tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post958045256320094192..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Tax Cuts ExplainedIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-309820797252563952007-06-12T09:51:00.000+01:002007-06-12T09:51:00.000+01:00ps With maths like that I might be tempted to say ...ps With maths like that I might be tempted to say Newmania is actually the Chancellor of the ExchequerThe Remittance Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13104149259707414863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-88066230450073183322007-06-12T09:49:00.000+01:002007-06-12T09:49:00.000+01:00I beat you to this by a couple of weeks - I claim ...I beat you to this by a couple of weeks - I claim my 5 pounds :-)The Remittance Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13104149259707414863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63958102282555665712007-06-10T23:05:00.000+01:002007-06-10T23:05:00.000+01:00hafod: What services would the Tories cut?Let's st...hafod: What services would the Tories cut?<BR/><BR/>Let's start with ID cards, and take it from there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-51521748841232533152007-06-09T14:24:00.000+01:002007-06-09T14:24:00.000+01:00Iain, I'm not disputing whether the point is valid...Iain, I'm not disputing whether the point is valid. But from his website, it seems Dr Kamerschen is keen not to be associated with this text. And by wrongly attributing it to him , it lends the text a false air of authority.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-22638292735821173282007-06-09T14:17:00.000+01:002007-06-09T14:17:00.000+01:00smaller government means fewer services, despite a...smaller government means fewer services, despite all the guff about "cutting waste". What services should the Tories cut once in power, Iain? Disability benefits, pensions, tax relief for low-paid families, single parents?<BR/><BR/>Nobody has mentioned that there is a flat rate tax in existence - VAT - for rich and poor. That's why the poor get stung the most in terms of taxation.hafodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14421821230566387790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-72571786554701116612007-06-09T12:39:00.000+01:002007-06-09T12:39:00.000+01:00Ezra, I will indeed remove the reference. But fran...Ezra, I will indeed remove the reference. But frankly I don't care who wrote it. It's the point it makes which is important.<BR/><BR/>Newmania, you are wrong. If we want small government, then lower taxes are part of that.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-65778763007405050242007-06-09T12:37:00.000+01:002007-06-09T12:37:00.000+01:00newmania [11.44 AM] No, the country has not moved ...newmania [11.44 AM] No, the country has not moved to the left. As always, people want it both ways. Much higher state spending and much lower taxes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-43789823048464081172007-06-09T11:44:00.000+01:002007-06-09T11:44:00.000+01:00Something the Conmservative Party has to understan...<B>Something the Conmservative Party has to understand is that the country has moved Left and grumble aside is very happy for the state to take on more functions than a market solution dor all set of Policies will sustain.<BR/>Tax cuts cannot be on the agenda for now .Cameron has it right</B>Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-68935942981317002422007-06-09T11:23:00.000+01:002007-06-09T11:23:00.000+01:00'Ah, but where is the line between poor and paying...'Ah, but where is the line between poor and paying tax? It's too low, there are POOR people paying far too much tax.'<BR/><BR/>But they get most of it, and then some back via tax credits. If they got rid of tax credits, then they could put the Personal Allowance up to about £10k, instead of the £5k it is at the moment and be tax neutral. (Using £10k as an example, no idea if it is that).<BR/><BR/>In my opinion, if you're on minimum wage, then you probably shouldn't be paying any tax. Get rid of the tax credit system, save millions in the admin of it all and keep the system as simple as possible. <BR/><BR/>If you're concerned about higher earners saving too much tax, then fiddle the National Insurance for higher rate tax payers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-6605542609249209652007-06-09T11:22:00.000+01:002007-06-09T11:22:00.000+01:00Anonymous said..(10.48) "In fact, they might start...Anonymous said..(10.48)<BR/><I> "In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier."<BR/><BR/>....or more likely where their daughter will get raped in broad daylight... </I><BR/><BR/>Er yes. And that couldn't possibly happen in the UK could it?Rush-is-Righthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12860467341217977185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-24197968712624693582007-06-09T10:48:00.000+01:002007-06-09T10:48:00.000+01:00"In fact, they might start drinking overseas where..."In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier."<BR/><BR/>or more likely where their daughter will get raped in broad daylight, their wife will be mugged and their son will develop raging AIDS after his forst cuple of sexual encounters - and nothing will happen because he hasn't paid the right people the right kickbacks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-59315994354810354062007-06-09T10:14:00.000+01:002007-06-09T10:14:00.000+01:00What a dreadful, convoluted mess we have got ourse...What a dreadful, convoluted mess we have got ourselves into, piling one refinement and complication onto another. Our tax system has become like the Schleswig-Holstein Question which only three men ever understood.<BR/><BR/>The remedy: flat rate tax acros the board for rich and poor alike. Then no-one would have any legitimate cause for complaint, and tax revenues would rise, as they always do when taxes on the rich are reduced.<BR/><BR/>Moreover, if we all had to pay 10%, across the board, people who fiddled their tax, whether in the boardroom or on the building site, would be held in contempt. As it is, we all turn a blind eye to tradesmen's little fiddles because we all, secretely, think we pay too much tax.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-23805678473502932902007-06-09T09:39:00.000+01:002007-06-09T09:39:00.000+01:00Iain, you should remove the credit to Dr. Kamersc...Iain, you should remove the credit to Dr. Kamerschen, he did not write this - http://davidk.myweb.uga.edu/.<BR/><BR/>Indeed, this is a bit like the time you posted that urban myth of a radio interview - http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2007/04/best-comeback-line-ever.html<BR/><BR/>Doesn't say much for the accuracy of the blogosphere, does it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-34663721272241257712007-06-08T23:32:00.000+01:002007-06-08T23:32:00.000+01:00Ah, but where is the line between poor and paying ...Ah, but where is the line between poor and paying tax? It's too low, there are POOR people paying far too much tax.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-33946051089881561682007-06-08T22:51:00.000+01:002007-06-08T22:51:00.000+01:00The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% savings...The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% savings).<BR/><BR/><BR/>The following day, the tenth, a nulab Minister, smiled to himself as he mulled over his beneficence in subsidising his friends at the pub on the previous evening. <BR/><BR/>He was still smiling as he bought his duty free drink and cigarettes in the HOC bar, totted up his tax free housing, transport and other expense claims for that year and glanced at the latest forecast of his huge tax free pension. <BR/><BR/>Flipping 'eck, he muttered to himself, only £200,000 pa pension! That won't sustain me lifestyle. Better tell Gordon to increase MP's pensions - he can always recoup it by adding another 30p tax to booze and fags.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-13021312977356066892007-06-08T22:40:00.000+01:002007-06-08T22:40:00.000+01:00Dear IainWell explainedYr obedient servant etcG EDear Iain<BR/><BR/>Well explained<BR/><BR/>Yr obedient servant etc<BR/><BR/>G EAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-22185236090802447352007-06-08T22:21:00.000+01:002007-06-08T22:21:00.000+01:00Woops, sorry I messed up my A & B examples, earlie...Woops, sorry I messed up my A & B examples, earlier, but you get can still get the gist. <BR/><BR/>In the real world Factors such as benfits, huge tax free expenses and pensions for politicans, tax avoidance schemes for the rich, tax and benefits fiddles, shifting patterns of cohabitation, the black and criminal economy all undermine much of the received wisdom on proportionate taxation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-24818878196120644292007-06-08T21:30:00.000+01:002007-06-08T21:30:00.000+01:00The story may be true in the US where US citizens ...The story may be true in the US where US citizens and resident alients are taxed on all of their worldwide income, but it doesn't really apply here, where resident aliens are only taxed on income remitted to the UK, where high earners are able to use readily available tax shelters to shelter theirn tax liability on earned income, and ewhere highly paid foreign footballers are able to divert lots of their earnings offshore as payments for "image rights".<BR/><BR/>Oh and if Ronnie Cohen isn't paying less tax than his cleaner, jhe needs a new accountant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-71663510008367429532007-06-08T18:43:00.000+01:002007-06-08T18:43:00.000+01:00This may amuse you - from the Prof's website:'Cont...This may amuse you - from the Prof's website:<BR/><BR/>'Contrary to Internet folklore, Dr. Kamerschen is NOT the author of "Tax Cuts: A Simple Lesson in Economics." Additionally, he does NOT know who wrote it.' http://davidk.myweb.uga.edu/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-28766536114864182492007-06-08T17:52:00.000+01:002007-06-08T17:52:00.000+01:00The analogy is a better example of just how the di...The analogy is a better example of just how the disproportionately high earnings of the top 10% (actually 5% but there are not twenty men in the party) of income 'earners' skews the average of all of them. The average bill of each (his income) is £10.00 but in reality the poorest four only earned about £2 - £3.00 before