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Tuesday, January 26, 2010
The Ken & Mandy Show on C4 News
Ken Clarke and Peter Mandelson have appeared together for the first time - and I suspect the last - on Channel 4 News. I think it is safe to say that Ken wiped the floor with Mandelson. Watch and enjoy. The full interview will be on tonight's Channel 4 News.
62 comments:
Marky W
said...
Have to disagree with 'wiped the floor', although Mandy was rogered from the start with those quotes from Broon and the Badger. Good stuff though.
Mr Mandelson spent the entire interview telling Clarke what Clarke thought, and pushing the party lie about some sort of division between Clarke and Osborne.
There must have been some flying Nokias in the bunker this morning when the growth number was so poor - or the ministers would be out trying to convince us that the one-eyed Scottish idiot's policies were right all along.
I have never seen a better case for putting competing interviewees in separate soundproofed boxes and turning their microphones on alternately. I propose that we should do this with all political interviewees, until they learn some manners.
When the snowman turns on Mandy you know the cause is almost lost. I dont have a lot of time for Clarke but he does have intellect I am afraid that, not for the first time, Mandy is shown as a third rate imtellect posing.
How you can say that KC got the better of Lord M is beyond me... Lord M did not let him get a word in, the presenter asked the tough questions and Lord M answered evaded/answered. Iain you are seeing something that was not there, many candidates (are you one yet?) tend to suffer from delusions of victory, is this just an emanation of said?
Can't say I agree with you that KC wiped the floor with Lord Whatsit, but only because the latter was VERY rude and kept interrupting. No interventions by Snow. Obvious that Labour tactic is to portray Osborne as a lone voice in cutting spend this year.
Gosh, Ken Clarke is good. He really has the gravitas and style needed in this situation - and also he talks a lot of sense. Although, to be fair to him, Mandy is stuck on a ship of fools...
Entertaining television but to suggest Clarke wiped the floor with Mandelson is ridiculous. Clarke doesn't even agree with the policy of Osborne, that's why Mandelson had to chivvy him along. Mandelson was as smooth as ever, Clarke was good but stymied by his own party, and Jon Snow was penetrative.
But Iain, you must stop being so tribal in your support for the all things Tory.
Wonder why Snow didn't opt for a Paxman/Howard style and get Mandy to answer the questions he clearly didn't want to or have the answer to.
You should listen to Ken, Mandy - rather than interrupt him, after all you followed his fiscal rules for the first two years of New Labour - it was downhill from then on - wasn't it?
Wiped the floor with him! Take your blue-tinted specs off Iain...
I can't believe that Ken Clarke didn't really land a proper punch on the slippery Mandy. It reminded me of Cassius Clay dancing round some tired, old, out-of-condition bruiser.
Mandelson wouldn't let Clarke get a word in, managed to give anyone who wasn't following too closely the impression that Clarke and Osborne disagree, and was allowed to talk by Snow while Clarke was always interrupted after a few seconds.
It seems neither understand there is no industry left and innovators are being starve by city and banking folk who they both consider their chums. We really do need a Military coup.
I must have been watching the wrong videos. Mandy asserted himself better, doing 60+% of the talking, ignoring questions asked of him, and successfully portraying Tory policies as something they are not. None of the above are honourable, but very successful in the TV studio.
well done Mandy for fighting so well when you don't actually have anything to say!
Ken Clarke was unusually weak I thought and allowed Mandelson free reign to unload his usual interview tricks of constant interruption, disruptive noises, and general spoiling.
Mandelson made an absolute prat of himself. He really should watch the interview back and see how rude, disruptive and evesive he was on his own questions because that's how most viewers must have seen it. He thinks he's so clever, when in fact he comes over like a complete dickhead.
Mandelson had the temerity to say that hard times lie ahead. Somehow I doubt that he will be feeling any of that pain himself will he? Cheeky bastard...
