tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post920403103963071354..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Should Clegg Apologise for "Nutters" Comment?Iain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-15536564986495228932010-04-29T11:32:34.553+01:002010-04-29T11:32:34.553+01:00One of David Cameron's biggest supporters toda...One of David Cameron's biggest supporters today said:<br /><br /><i>"Gordon was angry because he is a malevolent weirdo, unable to relate people like a normal human being, unable to interpret the emotional signals and body language that we all do instinctively. He is a bonkers, not like an eccentric old aunt, but like a dangerously paranoid political psychopath."</i><br /><br />As clear an example you could find of questioning someone's mental health.<br /><br />Do you think Cameron should distance himself from comments like that, or are you just trying to point score against Clegg?Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240399669150057121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-80146838360939138732010-04-27T13:27:16.027+01:002010-04-27T13:27:16.027+01:00Ah Iain, you really don't understand do you.
...Ah Iain, you really don't understand do you. <br /><br />Saint Nick* can't be pilloried for anything. With Gordon leading his merry band of loons down the path to perdition The Blessed One represents the lefties' last hope of keeping the wicked, baby eating Tories out of office.<br /><br />If Cameron had dared call an opponent a nutter or even hinted he might be just a tad confused on the other hand......<br /><br />*Incidentally, the real Saint Nick is the patron saint of prostitutes; something I find amusingly apt given Clegg's statements re legalising brothels and his party's selection of pornographer** Anna Span to be a candidate.<br />**From the Ancient Greek, "grapho" (writing about or illustrating) and "porne" (prostitutes)***.<br />***Okay I'll stop showing off how clever I am right now.The Remittance Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13104149259707414863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-82221526635784103922010-04-27T09:45:58.153+01:002010-04-27T09:45:58.153+01:00Iain
Signing a pledge is irrelvant when it comes...Iain <br /><br />Signing a pledge is irrelvant when it comes to "good" behaviour. Is the "Big Society" going to be dependent on the signing of pledges?tory boys never grow uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11172736984147732661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-39363185203880039972010-04-26T10:05:01.771+01:002010-04-26T10:05:01.771+01:00Tory Boys, the difference is, I never signed a ple...Tory Boys, the difference is, I never signed a pledge, unlike Clegg.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-47302354097567004222010-04-26T09:44:07.640+01:002010-04-26T09:44:07.640+01:00Clive
No back pedalling whatsoever - I stand enti...Clive<br /><br />No back pedalling whatsoever - I stand entirely by my original statement - it says what it says. Mr Dale is the publisher for all of his blog - including the comments. Just as I don't expect decent newspapers to publish obnoxious letters - I expect the same standards to apply to bloggers. Mr Dale quite rightly doesn't allow swearing and racist/homophobic comments. He should not lecture Nick Clegg on breaching the undertaking to Rethink when his own domain is guilty of the same sins.<br /><br />You should also note that it is quite possible to express dispproval of many thinks without resorting to such abusive language. One thing on which I agree with Mrs Thatcher is that I know I am winning the argument when the other side resorts to such abuse.tory boys never grow uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11172736984147732661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-26167795085895743402010-04-25T07:45:33.634+01:002010-04-25T07:45:33.634+01:00Anyone who votes for Clegg and his Heterophobic, I...Anyone who votes for Clegg and his Heterophobic, Islamophilic Climate-Hoax Deniers must be nuts.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12718768880254369282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-34205065380396862512010-04-24T11:55:19.193+01:002010-04-24T11:55:19.193+01:00Perhaps I should stop calling them the LudDims her...Perhaps I should stop calling them the LudDims here in case some dim person takes offence?<br /><br />Nah.<br /><br />Iain if you want to turn your fire on the LDs you should fisk some of their policy motions rather than this petty name calling.