tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post116946544854384003..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Let's Get our Streets 'Naked'Iain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169635213618388442007-01-24T10:40:00.000+00:002007-01-24T10:40:00.000+00:00Why should the needs of motorists always come firs...Why should the needs of motorists always come first? What about pedestrians? Even the most die-hard car driver gets out of their car sometimes and takes a few teetering steps, sometimes across a road. At that point, they realise what a death-trap many of our urban roads have become, with people disobeying everything from traffic lights to pedestrian crossings. What makes the driver-faschists think it will get any better by planting a few bushes?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169569319545062092007-01-23T16:21:00.000+00:002007-01-23T16:21:00.000+00:00No, no, no.This is one of those occasions wheory t...No, no, no.<BR/><BR/>This is one of those occasions wheory theory is a triumph over practicality. <BR/><BR/>The approach IS used in Holland, but the guidelines are clear. It only works where traffic flows are very low ... some 800 cars a day (that's 1 or 2 a minute).<BR/><BR/>My friendly local London borough has done this in a couple of roads. It looked nice to start with ... lots of bushes and trees (to hide the sightlines so you can't see what's coming and persuade you to slow down) etc etc<BR/><BR/>The reality? Trees demolished. "Pavements" (actually road edges) not wide enough for a pushchair. Cars speeding. <BR/><BR/>No deaths yet. But I give it a year.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169566444874559072007-01-23T15:34:00.000+00:002007-01-23T15:34:00.000+00:00Of course "Priority to the right" would have to be...Of course "Priority to the right" would have to be changed to Priority to the Left for the UK context. Hope all Tories would support that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169566055174530412007-01-23T15:27:00.000+00:002007-01-23T15:27:00.000+00:00One solid piece of evidence that this would indeed...One solid piece of evidence that this would indeed work to reduce congestion is buried in TFL's own statistics. According to their website, over the last 12 years or so, traffic speeds and the number of daily car journeys into London have plummeted; meanwhile, "traffic calming" schemes, speed bumps, traffic lights, no-turn signs, etc have all proliferated. <BR/><BR/>Basically, the more cars and the less clutter you have on the streets, the faster traffic moves; conversely, the more buses and traffic management schemes you have, the slower it moves.<BR/><BR/>Nirvana was around 1982, when we had twice as many cars coming into London in the rush hour and yet somehow they were all moving faster. <BR/><BR/>Logically therefore one should find a way to turn the clock back to 1982. Livingstone wouldn't even need to quit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169561200073284732007-01-23T14:06:00.000+00:002007-01-23T14:06:00.000+00:00I've seen this in action: Nairobi has hardly any t...I've seen this in action: Nairobi has hardly any traffic lights and it's not safe to stop at them anyway. Result: pedestrians race for their lives and deathrate astronomical. It does work when it is about giving pedestrians and cyclings ownership of the road and making car drivers nervous and cautious and unable to assumje the road is theirs. But as a Tory policy - is just more Friend-of-the-Motorist nonsense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169548423220265052007-01-23T10:33:00.000+00:002007-01-23T10:33:00.000+00:00I counted about 80 street signs in Caden Road just...I counted about 80 street signs in Caden Road just recently. It's street vandalism!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169541013571446002007-01-23T08:30:00.000+00:002007-01-23T08:30:00.000+00:00I remeber driving into Cambridge and was suprised ...I remeber driving into Cambridge and was suprised how the traffic was flowing. The reason, a main set of traffic lights had failed and instead of waiting for about 5 mins.I drove straight through. The trouble is that we have car hating establishment that delight in making car journies difficult and/or more expensiveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169539397169191032007-01-23T08:03:00.000+00:002007-01-23T08:03:00.000+00:00Priority to the Right is under severe attack where...Priority to the Right is under severe attack wherever it is in force, and the government in France is planning to end it.<BR/><BR/>The key (and essentially unaddressed) problem in all these issues is that whilst many drivers are cautious, pleasant and well behaved, a determined and fairly large element are not. This element also are frequently driving overpowered modern cars with scant regard for pedestrians and others. The net result is that in many areas, roads are nests of what can only be described as terrorism. Young male drivers in particular (but not exclusively) are frequently quite unable to determine risk.<BR/><BR/>Governments around the world are slowly realising that they need to bite the bullet and remove a substantial number of drivers from the roads. This is practically impossible if, as in Britain, you lower the numbers of traffic cops. In the US and Germany, where it is being implemented aggressively, road accidents have fallen, driver behaviour has improved and roads flow better because there are fewer stressful incidents.