tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post3276138820777874169..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Is It Really a NATIONAL Health Service?Iain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-61782696825335955272010-01-21T13:49:13.667+00:002010-01-21T13:49:13.667+00:00D'oh, sorry Salmondnet.
Great link tho'D'oh, sorry Salmondnet.<br /><br />Great link tho'Terry Heathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08613235351379818011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-27214690037260598592010-01-21T13:09:37.612+00:002010-01-21T13:09:37.612+00:00Terry Heath. You are jumping to (erroneous)conclus...Terry Heath. You are jumping to (erroneous)conclusions. I am not on the receiving end and entirely agree with you. That is why I posted the link.Salmondnethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04135160187810480222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-11594857985766909182010-01-21T07:45:01.365+00:002010-01-21T07:45:01.365+00:00An excellent link, thank you very much, you should...An excellent link, thank you very much, you should read it too.<br /><br />It clearly states that England is subsidising Scotland... <br /><i>”...such spending gaps are impossible to justify to English taxpayers. They ask why they should subsidise higher Scottish, Welsh, and Irish spending?”</i><br /><br />It takes into account supposed “Scottish Oil”…<br /><i>”North Sea revenues would not have funded the whole of Scotland’s additional public spending. The cumulative total over the whole period is a Scottish deficit of £26 billion.”</i><br /><br />Interestingly, this is written before the English taxpayer had to bail out two Scottish Banks, so the situation is even worse than is painted here.<br /><br />Finally it concludes…<br /> <i>”Clearly nobody wants to “upset the Scots”, but even those on the receiving end of the largesse aren’t always happy.”</i> <b>…that’ll be you.</b>Terry Heathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08613235351379818011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-79381690263633040292010-01-20T19:45:04.219+00:002010-01-20T19:45:04.219+00:00John Bull: The Taxpayers Alliance disagrees: http:...John Bull: The Taxpayers Alliance disagrees: http://tpa.typepad.com/home/files/unequal_shares_the_barnett_formula.pdfSalmondnethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04135160187810480222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-71319628404305635742010-01-20T15:07:59.083+00:002010-01-20T15:07:59.083+00:00”Scotland subsidizes England/ Britain …The majorit...<i>”Scotland subsidizes England/ Britain …The majority of the money raised around the UK is spend in England (particularly the South East). If the Scots leave the Union, Britain will be in the toilet…”</i><br /><br /><b>LOL</b>Terry Heathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08613235351379818011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63236855771320966002010-01-20T10:01:22.861+00:002010-01-20T10:01:22.861+00:00You're all overlooking Scotland’s real purpose...You're all overlooking Scotland’s real purpose, which is to maintain the myth of British world power, and to keep London in the style to which it is accustomed... <br /><br />Scotland subsidizes England/ Britain - just because Westminster says that the Scots get more per head of population doesn't mean it's true. It's just to make the Scots think that, so they won't go for Independence... <br /><br />Barnett is worked out on a small sliver of the pie. The majority of the money raised around the UK is spend in England (particularly the South East). If the Scots leave the Union, Britain will be in the toilet - no more Empire-centric mentality...<br /><br />This is a good read: http://tinyurl.com/ya5rm9kJohn Bullhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06704754864956379625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-50600468870926048092010-01-20T04:03:20.463+00:002010-01-20T04:03:20.463+00:00Hafod said “” I defy anyone to claim that the fund...Hafod said “<i>” I defy anyone to claim that the funding formula under Barnett favours Wales.”</i><br /><br />I’ll defy you.<br /><br />According to HM Treasury* Wales gets 13% more money, per head in real terms. Not as much as N. Ireland’s 30%, or the Prime Minister’s Scotland 21%.... but Barnett favours Wales in comparison to England.<br /><br />England get the Brown end of the stick, <b>again, as usual!</b><br /><br />* http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/pespub_pesa08.htm<br />Chapter 8, Figure 9.4 “Total identifiable expenditure on services by country and region per head in real terms(1), 2002–03 to 2007–08”Terry Heathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08613235351379818011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-16766500481088592202010-01-20T03:47:28.327+00:002010-01-20T03:47:28.327+00:00Someone said "This is essentially a question ...Someone said <i>"This is essentially a question of localised decision making against centralised control. </i><br /><br />No it's not. It is about the Barnett Formula giving 20% more money to the UK's most wealthy nation, who in turn spend 25% more on Health than is spent in England.