tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post1438737276827874942..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Is £42,000 Enough to Buy Off 42 Day Labour Rebels?Iain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-69650728113080796642008-06-11T20:21:00.000+01:002008-06-11T20:21:00.000+01:00It's up to the Lords to throw this back and hopefu...It's up to the Lords to throw this back and hopefully the government will lose the ping-pong battle. <BR/><BR/>This disgraceful legislation is all about propping up Brown's reputation at the expense of long-held liberties. They will use this law, of course - not against what we would call terrorists, but against vague challenges to the state from organisations like Fathers 4 Justice and anyone with the temerity to protest in public about the Iraq war.<BR/><BR/>There comes a tipping point when civil liberties are irretrievable through normal democratic processes and direct action is required, indeed is a duty. We are getting perilously close. Most of me believes that this government will call an election in just under 2 years and will be smashed at the ballot box. A small part of me thinks that, in their darkest moments, they have fleetingly considered invoking civil contingency legislation to prolong their gtip on power and detaining anyone who objects.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-37400053500518001312008-06-11T16:56:00.000+01:002008-06-11T16:56:00.000+01:00trevorsden You talk a load of codwollope.The poli...trevorsden You talk a load of codwollope.<BR/><BR/>The police have asked for this as they think it will help capture terrorists. <BR/>Now I do not find it diffuclt to see that with, modern computing it is difficult to find all the evidence needed to investigate a terrorist. I am sure this evidence is needed to capture terrorists and stop them, killing people. <BR/><BR/>This will stop innocent people being killed end of story. Grow up how are you better judge of what powers the police need to stop terror scum. <BR/>It is muslims who would suffer if there was another attack. As racism would leave to innocent people suffering. <BR/>Bin Laden does not want this law end of story. Strong laws will prevent them the evil terrorists, killing us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-79698773807014513842008-06-11T15:40:00.000+01:002008-06-11T15:40:00.000+01:00Could someone please explain to me why I should wo...Could someone please explain to me why I should worry about the erosion of civil liberties when I myself am white, speak with a British accent and have never held a controversial opinion in my life?<BR/><BR/>So the government gets to lock up people without charge. It's only going to happen to OTHER PEOPLE, isn't it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-24001836574376171432008-06-11T15:23:00.000+01:002008-06-11T15:23:00.000+01:00The 10p tax furore wasn’t about people paying a ne...The 10p tax furore wasn’t about people paying a new starting rate for income tax; the 42-day pre-charge detention is not about the extension of government powers to hold terrorist suspects without charge. These are synthetic controveries spun from virtual issues. They represent the shadow cast by power in a period of consensus politics. An adversarial political system must have conflict; the heat generated by partisan political conflict has to find a site for its release. And so, like the United States and the Soviet Union in 1970’s and 1980’s, we get proxy wars – conflicts purporting to be about one thing (social justice; the liberty of the individual) which ultimately are about something else altogether: the ugly subterranean currents of power politics.<BR/><BR/>To read these ideas developed at much greater length, link to my blog at:<BR/>http://adammcnestrie.wordpress.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78698107658678659062008-06-11T15:17:00.000+01:002008-06-11T15:17:00.000+01:00Three thousand quid a day ?Poor dears, does that i...Three thousand quid a day ?<BR/><BR/>Poor dears, does that include counselling as well ?<BR/><BR/>What a sick joke.Yak40https://www.blogger.com/profile/10391635243252561168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-29340379569720683642008-06-11T15:11:00.000+01:002008-06-11T15:11:00.000+01:00Lets pretend that the 42 day detention goes into e...Lets pretend that the 42 day detention goes into effect. Now let me look into my crystal balls and see how the £42,000 compo might actually work....