<br /><br />http://a-place-to-stand.blogspot.com/2006/03/sld-commitment-to-blackouts-killing.html LDs opposed to extending operating times of nuclear plants<br /><br />http://a-place-to-stand.blogspot.com/2006/02/motions-at-scot-lib-dem-conference.html 2 motions on cutting the speed limit to force us all to go by bicycle<br /><br />Political correctness officers to run firms http://a-place-to-stand.blogspot.com/2005/10/encouraging-corporate-social.html<br /><br />trade to be managed by cartel committed to pushing up prices http://a-place-to-stand.blogspot.com/2005/10/fairtrade-scot-lib-dem-motion.html<br /><br />&<br /><br />Nick Clegg on Marr Show last year saying the 2 reasons to vote LD were "fairness" & windmillery http://a-place-to-stand.blogspot.com/2009_01_01_archive.htmlneil craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09157898238945726349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53394731205836704332010-04-24T11:38:56.584+01:002010-04-24T11:38:56.584+01:00That's lame, Iain. You would hate it (quite ri...That's lame, Iain. You would hate it (quite rightly) if the Lib Dems or Labour tried to make capital out of a Tory candidate in this way, but just because they want to censure free speech doesn't mean you should.<br /><br />I agree that it was undignified of Clegg to refer to politicians in such a way and some may take it as offensive to people with mental health problems (although nutter can just mean an anoraky obsessive rather than someone mentally ill), but his slip was irrelevant in the debate and not worth turning into a big deal. <br /><br />Far more important to look at the lies Lib Dems have told about Conservative policies and the holes in their own policies than one fairly tame derogatory comment.<br /><br />Why have they all been guilt-tripped into signing this pointless pledge anyway? I may dislike Labour and the Lib Dems but I wouldn't for one second suggest that they would stigmatise the mentally ill for political gain. Nor, obviously, would the Tories. You may as well sign a pledge not to swear at voters.Paddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17790241838601339104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-21789476668236953292010-04-24T10:34:26.710+01:002010-04-24T10:34:26.710+01:00I liked the image of the UKIP as being full of &qu...I liked the image of the UKIP as being full of "swivel-eyed loonies". However UKIP does not have a monopoly on such characters. Indeed I reckon that a few of the Global Warming supporters fit the description very well. The further you get from the real science, the greater the swivel rate.Grand_Inquisitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12008480897159991738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12513344328693055772010-04-24T09:30:44.502+01:002010-04-24T09:30:44.502+01:00No,Nick Clegg shouldn't apologise, unless of c...No,Nick Clegg shouldn't apologise, unless of course Mr Cameron similarly comes out and says sorry for his comments in March edition of Glamour magazine where he uses the term "loony bin"!<br /><br />Neither of the comments were aimed directly at people with a diagnosis of mental illness.<br /><br />This is more about the misuse of language. If Mr Clegg's comment had included language which was deemed as either racist or homophobic, the whole country would have been up in arms, and quite rightly so, laws have been passed to ensure that these groups are protected from stigmatising or discriminating language.<br /><br />My 'objection' to the use of the term "nutters" is purely around equality, why shouldn't people with a mental illness be afforded a similar protection from the use of inflammatory language? After all having a mental illness is not a "lifestyle choice", and the people affected, and their Carers are regularly subjected to abusive taunts.<br /><br />Dawn WillisQuinonostantehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02729460642919641582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-60079646355784453122010-04-24T03:16:21.897+01:002010-04-24T03:16:21.897+01:00People like me who are obsessed with facts and fig...People like me who are obsessed with facts and figures are often called "anoraks". Now it's likely that many people such as myself may have a mild form of Asperger's Syndrome which is itself a mild form of autism which explains the sorts of obsessive interests that we often have. But despite this it seems that the term "anorak" is still very much acceptable. It's interesting how this is the case when other words such as "nutter" are now starting to be frowned upon. It seems like double standards, but then maybe it's because so-called "anoraks" are usually not the most attractive and popular of people (I include myself in this) and therefore do not elicit much sympathy in the way that other people do. Just a though to ponder.Andy JShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15819413906544791899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-10067401418387340082010-04-24T01:00:11.671+01:002010-04-24T01:00:11.671+01:00@Unsworth, a delight indeed to exchange comments w...@Unsworth, a delight indeed to exchange comments with your good self. I am glad to see that my words have acted as a mirror held before you, allowing you to see clearly one of the multitude of "nutters" that surround us reflected therein.