<br /><br />Meanwhile in England, the PM and Chancellor are not only unaccountable to a single voter, when it comes to the English NHS: they have also signed a solemn oath to hold Scotland's interests "paramount" in all their "actions and deeds".<br /><br />Why is this not a scandal, and why won't the Tories do anything about it?Terry Heathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08613235351379818011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-14777096246834966922010-01-19T22:19:09.924+00:002010-01-19T22:19:09.924+00:00in reply
I don't think the Barnett formula is...in reply<br /><br />I don't think the Barnett formula is fair or works today. It should be flexible to adjust for population changes and means tested. I don't agree that Scottish MP's should vote on English health matters(west lothian Q)<br /><br />I do think that Iain's post was sensationalist in stirring these two (very important) factors by the wording of his post. This is essentially a question of localised decision making against centralised control. <br /><br />My heart say local, but my head keeps coming up with these injustices so says central.<br /><br />Perhaps we should introduce ELECTED cheif executives for each Primary Care Trust to give local accountability. Elections on the same day as the Polive Commanders?Jason Lloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08365804178866667771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-48098754609744070242010-01-19T22:03:06.881+00:002010-01-19T22:03:06.881+00:00England will only be free of these injustices when...England will only be free of these injustices when it is free of the UK.<br /><br />http://independentengland.blogspot.com/Independent Englandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00259685149221743106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-40054057356152188212010-01-19T19:50:49.593+00:002010-01-19T19:50:49.593+00:00Iain, RoActemra is available in England - it is a ...Iain, RoActemra is available in England - it is a licensed medicine. It's just that the NHS in England will not pay for it and why? Because it is far too expensive for the good that it does. Why do you never turn your fire on the real reason for this? If Roche want it to be used in England and so boost their profits they know perfectly well what to do - reduce the price to one that is acceptable.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07129358949544125162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-30227480994245866582010-01-19T15:18:59.101+00:002010-01-19T15:18:59.101+00:00Welsh school pupils get, per head, £500 per annum,...Welsh school pupils get, per head, £500 per annum, less spent on them than their English counterparts. Barnett institutionalises the differential, no matter what the Welsh Assembly Government wants to do.<br /> I defy anyone to claim that the funding formula under Barnett favours Wales.hafodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14421821230566387790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-21933586992439117262010-01-19T15:08:22.781+00:002010-01-19T15:08:22.781+00:00@ hafod
The article seems to be saying that the p...@ hafod<br /><br />The article seems to be saying that the patient is being denied payment for accommodation, not the medicines.<br /><br />There was a similar case reported on a particular deceitful Channel4 documentary a couple of years ago about a cancer patient in Wales being deied treatment available just across the border in England. <br /><br />However, this treatment was provided only in one English Primary Care Trust which just happened to border the Welsh county this particular patient lived in. If the PCT had been in Lincolnshire it would have been a non-story. However, Channel4 reported the exception that proved the rule in an effort to hide the international, intra-UK healthcare lottery.<br /><br />The Welsh are whining that Welsh patients are being denied treatment in England because the Welsh Health Service has failed to pay for treatment of previous patients. They are also whining that they are not getting to the top of the (supposedly) shorter waiting lists. So, it would appear that the Welsh want to get the benefits of shorter waiting lists and to receive treatment paid for by the English, not only via the Barnett Formula, but also out of their own Health Service's budgets.<br /><br />Devolution has shown that the "fairness" Gordon Brown bangs on about is not a British characteristic, but an English one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-597632628412267532010-01-19T15:04:30.108+00:002010-01-19T15:04:30.108+00:00Abortion and Northern Ireland. Women there must pa...Abortion and Northern Ireland. Women there must pay for an abortion under the NHS while still paying National Insurance.Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12130382118778527084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-29097798346460371702010-01-19T14:46:39.915+00:002010-01-19T14:46:39.915+00:00@ graeme
