tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post1427998000116610748..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: The Compensation Culture (G)rit LargeIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31417506517124083812010-01-27T13:49:40.955+00:002010-01-27T13:49:40.955+00:00I asked my MP (David Howarth - also an academic an...I asked my MP (David Howarth - also an academic and a lawyer) about this, and he has responded, debunking it: <a href="http://twitpic.com/zzfnu" rel="nofollow">http://twitpic.com/zzfnu</a>crazyscothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07411033559279865493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-79183051152653162832010-01-11T14:28:04.131+00:002010-01-11T14:28:04.131+00:00It's no good cleaning the path without putting...It's no good cleaning the path without putting grit down. Ordinary salt is no good - it refreezes. <br /><br />I think the main problem has been that it is almost impossible for members of the public to get hold of any grit.hobbitukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12469655129137585193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-38614310875120475932010-01-10T23:51:09.823+00:002010-01-10T23:51:09.823+00:00Is not one of the constant Conservative complaints...Is not one of the constant Conservative complaints (and rightly so) that this government has stuffed the statute book with all sorts of unnecessary and counterproductive rubbish?<br /><br />Yet in recent weeks this very site has suggested that one might consider legislating re attacking burglars (the Grayling bollocks) and now this.<br /><br />In both cases, any lawyer would tell you that the law as it stands is pretty much as you are advocating it should be.<br /><br />Please do not fall into the same trap of ignorance/populism that has beset Labour.<br /><br />Please let us have a moratorium on 'Iain's Laws'.Weygandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11359751090279735138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-26232498046029449962010-01-10T21:04:17.665+00:002010-01-10T21:04:17.665+00:00has anyone actually been sued? I cleared 400m toda...has anyone actually been sued? I cleared 400m today...Tim Leunighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08930175702683617125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-70263651064942723202010-01-10T20:57:34.013+00:002010-01-10T20:57:34.013+00:00@Simon Lamb
"...in real world of shovels and...@Simon Lamb<br /><br /><i>"...in real world of shovels and brooms I can't believe this is the kind of behaviour that will end in a court appearance.<br />If I'm wrong, we really are going to the dogs."</i><br /><br />Maybe it wouldn't end in a court appearance, but would you take that risk? Think of the aggravation involved in trying to defend your actions, however well intentioned.<br /><br />And as for “going to the dogs”, that's the expression that crossed my mind last week while driving under a pedestrian footbridge on the M1 dodging lumps of ice being thrown by children.<br /><br />And if you still need convincing that we’re going to the dogs then read the flwg:<br /><br />1. <a href="http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Man-Aged-20-Stabbed-To-Death-In-Rhuddlan-North-Wales-Apparently-After-Snowball-Fight/Article/200912415507624?lid=ARTICLE_15507624_ManAged20StabbedToDeathInRhuddlan,NorthWales,ApparentlyAfterSnowballFight&lpos=searchresults" rel="nofollow">Snowball Death</a><br /><br />2. <a href="http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Sukhwinder-Singh-Stabbed-To-Death-By-Two-Robbers-Near-Barking-Station-In-London/Article/201001215517866?lpos=UK_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_5&lid=ARTICLE_15517866_Sukhwinder_Singh_Stabbed_To_Death_By_Two_Robbers_Near_Barking_Station_In_London" rel="nofollow">Have-A-Go Hero Stabbed To Death</a><br /><br />3. <a href="http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/David-Joslin-Death-23-Year-Old-Killed-In-Chingford-Was-Trying-To-Break-Up-Fight-Say-Police/Article/200912415509278?f=rss" rel="nofollow">David Joslin</a><br /><br />And there's plenty more where that came from.Twighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16698620636313191152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-67216845954625078622010-01-10T19:55:17.178+00:002010-01-10T19:55:17.178+00:00Two things I meant to mention :
Check whether the...Two things I meant to mention :<br /><br />Check whether there's local byelaws on this stuff, I know some local authorities have byelaws about clearing pavements of snow.<br /><br />As has been mentioned, it's a bit rich expecting local authorities to invest millions in equipment for snow if you've not made any provision yourself. Snow chains aren't ideal for the typical British situation (particularly in West Kent, other parts of the county are much better) where you may have to go over several miles of ungritted local roads before getting onto a well-gritted main road that's down to the tarmac. Wheel socks may be a better answer for that mix of conditions and are not particularly expensive, like <£100.