What is amazing about Mandy is that his only skill is to constantly talk over presenters and other panelists in an attempt to blot out any valid point that exposes his total lack of conviction and honesty. He is clearly in it for himself at all costs. Lets see how quick he is to jump on the vote for me as leader campaign milliseconds after Gordon buffoon resigns in shame. Its is amazing how the labour government is trying to take credit for spending billions of pounds of money we dont have in a manic expansion of the state in order to keep unemployment down. They didnt tell you the state employed an additional 10,000 people in the last quarter did they on inflated pay and pensions.
clarke was not allowed to speak by mandleson, snow was rubbish as usual.
the simple truth is the economy is in dire straits and radical measures must be taken. the key point in the interview is interest rates (clarke), which will be forced up in the markets if there are no credible plans to cut spending.
considering that tax revenues and spending is out of line by £178 bn per annum, and that tax revenue will not recover for at least 12 - 18 months, spending must fall by something like £120 bn at a minimum.
total government debt is over £2 tn (including off balance and future items). if interest rates go up, we will forever be stuck in a debt trap - and be forced to cut even further. currently, there are around £60 bn p.a. of easy cuts - international aid, id cards, government advertising, government funded training schemes (google the company a4e), pfi deals, public sector pay cuts, public sector pensions reform, general government wastage.
after that, harder cuts come. these may not be necessary if red tape and excessive taxation (national insurance is key here) is sensibly reformed. costs such as those related to global warming, health and safety, employment, general compliance and the tax code in general must be reduced. the harder cuts (which must eventually come) are reducing benefit payments, reforming the nhs, reducing police spending and reforming the demands people expect from the state.
we also need a slight rise in interest rates (to 1%) to a) strengthen the currency and prevent inflation (up 12% year on year - due to the cost of imports) and b) pre - empt a rise forced by the markets and or a currency crisis.
clarke knows this, as does mandleson, the only difference is that mandleson is lying about what needs to happen, whilst clarke is telling the truth. whoever believes and votes labour has damned us all.
How can you think Ken was weak and then say Mandy made a prat of himself? The reason Mandy looked a prat was because Ken let him talk, and talk, and talk. It was a bit like in Frost/Nixon, where Nixon goes on and on, never letting the interviewer back in - except Mandy made a prat of himself, in contrast to Nixon.
Perhaps to political wonks Ken looked weak, but I think to general public he looked like someone being rudely interrupted. I was reminded in Mandy of someothing said by our PM recently, the more he talks the less he says.
Snow was disgraceful. Failed totally to control the debate, impartially or otherwise. Setting aside his obvious bias, the fact that he allowed Clarke and Mandelson to spend so much time talking over each other meant that neither point of view was heard.
A useless discussion which showed only two things - Clarke can still do rough and tumble, Mandelson is in no way capable of putting forward a coherent description of his government's policies.
Clarke showed why he should be the Tory leader. Masterful. In full possession of all the arguments, totally zorroed the useless Mandleson-who is far better whispersing nonsense from behind the scenes! Mandleson's hair dye was pretty though!
I have to agree with most of the posters here. Ken Clarke couldn't get a word in edgewise. Mandelson knows they are in for a hiding at the election so he uses all his dark arts to obfuscate and disrupt. I think most people can see through him now though. His days of wispering poison are coming to an end.
Had I been sitting where Ken Clarke was I do not think I could have stopped myself punching that imbecile crook Mandy. What was Snow doing allowing the idiot to dribble his insulting bilge overe everything Ken tried to say/
New Labour the friend of the Private Sector ...can he really be allowed to get away with that ?I can only imagine that Snow is becoming senile , he seemed to have no grip on the subject at all
You must have been watching a different couple of clips Iain! No floor wiping at all - indeed, if anything was damaging Mandy it was his own meandering answers!
Though fair play to Ken... the way Mandy kept going 'But you agree with me' and pawing his arm, he must have tempted to lamp him.
