tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post115321417945690387..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Message to Tim: Let's Be Patient While We Build a New Conservative CoalitionIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153307402166151092006-07-19T12:10:00.000+01:002006-07-19T12:10:00.000+01:00TM sometimes shows his more headbanger side. He's ...TM sometimes shows his more headbanger side. He's a Christian conservative first and a Conservative second. It's rather like the Christian conservatives in the States who now assume that one cannot be an athiest, or gay, or pro choice and also be a Republican. His attempts to associate ConHome with pro-life campaigns have certainly put me off.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153302590278225192006-07-19T10:49:00.000+01:002006-07-19T10:49:00.000+01:00I would prefer a "right wing" (you can define your...I would prefer a "right wing" (you can define your own terms but in my book I guess right of centre)opposition to a left of centre one or none at all. I am equally concerned by views which often strike me as unconservative. <BR/><BR/>As for the size of party memberships, that may be a fair point. However just because members are a self selecting group it does not necessarily follow that some if not many so called right wing views are not only reflected in the electorate as a whole but more widely so than in any one party.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153298968146345082006-07-19T09:49:00.000+01:002006-07-19T09:49:00.000+01:00I'm worried about the number of head-in-the-sand r...I'm worried about the number of head-in-the-sand reactionaries on Tim's website (so unlike himself) who would rather a very right wing Tory opposition to a Conservative Government.<BR/>What is it that attracts them to another 4 or 5 years of Labour?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153287797153593842006-07-19T06:43:00.000+01:002006-07-19T06:43:00.000+01:00It is important to remember that party members are...It is important to remember that party members are a small percentage of the total electorate.<BR/><BR/>The membership (for instance) of the Labour Party is less than 200,000 where as there are about 44,000,000 registered voters in the United Kingdom. That is to say members of the Labour Party represent less than half of one percent of those registered to vote at a General Election. The position in the other main parties is no better.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Accordingly the end game of winning elections has to be be policies that are attractive to the majority and the faithful will have to lump them.Bill Kearnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18395743740926128207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153274505007762392006-07-19T03:01:00.000+01:002006-07-19T03:01:00.000+01:00Verity and PCF speak for me too.Cameron seemed a d...Verity and PCF speak for me too.<BR/><BR/>Cameron seemed a desperate attempt by the party to emulate a Blair-style leader. <I>(Why!?)</I> Many were prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, but oh dear... <B>Big Bloody Mistake.</B><BR/><BR/>What a <I>lot</I> of people want is someone to just do the basics - no wanky glacier jaunts or hoodie love-ins.<BR/><BR/>In no particular order...<BR/><BR/>1. Stop taxing ordinary people 'til the pips squeak. And then pissing all the money away.<BR/><BR/>2. Educate kids to at least be able to read, write and do basic maths by the time they leave school. This may involve some discipline. How Victorian.<BR/><BR/>3. Locate and (gasp!) <I>lock up</I> criminals. For repeat offenders, make this for a long time.<BR/><BR/>4. Have a referendum on our membership of the EU. And <I>leave</I> if the demand is there. It is only a political organisation, after all.<BR/><BR/>5. Have a reliable, safe and accountable health service. Realise that this paid-for service is not a sacred cow that is above criticism.<BR/><BR/>6. Stop the Orwellian PC thought policing that now pervades our whole society.<BR/><BR/>7. Halt unlimited immigration.<BR/><BR/>So who do such people vote for?<BR/><BR/>Lab? No.<BR/>Con? Er, I think not.<BR/>Lib? (Hell, no!)<BR/><BR/>Not much left, is there?<BR/><BR/>And people wonder why the electorate dislike politicians and don't turn out to vote.<BR/><BR/>The Conservatives <I>should</I> be light years ahead of Labour in the polls. I cannot recall a more sleazy, disliked and just plain USELESS government.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153264464151988732006-07-19T00:14:00.000+01:002006-07-19T00:14:00.000+01:00Thank god he's gone. The man's an utter loon. Wond...Thank god he's gone. The man's an utter loon. Wonder what this evidence he claims to be sitting on actually is? <BR/><BR/>At least if someone hacks into our computers, we'll know who it is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153263635806010232006-07-19T00:00:00.000+01:002006-07-19T00:00:00.000+01:00"Gary Elsby is henceforth banned from making comme..."