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-41306043204250205702010-01-10T19:44:58.303+00:002010-01-10T19:44:58.303+00:00Most people use this kind of story (the FT had a s...Most people use this kind of story (the FT had a similar one yesterday) as a justification to do nothing. Newspaper stories about red wine serve the same purpose: they allow people to behave as they want without a guilty conscience.<br /><br />I have yet to see any cases cited. I'm sure if someone is grossly negligent - using boiling water to melt ice, for example - they deserve to be sued but in real world of shovels and brooms I can't believe this is the kind of behaviour that will end in a court appearance.<br />If I'm wrong, we really are going to the dogs.Simon Lambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16121922397747359879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-7150453729464135892010-01-10T18:38:23.140+00:002010-01-10T18:38:23.140+00:00On your own land, it's pretty simple. You owe ...On your own land, it's pretty simple. You owe visitors a duty under the Occupiers Liability Act 1984 to take reasonable care to ensure that they are reasonably safe. So you are obliged to eg clear the path to your door so that postie can deliver your mail.<br /><br />Under Section 41(1A) of the Highways Act 1980, the council must ensure that safe passage along a highway is not endangered by snow or ice. The highway includes the pavement, and in theory you could apply for a court order to get them to clear it.<br /><br />As has been mentioned above, the onus would be on the slippee to prove that you had deliberately tried to make the pavement more dangerous, such as by pouring water on it or clearing snow to reveal an ice sheet underneath. And even if they tried to give it a go, your legal bills would be covered by the personal liability cover of your house insurance.<br /><br />Also, be sensible - don't clear the whole pavement, just enough for people to walk down. Not only does that mean that any pedestrian has the option of walking down untouched snow/ice (neutering many legal arguments) but it's generally safer in any case, the original snow can be safer first thing, the cleared area safer once that thin film of ice has melted in the morning.<br /><br />So it's not quite an urban myth, more a theoretical thing that doesn't happen in practice. Me, I've been clearing from my house down to the old lady two doors down whenever we've had fresh snow lately. Today we've had the first real risk of meltwater refreezing, and I made a footpath of one shovel width down about 200yds of the pavement on the other side of the street, which is the side most people use and which will be lethal if it freezes tonight. Took almost no time, but I feel very virtuous having done it. :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-58407747899897693292010-01-10T17:30:11.665+00:002010-01-10T17:30:11.665+00:00Do NOT change the law to make it a requirement to ...Do NOT change the law to make it a requirement to clear snow from outside our own property. Think about it. What will the Council do? It'll employ an army of inspectors with cameras to make sure that you do and set out to make a shed load of cash from the resulting 'penalties'.Lolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04586735342675041312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-59475447195860371782010-01-10T17:21:12.856+00:002010-01-10T17:21:12.856+00:00I pay taxes and expect a man with a shovel. The Go...I pay taxes and expect a man with a shovel. The Government pay for outreach coordinators why can't they outreach and shovel the snow. My girlfriend is always complaining that I leave the toilet seat up. Why can't Gordon Brown get me somebody round to put it down? Doesn't Gordon know Im f&(king lazy and have a right to have Government help. Where's his Labour investment when you need it.javelinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04685858339910528013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-41563989548366705602010-01-10T16:33:03.481+00:002010-01-10T16:33:03.481+00:00People NOT clearing the pavement in front of their...People NOT clearing the pavement in front of their property is all we can expect from this age of cradle-to-grave state "care".<br /><br />In the 1960's in Aberdeen we used to have the umemployed out clearing the streets after a heavy snowfall. A simple solution to a simple problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-47688062293730394082010-01-10T16:14:19.851+00:002010-01-10T16:14:19.851+00:00I am always amused by the people moaning about pav...I am always amused by the people moaning about pavements not being gritted as they walk around in smooth soled shoes. <br /><br />The pavement plough / gritted usually comes up past my house soon after 09:00h if there has been fresh snow but some Scottish councils just get on the with the job.<br /><br />Similar to the people moaning about the lack of preparedness by the council in their car with no shovel in the boot, no warm clothing, no blanket.......