With all due respect it is you who doesn...@ graeme<br /><br />With all due respect it is you who doesn't get it.<br /><br />Either we are in a Union or we are not. Instead of a Scottish Parliament the Scots should have been presented with a referendum on Scottish Regions, Highlands, Lowlands and Islands for example.<br /><br />Then they could have had regional Assemblies, then Regional Grand Committees foisted on them even though they voted against such bodies.<br /><br />Scottish public services, including healthcare, could have been regionalised.<br /><br />Pre-devolution we were all in the same boat. It is highly improbable that Thatcher would have permitted cancer drugs to be denied the Scots while available to the English. It is even more improbable that she would have even contemplated Scotttish students being the only ones in the whole of the EU to pay top-up fees when attending English Universities. However, we English are expected to accept the reverse "for the sake of the Union".<br /><br />Before you write "what about the poll tax?" phone up Malcolm Rifkind to find out the truth about why it was introduced in Scotland first.<br /><br />The truth is, what could have been a fair tax, if introduced gradually as planned, was completely screwed up by Scottish politicians pleading for it to be rushed in to stave off a hike in Scottish rates.<br /><br />The Tories won't do as well as they anticipate in England because they say nothing about the inequities the English endure. As has been pointed out Dave (I've got lots of Scottish blood in my veins) Cameron could not even bring himself to mention England in a document dealing only with England.<br /><br />Every English person either is, or knows someone, paying top-up fees, who has sold their home to pay for social care, who has been denied cancer drugs, etc etc. After ten years such things are impossible to hide. Yet Cameron and the rest of the Tories, when lifting up their heads from the expenses claims, still bang on about "our country" "the NHS" "the education system". This no longer works.<br /><br />They will pay at the ballot box because people will vote for anyone, but the three main parties.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-75544386371930780682010-01-19T14:34:38.191+00:002010-01-19T14:34:38.191+00:00Dear Boothroyd - so factual, so authoritative, so ...Dear Boothroyd - so factual, so authoritative, so obsessive and...<br /><br />so utterly out of context. He is talking about 74,000 people, out of a population of 60 million.<br /><br />(http://www.dispensingdoctor.org/content.php?id=1263)<br /><br />Poor Scottish people already get free prescriptions. So cancer patients who fall below a certain threshold not pay. Indeed, very few do pay, those that remain are at the mercy of other parties:<br /><br />"We remain opposed to any further moves to reduce prescription charges for the 7 per cent that still attract any cost." (Annabel Goldie) <br /><br />The move to abolishing charges altogether in Scotland was proposed at the beginning of the administration has been perpetually blocked by the Tories and other parties. The SNP have already reduced charges to all, and have continued to provide free eye tests.<br /><br />The cancer issue is a one-off, and is riddled with caveats, largely dependendent on NICE and local health authorities to include the treatment under the exemption. It has only been available since last April.<br /><br />On the whole, Scottish patients have less to pay overall.<br /><br />Altogether, the muddled thinking over this issue is a paradigm of how the opposition parties oppose good ideas on principle, simply because they had not thought of them.<br /><br />It is also an example of how England will be left behind, a third world country with an impoverished working class.<br /><br />Here is a good source of the information:<br /><br />http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/latestnews/Prescription-price-to-fall-again.4958469.jpWrinkled Weaselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05291551539649118631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-26806123498914999872010-01-19T14:21:35.848+00:002010-01-19T14:21:35.848+00:00It's hardly a health service in the first plac...It's hardly a health service in the first place.bnzsshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05864389764701176671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-4900964802538346932010-01-19T14:02:51.502+00:002010-01-19T14:02:51.502+00:00David Boothroyd said...
