tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post3285841515195945839..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: UKIP Goes to Court Over TV DebateIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-10832437713972768282010-04-29T15:16:07.232+01:002010-04-29T15:16:07.232+01:00Neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are standing every...Neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are standing every seat, only the Tories are standing in every seat in the UKKilsallyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12355423947535095842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-15489015634934809642010-04-28T12:36:15.537+01:002010-04-28T12:36:15.537+01:00"Bent over backwards"
Yeah right. Tell ..."Bent over backwards"<br /><br />Yeah right. Tell Chris Mounsey.OldSlaughterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04807170326475262427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63086309250345131912010-04-28T11:42:34.491+01:002010-04-28T11:42:34.491+01:00A 4th podium in all the debates would be overdoing...A 4th podium in all the debates would be overdoing it but at least 1 appearance, or a 4th debate, or them being given half an hour (1/3rd of the debate time) to speak unopposed would be fair. Something similar should apply in Scotland & wales though such an extra debate need not be broadcast in England. <br /><br />I do not share your view that the party that came second in the only election we have where people's choices are not constrained has been getting proportionate coverage. But then I have never accused the BBC of impartiality.neil craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09157898238945726349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-2948395446847724402010-04-28T08:35:52.112+01:002010-04-28T08:35:52.112+01:00All Ukip and Salmond are doing is costing TV licen...All Ukip and Salmond are doing is costing TV license payers money, since the BBC is forced to defend these absurd actions at our expense.DespairingLiberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02903904463236135611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-29680649085714119152010-04-28T01:20:33.644+01:002010-04-28T01:20:33.644+01:00Well, at least one Ukip candidate is getting some ...Well, at least one Ukip candidate is getting some exposure on new media (even if the BiasedBullCorporation won't go near them), because Sound and Fury is <a href="http://bit.ly/ajdSHH" rel="nofollow">reporting from Cambridge</a>, with answers from Ukip's Peter Burkinshaw, and an interview with independent candidate (and famous blogger) Old Holborn. (The Tory PPC Nick Hillman has been asked questions by email, but S&F is still waiting for an answer)<br />http://bit.ly/ajdSHH ( http://dev-null.chu.cam.ac.uk/htm/soundandfury/10-04-27-ukip_old_holborn_and_cam.htm )Sound and Furyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11301148226269705374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-74140595539435511292010-04-27T23:59:54.859+01:002010-04-27T23:59:54.859+01:00But nobody has Parliamentary seats (since there...But nobody has Parliamentary seats (since there's no Parliament), nobody is contesting every seat, and if the current polls are accurate than the most likely outcome is that NONE of the debate participants are going to be the next Prime Minister. (The most likely next PM if the polls are accurate looks like being Alan Johnson.)<br /><br />So that's an argument built on a lot of very unstable sand indeed. Poor show.RevStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03915111503712807257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-35660022774708947992010-04-27T23:46:00.510+01:002010-04-27T23:46:00.510+01:00No, my argument is that it is a Prime Ministerial ...No, my argument is that it is a Prime Ministerial debate between leaders of parties who have parliamentary seats throughout Britain. <br /><br />Devolution means that SC, WA and NI can have their own debates.<br /><br />I agree in a Euro election, UKIP should be in a debate - and the Greens.<br /><br />You are clutching at straws now, so let;s end it here.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-65882712763418220462010-04-27T23:40:18.652+01:002010-04-27T23:40:18.652+01:00"Glad you concede my point about the Tories. ..."Glad you concede my point about the Tories. Libs and Lab are contesting 633 seats. They both have MPs. UKIP are contesting 560. They don't."<br /><br />I don't concede anything about the Tories - are the UUP candidates members of the Conservative Party, or not? If not, then they're not Tories and the Conservatives are not contesting those seats.<br /><br />As for your other point, I hate to have to correct you, but NOBODY has any seats at the moment. Parliament has been dissolved, and there are no MPs. So your argument appears to boil down to "Labour and the Lib Dems are contesting about 13% more seats than UKIP, so they should be on the debates and UKIP shouldn't."<br /><br />Which is, y'know, pretty weak.<br /><br />From your reputation I was hoping for a rather higher intellectual standard than this.RevStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03915111503712807257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-64070403341584333482010-04-27T23:32:46.555+01:002010-04-27T23:32:46.555+01:00Iain Dale said:
Libs and Lab are contesting 633 s...<i>Iain Dale said:<br /><br />Libs and Lab are contesting 633 seats. They both have MPs. UKIP are contesting 560. They don't.</i><br /><br />Before I call it a night, and with due apologies for pedantry, no party has an MP since parliament was dissolved.<br /><br />The only reason I mention this is that the BBC is supposed to take account of <i>"levels of past and current electoral support"</i> when deciding how much coverage each party should be afforded.<br /><br />Their capacity to judge past levels of support I can accept, but surely the whole point of the election is to determine current levels of electoral support!<br /><br />If the Beeb already has the answer why don't they just tell us and save everyone a lot of time, money and effort?! They're halfway there by giving us all a shortlist of 3 parties to choose from I suppose.forfar-loonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03825964478078065335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-68728295459602160162010-04-27T23:30:46.858+01:002010-04-27T23:30:46.858+01:00So, let me get this right Iain….. Any party who ca...So, let me get this right Iain….. Any party who can successfully front all but 90 (14%) of available seats in a General Election is, by your definition, unworthy to be part of a debate funded (BBC) by the electorate. Your UUP/Conservative response to Northern Ireland in the same context is pathetic. Im a fan of this blog, but the more i read during the run up to the big day the more i question your judgement and, by extension, Cameron’s Tories in this democracy. Our democracy.The electorates democracy.No Societyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14164534436281835748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19157862209595352282010-04-27T23:06:50.065+01:002010-04-27T23:06:50.065+01:00Iain Dale said...