<I>Gary Elsby is henceforth banned from making comments on this site.<BR/><BR/>He has encouraged law breaking and frankly has just become a bit of a bore</I>." - Iain Dale<BR/><BR/>Nice one Iain!!Chris Palmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17270498803593841764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153262894091534222006-07-18T23:48:00.000+01:002006-07-18T23:48:00.000+01:00I agree with Phone Cam Foolery. Cameron is a lose...I agree with Phone Cam Foolery. Cameron is a loser. As far as I am concerned, he is coasting on Empty. <BR/><BR/>And even if the Tories get in, as PCF notes, the electorate will vote them out again fast as they are hit by the cold reality that they voted in another Tony Blair, whom they loathe.<BR/><BR/>David Davis is a winner.<BR/><BR/>Dave did a Tonyesque trick at their last Conference. He gave a speech without notes. So how does this piece of cheap theatricality qualify him to be the prime minister of one of the world's most important countries? It was as pointless and empty as any of the Blairesqueries we have grown so nauseated by over the past nine years.<BR/><BR/>The next election will signal the collapse of the major parties and anyone who doesn't think the middle class conservative thinker will not desert to UKIP (Nigel Farage is far more impressive than is Dave) and even the BNP.<BR/><BR/>Dave may get some Lib-Dems with his Huskie Pics and his windmill on his roof, but he will alienate core Tories who want to see socialist ideas rooted out of schools, political correctness (thought fascism) clubbed to death, the public sector slice 'n' diced, the destruction of the family halted and reversed, a moratorium on immigration and 'asylum seekers', and illegals sent back (or sent anywhere).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153262015525808062006-07-18T23:33:00.000+01:002006-07-18T23:33:00.000+01:00Gary Elsby is henceforth banned from making commen...Gary Elsby is henceforth banned from making comments on this site.<BR/><BR/>He has encouraged law breaking and frankly has just become a bit of a bore.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153261969291100002006-07-18T23:32:00.000+01:002006-07-18T23:32:00.000+01:00Pulsar, so you want Labour to be reelected then?bt...Pulsar, so you want Labour to be reelected then?<BR/><BR/>bt - you are deliberately misinterpreting what I wrote. At no time did I say we should ditch our principles.<BR/><BR/>malcolm, when I said that I meant that like Tony Blair, David Cameron has a reach across society which IDS and MH did not have.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153259564122205612006-07-18T22:52:00.000+01:002006-07-18T22:52:00.000+01:00David Kendrick.Hornsey fame?strapworldDavid Kendrick.<BR/><BR/>Hornsey fame?<BR/><BR/>strapworldstrapworldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18228784526399929300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153258226633635242006-07-18T22:30:00.000+01:002006-07-18T22:30:00.000+01:00Reading this thread has really convinced me that s...Reading this thread has really convinced me that something has to be done within the Conservative Party to make the leaders see sense. There has been a lot of near hytericcal comment about the right wing being out of touch, but that is plainly silly comment. I don't give a damn about the right wing and I'm not a hanger, or flogger. We do however have to reach the people and believe me the antics of Dave Cameron so far are so far off target to be almost embarrassing. I have to say that many Conservatives in the past have failed to connect with the will of the people because they have been so far removed from ordinary folk as chalk from cheese. It is a fact that at least 63% of any population are, sorry to say it, simple living folk. These were the former Labour voters, but are rather fickle in their voting habits, most of them thinking it is a waste of time. Catch the imagination of these people and you've cracked it. Start talking to them about being kind to Hoodies and you'll most likely get a smack in the mouth. Likewise if you start telling them about icebergs melting. They're just not bloody well interested. I've done enough canvassing amongst these people and they are the people to touch. Blair has screwed their jobs, lied to them, cheated them and they are just waiting for someone without a plum in his mouth to speak with them on their level, but there's not a lot of Tories that could, or would do that!