If you're in England ...David Boothroyd said... <br /><i>If you're in England and you're sadly diagnosed with cancer, you get free prescriptions. If you're in Scotland and you're sadly diagnosed with cancer, you are not exempt from paying for prescription charges.</i><br /><br />You are on very dodgy ground there. About 15 cancer drugs are available to Scots that are denied to the English. So it is pain-killers that English cancer patients get for free, not cancer drugs. Scots pay lower prescription charges than the English, which will eventually move to zero, as in Wales.<br /><br />Add to that the bowel cancer screening programme available to Scots aged 50-74, but to the English aged 60-69 as well as other significant benefits in other cancer screening, I think it is fair to say the Scots come off far better than the English regarding cancer healthcare.Stephen Gashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03831278223994308192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-22219275944182095612010-01-19T13:52:20.762+00:002010-01-19T13:52:20.762+00:00The Tories should be much further ahead in the pol...The Tories should be much further ahead in the polls than they are. They are not further ahead because of Cameron's pathetic leadership and his failure to address the disadvantages heaped upon the English compared to his beloved Scots. <br /><br />Instead he prefers wasting valuable time during PMQs repeating the same old (but failed) tactic of point-scoring against Brown by repeatedly banging on about boom and bust.<br /><br />I want to hear more questions from the Tories about the virtual apartheid perpetrated against the English at all levels, not only in healthcare. Afterall, the Tories would not exist in Westminster if it were not for English votes.<br /><br />Instead Cameron goes up to Scotland promising more powers for the Scottish Parliament. Also, we see a plethora of Scottish Tory candidates in England who would not have a prayer of winning in their own country.<br /><br />I'll not be voting for the Scot the Tories have presented me with because the Tories have systematically failed the English at every given opportunity since devolution.<br /><br />Cameron has even backed two-year degrees in England, but has not suggested a reduction in the four-year degrees in Scotland. So we are to see our degrees devalued while the bonnie Scots continue to have theirs maintained through English taxpayers' largesse.<br /><br />Should the Tories get in at the next general election and Gordon Brown keeps his seat in Scotland, Brown will still have a say on the English Health Service by voting at the third stage of any Bill pertaining to it.<br /><br />No thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-51167892490884603842010-01-19T12:38:59.126+00:002010-01-19T12:38:59.126+00:00"Is it really a national health service ?&quo..."Is it really a national health service ?"<br /><br />Rather surprised you are even asking this Iain. Perhaps you have been too closely locked up in the remote fastnesses of Tory Central. Time to come out and connect with English reality.<br />Even the Telegraph has belatedly cottoned on to this- see today's front page.<br /><br />Despite dogged Tory attempts to deny England exists<br /> (all we ever get Britain, Britain, bloody Britain-----they hate even saying the word England, see the recent announcement on the English NHS which tried to kid everyone it was about Cameron's "Bri'ain". Doubtless the dozy Tory MP's fell for it and - some of- their support workers) <br /><br />-England does in fact exist and has its own NHS now totally separate from the other three NHS's of Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland. Health has been a devolved subject since the passage of the Scotland Act 1998. The NHS's of those countries are almost completely under the control of their respective parliaments and assemblies.<br /><br />You have probably registered that there is massive and semi secret discrimination in funding perhead perannum by the British government on a bald national basis(Barnet rules). There is no attempt to justify this on a basis of need and never has been. Just straightforward discrimination against the English and thats it.Typically British. <br /><br />ie Scotland gets at least £1450 perhead perannum more from the British government than the english do and this incldes health.<br /><br />(completely contrary to the mores of the 0UN Charter of which the British government is a signatory )<br /><br />It is not only funding . Organisation of health is now very differnt in England than in Wales and Scotland. In England there are PCT's and Primary Care Groups . Not so elsewhere.<br /><br />NICE, by the way used to apply to England and Wales, now mainly only to England.