<BR/><BR/>"Now, Mr brown skinned person with a funny name and a beard, the special Detention Compensation Commission (Quango costs around £1,500,000 per annum) has considered your claim very carefully over the last 23 months and decided to award you the maximum £42,000. However this is to be reduced by the statutory 50% because you were not fully co-operative with the police and chose to remain silent. It is also reduced by a further £15,000 which is the cost of providing you with a publicly funded lawyer. You also have to pay a further £6,300 towards bed and board for this period. You also have to repay the £1,200 state benefits you were paid because you were not available for work during this period. This means that you actually owe the Detention Compensation Commission £1,500. In view of the circumstances the Detention Compensation Commission is prepared to accept the outstanding money in 4 quarterly repayments, for a special premium interest of 5%. Please let us know if we can be of any further help to you."DiscoveredJoyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05300239909689336895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-81015293582546093702008-06-11T14:55:00.000+01:002008-06-11T14:55:00.000+01:00Typical Labour response to a problem - throw money...Typical Labour response to a problem - throw money at it.<BR/><BR/>42 days is a long time, I know its obvious but that is 6 weeks. 42 days ago we still had a Labour London Mayor! 6 weeks is the length of the school summer holiday. Ask any parent whether that is a long time?<BR/><BR/>I've got a suggestion. For those people who are in favour of 42 days they should give something up for 42 days, something they really like, beer, chocolate, ciggies, the car, meals out, fancy coffee, whatever it is, try and give up something that they really value. Then think about being held for that amount of time, without being told what you are being held for!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-16141399584157247312008-06-11T14:51:00.000+01:002008-06-11T14:51:00.000+01:00"If it stops people have their legs blow off " ......"If it stops people have their legs blow off " ... how will it do that?<BR/><BR/>huh ?<BR/><BR/>How?<BR/><BR/>If police have no idea about a terrorist attack then they cannot stop it. <BR/>If they suspect a terrorist plot they can arrest the terrorists and plot is stopped. <BR/><BR/>If they feel after 28 days they have not enough evidence to make a charge then they release them but the plot is stopped. <BR/><BR/>Is anyone seriously suggesting that if the police have enough evidence to arrest terrorists because they think they are about to launch an attack that they cannot find something to arrest them with after 4 weeks in custody?<BR/><BR/>"If it stops people have their legs blow off" - what a load of tripe.<BR/><BR/>And £3000 if they are not charged ! What about the first 28 days then - why nothing for that. What is the logic in giving people compensation of 14 days and ignoring the first 28 days when they were needlessly held?<BR/><BR/>what a bucking load of tripeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-64722233416583691372008-06-11T14:32:00.000+01:002008-06-11T14:32:00.000+01:00Adam McNestrie said... "To read my ideas at greate...Adam McNestrie said... <BR/><BR/>"To read my ideas at greater length, link to my blog at:<BR/>http://adammcnestrie.wordpress.com/"<BR/><BR/>Using this blog to adverise your own again.<BR/><BR/>Pathetic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-76533871502827502512008-06-11T14:02:00.000+01:002008-06-11T14:02:00.000+01:00Who will be the 42nd comment? It's a magic number!...Who will be the 42nd comment? <A HREF="http://chrispaul-labouroflove.blogspot.com/2008/06/open-sesame-ali-baba-and-42-days.html" REL="nofollow">It's a magic number</A>!Chris Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15679067503215414300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-9197879993523695142008-06-11T13:58:00.000+01:002008-06-11T13:58:00.000+01:00This will have the Seaside Three - Conwy, Chichest...This will have the Seaside Three - Conwy, Chichester and Dover - twitching their curtains and downloading aQ manuals. But don't they get the £3,000 for the first 28 days too? I'd have said so myself. £140,000 for 42 days. Almost as much as <A HREF="http://chrispaul-labouroflove.blogspot.com/2008/06/tory-sleaze-alan-duncan-in-160000-oil.html" REL="nofollow">Oily Duncan</A> had from the man from horrid nasty Vitol, middle eastern despots favourite oil dealers.Chris Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15679067503215414300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-71724725279697059372008-06-11T13:43:00.000+01:002008-06-11T13:43:00.000+01:00I will not be commenting upon this because Osama b...I will not be commenting upon this because Osama bin Laden is a personal friend of mine and anything I have to say on the matter I shall say to his face.