<br /><br />I used to have chains for my car but they no longer fit my current car so perhaps get some for next Winter - not need for some years because I had a 4WD car until last year.JMBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13862227988978988383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-28289262106074967542010-01-10T16:06:51.534+00:002010-01-10T16:06:51.534+00:00Grim Reaper, Presumably the Germans and Swiss have...Grim Reaper, Presumably the Germans and Swiss have thought of this and have amended their rules accordingly. So could we.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-46193828890112567592010-01-10T16:06:06.617+00:002010-01-10T16:06:06.617+00:00The weather man on LBC said that if you throw salt...The weather man on LBC said that if you throw salt on the snow it will melt it unless the temperature falls below 8c, in which case the melted snow will refreeze into black ice.Twighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16698620636313191152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-61646702415966602952010-01-10T16:04:45.361+00:002010-01-10T16:04:45.361+00:00Iain, what about people who, through no fault of t...Iain, what about people who, through no fault of their own, can't keep their own driveways clear?<br /><br />Case in point - my girlfriend. I live with her in Northern Ireland and she has to use a frame in order to walk. She has to use a wheelchair sometimes too. Thankfully, I'm able to keep the outside of the house and the driveway up to the house clear. But what if I wasn't around - how would you expect her to do the job?The Grim Reaperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05543130733645367498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-85915779617140935492010-01-10T15:58:37.395+00:002010-01-10T15:58:37.395+00:00If I lived in Scotland then I would expect the cou...If I lived in Scotland then I would expect the council to invest heavily in salt/grit and snow clearing machinery as they get snow in large quantities EVERY year.Osama the Nazarenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13627668308711758602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-22460034282088703472010-01-10T15:24:57.063+00:002010-01-10T15:24:57.063+00:00I have used snow chains in this country on one occ...I have used snow chains in this country on one occasion in 1987. They were very good until the snow drifted and lifted the wheels of the ground.<br /><br />Snow chais when used with no snow damage the road so you can only use them when there is good snow cover. They also damage your tyres and car if badly fitted.<br /><br />Snow tyres are expensive and have to be fitted, stored when not in use and not very good above 10 degrees C.<br /><br />Titus Aductas states that 6 months of the year UK temperatures are below 10 degrees C. That is usually at night when I for one do not drive much or in the north of Scotland where I do not go.<br /><br />I see no need for snow tyres here unless we get colder winters.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12146467728776928724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-22280816962807237902010-01-10T15:12:29.094+00:002010-01-10T15:12:29.094+00:00A relative of mine went on a first aid course a wh...A relative of mine went on a first aid course a while back. She was afterwards told that the official advice is against administering first aid to a casualty unless you have the appropriate liability insurance.<br /><br />So we now have a society in which coming to the assistance of the injured, one the better parts of human nature, carries the risk of a heavy penalty. Something’s truly rotten in the state of Britain.<br /><br /><br />BTW Re. ‘Gas supplies are not running out’. That ought to be reassuring. Unfortunately, rather like an inverse of the ‘Simon Says’ game, the Gordon Says Rule tells us that the opposite is true.<br /><br />Sure enough, even in the same news broadcast, R4 informed us that major industrial consumers were being warned to cut back. Heigh ho, business as usual from Gordy.Dave Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02330412326038302877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-36158649794881447482010-01-10T15:08:49.080+00:002010-01-10T15:08:49.080+00:00I live in a house on the corner of two roads so I ...I live in a house on the corner of two roads so I have a 'kerbage' of around 30m. If the snow is 10cm deep that is 3 cubic metres of snow to shift. <br /><br />Where do I put it? It is not mine, I don't want some council jobsworth accusing me of stealing it (think it wouldn't happen?). If I put it in the gutter I could be accused of blocking drainage, or some mad cycling fanatic will accuse me of blocking the carriageway, or someone accusing me of blocking a parking space. You may like to think that it won't happen but experience with councils and fines for various 'bin' offences...<br /><br />So until the issue of public liability is resolved, including disposal of the cleared snow, and until arrangements are made for householders who are too old or frail to shift large quantities of snow... the damn stuff can lay there until it melts.DiscoveredJoyshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05300239909689336895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-52846356844802073812010-01-10T14:38:23.432+00:002010-01-10T14:38:23.432+00:00And the wording of such a new law would be?