<br /><br />Personally I'd label "Tory boys" follow-up as a classic example of back-pedaling; of someone either lacking the courage to stand by their original statement, or someone caught out trying to use weasel words to attack our host. You takes your pick.<br /><br />Personally I see no problem with "nutter", it being a remarkably tame epithet. "f**kwit" has so much more feeling and intent to it, or maybe "f**ktard".<br /><br />The trouble with going all prissy on language is that it doesn't hide the thoughts and intentions behind the words used, and getting worked up by the use of such a tame word as "nutter" is pretty sad. A spade is a spade, a d**khead is a d**khead and someone who engages mouth before brain is indeed a nutter.<br /><br />I do draw the line at using words such as "spastic" or "mong" amongst a very short list. I've done voluntary work in the mental health sector (cue snide jibes), and those words relate to specific conditions in an extremely derogatory way. So let's tick to invective such as "brain dead d**k splash" eh?<br /><br />Iain, I think I've censored sufficiently, apologies if not.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05248641830080088359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-61848866483974914952010-04-23T23:22:57.573+01:002010-04-23T23:22:57.573+01:00There is a big difference between words like "...There is a big difference between words like "spastic" which is an specific medical diagnosis, and words such as nutter and loony whose primary meaning does not relate to a clear medical condition. <br /><br />What is offensive is to call someone who is schizophrenic, bipolar, and so on a "nutter", or a "loony", because these are treatable, medical conditions. <br /><br />We can contest the accuracy of Clegg's comments on Cameron, or Cameron's earlier comments on UKIP, but neither require an apology.Tim Leunighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08930175702683617125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63240298527609679572010-04-23T23:00:57.916+01:002010-04-23T23:00:57.916+01:00Most disappointing was DC's failure to reject ...Most disappointing was DC's failure to reject Clegg's accusations as both spurious and hypocritical - yet another opportunity missed by Cameron. <br /><br />But Iain, this really is unbelievably trivial stuff. If that 'charity' seriously believe that the word 'nutters' is unutterable because it gives a bad name to people with mental disorders then frankly they are idiots - in the medical sense of the word.OBC Newshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05199336701581647524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-18916907666200003042010-04-23T22:25:23.520+01:002010-04-23T22:25:23.520+01:00Oh fferksake.
I am outraged by this attempt to ch...Oh fferksake.<br /><br />I am outraged by this attempt to change the way people use language.<br /><br />Do you really think that 99% of the population does not, in private, use all the words that publicly they are somehow, nowadays, not supposed to use?<br /><br />I know people who work in mental health and even they call their "clients" nutters. Which is what they are. This daft attempt to promulgate the Newspeak Dictionary merely assists the drive to push a wedge between public and private reality.<br /><br />Even now, these political debates are a farce, a simulacrum. Nobody really talks like that, and this post just drives another nail in the coffin of truth.<br /><br />And if you are thinking of voting for any of the above, don't. None of the three parties represent change, they represent stagnation and moral vacuity.Wrinkled Weaselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05291551539649118631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53462930856234993892010-04-23T22:08:20.692+01:002010-04-23T22:08:20.692+01:00Does that mean we can't call Gordon Brown a ps...Does that mean we can't call Gordon Brown a psycho Cyclops?.................................https://www.blogger.com/profile/09387648864595329094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-28951455447283077232010-04-23T21:58:36.129+01:002010-04-23T21:58:36.129+01:00@ Clive