<BR/><BR/>He is also one of the most endearing and honest people you could ever meet. <BR/><BR/>Innocent until proven guilty is what I say.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-21146776187522993072008-06-11T13:42:00.000+01:002008-06-11T13:42:00.000+01:00Of course the Yanks don't need 42 days. They have ...Of course the Yanks don't need 42 days. They have extraordinary rendition and Guantanamo Bay.<BR/><BR/>But think of a list of countries you associate with decent behaviour and then check how many days they can bang people up without charge. You will then be forced to conclude that British Vah-lewes are more in line with Nazi Germany than with anywhere civilised.<BR/><BR/>Compensation of £42,000 if I am imprisoned without charge for the full 42 days? £1000 / 24 = £41.67 per hour. If that is the price of my freedom, I understand how Gordon feels able to contemplate suspending habeas corpus, because in these days of post-boom-and-bust inflation my freedom is worth almost nothing.<BR/><BR/>Which is why if I were undecided I would now be against the proposal. You cannot allow such powers to people who value us so cheaply.<BR/><BR/>But I am against it anyway, because it does place us in the company of tinpot banana republics who don't care about freedom and probably don't care about democracy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-82592846602581921752008-06-11T13:19:00.000+01:002008-06-11T13:19:00.000+01:00Aye, the threat of losing your 125k package,the 18...Aye, the threat of losing your 125k package,the 18 weeks' holiday, the free 'research trips' to such hell holes as Barbados, Acapulco and Monte Carlo and the copious bonus points from the John Lewis shopping catalogue - plus all the free complementary Westminster humbugs you can shove in your gob is enough to make any Gloucester Old Spot think again....Alfiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04135869751268396259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-52062922371294042942008-06-11T12:59:00.000+01:002008-06-11T12:59:00.000+01:00>>Astonishingly, ConservativeHome has declared its...>>Astonishingly, ConservativeHome has declared its support for the government on 42 days.<<<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure why that is astonishing. Much as I vote Conservative and enjoy reading Conservative Home, its editorial line has always been pretty authoritarian.<BR/><BR/>If one of the reasons for objecting to 42 days is distrusting this government not to abuse it, as every other piece of their supposedly 'terrorist' legislation has been abused, I would equally distrust the editors of Conservative Home with such power.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-11475700527166701022008-06-11T11:48:00.000+01:002008-06-11T11:48:00.000+01:00Do People expect this government to be honest on a...Do People expect this government to be honest on anything.<BR/>For years they have said that under (Lying) inflation was around 2%, when we all new that under (Truthful) Inflation figures were a lot higher.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-46042716741913011672008-06-11T11:45:00.000+01:002008-06-11T11:45:00.000+01:00Thank God we have you as well as ConservativeHome!...Thank God we have you as well as ConservativeHome! Your "Conway moment" and general naivety on certain issues are hereby fully expiated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-75089855781491589272008-06-11T11:33:00.000+01:002008-06-11T11:33:00.000+01:00the nodding dogs on the Labour benches dont give a...the nodding dogs on the Labour benches dont give a sh1t about the country. They only care about their jobs<BR/><BR/>" vote for 42 days or get Miliband on Thursday"<BR/><BR/>spineless rubbish one and allAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-86022458377915523202008-06-11T11:28:00.000+01:002008-06-11T11:28:00.000+01:00Newmania said...Brilliant!Newmania said...<BR/><BR/>Brilliant!Bill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-49652063196671330142008-06-11T11:20:00.000+01:002008-06-11T11:20:00.000+01:00Never mind the terrorists getting £3000 a day. My ...Never mind the terrorists getting £3000 a day. My vote is always available as my conscience is easily influenced. <BR/>Gordon Brown can phone me at my constituency and make an impassioned plea that may well move me ... <BR/>On a completely different note I do like the look of the new Quango for the development of sugar cane into ethanol being set up to extensively tour Barbados, Trinidad and Tobago and Bermuda.