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06521415631472444590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19097745239292595162010-01-19T12:38:41.201+00:002010-01-19T12:38:41.201+00:00OT - It appears that McBruin's new policy of b...OT - It appears that McBruin's new policy of being nice to the middle classes is only until the election.<br /><br />HMRC are recruiting:-<br /><br />http://www.tendersdirect.co.uk/Ourservice/TenderView.aspx?ID=%20000000002632258<br /><br />Big rise in Council Tax anyone?Number 7https://www.blogger.com/profile/02436083183388382494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-30880258904429479612010-01-19T12:32:02.244+00:002010-01-19T12:32:02.244+00:00There are plenty of areas in which the Welsh healt...There are plenty of areas in which the Welsh health service is second class to the English service.<br /><br />Our stroke care is shocking, with far less specialist units than in England. <br /><br />Ambulance waiting times are very high in some areas, and that doesn't just mean rural areas.<br /><br />You can't get three cycles of IVF anywhere on the NHS in Wales, where in some parts of England you can.<br /><br />There are over £200 million 'high and serious risk' repairs needed to our hospitals, because the government hate using private cash.<br /><br />But on the other hand, we have free prescriptions and free parking. Both of which are bloody awful ideas and a waste of money.<br /><br />There have been good decisions, such as not spending nearly as much money on a wasteful IT system.<br /><br />The point is, there are plenty of areas where England is better than Wales, and some where Wales is better than England. That is the point of devolution. Our government has taken different decisions and has therefore achieved different results, some I agree with, some I don't.<br /><br />The problem is that the English media only ever choose to highlight those things which are better in Wales, and rarely will the tabloids present a balanced debate along the lines of "In England, you pay £7 for anti-biotics, but you're more likely to survive a stroke".<br /><br />There needs to be some form of responsibility from the media here, who just seem hellbent on convincing people who live in England that they are victims of some giant conspiracy. It's anything but!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-72852966720054337392010-01-19T12:12:16.715+00:002010-01-19T12:12:16.715+00:00Graeme
Local budgets? The labour govt have cons...Graeme<br /><br />Local budgets? The labour govt have consistently reduced the budget for my local NHS in Oxfordshire (no doubt because there are no marginals where I live)<br /><br />So my budget is as local as the one in Glasgow or Dundee. Control of Dundee's budget has been given to a devolved parliament, which is in turn subsidised by English taxpayers.<br /><br />Nothing intrinsically local there. If Scotland want to have different healthcare, then let them pay for it. Devolution is a half baked sham.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-3283408395853121302010-01-19T11:55:31.140+00:002010-01-19T11:55:31.140+00:00"We never hear examples of drugs which are av...<i>"We never hear examples of drugs which are available in England but not Scotland and/or Wales." <br /></i><br />Had you done an iota of research before posting this, you would know that treatment freely available in England (e.g. http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/4440333.Newport_man_loses_out_in_cancer_postcode_lottery/) are not available in Wales. Rows over breast cancer drug herceptin have also been highlighted in the recent past.<br /> This has caused equal amounts of outrage on the Welsh side of the border but didn't register because (a) it wasn't in the Telegraph and <br />(b) it doesn't fit the narrative of poor old England being discriminated by those beastly Celts.<br /><br />As Graeme has explained, the point of devolution is that some things will be done differently. I thought the Tories were against centralisation!hafodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14421821230566387790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-70873894566356022662010-01-19T11:42:16.580+00:002010-01-19T11:42:16.580+00:00You really have little understanding of what a &qu...You really have little understanding of what a "<i>Nation</i>" is, Mr Dale. Whatever the UK is, it is <b>not</b> one Nation but four - or arguably 3½ - in a single, semi-democratic state.<br /><br />You would be right to rail against NuLab's caghanded asymmetric devolution but rather the complaining about it you would be better either arguing for a democratic English parliament (perhaps best located in the old capital, Winchester) or taking UKIP's view and abolishing it entirely - a <i>courageous</i> view in the light of recent polling that both Scots and Welsh want <b>more</b> powers for Cardiff and Holyrood, if not yet outright independence.Barbazenzerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08618143780102936339noreply@blogger.com