Osborne wants to remove Capital Allowances which Mandelson does not?? Perhaps he ought to read the Budgets for the last few years (not decades but try the last one in isolation) and see what the one-eyed Labour Chancellor has done to IBAs and other Capital Allowances that increase the Corporation Tax take to the Exchequer. And if you have an interviewer with no business tax knowledge Mandelson gets away with another load of lies.
Man in a Shed said: "Again you see standard Labour interview style:
Lie like there's no tomorrow and then interupt your opposite number every 2 seconds ( even when they haven't done this to you ).
All Labour types do this. They don't want debate and the public to understand what is going on. They are just socialist thugs and anti-democratic.
January 26, 2010 9:04 PM"
This. Absolutely spot on - it's deliberate. But it doesn't matter. 1) Nobody except Labour leaning political junkies watch Snow's pathetic attempt at a news programme. 2) For neutral voters, the body language was a total giveaway, Mandelson just looked like a crooked huckster frightened to give Clarke his say, and Clarke looked like the avuncular, experienced man who actually knows what he is talking about. Mandelson looked desperate.
On the issues, figures released yesterday showed government revenues in April-December 2009 down £30 billion on 2008. Darling's target for revenues in the PBR was to get the same as 2008. Impossible.
A £40 billion shortfall is likely. He must have known this as he delivered the PBR.
Politics is all words and no figures.
Money is all figures. No words needed.
Revenues. April 2008. £606 billion April 2009. £496 billion April 2010 £455 billion(e)
Spending
This is the real curiosity. December showed a drop in spending of £60 billion on the PBR projections, due to some shifty footwork (accounting adjustments).
Labour are preparing a Budget which will claim that the borrowing requirement is down £20 billion, even though revenues are down £40 billion.
Mandy didn't shut up - which stopped Clarke landing any blows.
Labour's strategy is to talk gob-shite at 1'000 miles per hour and drown out reality.
This tactic means that floating voters only will hear two arseholes jabbering on and any clarity of thought or flirtation with the truth is completely lost.
Ken did not wipe the floor with Mandy. Mandy self destructed. He was slimy sinister and oozed insincerity. In fact, now I come to think of it he was like a cross between the snake Kaa in the Jungle Book and Uriah Heep in David Copperfield. If I had been Ken Clarke I would have run screaming from the studio, jumped into a shower and burnt all my clothes lest he infected me. On that performance I hope Mandy fronts up the Labour Party election campaign. He'll terrify the voters into voting Tory
I don't agree with "wiped the floor at all". Ken was of course right & reasonable but that doesn't cut it.
Firstly John Snow interrupted Ken a few seconds into his first answer after giving Mandy full time & Ken was interrupted reapeatedly thereafter. Second the camera was placed on Mandy's side putting him in the foreground & Ken in the background throughout. Both of these are largely broadcaster bias.
Mandy had the best single line - "the real heroes of the recession are the small businesses that have cut costs" which Ken could & should have countered by agreeing & pointing out that this has been negated by government massively expanding its & everybody else's costs - Ken did get in the fact that government is now above 50% of the economy - his best point. Mandy also got away with calling Labour spending "investment" when it is no such thing, merely running costs. He even then reversed himself saying the high spending is needed to stop public employees starving which shows he knows "investment" is a lie.
The anti-Labour case is so overwhelming that only somebody as slippery as Mandy, helped by the broadcaster, could get away with this against as sensible a fellow as Ken.
My guess is that Mandy knows perfectly well that we desoerately need real investment & that business is far & away better at doing it than government - which is all the Tories need to say.
As usual on C4 SadOldLefty Snow failed completely to get anything useful out of his interviewees. The whole thing was a disorganised shouting match with half of Ken's comments drowned out by Lord Meddlesome's interruptions and rude comments. I knew SadOldLefty wouldnt let it be a fair contest as he has never given a Tory speaker a levelplaying field but to show no ability to control Meddlesome made me wonder what C4 pay him for.