The p...And the wording of such a new law would be?<br /><br />The problem with the public highway is that (unlike one's own property), there is no duty to intervene, so it is only by actually doing so that one can incur liability.<br /><br />Unless you give carte blanche to every lunatic to perform any crazy stunt, then one is going to have to apply some test of reasonableness, ie end up with the law as it already is.Weygandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11359751090279735138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78808866239782228562010-01-10T14:26:35.384+00:002010-01-10T14:26:35.384+00:00Like @Martin, I'm the only person in my street...Like @Martin, I'm the only person in my street (of about 150 terraced houses) who has cleared the footpath for the length of my frontage, and like him I think this is whiney tabloid myth making of the straight banana school. Has anyone ever been sued for clearing the footpath outside their home? No. Is this an excuse for lazy householders to do nothing? Yes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1354246373974456112010-01-10T14:11:24.533+00:002010-01-10T14:11:24.533+00:00"Indeed, let's go one step futher and ado..."Indeed, let's go one step futher and adopt the same laws that they have in Germany, Switzerland, the USA and Canada?"<br /><br />I disagree with Government dictated insistence that people clear public spaces.<br /><br />Winter tyres sound like a good idea. Anyone know if buses and ambulances routinely get fitted with them?<br /><br />Dick Puddlecote, <br /><br />The RoSPA thing appears to apply to your own private property, not the public footpath.<br /><br />I would guess that if you clear the footpath and do a proper job, putting grit or salt down afterwards to prevent ice from forming you'd have nothing to fear from someone threatening to sue you. They would surely have to prove you made matters worse for you to lose in court.Garethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11182144080955551878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19603642325348499202010-01-10T13:58:20.247+00:002010-01-10T13:58:20.247+00:00Even in sunny (today) Spain there is a requirement...Even in sunny (today) Spain there is a requirement to own and USE chains on some roads at certain times of year (weather dependent!)the police stop and search and cars without chains are not allowed to go any further.Span Owshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10144861546996033462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78794078590053325022010-01-10T13:55:47.922+00:002010-01-10T13:55:47.922+00:00@Martin, It is not an Urban myth. The law is quite...@Martin, It is not an Urban myth. The law is quite clear, leave your path/the pavement as it is and it is an act of God if someone slips and you can't sue God. Once you touch that snow, you then become liable if something happens. Lord Davies said: "No householder is at all responsible, providing they do not touch the pavement, which is owned by the local authority." <br /><br />Lord Davies of Oldham <br /><br />But he added: "The moment they address the issue of the pavement with a view to improving things, which may lead to a deterioration, it may be their action that makes them culpable." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3453039.stm Unfortunately 6 years later, nothing has changed.Road_Hoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03033270629775615715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-55118552232546444692010-01-10T13:44:37.205+00:002010-01-10T13:44:37.205+00:00tris at 1.28pm...
I bet they don't that that ...tris at 1.28pm...<br /><br /><i>I bet they don't that that stupid law in Germany.</i><br /><br />Which stupid law is that then? The <i>Suing Householders When You Slip On The Pavement Act?</i><br /><br />Please protect us from these people.Bob Piperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13792439016502695274noreply@blogger.com