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153252070291970762006-07-18T20:47:00.000+01:002006-07-18T20:47:00.000+01:00Blue2winMay I say that I have not read such a load...Blue2win<BR/>May I say that I have not read such a load of well thought out common sense for a very long time. I just wish I had written that lot myself,Bloody WELL DONE.<BR/><BR/>I am a Thatcherite from my tit to my toe. I have always considered MT as the true Conservative liberal. The greatest liberater of the human spirit in modern political history.<BR/><BR/>However I know that a lot of people that have been watching to much BBC TV for the last 30 years or so will not understand a word of what you have written.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153251696299588652006-07-18T20:41:00.000+01:002006-07-18T20:41:00.000+01:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153248182408907642006-07-18T19:43:00.000+01:002006-07-18T19:43:00.000+01:00Gary ElsbyMay I apeal to you better side because I...Gary Elsby<BR/>May I apeal to you better side because I know everybody has one. What is wrong with waiting until there is a DC government before ranting like a cross between Tony Ben and Atila the Hun.<BR/><BR/>There is not so much wrong with Tony Blair. It is his party and the Starlinist statist authoritarian Marxist crazys in his party that are our problem not one man. I dont instictively lie about anything, but if I had his party as my "friends" lieing is the only way I could keep my job. How else is he supposed to raise money for his party post clause 4? The Tories already have all the cream. We have been at it a lot longer than Labour. <BR/><BR/>As for the classic, "they are all as bad as each other stuff". You are right. I dont trust any politicians, infact I dont trust anyone except my mother, I sugest you start thinking the same.<BR/><BR/>Making the statements you do are simply imature rude and silly. Do you think you are the only person to work out that politicians lie?As you say Disraeli worked it out over a hundred years ago.<BR/><BR/>To get elected DC needs 43% of the popular vote at least. Have you ever been in a group where even 43% of people agreed about anything for long? Apart from the fact that it was your turn to buy the next beers.<BR/><BR/>Politics for a vaste magority of ordinary people has always been electing the better of two evils, thats just HOW IT IS. All the childish rantings in the world , will not ever change this FACT.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153248056214949672006-07-18T19:40:00.000+01:002006-07-18T19:40:00.000+01:00"hate to say it, but in this regard, David Cameron..."hate to say it, but in this regard, David Cameron is indeed our Tony Blair. Blair managed to build a coalition of support in the last three elections from people of both sexes, across all classes and all social group"<BR/><BR/>So what? Why do you care about “a coalition of support”? Why do you want power if not to do what you /think/ to be right? If you can't get elected because few want what you believe – well… that’s democracy isn’t it?<BR/><BR/>The alternative (the NuLab / NuTory) model seems to be figure out what people want and offer just that. This is just grubbing for power for its own sake. I can’t see the point of trying to get power to do thing I don’t actually, deeply, genuinely believe in them. I’d much rather be in opposition, actually opposing and fighting the things I disagree.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153247769389006822006-07-18T19:36:00.000+01:002006-07-18T19:36:00.000+01:00Ha ha Gary. You are a complete ninny. Denial first...Ha ha Gary. You are a complete ninny. Denial first, and now the threats of hacking my computer. Go on. Try it. Make my day.Chris Palmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17270498803593841764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153247288953048842006-07-18T19:28:00.000+01:002006-07-18T19:28:00.000+01:00Gary, you really are living in another world. Are ...Gary, you really are living in another world. Are you trying to tell me that you are a professional Toey watcher (presumably paid by the Labour party), you have information to finish the Tories but instead of handing it over the the Labour Party communications unit, you send it to Tory bloggers!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153246995508846772006-07-18T19:23:00.000+01:002006-07-18T19:23:00.000+01:00Mr Elsby,Why can you inform us of this great scand...Mr Elsby,<BR/><BR/>Why can you inform us of this great scandal here? Or send it to a non-Tory newspaper?<BR/><BR/>Seeing as Guido is supposedly a libertarian I find it hard to believe he'd be keen on Cameron's Tories.