<BR/>My mobile is switched on and I'll be in all dayBill Quango MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14861116614665461655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-34484518921687204542008-06-11T11:15:00.000+01:002008-06-11T11:15:00.000+01:00Iain, Why is locking somebody up for 42 days 'rig...Iain, Why is locking somebody up for 42 days 'right wing'?<BR/><BR/>I'm right wing (very) and I don't support anything more than the 7 days we used to manage the IRA with.<BR/><BR/>Is it because you've subconsciously accepted the media's definition of right wing: nasty. Is that why you call yourself centre-ring (i.e. different from those nice lefties but not by too much).<BR/><BR/>Getting right wing defined as nasty in most people's minds has been the propaganda coup of the century for socialists. For example, most people would call Nazis right wing. This despite the fact that Nazi is short for National Socialist. Now you wouldn't call a Socialist right wing and you wouldn't call a Nationalist one either. So why does putting them together and gassing Jews make them right wing?<BR/><BR/>The only delineation of right and left wing that makes sense in more than one historical context is as follows: <BR/><BR/>The defining feature is respect for one's ancestors. The left tend to think that anything old is bad and as a result tend to favour revolutionary change. They tend to idealise the future. The right tends to idealise the past and as a result can often be resistant to reasonable changes but on the other hand more rarely get seduced by lunatic policies.<BR/><BR/>I am right wing because I believe that on balance that far more evil has been caused by left wingers (e.g. the Jacobins in France, Napoleon, Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Poll Pot, Mugabe and Mbeki) than by the most right wing people I can think of (Bloody Mary, Charles I of England and Louis XIV of France).<BR/><BR/>Blair is the most right wing leader of the party not because he has been tougher/nastier on terrorism but because unlike his predecessors he didn't try to be too revolutionary. He accepted the Thatcherite past and worked with it rather than trying to overthrow it. In this, alas, he has been much more successful in socialising the British state than any other Labour leader in our history.Scary Biscuitshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03039289019338752778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-50606017245164742732008-06-11T11:01:00.000+01:002008-06-11T11:01:00.000+01:00It is easily enough money. I deffintely support th...It is easily enough money. I deffintely support this now. They get compensated so so what. If it stops people have their legs blow off and innocent people dying. I support it Grow up tories.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12288523549774694722008-06-11T10:57:00.000+01:002008-06-11T10:57:00.000+01:00This addresses one of the main objections - that a...This addresses one of the main objections - that a lengthy period away from work could ruin some-one financially. In practice, it won't cost much because the occasions when innocent people are not freed without charge before 28 days will be rare.<BR/><BR/>With regard to comparisons with other countries,the police here are not allowed to question suspects once they've been charged. If they were allowed to do so, there would be no problem holding suspects for years on end, simply by charging them and then detaining them for questioning until there was enough against them to start a trial.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-66365336103080067662008-06-11T10:54:00.000+01:002008-06-11T10:54:00.000+01:00I am not a fan of this 42 day measure - but isn't ...I am not a fan of this 42 day measure - but isn't the point here that the bill has been filleted about with so much that no one can really tell just exactly how illiberal or not it is any more ??? <BR/><BR/>Especially with this ridiculous smokescreen of 'compo' payments. Will they get extra cash if they are water boarded ? Or taken to a black site prison in Eastern Europe ?? <BR/><BR/>Perhaps if they end up in Guantanamo they will hit the compo jackpot and get a Million Pounds and a load of ticker tape from the ceiling, and a bottle of champers from Chris Tarrant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-80751478688968959612008-06-11T10:48:00.000+01:002008-06-11T10:48:00.000+01:00"The magna carta was a great document for its time...<I>"The magna carta was a great document for its time, and freedoms all fine and dandy..."</I><BR/><BR/>Al-Qaida has one thing going for it: unlike 'spider', at least they're open about their contempt for democratic freedoms.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com