So not content with wanting to have the power to pillage our bodies after we die, the government now wants to insert foreign objects into us while we're alive. The Ministry of Justice is wanting to insert microchips under the skin of prisoners as an alternative to tags. It's exactly the sort of thing that tyrannical regimes wouldn't think twice of doing. You can be sure that if this sort of technology had been available to Hitler of Stalin, they would have used it on most of their populations.
Has this government completely lost sight of the concept of civil liberties? I totally understand that argument that if you are found guilty of a crime and are sentenced you lose your liberty. But wearing an electronic tag and having a chip inserted into your body are two very different things.
I hope that anyone who values the concept of individual freedom will be against this lunatic proposal.
41 comments:
I worry when the govt proposes treating people like pigeons.
So, yes, I agree.
Do you know Iain, as you have refered to before. If the Tories suggested any of this the Media
would be in uproar, but they are not. Why is this ?. is it because Labour is made up old media people before they joimed the dictatorship.
Iain you are a media person, why is it in your opinion Labour do and say what they like and if the Tories did half of it there would be outrage. Why is it. ?
I also support the freedom of the individual, particularly the freedom of the law-abiding majority to live in peace unmolested by the activities of criminals.
This freedom of the majority should take precedence over the rights of the offenders in society, even if they have paid their dues via a term in jail.
Personally I'd like to see ex-offenders tagged for much longer than they are at present.
The problem is that offenders released on licence often tamper with tags. If they persistently do this, I think it's fine for the authorities to consider other measures that might be more tamper-proof.
FFS can somebody please move 1984 back into the fiction section of the Commons Library?
Why dont they suggest tattooing and sending us to camps. We are just 1 step away now from the horrors of what happened in Europe in the 1930's and 1940's
@ mike h:
You'd support the chipping of a clearly utterly reformed ex-prisoner like, say, Jonathan Aitken? He had, after all, broken the law, done his time in jail, and come out of prison. The same logic really applies, unless there was an unspoken qualifier in your post...
The worrying thing is that this might be a testbed for wider 'chipping' of the population as a whole.
Just WHAT exactly are Labour ministers taking? Not only are they content with the 'art of lying'; the repulsive act of swiping organs from the recently deceased; NOW 'Mad Jack' wants to implant crims with a sat-nav!!! Bloody hell, with this govt's track record on all matters computing i think this should be consigned to the bin forthwith, as the Labour Party did with their 'morals' and 'principles' many years ago.
When people offend against the laws society has laid down, they forfeit their rights as free citizens. That's why we send them to prison with a clear conscience.
White collar criminals, no.
Murderers, rapists and paedophiles, why not?
Just think, Chris Langham would beep every time he passed through security at the BBC.
I am baffled by the outrage shown on this thread.
I would make it a condition of release even after they'd served their derisory sentence. For example, those humanoids who murdered headmaster Stephen Lawrence are due out any day. (So much for taking a human life, eh?) They or their cave-dweller friends have been threatening to come for Mr Lawrence's widow next.
They need to be microchipped and their whereabouts known for the rest of their lives.
Will the next step be microchipping anyone arrested or cautioned by the police?
Last throes of a despotic government.
Convicts should have no liberties, civil or otherwise, nor any rights, human or otherwise. Why shouldn't those who ruin the lives of others be ruined for life?
Were criminals made to understand that their lives have been changed for the worse, for ever, by their own actions, our prisons might not be quite as full as they are and our streets (and homes) might be a good deal safer.
Where do you draw the line Mr Gruff? Microchipping the pensioners who are jailed because they can't afford yet another council tax increase, or maybe the evil folk who put their rubbish in the wrong type of bin? I agree the really evil scumbags should forfeit their civil liberties but the way this administration is going we will all end up as criminals as they increase the range of "offences" you can get punished for. Meanwhile the biggest crooks continue to 'govern' us.
I think the comment from the Association of Chief Police Officers is perhaps the scariest thing about the entire story:
"If we are prepared to track cars, why don't we track people?"
Takiung that to its logical extreme:
"We destroy cars when we don't want them any more, why don't we destroy people?"
