing horror...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-36100178334668134042008-02-27T09:32:00.000+00:002008-02-27T09:32:00.000+00:00Not only have they made "tits" of themselves but t...Not only have they made "tits" of themselves but their policy of trying to get a referendum on whether we should stay in or out is totally ridiculous. The issue is at the moment is whether we stay in the EU on an ever tighter leash towards a super state or whether we stay in as part of an extended Common Market, which we voted for all those years ago. <BR/><BR/>Rather than discuss this they put up a straw man to knock down. They just want the discussion to range on the UKIP policy territory which is only relevant once the EU prevents us from asserting our own independence within the EU. <BR/><BR/>In other words, as with NuLab, they want to stifle discussion on the issues of relevance to most citizens of this country.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-14443539619044931702008-02-27T09:24:00.000+00:002008-02-27T09:24:00.000+00:00Lets face it this is all about Lib Dem MPs trying ...Lets face it this is all about Lib Dem MPs trying to save their seats by pretending to be Eurospectic when their party and especially their leader are busy campaigning for the UK to be reduced to a region of the EU.<BR/><BR/>Lib Dems - two faced ? I should say so !Man in a Shedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00990902055642035293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-7911012972097994752008-02-27T09:22:00.000+00:002008-02-27T09:22:00.000+00:00Iain, OT but I understand the biggest earthquake t...Iain, OT but I understand the biggest earthquake to hit England in 24 yrs happened last night.<BR/><BR/>You must have been having a LOT of fun!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-73066306642584999692008-02-27T09:19:00.000+00:002008-02-27T09:19:00.000+00:00Just because you say something Iain, does not make...Just because you say something Iain, does not make it so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-72478774347551436952008-02-27T09:14:00.000+00:002008-02-27T09:14:00.000+00:00Sign seen on the Palace of Westminster:"Liberal De...Sign seen on the Palace of Westminster:<BR/><BR/>"Liberal Democrats Whining Here!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-9446397322652170002008-02-27T09:08:00.000+00:002008-02-27T09:08:00.000+00:00Once the Treaty of Lisbon passes into UK law Parli...Once the Treaty of Lisbon passes into UK law Parliament is completely irrelevant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31286299111475703752008-02-27T08:41:00.000+00:002008-02-27T08:41:00.000+00:00I'll still be loyal, this isn't nearly enough to m...I'll still be loyal, this isn't nearly enough to move me.asquithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246701347539264295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-22653762140342251312008-02-27T08:28:00.000+00:002008-02-27T08:28:00.000+00:00Things must be bad for the Libbies to walk-out of ...Things must be bad for the Libbies to walk-out of the chamber- WITHOUT their handbags( Free-trade, of course)! They wouldn't be any good in panto.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-30465677108014738272008-02-27T08:10:00.000+00:002008-02-27T08:10:00.000+00:00Oooh, temper, temper Iain! I think you've let your...Oooh, temper, temper Iain! I think you've let yourself get rather carried away... after all, as the TV footage shows rather more than just a "few" Liberal Democrat MPs walking out.<BR/><BR/>Your account doesn't really match up with what actually happened does it?<BR/><BR/>Not your finest moment of reportage Iain :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-44169555395100046972008-02-27T07:08:00.000+00:002008-02-27T07:08:00.000+00:00Norman Baker should be under pressure about his l...Norman Baker should be under pressure about his lies locally . He slipped out the news that he had "decided" , that the Treaty was so different that he did not need to stand by the promise he gave . Then, the many people who find this position disgraceful find themselves censored by his friends in the truly dreadful rag the Sussex Express whose proprietors ought to sack the fools in situ forthwith. What we have is a load of public sector employees on good money plus University people and arty types and thats the Liberal majority. Many of them are concerned about local issues though and the news recently that they have no say in , for example , the new local incinerator , thanks to EU guidelines has shown what this dictatorship of bureaucrats really means . Recently there was a fatuous squabble in the district Coucil which is presumably being organised nationally by the Libs who know they are rightly vulnerable having proved themselves to be mendacious maggots . This was along the same lines as the Parliamentary spat<BR/>Norman Baker`s tactic here is to use his friends in the local media to keep the entire subject quiet and I expect that is why he did not want to be seen storming out out anywhere . My point is that given the Liberals have clearly planed not only a Parliamentary but a Council level impasse it is quite implausible that they had not planned what their next actions would be.