Now you're just being despe...<i>Iain Dale said...<br /><br />Now you're just being desperately pathetic.</i><br /><br />Not sure if that was directed at my comment or not. If not I'd be interested in your views, but if so...<br /><br />Surely it's reasonable to highlight that these debates don't have clear criteria for inclusion.<br /><br />Who exactly has taken the decision as to who should be included in the debates? And from where do they derive this new-found authority? What checks and balances are in place to mitigate the risk of unjust decisions being made? It all seems rather opaque to me.<br /><br />All of this is especially important in light of the dramatic impact the debates appear to be having on voting intentions. There is the small matter of electoral law at stake here, and we chip away at that at our peril.<br /><br />You appear to agree with the decisions thus far Iain, as is your right. But perhaps you won't next time round. What recourse will you have then? The doddery old UK constitution is in danger of having it's zimmer frame pulled away.forfar-loonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03825964478078065335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-14763212906962465022010-04-27T22:53:00.139+01:002010-04-27T22:53:00.139+01:00The first two of these contests, on ITV and Sky, h...The first two of these contests, on ITV and Sky, have totally dominated the campaign. As Alex Salmond said at the weekend, these debates have been the campaign.<br /><br />And for Scotland not to be properly included in them is a democratic disgrace.<br /><br />The SNP is the party of government in Scotland, in charge of the NHS, education, law and order and many other of the everyday issues that people base their votes on – and that reason alone should be enough to justify inclusion in the debates.<br /><br />But this is about much more than any one political party. Because, while ITV and Sky were equally wrong not to have proper representation in their debates, the BBC has an extra special responsibility in this regard.<br /><br />They are supposed to be Scotland’s national broadcaster – and millions of Scots are asked to pay a licence fee to the Corporation every year.<br /><br />That licence fee should guarantee that Scotland and Scottish viewers are treated fairly, not as second-class citizens.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-65167232647596290732010-04-27T22:46:12.625+01:002010-04-27T22:46:12.625+01:00557 UKIP candidates are standing. No mean feat for...557 UKIP candidates are standing. No mean feat for a so-called 'minority party'!ukipwebmasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12240335641832778726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-85855933644716169792010-04-27T22:45:24.981+01:002010-04-27T22:45:24.981+01:00Glad you concede my point about the Tories. Libs a...Glad you concede my point about the Tories. Libs and Lab are contesting 633 seats. They both have MPs. UKIP are contesting 560. They don't.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-62555948231424455862010-04-27T22:41:14.603+01:002010-04-27T22:41:14.603+01:00"Now you're just being desperately pathet..."Now you're just being desperately pathetic."<br /><br />Come on, Iain. Resorting to name-calling in lieu of an argument is what's "pathetic". Do you have an answer to the points raised? Labour and the Lib Dems aren't contesting every seat, so why do they get to be in the debate when that's your justification for excluding the others?RevStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03915111503712807257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-23718979231552397662010-04-27T22:34:50.833+01:002010-04-27T22:34:50.833+01:00just do not believe that UKIP deserves a fourth po...<i>just do not believe that UKIP deserves a fourth podium on Thursday, and I suspect the courts will agree.</i><br /><br />I. however, think UKIP and perhaps some of the other small parties should have been given some leader debate time. God knows, there was enough time available. Some of the over-long 'analysis' by journalists could have been curtailed.Martin Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04148241391183658112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-50446897987426695532010-04-27T22:32:56.044+01:002010-04-27T22:32:56.044+01:00More to the point- the existence of a "leader...More to the point- the existence of a "leaders debate" pretty well proves the irrelevance of members of Parliament- they just form an electoral college to decide who will wield Her Majesty's powers.<br />Why not just elect a dictator and be done with it:- and if we did that any elected Parliament might actually do what used to be it's job and hold the government to account.Pathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01076229612915226755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-74013481788101188832010-04-27T22:27:28.734+01:002010-04-27T22:27:28.734+01:00The debates have so far been deadly boring. And I ...The debates have so far been deadly boring. And I would like to point out that it is not Clegg's policies that are boosting the libdems but his looks. I would like to see UKIP in the debates and the BNP and the Greens but not the SNP as they are only relevant to Scotland. Of course the smaller parties will never be allowed to participate in politics on an equal footing.happinesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374148305020402076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-73720335351503814762010-04-27T22:16:40.763+01:002010-04-27T22:16:40.763+01:00If UKIP were on the debate at least there would be...If UKIP were on the debate at least there would be a perceptable difference and something to debate about instead of posing and discussing a one percent difference in spending cuts, and making silly quips about sqabbling children. The EU problem will be completely overlooked by the current trio.Twighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16698620636313191152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-47604348336110323562010-04-27T22:11:26.594+01:002010-04-27T22:11:26.594+01:00Now you're just being desperately pathetic.Now you're just being desperately pathetic.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53187490692183146212010-04-27T22:07:28.833+01:002010-04-27T22:07:28.833+01:00Iain Dale said:
You are wrong. The Conservatives ...<i>Iain Dale said:<br /><br />You are wrong. The Conservatives are contesting every seat in Northern Ireland as part of their alliance with the UUP. If you don't believe me, have a look at all the Tory Vote for Change posters going up there.</i><br /><br />By that rationale Iain surely the UUP are contesting every seat in the UK through their alliance with the Tories? Do they then deserve a place in the debates?<br /><br />And if a UK-wide "alliance" is to be the new criterion (strangely not mentioned anywhere else as yet, but then shifting goalposts have characterised the justification for these "debates") I wonder whether we'll be seeing all kinds of weird and wonderful combinations next time round...e.g. SNP + Greens (England & Wales variety) + whichever NI party hasn't been taken yet. Would other such marriages of convenience then qualify for inclusion?<br /><br />If you and your party really meant <i>"Vote for Change"</i> you wouldn't be reducing the opportunity for the electorate to hear the full spectrum of political opinion.forfar-loonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03825964478078065335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-65705777905396980972010-04-27T22:07:28.834+01:002010-04-27T22:07:28.834+01:00Iain - since we don't elect Prime Ministers un...Iain - since we don't elect Prime Ministers under our system, these debates can only be seen as election broadcasts and should be treated as such. We have the SNP in Government in Scotland and the party has candidates for Westminster in every Scottish constituency. I have views on Westminster's management of the economy, worries about our troops in Afghanistan, our overall defence strategy and of course as anyone else in the UK big concerns about the major spending cuts coming down the line Why am I not allowed to hear the SNP leader's views argued out in a debate alongside the other party leaders?Elizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05859145675038950329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78762760402489792112010-04-27T21:22:16.587+01:002010-04-27T21:22:16.587+01:00It's probably too late for this GE's debat...It's probably too late for this GE's debates.<br /><br />But looking forward to the next GE (anyone want to bet me a tenner that it won't also be in 2010?), and if debates continue (moot point), I think the format needs to change.<br /><br />As with this GE, each debate should have a theme - Economy, Foreign Affairs, Constitution, etc). But for each debate, the main Party Leaders should be joined by 2 others, representing polarised views. Thus, the Greens, BNP, UKIP, SNP or Plaid, English Democrats etc would each get one chance to put across their views, and how they differ from the major parties on their main platform. It would require planning, but that could be sorted. If you run out of non-mainstream polarised views, there are always independents.<br /><br />Probably going to find no favour with the established parties, but hey - the % of the electorate who don't vote for the three main national parties need a shout as well.<br /><br />Also, why not publish a threshold vote of the last GE to guarantee a podium for all of the Leaders' debates? 15%?Thorpehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07937013013431307255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-88489677678008680972010-04-27T21:15:22.070+01:002010-04-27T21:15:22.070+01:00Sympathy for Lord Pearson that the pro-EU candidat...Sympathy for Lord Pearson that the pro-EU candidate is making all the running, but if UKIP were serious about their Westminster campaign they should have addressed the TV debate issue very much earlier. Even though the debates were agreed only recently, they were always a possibility. UKIP members might even have considered electing a more televisual leader. Next election (6 months?) all parties will need to have worked out a deal with the broadcasters. At this late hour, Lord P's objections seem like sour grapes.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16971178866146219045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-38361263880908901602010-04-27T21:13:51.540+01:002010-04-27T21:13:51.540+01:00Tory candidate Philip Lardner suspended over gay c...<a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7615125/Tory-candidate-Philip-Lardner-suspended-over-gay-comments.html" rel="nofollow">Tory candidate Philip Lardner suspended over gay comments</a><br /><br />Looks like you dont have a full house in Scotland now we'll have to think about who is allowed in any debates up here under your rules.<br /><br />Mr Mundell will be relieved!cynicalHighlanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034325908473006163noreply@blogger.com