Perhaps the only hope is that current sat nav systems can't be implanted under the skin and RFID needs the chip to be brought into close proximity to the reader.
I see they're getting into a right 'ol mess down there in Maidstone, calling in Ian Hislop to sort it out indeed, and they could have had you, serves 'em right!
Oh that piece on, 'body parts' please promise me you won't be offering any of your parts up for use, after all I dread to think where they've been.
Who do you think will have to resign first, Hain or Osborne, Tango or Flashman?
It's all very well chipping the scum of the Earth, but the corrupt elite running this country would end up chipping us all. Say no!
Unfortunately when you get people who say they have no objection to ID cards it gives this Labour Government the green light to start taking further liberies away. We must ensure that they are not elected for a fourth term.
Britain is already in the bottom category for personal freedom, marked in black on the Privacy International map. They are going to have to find a new colour specially for us, as we plunge headlong into the Fourth World.
Verity:
Surely you know that that such distinction cannot be reasonably made (or justified) by the state. Why should one felony get a tag/chip and another does not? Should not a white collar criminal beep when he crosses the threshold of a board-room or bank....a place where your average pedophile (sorry, American spelling makes more sense to me) is unlikely to offend?
Children chipped at birth would not get lost - or would be recovered quickly-or bodies found!
Young people would not cause criminal damage as a chip - like a mobile telephone- will tell the authorities exactly where they were at any time or date! -
Criminals would be identified quicker.
This could result in less or no crime. Utopia indeed.
Stop being reactionary you are only mad because a Labour Gvt is considering this and not a Conservative one!
Stop moaning and get behind Gordon. You know he is doing a great job dealing with the major issues of our time.
Was Logans Run the film in which everyone had a chip in their hand? When you reached a certain age your chip was deactivated and you were disposed of in an elaborate ceremony. Perhaps mad McBroon and his gang of idiots are building up to dispose of us when we cannot work to pay our taxes?
Why not go for tatoos OR barcodes - that would be cheaper.
He could even use the same number scheme used by the Nazis in the spirit of European harmonisation.
Panic not - this is a non starter under EU Human Rights legislation, and Straw knows it - just a handy way of diverting attention from the latest Hain/Osborne funding row stories.
Javelin - duh: "Why not go for tatoos OR barcodes - that would be cheaper."
Because, see, you can't determine anyone's whereabouts by activating a big tattoo scanner in the sky.
HM Stanley: "Why should one felony get a tag/chip and another does not?" Because the violent felon has committed rape, murder or has been convicted of sexual molestation of children and the chap who's been writing bad cheques has or neglecting to pay his parking fine has not? This means the violent felon is a continued threat to society yet is out there among us. He needs keeping an eye on. In the old days, the local bobbies would have done it, but they're too busy giving diversity sensitivity lessons to OAPs today.
"Should not a white collar criminal beep when he crosses the threshold of a board-room or bank...". You seem not to understand the concept.
These are violent criminals who are dangerous to the health.
"Why should not a white collar criminal beep when he crosses the threshhold of a board room or a bank ..."
1. Because he hasn't offended against anyone's physical wellbeing.
2. I cannot imagine any chairman or board of directors allowing a convicted white-collar criminal to cross its boardroom's threshhold.
"...a place where your average pedophile ... is unlikely to offend?"
Are you mad?
This is to track people who are a danger to life and limb. They won't walk around beeping. The police will be able to determine where they are at all times. Or, if they preferred, they could stay in prison for the rest of their lives.
If they're going to let them out because Britain is now such a high crime society that there aren't enough prisons to contain violent offenders, then we should be able to determine where they are at all times.
Personally, I would like to see a trial carried out to see how effective they would be.
Perhaps we could start by inserting these foreign objects into every Labour party member.
Prisoners have broken the law so I have no problem giving them chips. Ideally they'd be locked up for a goodly spell but that will never happen as there will be deafening bleats from the Yoomanrights brigade, so chips it is.
However they must be removed at full completion of sentence, except paedophiles should be tagged for life.
The only reason this is suggested is so that prisoners can be released on the streets earlier than their full sentences.