<BR/><BR/>With the wrong driving culture still in place, trick measures like removing road signs and markings will rapidly be undermined by the "mental" brigade who don't care about other drivers or other people in the way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169508900170784322007-01-22T23:35:00.000+00:002007-01-22T23:35:00.000+00:00In Italy there is priority to the right so that t...In Italy there is priority to the right so that those on the roundabout give way to those coming on; except for some roundabouts (unmarked) where it's like in England with those coming on giving way to those already going round. All of this is done as fast as we can go so it's very exciting - it'll be the death of me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169505627255928942007-01-22T22:40:00.000+00:002007-01-22T22:40:00.000+00:00The section that you quote there is absolutely spo...The section that you quote there is absolutely spot-on. I recall an occasion last year when lightning knocked out pretty much all the traffic lights in my town at 5pm, and, just like it says, traffic flowed much faster than normal, because everyone was relying on their own judgement. Sounds crazy, but it works. <BR/>Similarly, a new industrial development at the north end of my town has seen a perfectly good roundabout turned into a multi-laned & lighted monstrosity. Multiple lanes are alright if they're designed properly, but whoever designed these must have been on LSD, its a death-trap, with double lanes on the roundabout leading straight into single-carriageway roads.Gavinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10843996857494739064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169499304935332092007-01-22T20:55:00.000+00:002007-01-22T20:55:00.000+00:00Sorry, Vienna Woods. I thought you were referring...Sorry, Vienna Woods. I thought you were referring to turning right on a red light!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169499113552911252007-01-22T20:51:00.000+00:002007-01-22T20:51:00.000+00:00verity wrote,the arrows and 'proceed with caution'...verity wrote,<BR/><BR/>the arrows and 'proceed with caution' signs here are up next to the traffic light, so you don't have to crane to see them. If you are looking at the light, you see the sign.<BR/><BR/>Eh! I wasn't talking about junctions with traffic lights! I was referring to normal junctions, which may, or may not, have a "Give Way" sign. Why should one have to look out for the back of a sign on somebody else's road. It's bloody ridiculous.<BR/><BR/>Quite different from the normal traffic lights you have in the UK, which are controlled by capacitive wires measuring the volume of traffic, we have to put up with mainly "timed" traffic signals which waste energy and actually hinder traffic flow. We've also just had the socialists here put a blanket speed limit across the whole of Vienna (40MPH) to try and curtail the fine dust from diesel engines. Of course the brainless mayor has no idea of engineering theory and the emissions have actually increased. They have now been forced to increase the speeds on main artery road because of severe congestion and it's not going to be long before the rest of Vienna returns to sensible limits - but it will be done very quietly!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169495170785085872007-01-22T19:46:00.000+00:002007-01-22T19:46:00.000+00:00Anonymous 12:38 - Mexico has this system as well, ...Anonymous 12:38 - Mexico has this system as well, although not at every red light. The red light has to have a sign up that has an arrow pointing right and says "Proceed with caution". Again, it speeds up traffic for everyone.<BR/><BR/>Vienna Woods - the arrows and 'proceed with caution' signs here are up next to the traffic light, so you don't have to crane to see them. If you are looking at the light, you see the sign.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169493862484442942007-01-22T19:24:00.000+00:002007-01-22T19:24:00.000+00:00Houston has staggered traffic lights on the routes...Houston has staggered traffic lights on the routes into downtown, meaning, as long as you maintain a speed of around 28 mph, you will have green lights all the way in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169493503560913792007-01-22T19:18:00.000+00:002007-01-22T19:18:00.000+00:00An absolute guaranteed vote winner and a richly de...An absolute guaranteed vote winner and a richly deserved poke in the eye for the government and county council transport nannies, who have been secretly implementing their own unannounced anti-roads policy for years.<BR/><BR/>These are the people whose supposed anti-car safety crusade has disappeared so far up its own road hump that it is no longer understood by the motorists or pedestrians it is aimed at.<BR/><BR/>Never mind the must-spend-the-budget administrative incompetence that leads to signs being repeated in triplicate, what about the oceans of white paint splattered across perfectly safe dual carriageways in an effort to discourage anyone who dare consider the heresy of an overtake?<BR/><BR/>There are roads and streets all over this country now where the volume of signage is no so repetitive, dense and excessive that it becomes impossible to take anything in.<BR/><BR/>It is an obsessive, undemocratic, ineffective and incompetent policy that has turned our streetscape into an ugly mess.<BR/><BR/>Ditch it and ditch the people responsible.MorrisOxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11952846056079111473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169490574607990622007-01-22T18:29:00.000+00:002007-01-22T18:29:00.000+00:00This has been implemented in the Netherlands and i...This has been implemented in the Netherlands and in one or two UK towns.<BR/><BR/>The visual clutter of street signs is unsightly. Most markings require constant upkeep as well, although there is a requirement for these to support traffic orders that regulate parking and turning etc.