However what I did hear of Ken's replies seemed to be good solid stuff and made Meddlesome look as shallow as he really is.
Let's hope SadOldLefty has no part to play in the party leaders debates (if they ever happen)
" Man in a Shed said... Again you see standard Labour interview style:
Lie like there's no tomorrow and then interupt your opposite number every 2 seconds ( even when they haven't done this to you ).
All Labour types do this. They don't want debate and the public to understand what is going on. They are just socialist thugs and anti-democratic."
Completely agree with this. Woolas was on Daily Politics just now doing exactly the same thing. Wittering on in a 'throw enough words at the question and maybe some of them will stick and sound half-way intelligent' way as ever.
Why can't presenters control these interviews? At least Andrew Neil had the sense to shut him up today...
"Despite his loyalty to the party leadership, he is not afraid to put forward his own ideas. The Government should, he says, consider cutting VAT to 15 per cent in the Pre-Budget Report on Monday - an idea that is certainly not Tory party policy. “If it's possible to afford a fiscal stimulus I would go for VAT because the only case for a fiscal stimulus is to stimulate spending and consumer demand, so the tax on spending is the one to go for. But it should be temporary.”
Hardly "wiped the floor". Ken couldn't get a word in edgeways. Not that Mandy said anything of significance, other than some sort of coded defence of continuation of PFI and large-scale government support of bloated contractor companies, which is what he was talking about with all that blather about "continued public investment".
One quite literally despairs about the future of Britain when observing such clownish nonsense from a man who is supposed to be the PM's top advisor and a leader in the EU. Mandleson is a political faker and joker first and foremost - all of his supposed "expertise" is so much fluff.
Ken Clarke, when he is allowed to speak, makes far more sense if he has time to build arguments. He would be a much better chancellor than Osborne and would inspire more confidence in both business and the voters. Shame he isn't the shadow chancellor really. Maybe Cameron will see the light at some point.
62 comments:
Have to disagree with 'wiped the floor', although Mandy was rogered from the start with those quotes from Broon and the Badger. Good stuff though.
Mr Mandelson spent the entire interview telling Clarke what Clarke thought, and pushing the party lie about some sort of division between Clarke and Osborne.
There must have been some flying Nokias in the bunker this morning when the growth number was so poor - or the ministers would be out trying to convince us that the one-eyed Scottish idiot's policies were right all along.
it shows what a bunch of liars and shysters labour are.
mandelson is sitting there on tv trying to tell people what ken clarke thinks with ken clarke sitting there completely disagreeing!
it reminds of of comical ali in the gulf war. "what US troops?"
since when has growth not been a yardstick????
I have never seen a better case for putting competing interviewees in separate soundproofed boxes and turning their microphones on alternately. I propose that we should do this with all political interviewees, until they learn some manners.
When the snowman turns on Mandy you know the cause is almost lost. I dont have a lot of time for Clarke but he does have intellect I am afraid that, not for the first time, Mandy is shown as a third rate imtellect posing.
How you can say that KC got the better of Lord M is beyond me... Lord M did not let him get a word in, the presenter asked the tough questions and Lord M answered evaded/answered. Iain you are seeing something that was not there, many candidates (are you one yet?) tend to suffer from delusions of victory, is this just an emanation of said?
Can't say I agree with you that KC wiped the floor with Lord Whatsit, but only because the latter was VERY rude and kept interrupting. No interventions by Snow.
Obvious that Labour tactic is to portray Osborne as a lone voice in cutting spend this year.
check out the second video, 10 to 20 seconds in
Ken: ... we have the biggest, fastest rising debt
Mandy: Who cares?
what a chump
Mandy is a truly ignorant git. He wouldn't let Ken Clarke get a word in without Mandy talking over him.
Gosh, Ken Clarke is good. He really has the gravitas and style needed in this situation - and also he talks a lot of sense.
Although, to be fair to him, Mandy is stuck on a ship of fools...
Mandy did very well countering clarks bluster.