the minimum wage and don't earn much more than £6.00 now, and they pay tax and NI contributions on that. The poorest nine in the party cannot possibly have been able to afford quite as much beer as the richest one and have nothing to be thankful to him for. Number ten's wealth is derived from the other nine and if he has to pay a bigger bar bill he has nothing to complain about. <BR/><BR/>As we who are poor know, there is no such thing as a free beer, regardless of who is running the pub.William Gruffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02434757003701117714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-22030339033932864422007-06-08T17:49:00.000+01:002007-06-08T17:49:00.000+01:00Under Gordon's tax credits the system is as follow...Under Gordon's tax credits the system is as follows:<BR/>The poorest six pay £2 each, plus VAT plus beer tax, making a total of £3 each. All of them, however, are entitled to tax credits enabling them to 'get back' some of the money that wasn't theirs in the first place. Unfortunately, as a result of the Government's literacy improvement programme, 3 of this group are functionally illiterate and cannot fill in the 200 page form. This means that the richer half of this group (the ones that can read) actually pay less than the poorer ones. When the bar owner reduces the price the Government denounces this as an unjustified windfall and demands that the group pay the extra £20. As the rich man then dies in a dirty hospital ward from Clostrium Difficile, each poor person then has to pay £10 each (plus VAT plus beer tax) to make up the loss to the Government. This the poor people do quite happily by borrowing on their credit cards.Scary Biscuitshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03039289019338752778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-17736773851711925582007-06-08T17:45:00.000+01:002007-06-08T17:45:00.000+01:00Steven said:The poor pay the largest proportion of...Steven said:<BR/><BR/>The poor pay the largest proportion of their wages.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Here are just two of two of many real examples from a real payroll which don't support that claim:<BR/><BR/>A, works part-time for 1.75days per week:<BR/><BR/>Gross Pay: £230<BR/>Total Tax & NI: £37.68<BR/>Deductions % = 16.38%<BR/><BR/>B, works full-time for 5 days per week:<BR/><BR/>Gross Pay: £733 +<BR/>Tax & NI: 197.22 = 26.9%<BR/><BR/>Concerned about how A and partner and child managed on A's part-time pay, I offered A a full-time position. But A didn't to work full-time. So I explained to A about tax credits. <BR/><BR/>Well, the thing is, A said, I'm not supposed to be living there...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-41157626725511112692007-06-08T17:42:00.000+01:002007-06-08T17:42:00.000+01:00Anonymous said... Facile, specious and superfic...<I> Anonymous said...<BR/><BR/> Facile, specious and superficial.<BR/><BR/> If you are thick enough to believe this crap then you shouldn't be allowed to vote.<BR/><BR/> June 08, 2007 5:20 PM </I><BR/><BR/><BR/>Thank you for explaining why it is you are disenfranchised and namelessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-69688467548436522022007-06-08T17:20:00.000+01:002007-06-08T17:20:00.000+01:00Facile, specious and superficial. If you are thick...Facile, specious and superficial. <BR/><BR/>If you are thick enough to believe this crap then you shouldn't be allowed to vote.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-37583170716844847852007-06-08T17:18:00.000+01:002007-06-08T17:18:00.000+01:00Sorry - what was the story again!There is a dilemm...Sorry - what was the story again!<BR/><BR/>There is a dilemma with our tax system. <BR/><BR/>It's probably true that, as a proportion of income, the lower earners pay a high percentage of their wages in tax, but a high percentage of not very much is still not very much. And besides, they get a lot of it back through the benefits system.<BR/><BR/>But, the wealthy, who pay a smaller proportion of their income, contribute a larger amount because a little of a very great deal is actually quite a lot. Then, they are less of a drain on society because although they pay for the NHS, they rarely use it as they all have private health insurance.<BR/><BR/>The poor buggers in the middle are the ones which get my sympathy. They pay less in percentage of income than the poor, but they don;t get it topped up with endless benefits. Yet, they probably pay not a lot less in real terms than the really wealthy who earn much more.<BR/><BR/>Then, they usually have to subsidise their kids mortgage (or help with the deposit), whilst paying for their parents care-home fees, whilst saving for their own pension as well!<BR/><BR/>And then, the day in the year when you stop working for the Gordon Brown and start working for yourself is getting later and later.<BR/><BR/>The overall point is, we are ALL paying too much tax, and until people stand up and remind the social workers who run the country that it is actually our money, they will continue to steal it from us gunpoint, and waste it on their own pet projects!Scipiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06514885826616402615noreply@blogger.com