<BR/><BR/>Other methods such as different materials for raised pedestrian crossing points, narrow streets to slow traffic, the use of parked cars as natural traffic calming etc are more effective than road signs.<BR/><BR/>The reason that planners have "too much power" is that the outdated laws date back to the 1940s. 95% of small householder planning applications are approved - so what is the point in having this check if something goes wrong. At the same time, councillors will bend over backwards to developers waving cash around (under section 106 of the town and country planning act in England), hence many of the eyesore buildings and clone housing. Planning should involve people far more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169484424945337662007-01-22T16:47:00.000+00:002007-01-22T16:47:00.000+00:00Where I live the metal thieves have decided how ma...Where I live the metal thieves have decided how many roads signs we should have- nearly ever other sign has been nicked and not replaced.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169480294089478232007-01-22T15:38:00.000+00:002007-01-22T15:38:00.000+00:00YES! Dig 'em all up, I'll help!YES! Dig 'em all up, I'll help!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169480254839624712007-01-22T15:37:00.000+00:002007-01-22T15:37:00.000+00:00Priority to the right in France: Er, no it is stil...Priority to the right in France: Er, no it is still there. It is not in use at many roundabouts, but the Arc de Triomphe is not one of those. It is in use in most towns where junctions are often not marked, although it doesn't apply to marked junctions.<BR/><BR/>If you see a sign with a thick vertical arrow and a horizontal line through it, you are on a priority road to which priority to the right does not apply. If you see a sign with an X-shaped cross you are approaching a junction where it does apply.<BR/><BR/>Some of the roundabouts in Belgium also do not have priority to the right any more, but otherwise it is much more widely used.<BR/><BR/>No warranty implied ... etc., but mind how you go.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169477496774189412007-01-22T14:51:00.000+00:002007-01-22T14:51:00.000+00:00KHS is indeed a much better place and that is as a...KHS is indeed a much better place and that is as a driver and as a pedestrian. <BR/><BR/>Vietnam and to a lesser extent Bangkok shows how lower peak speeds in urban areas can actually improve flow. Doing 20mph means there is little need to stop for people, as the speeds are low enough for peoplel to walk across the road and, if necessary, stop in the middle in safety without an island.<BR/><BR/>I think highly geared manual cars have a lot to do with the subconsious need to exeed the 30mph limit.Roger Thornhillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01153744692290896812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169476624666805442007-01-22T14:37:00.000+00:002007-01-22T14:37:00.000+00:00Re: Chris P Hmmm. So if this has been so well know...Re: Chris P <BR/><BR/>Hmmm. So if this has been so well known for at least two years, why haven't nuLab Transport Ministers done anything to promote it? Surely even they are in favour of reducing road casualties? Or maybe they're happy that pedestrians in Labour Hackney are more likely to be killed on the roads than those in Conservative Kensington & Chelsea?<BR/><BR/>Just another failed opportunity for this moribund administration to add to all the rest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169476144375628592007-01-22T14:29:00.000+00:002007-01-22T14:29:00.000+00:00Ahhh machiavelli says it was in the 2001 Conservat...Ahhh machiavelli says it was in the 2001 Conservative manifesto which trumps the 2005 press stories from chris p. The electorate just loved that manifesto didn't they! Not quite as much as the one in 1997 mind. <BR/><BR/>Though of course Dave/id's 2005 dog whistle old Toryism was the corker which set the parties fortunes in the right direction of travel. What a shame about his subsequent U-Turn to mad-for-it Blairism. What a fruitcake.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169475689223292762007-01-22T14:21:00.000+00:002007-01-22T14:21:00.000+00:00Well done to the Tories on re-hashing a story cove...Well done to the Tories on re-hashing a story covered by the national media in great detail as long as <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space" REL="nofollow">two full years</A> ago. Brilliant idea from Dave/id.<BR/><BR/>And haven't the French thought better of the murderous Prioité å Droite Mark Williams?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169475161937528672007-01-22T14:12:00.000+00:002007-01-22T14:12:00.000+00:00I think this is an interesting idea worthy of furt...I think this is an interesting idea worthy of further exploration, but just yet I don't have sufficient confidence in it's prospects. Not because the concepts are wrong, clearly they are not. What worries me is the fact that we don't seem to be such a caring sharing nation as Holland, our government have just nominated <A HREF="http://south-shields.blogspot.com/2007/01/shared-space-traffic-measures.html#links" REL="nofollow">40 Charva Centrals</A> for more anti-social behavious cash!Curlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15795795668889685782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1169474553912855652007-01-22T14:02:00.001+00:002007-01-22T14:02:00.001+00:00This has been tried in Amsterdam hasn`t it ? No se...This has been tried in Amsterdam hasn`t it ? No seriously the roiad signs type of naked. I thought I remembered that it didn`t work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com