The conservatives are still getting away with having no policies weeks before the Election is called.
The only policy the Tories have is to give as little away before the election.
I fail to see any difference between these two men.
Entertaining television but to suggest Clarke wiped the floor with Mandelson is ridiculous. Clarke doesn't even agree with the policy of Osborne, that's why Mandelson had to chivvy him along. Mandelson was as smooth as ever, Clarke was good but stymied by his own party, and Jon Snow was penetrative.
But Iain, you must stop being so tribal in your support for the all things Tory.
Mandy behaves as if he is the one in opposition.
Wonder why Snow didn't opt for a Paxman/Howard style and get Mandy to answer the questions he clearly didn't want to or have the answer to.
You should listen to Ken, Mandy - rather than interrupt him, after all you followed his fiscal rules for the first two years of New Labour - it was downhill from then on - wasn't it?
Only Clarke can get us out of this. Why is he not Shadow Chancellor?
Peter Mandelson - a study in evil.
Evict him by any means,fair or foul.
Like a piece of excrement you may step in on a pavement,he needs to be wiped away finally and once and for all.
Herein lies the problem - Clarke can fight and fight tough.
Cameron makes lots of noise but has no real sweat and tears,no muscle.
The country needs a man or woman of real grit and determination.
Margaret Thatcher was one of them and the country needs another one to sort this mess out.
Cameron is not that person.
Clarke wanted a vat cut,looks like he is back-tracking.
mandy shafted ken for sure.
What is Mandy on? Private sector growth? Then why on earth are they raising national insurance?
And isn't he very rude - always talking over Ken.
What a ghastly man.
How did resignations, especially multiple ones become temporary affairs? Why is that reptile still in our lives?
Wiped the floor with him! Take your blue-tinted specs off Iain...
I can't believe that Ken Clarke didn't really land a proper punch on the slippery Mandy. It reminded me of Cassius Clay dancing round some tired, old, out-of-condition bruiser.
Didn't notice any floor wiping.
Mandelson wouldn't let Clarke get a word in, managed to give anyone who wasn't following too closely the impression that Clarke and Osborne disagree, and was allowed to talk by Snow while Clarke was always interrupted after a few seconds.
It seems neither understand there is no industry left and innovators are being starve by city and banking folk who they both consider their chums.
We really do need a Military coup.
Why did Ken agree to go on and lie about calling for VAT cuts? Is he being blackmailed?
Wiped the floor? You are funny sometimes.
I must have been watching the wrong videos. Mandy asserted himself better, doing 60+% of the talking, ignoring questions asked of him, and successfully portraying Tory policies as something they are not. None of the above are honourable, but very successful in the TV studio.
well done Mandy for fighting so well when you don't actually have anything to say!
Mandy has an obsession with George Osborne--he mentioned his name half a dozen times; is there some underlying erotic fixation here.
Where is Mandy the Prince of Darkness? All I saw was Mandy the Mealy-Mouthed Cretin who could barely hold himself together in front of the cameras.
Ken Clarke was unusually weak I thought and allowed Mandelson free reign to unload his usual interview tricks of constant interruption, disruptive noises, and general spoiling.
Mandelson made an absolute prat of himself. He really should watch the interview back and see how rude, disruptive and evesive he was on his own questions because that's how most viewers must have seen it. He thinks he's so clever, when in fact he comes over like a complete dickhead.
Mandelson had the temerity to say that hard times lie ahead. Somehow I doubt that he will be feeling any of that pain himself will he? Cheeky bastard...