<BR/>I am vastly impressed by Norfolk Blogger who shows that there is at least something more to the Lib Dems than their dirty campaigning lies and opportunism. I feel that there are some decent Liberals and they have been badly let down by the leadership who , if the truth be known , are angling for a power sharing deal with Brown and that’s what this is really about , ( and the Clegg Euro nut tendency)<BR/><BR/>Otherwise they would have dropped this . Now Brown owes themNewmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-34187639504364922132008-02-27T05:27:00.000+00:002008-02-27T05:27:00.000+00:00Actually, although this was a futile demonstration...Actually, although this was a futile demonstration by the LibDems, the idea that EU membership should be discussed very seriously is certainly not the hot-potato for Tories that it once was. I would rather suggest that the eternally rolled out waffle about percentage UK trade with the EU would be no different if we returned to a simple trade pact and emptied out the extras which have done the UK (and other members too!) so much damage. The mass immigration from the former East European states could have been foreseen by a raving idiot, but not the EU and particularly this Labour Government. What has the EU given us? - a disasterous common agricultural policy, open borders, interference by a self serving organisation ruled by theorists experimenting with our lives and providing a socialist retirement home for failed politicians. An organisation with out-of-control finances that can never achieve a satisfactory audit and the people of Europe are forced to finance it. Quite simply, it is a disaster which should have been shut down years ago. What possible benefit is there to the UK in supporting the welfare of hundreds of thousands of economic migrant families. Where have the 1.2Million homes come from during the last 4 years and who has financed them? Who has paid for the health care, benefits and schooling? Why do politicians keep telling us that "without immigrants we would not have been so successful during the last 10 years". Total rubbish! The costs of this immigration far outweigh any benefits, has stagnated the pay of the masses in favour of the cheap immigrant and put out of work and onto the dole, thousands of our own citizens who cannot see any future. No wonder the youth of today are so frustrated and 'feral'. Do not forget also the import of the criminal classes causing mayhem on our streets and straining our police service to its limits.<BR/><BR/>All of this needs to be focused and discussed openly. Yes, there should be a referendum regarding in, or out, and it is imperative that we regain complete control of our borders and rid ourselves of the freeloaders as quickly as possible. We should not grant citizenship to anyone after just 3 years residence and extend the period to 10 years reliant on a continuous work history and a totally clean criminal record.Vienna Woodshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03957194230173008975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-89475605581604752942008-02-27T03:23:00.000+00:002008-02-27T03:23:00.000+00:00If that was a stunt I wish there were more of them...If that was a stunt I wish there were more of them.<BR/>Our (stupidly)elected leaders are selling us out to a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. Our representatives (ROTFFL)are ratifying the handover without even having our agreement.<BR/>ANY demonstration, contrived or not, which keeps this monstrous betrayal in the public awareness is 100% fine by me.<BR/>So the Deputy Speaker was rudely ignored. Hard fart!<BR/>Parliament is ignoring the entire nation....<BR/>Which is the greater insult...the greater evil?...and, inevitably, should Iain & his pals remain comatose, the greater tragedy for this once-great country.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-68109375909604159922008-02-27T01:22:00.000+00:002008-02-27T01:22:00.000+00:00Earth quakeEarth quakeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-80021071912259985552008-02-27T00:38:00.000+00:002008-02-27T00:38:00.000+00:00ALL MPs should boycott the next vote on the farce ...ALL MPs should boycott the next vote on the farce that's being promoted as "debate" on the Lisbon Treaty. It is an utter disgrace what Brown is doing and if MPs want to have a chance of remaining relevant in the future they should strongly protest this dictatorial abuse of the parliamentary system.<BR/><BR/>But they won't; as the guy said in his recent book, they're all members of the new political class whose self perpetuation is the highest priority.Yak40https://www.blogger.com/profile/10391635243252561168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-79761199676128440362008-02-27T00:21:00.000+00:002008-02-27T00:21:00.000+00:00If anyone can actually prove that this walk out wa...If anyone can actually prove that this walk out was pre planned then the Lib Dem's should be severely censured (not entirely sure by whom - ideally their constituents)!<BR/><BR/>It shows absolutely contempt for parliament and in particular the Deputy Speaker.<BR/><BR/>Obviously people can get hot under the colar in the heat of the argument, and that is almost healthy in a democracy, but to stomp out to prove a point is absolutely scandalous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-80980499117402797792008-02-27T00:10:00.000+00:002008-02-27T00:10:00.000+00:00Great get the EU back on the agenda.Caulson will b...Great get the EU back on the agenda.<BR/><BR/>Caulson will be having a heart attackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-81603005697916437332008-02-26T23:52:00.000+00:002008-02-26T23:52:00.000+00:00I still think that my earlier comment of "tit" is ...I still think that my earlier comment of "tit" is a more succinct summary of Ed Davey's behaviour.<BR/><BR/>I also think that I deserve a prize, Iain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com