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153246833654888452006-07-18T19:20:00.000+01:002006-07-18T19:20:00.000+01:00I guess I must be one of the often derided "core" ...I guess I must be one of the often derided "core" Tory voters whose views and vote do not seem to matter. <BR/> <BR/>Well that is fine by me. I first registered Cameron about a year before the election when the BBC reported on one of his speeches. It alarmed me then and reading a transcript of the speech which his secretary sent me did nothing to instill confidence. I am afraid to say it has been downhill since then. <BR/><BR/><BR/>I have not and will not renew my party membership. I have always voted to return a Tory to Parliament and even persuaded my former Labour party activist wife to vote Tory at the last election. As things stand we shall not vote for a Cameroon Conservative Party nor I suspect shall members of our family.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153246068493665562006-07-18T19:07:00.000+01:002006-07-18T19:07:00.000+01:00Blue2win,I wouldn't say that 11,000 plus voters (b...Blue2win,<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't say that 11,000 plus voters (basically the majority held by the previous incumbent) is insignificant.Okay, Bromley and Chiselhurst is in real golf club Tory country but so are a lot of other supposedly safe seats. <BR/><BR/>And if Dave's strategy were working surely the Tories would have gained some votes from the centre to at least balance the ones he might alienate on the right. There was no evidence of this. The party lost damn near all its majority (which I'd guess comes from its traditional supporters who simply stayed at home) and gained sweet fa from the centre. Worse they lost 800 to UKIP. The Labour voters who have had a belly full of Blair either stayed at home or voted LibDem.<BR/><BR/>I don't deny Iain's contention that the current bunch of successful Conservative Parties in the Anglosphere did so by appealing outside their traditional support base, but I'll wager a pound to a pinch of poo they didn't alienate that same base either.<BR/><BR/>The Australians, the Canadians and the Americans managed to keep their traditional supporters on side AND win new voters.<BR/><BR/>If the Tory party is ever to get back into office and undo the damage done to Britain by Blair, sitting around waiting for him to make one mistake too many is not a strategy for success. Dave and the Cameroon Klatch need to find policies that will both draw in new supporters and keep the old ones on side and voting. <BR/><BR/>The last British Conservative leader to manage that was Mrs Thatcher. Maybe old style Thatcherism isn't the way to go nowadays, but I'd suggest that neither is Dave's touchy feely tree hugging.The Remittance Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13104149259707414863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153242542527504442006-07-18T18:09:00.000+01:002006-07-18T18:09:00.000+01:00Now wake up all of you. Over twenty-five years of ...Now wake up all of you. <BR/>Over twenty-five years of uninterrupted Thatcherism have destroyed public faith in the party system. Do you really think the ordinary punter cannot see DC's new populism is a pale copy of Blair's "hey, call me Tony" posturing. And let's face it, neither of them actually has a set of policies. Was it Disraeli who said "there are no principles only expedients? Well the public has caught on at last.<BR/>Forget the 3 or 4% of Consetrvative voters who might go to UKIP if they live long enough, worry about the 30 or 40% who might go Lib Dem, Green or None Of The Above.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153241757822201342006-07-18T17:55:00.000+01:002006-07-18T17:55:00.000+01:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153240816007756512006-07-18T17:40:00.000+01:002006-07-18T17:40:00.000+01:00"Today's Yorkshire Post reports that David Cameron..."Today's Yorkshire Post reports that David Cameron believes that Tory fortunes in the north are still blighted by "difficult decisions that had to be taken... in the 1980s" - particularly with regard to the mining industry. Speaking to a lunch of regional political editors the Tory leader admitted that the party had still got a lot more to do to win back northern seats. "These things take time," he said.<BR/><BR/>If I remember correctly the Miners Strike took place in 1984. The Tories were still in power in 1997,<BR/>which I feel rather disproves Cameron's theory about northern seats; or was it not till 1997 that the miners finally fell in and realised what had happened in 1984 and so decided to make Major responsible. Another case of the Tories fooling themselves just as with their denial of the effect of the EU and immigration on voters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1153239648698980632006-07-18T17:20:00.000+01:002006-07-18T17:20:00.000+01:00"I've been sitting on it for days gathering eviden..."I've been sitting on it for days gathering evidence." - Gary Elsby<BR/><BR/>Why don't you just go to the papers then Gary?Chris Palmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17270498803593841764noreply@blogger.com