What is amazing about Mandy is that his only skill is to constantly talk over presenters and other panelists in an attempt to blot out any valid point that exposes his total lack of conviction and honesty. He is clearly in it for himself at all costs. Lets see how quick he is to jump on the vote for me as leader campaign milliseconds after Gordon buffoon resigns in shame. Its is amazing how the labour government is trying to take credit for spending billions of pounds of money we dont have in a manic expansion of the state in order to keep unemployment down. They didnt tell you the state employed an additional 10,000 people in the last quarter did they on inflated pay and pensions.
all these comments are mental!
clarke was not allowed to speak by mandleson, snow was rubbish as usual.
the simple truth is the economy is in dire straits and radical measures must be taken. the key point in the interview is interest rates (clarke), which will be forced up in the markets if there are no credible plans to cut spending.
considering that tax revenues and spending is out of line by £178 bn per annum, and that tax revenue will not recover for at least 12 - 18 months, spending must fall by something like £120 bn at a minimum.
total government debt is over £2 tn (including off balance and future items). if interest rates go up, we will forever be stuck in a debt trap - and be forced to cut even further. currently, there are around £60 bn p.a. of easy cuts - international aid, id cards, government advertising, government funded training schemes (google the company a4e), pfi deals, public sector pay cuts, public sector pensions reform, general government wastage.
after that, harder cuts come. these may not be necessary if red tape and excessive taxation (national insurance is key here) is sensibly reformed. costs such as those related to global warming, health and safety, employment, general compliance and the tax code in general must be reduced. the harder cuts (which must eventually come) are reducing benefit payments, reforming the nhs, reducing police spending and reforming the demands people expect from the state.
we also need a slight rise in interest rates (to 1%) to a) strengthen the currency and prevent inflation (up 12% year on year - due to the cost of imports) and b) pre - empt a rise forced by the markets and or a currency crisis.
clarke knows this, as does mandleson, the only difference is that mandleson is lying about what needs to happen, whilst clarke is telling the truth. whoever believes and votes labour has damned us all.
Mmm. I thought both were poor but Mandy just edged it as he managed to dominate the airtime. No idea what interview you were watching, Iain...
Again you see standard Labour interview style:
Lie like there's no tomorrow and then interupt your opposite number every 2 seconds ( even when they haven't done this to you ).
All Labour types do this. They don't want debate and the public to understand what is going on. They are just socialist thugs and anti-democratic.
Anon @7:55
How can you think Ken was weak and then say Mandy made a prat of himself? The reason Mandy looked a prat was because Ken let him talk, and talk, and talk. It was a bit like in Frost/Nixon, where Nixon goes on and on, never letting the interviewer back in - except Mandy made a prat of himself, in contrast to Nixon.
Perhaps to political wonks Ken looked weak, but I think to general public he looked like someone being rudely interrupted. I was reminded in Mandy of someothing said by our PM recently, the more he talks the less he says.
Snow was disgraceful. Failed totally to control the debate, impartially or otherwise. Setting aside his obvious bias, the fact that he allowed Clarke and Mandelson to spend so much time talking over each other meant that neither point of view was heard.
A useless discussion which showed only two things - Clarke can still do rough and tumble, Mandelson is in no way capable of putting forward a coherent description of his government's policies.
Clarke showed why he should be the Tory leader. Masterful. In full possession of all the arguments, totally zorroed the useless Mandleson-who is far better whispersing nonsense from behind the scenes! Mandleson's hair dye was pretty though!
I have to agree with most of the posters here. Ken Clarke couldn't get a word in edgewise. Mandelson knows they are in for a hiding at the election so he uses all his dark arts to obfuscate and disrupt. I think most people can see through him now though. His days of wispering poison are coming to an end.
Sorry to say Ken lied in this TV interview. Much as I hate Labout, detest Brown and everything they stand for I donlt want tories lying.
Ken's usual position is to sya he disagrees but follows the party line. That would have been good enough for me.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5209367.ece
@ Strapworld
"Mandleson's hair dye was pretty though..."
I'm sorry, but that looks suspiciously like a hairpiece to me.