Thanks for your elucidation and the handy...@ Clive<br /><br />Thanks for your elucidation and the handy reference to my earlier pearls of wisdom. I do so enjoy your comments. They seem to confirm and emphasise that there are indeed nutters, spastics etc amongst us.<br /><br />However, see Tory boys latest - <i>"Happy to acknowledge you have not used the word"</i>. That would seem to show that he/she accepts that (my) particular interpretation of his/her original post - does it not?<br /><br />You don't like 'childish schoolyard behaviour'? How tragic to be so dour. Politics <i>is</i> very largely such behaviour - witness what goes on in Parliament virtually every day. But let us all recognise that is the game. If you seek change then you are also seeking root and branch change to society as a whole - and I might have some sympathy with that view.<br /><br />But to address the latest point - irrespective of Iain's own choice of language, I'm not convinced that he should censor comments which contain such words. If we're not careful we'll be into an arena such political correctness that it is entirely stultifying. I'd just observe that the control of language and terminology has always be a weapon of the Left. Control vocabulary and you control debate - but perhaps that is the intention.Unsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307116169498533047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-10517684301122482222010-04-23T21:44:14.194+01:002010-04-23T21:44:14.194+01:00I did wince when I heard him say it.Alistair Campb...I did wince when I heard him say it.Alistair Campbell tweeted that it was a word Clegg shouldn't use.<br />I was surprised how many people mentioned it today in work- I work in the NHS. I do think Clegg admitting it was wrong would do him some good.It's not PC, it's what mental health groups campaign about. Ther are few things mental health groups can influence, careless langugae among politicians is one of them, at leastc among the leaders debates watched by millions.It's not small beer, but some good can come of it from Clegg and for the charities campaigning.I wasn't aware of the pledge, it sounds like a good idea.Hopefulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00670115241229072789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-13856994178519627812010-04-23T21:34:44.859+01:002010-04-23T21:34:44.859+01:00As usual socialists trying to censor the use of wo...As usual socialists trying to censor the use of words.<br /><br />i believe that all socialists are spastic, nutters, mongs, , cripples, retards, genetic defectives, untermenschen, mongoloids. I don't see why I am not allowed to use these words. that's what I think of that aberrent stratum of humanity, and I hope our next generation also have use of these words, so they can also identify their enemies.john in cheshirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00179825507377423624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-23647376651237675962010-04-23T21:02:21.143+01:002010-04-23T21:02:21.143+01:00"All three party leaders have agreed with the..."All three party leaders have agreed with the charity Rethink not to use words or language that will increase stigma against people with mental health problems."<br /><br />So the objection is that the comparison is offensive to nutters?<br /><br />Fair enough.Jimmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01542633492362670045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1967234154682262962010-04-23T20:57:49.645+01:002010-04-23T20:57:49.645+01:00And then there was Dave describing UKIP "UKIP...And then there was Dave describing UKIP "UKIP is sort of a bunch of fruit cakes and loonies and closet racists mostly."<br /><br />Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-382031/Cameron-stands-UKIP-racist-jibe.html#ixzz0lxH0NdYnRoberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12146467728776928724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-67576291633038240522010-04-23T20:23:23.757+01:002010-04-23T20:23:23.757+01:00If the boot was on the other foot, Clegg and Co. w...If the boot was on the other foot, Clegg and Co. would be howling for an apology.<br /><br />So come on Nick, let's hear it.<br />...Twighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04009720896102685678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-56694532016444404182010-04-23T20:15:55.869+01:002010-04-23T20:15:55.869+01:00Just a bit like Cameroon using dastardly words lik...Just a bit like Cameroon using dastardly words like "cast iron" in the context of a vote on the EU?Goodwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16622335283524262832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-77962635959986238742010-04-23T20:08:18.720+01:002010-04-23T20:08:18.720+01:00It was also pretty poor of the BBC to use this cl...It was also pretty poor of the BBC to use this clip at the top of the 10'oclock news last night.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07456462562170192857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63100866136565319402010-04-23T20:08:18.721+01:002010-04-23T20:08:18.721+01:00Iain
Happy to acknowledge you have not used the w...Iain<br /><br />Happy to acknowledge you have not used the word - but it has appeared in comments on this blog 5times. If you can censor swearing you can do the same for such terms of abuse,tory boys never grow uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11172736984147732661noreply@blogger.com