I'd prefer that more criminals were caught, convicted and imprisoned for serious offences like theft, robbery assault (physical & sexual), gun & knife crimes, sales of drugs and murder.
Catching criminals is the best deterrent, punishing them when caught the next. Then having deterred others from following them lets look at those caught and convicted.
That these criminals should serve their full sentences. That measures to reform them are undertaken and on release, with full sentence served, they are given a second chance.
There are those where the likelihood of re-offending mean that while the original crime might not have justified life sentences society remains at danger on their release. Not only paedophiles but those held for crimes committed while mentally disturbed or with non-treatable psychological conditions, some thieves, addicts and others. Not sure if micro-chips, tagging or what but while I don't like treating people like possessions there are those few we need to monitor and keep track off.
gf 03:24 "You'd support the chipping of a clearly utterly reformed ex-prisoner like, say, Jonathan Aitken? He had, after all, broken the law, done his time in jail, and come out of prison. The same logic really applies, unless there was an unspoken qualifier in your post..."
No unspoken qualifier. I understand that many crimes are caused by repeat offenders. In order to reduce this problem I'd advocate tagging or chipping for all offenders - preferably for a period equalling or double that of their original sentence - in order to enable repeat offenders to be linked to the scene of a crime.
Those who have reformed would have little to fear. The chip should not be visible to the general public so would not engender the prejudice that might be associated with a tag.
It would, no doubt, need to be implanted deep inside the body, otherwise we might see an upsurge in the number of amateur surgeons appearing within the criminal element of society :-)
Why don't we go the whole hog and get the Ludoviko technique done on ever child at age 8?
Mike H - chip removing! I hadn't thought of that! Amateur surgeons with a bottle of whisky and a sharp knife could tack a sign over their door: Take Away. Frying Tonight.
I think for the first violent offence, the chip implanted for the length of the sentence. Second offenders, chip for life.
Britain is one of the most lawless countries in the world - a dizzying descent in just 11 years. Executed intentionally by the socialists as a demoralising excerise and taking away one more point of pride British citizens had enjoyed for a long time. The unweaving of the tapestry of our society has taken many sly forms.
Wonderful stuff - I had often thought that fascism had more to do with the left dialectic. This now, along with the anti libertarian agenda flowing from this bunch of losers, starts to confirm this worry.
Why don't we have a trial run of chipping?
Let's start with chipping every single Labour MP, then we can publish exactly where they've been and what they've done every week - let's see if they think it's a good idea after that, shall we?
~icowboy~ is spot on.
Having worked for some very senior counter terrorism coppers, I know that of course they want any powers they can to catch baddies (and unwitting goodies that fit the fear).
It makes their life easier to just type in a profile/biometric ha-ha ID and bingo no need to bother with boring door to doors just a quick HOLMES Google!
Never use the ACPO position to argue for a police state - it's a self-fulling prophecy.
I prefer the 'tracker' they used in Total Recall, implanted through one's nostril. Extraction could then be a DIY jobbie. A pair of extra long-nosed pliers obtained from any B & Q store would do the trick.
Let's start by chipping every member of this New Labour Government, from unpaid PPS's and SPAds up to McCavity McBean himself, then publishing the individual satellite logs of their movements on the Internet for every citizen to see and comment on. McCavity can be the first to volunteer, closely followed by Peter Hain.
The next group to be chipped should be senior police officers, starting with Ken Jones, then Sir Ian Blair.
Hah! Lunacy! Not a chance, human rights law etc. Perhaps a madcap idea floated to make Hain's dodgy dealings seem less interesting.
I bet they don't even do this in the States!
In the United States, where the system has been piloted, the offenders themselves prefer the implant to the usual bulky ankle tag.
In which states is it being piloted, Aardvark?
I'm guessing Texas is one of them. They were first with lethal injections.
Verity, I was quoting from the article in the Mail on Sunday. I have been trying to get more information but haven’t been able to identify a particular state.
Some states, e.g. California, have actually banned compulsory implants, though the Pentagon is considering using them to replace military dog tags.
In Mexico some of the Attorney General’s staff have had them embedded so that their access to high security areas can be monitored.
Aardvark - Thanks!
I will bet Texas is one of the states.
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