WG
jon snow had no control over mandelson at all, he was pathetic, areally amateur preformance.
mandelson clearly cant win the argument so all he has left is to badger, interupt and obscure the argument
Had I been sitting where Ken Clarke was I do not think I could have stopped myself punching that imbecile crook Mandy. What was Snow doing allowing the idiot to dribble his insulting bilge overe everything Ken tried to say/
New Labour the friend of the Private Sector ...can he really be allowed to get away with that ?I can only imagine that Snow is becoming senile , he seemed to have no grip on the subject at all
You must have been watching a different couple of clips Iain! No floor wiping at all - indeed, if anything was damaging Mandy it was his own meandering answers!
Though fair play to Ken... the way Mandy kept going 'But you agree with me' and pawing his arm, he must have tempted to lamp him.
Paxman has asked Darling the key question - we had a structural deficit going into the recession, how can labour cut the deficit now?
Darlings answer was very weak - we were building schools and hospitals. We have a 1% increase in NI to fund NHS spending.
Darling was absolutely hopeless! And Paxman has asked his first sensible question I think in 10 years.
Osborne wants to remove Capital Allowances which Mandelson does not??
Perhaps he ought to read the Budgets for the last few years (not decades but try the last one in isolation) and see what the one-eyed Labour Chancellor has done to IBAs and other Capital Allowances that increase the Corporation Tax take to the Exchequer. And if you have an interviewer with no business tax knowledge Mandelson gets away with another load of lies.
I can see why all bods get so excited on your blog. Politics seems to draw blood from everywhere.
Did you say that you were unhappy with those who post under 'anonymous', you were going to clampdown were you not?
How many are there posting on the same thread. Styles vary, so there must be a few of them.
Man in a Shed said:
"Again you see standard Labour interview style:
Lie like there's no tomorrow and then interupt your opposite number every 2 seconds ( even when they haven't done this to you ).
All Labour types do this. They don't want debate and the public to understand what is going on. They are just socialist thugs and anti-democratic.
January 26, 2010 9:04 PM"
This. Absolutely spot on - it's deliberate. But it doesn't matter.
1) Nobody except Labour leaning political junkies watch Snow's pathetic attempt at a news programme.
2) For neutral voters, the body language was a total giveaway, Mandelson just looked like a crooked huckster frightened to give Clarke his say, and Clarke looked like the avuncular, experienced man who actually knows what he is talking about.
Mandelson looked desperate.
You have to admire Mandelson, but Ken Clarke came off better in this case.
On the issues, figures released yesterday showed government revenues in April-December 2009 down £30 billion on 2008. Darling's target for revenues in the PBR was to get the same as 2008. Impossible.
A £40 billion shortfall is likely. He must have known this as he delivered the PBR.
Politics is all words and no figures.
Money is all figures. No words needed.
Revenues.
April 2008. £606 billion
April 2009. £496 billion
April 2010 £455 billion(e)
Spending
This is the real curiosity. December showed a drop in spending of £60 billion on the PBR projections, due to some shifty footwork (accounting adjustments).
Labour are preparing a Budget which will claim that the borrowing requirement is down £20 billion, even though revenues are down £40 billion.
were you watching the same interview Iain? "wiped the floor"?! You're getting more carried away the closer we get to election time.
Wiped the floor with Mandelson?
Mandy didn't shut up - which stopped Clarke landing any blows.
Labour's strategy is to talk gob-shite at 1'000 miles per hour and drown out reality.
This tactic means that floating voters only will hear two arseholes jabbering on and any clarity of thought or flirtation with the truth is completely lost.
Sorry Iain - I agree with many here. Ken was not on his usual robust form and allowed Mandy to spoil his message.
Ken did not wipe the floor with Mandy. Mandy self destructed. He was slimy sinister and oozed insincerity.
In fact, now I come to think of it he was like a cross between the snake Kaa in the Jungle Book and Uriah Heep in David Copperfield. If I had been Ken Clarke I would have run screaming from the studio, jumped into a shower and burnt all my clothes lest he infected me.
On that performance I hope Mandy fronts up the Labour Party election campaign. He'll terrify the voters into voting Tory
I don't agree with "wiped the floor at all". Ken was of course right & reasonable but that doesn't cut it.
Firstly John Snow interrupted Ken a few seconds into his first answer after giving Mandy full time & Ken was interrupted reapeatedly thereafter. Second the camera was placed on Mandy's side putting him in the foreground & Ken in the background throughout. Both of these are largely broadcaster bias.
Mandy had the best single line - "the real heroes of the recession are the small businesses that have cut costs" which Ken could & should have countered by agreeing & pointing out that this has been negated by government massively expanding its & everybody else's costs - Ken did get in the fact that government is now above 50% of the economy - his best point. Mandy also got away with calling Labour spending "investment" when it is no such thing, merely running costs. He even then reversed himself saying the high spending is needed to stop public employees starving which shows he knows "investment" is a lie.
The anti-Labour case is so overwhelming that only somebody as slippery as Mandy, helped by the broadcaster, could get away with this against as sensible a fellow as Ken.
My guess is that Mandy knows perfectly well that we desoerately need real investment & that business is far & away better at doing it than government - which is all the Tories need to say.
I would say: poor rubbish by both, no solutions, no perspective. By no means will any of the two be able to avoid the avalache coming up, ehhh down!
As usual on C4 SadOldLefty Snow failed completely to get anything useful out of his interviewees. The whole thing was a disorganised shouting match with half of Ken's comments drowned out by Lord Meddlesome's interruptions and rude comments. I knew SadOldLefty wouldnt let it be a fair contest as he has never given a Tory speaker a levelplaying field but to show no ability to control Meddlesome made me wonder what C4 pay him for.
However what I did hear of Ken's replies seemed to be good solid stuff and made Meddlesome look as shallow as he really is.
Let's hope SadOldLefty has no part to play in the party leaders debates (if they ever happen)
" Man in a Shed said...
Again you see standard Labour interview style:
Lie like there's no tomorrow and then interupt your opposite number every 2 seconds ( even when they haven't done this to you ).
All Labour types do this. They don't want debate and the public to understand what is going on. They are just socialist thugs and anti-democratic."
Completely agree with this. Woolas was on Daily Politics just now doing exactly the same thing. Wittering on in a 'throw enough words at the question and maybe some of them will stick and sound half-way intelligent' way as ever.
Why can't presenters control these interviews? At least Andrew Neil had the sense to shut him up today...
Mandy had all the composure of *that* Channel 4 news appearance when Alistair Campbell stormed the building.
Ken didn't wipe the floor with anyone or anything - he simply didn't have to.
Crikey. Couldn't someone, Clarke, Snow, anyone, have just told Mandelson to shut up interupting while Clarke was speaking!?
I did not enjoy it. Quite the opposite. KC wasn't allowed to finish a sentence.
"Despite his loyalty to the party leadership, he is not afraid to put forward his own ideas. The Government should, he says, consider cutting VAT to 15 per cent in the Pre-Budget Report on Monday - an idea that is certainly not Tory party policy. “If it's possible to afford a fiscal stimulus I would go for VAT because the only case for a fiscal stimulus is to stimulate spending and consumer demand, so the tax on spending is the one to go for. But it should be temporary.”
Ken Clarke, Times 22/11/08
Sad to see the old bruiser reduced to this.
Hardly "wiped the floor". Ken couldn't get a word in edgeways. Not that Mandy said anything of significance, other than some sort of coded defence of continuation of PFI and large-scale government support of bloated contractor companies, which is what he was talking about with all that blather about "continued public investment".
One quite literally despairs about the future of Britain when observing such clownish nonsense from a man who is supposed to be the PM's top advisor and a leader in the EU. Mandleson is a political faker and joker first and foremost - all of his supposed "expertise" is so much fluff.
Ken Clarke, when he is allowed to speak, makes far more sense if he has time to build arguments. He would be a much better chancellor than Osborne and would inspire more confidence in both business and the voters. Shame he isn't the shadow chancellor really. Maybe Cameron will see the light at some point.
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