tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post8595677897644360746..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Two Bad Polls for the ConservativesIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger85125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-83645628998818365832007-07-16T11:12:00.000+01:002007-07-16T11:12:00.000+01:00Well the EU may not be about to break up but the E...Well the EU may not be about to break up but the Euro is looking increasingly vulnerable to disintegration. The strains between north and south in the Eurozone are getting quite severe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-16351609805336038312007-07-16T09:44:00.000+01:002007-07-16T09:44:00.000+01:00Have a couple of free Zorgs on me gimp,I `ve got w...Have a couple of free Zorgs on me gimp,I `ve got work to do.Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-28365667048946397602007-07-16T08:22:00.000+01:002007-07-16T08:22:00.000+01:00I have a degree in English by the way From the Uni...<I>I have a degree in English by the way </I><BR/><BR/>From the University of Zorg, it would seem. Is it too late to demand your money back?<BR/><BR/>---<BR/><BR/>Keep 'em coming, you self-important ignoramus. This is fun.2br02bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16025022981765993983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-79789492664258274312007-07-16T06:36:00.000+01:002007-07-16T06:36:00.000+01:00Newmania:2b etc.It would be tedious and time consu...Newmania:2b etc.<BR/><I>It would be tedious and time consuming to fisk the entirety of the second farrago of nonsense this thread has been honoured to receive from your distant cosmic fastness this evening.</I> <BR/><BR/><BR/>By which you mean you do not understand ,have no idea what to say ,and dare not get into a discussion with some one who quite obviously knows a vast deal more about every subject that has thus far cropped up . You are the sort of Pooterish inadequate who thinks that adopting a tone last heard amongst Edwardian nannies is the same as wit . It is not ;and while Gordon Brown may get away with the same elephantine joke umpteen times from you it’s a sort of extended Tourettes. Are you seriously under the impression you are funny ? Your poor ,poor family <BR/><BR/>The rest of the effeminate twittering fills space to no purpose . Here`s a good rule . If you have nothing to say . Say nothing. Do you understand that ? There is probably a site somewhere for people like you to cast a fastidious eye over each other’s knitting .I recommend you go there. You are not up to politics and frankly in five minutes I have wasted more time on you than you are worth.<BR/><BR/> I have a degree in English by the way . The 2b thing struck me immediately as the sort of insipid prissiness a semi educated person might think was clever . I have not been disappointed . Self love and fragile wounded pride drip from every word . In future , please don`t bother me unless you know something about the matter in hand ( you have contributed nothing). I `m too busy being bled dry by the Brown assault on the English the South , the Private sector and the family for another parasite .Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-51530829168984106022007-07-16T03:42:00.000+01:002007-07-16T03:42:00.000+01:00Never mind, 2br02b - You're a Danish prince of a f...Never mind, 2br02b - You're a Danish prince of a fellow!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1586769404853887762007-07-16T00:19:00.000+01:002007-07-16T00:19:00.000+01:00Newmania:It would be tedious and time consuming to...Newmania:<BR/><BR/>It would be tedious and time consuming to fisk the entirety of the second farrago of nonsense this thread has been honoured to receive from your distant cosmic fastness this evening. No; tempting though that would be I shall confine myself to pointing out just one hilarious point:<BR/><BR/>In your first epistle from Zorg you tell us, <I>The tectonic plates are shifting on Europe and the break up of the Union there are opportunities everywhere</I><BR/><BR/>Now in your second epistle you inform us, <I>Look back read and understand . I am well aware the EU is not breaking up</I><BR/><BR/>Well, all I can say is that either these statements flatly contradict each other or one or the other has not been properly translated from Zorgish into English.<BR/><BR/>Similar mental gymnastics (or in plain English, blatant internal contradictions) are there for all to pick off who can be bothered to compare your two epistles.<BR/><BR/>The more important point about all this is that:<BR/><BR/>(1) Either you are attempting to be humorous, as I think you now claim is so when you tell us, <I>Didn`t I make that joke except with out the “hilarious” reference to ..a comic .</I><BR/><BR/>Unfortunately this remark does not appear to have been translated properly from Zorgish either, as it's gibberish in English,<BR/><BR/>or,<BR/><BR/>(2) You are serious, in which case it has now been made clear to all why a Tory Party inhabited by nuts like you is doomed to ultimate oblivion on the outer reaches of the Galaxy... in such places as Zorg<BR/><BR/>[BTW 1, my entire point abut paragraphs was that their absence made comprehending your pearls of wisdom so much harder for the rest of us. Now I see you have over=reacted by going to the opposite extreme. Hey ho.]<BR/><BR/>[BTW 2 <I>2b or not 2b ( Thats from Hamlet did you know ?)</I>: I take to mean you've only just found this out.]2br02bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16025022981765993983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-36895584366009118092007-07-15T22:32:00.000+01:002007-07-15T22:32:00.000+01:002b or not 2b ( Thats from Hamlet did you know ?)Th...2b or not 2b ( Thats from Hamlet did you know ?)<BR/><BR/><I>Thank you, Newmania, for your epistle from the Plant Zorg</I><BR/><BR/> Didn`t I make that joke except with out the “hilarious” reference to ..a comic . Yes I think I did. Boring as well as smug , congratulations . Oh this is going to be fun<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>Meanwhile back here on Earth, Blair and Brown have been attacked on Blair's record,</I><BR/><BR/><BR/> Yes you did the second hand gag .No , the public odium resided with Blair , talk to people who are not interested but will vote . Look around you .You will surprised at how little they associate Gordon Brown with the last ten years . Considering he has been virtually running domestic policy it’s a great trick but its working. Most people have no conception of the power Gordon Brown has wielded in the Labour Party and his responsibility for the failures of the government especially in the reform of Public Services<BR/><BR/> <BR/><I>If the economy has been performing well for 10 years, this cannot possible be despite the party in power.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes if it would have performed better , ie like every other country in the Anglo- sphere because of the growth of the world economy. Even if you do not accept this reading quite obviously in principle such a state of affairs could easily exist. Why then say something so transparently stupid ? <BR/><BR/> <I>It's a well-recognised fact that the "hangover effect" on an economy of old policies that have been changed is two years maximum.</I><BR/><BR/>By whom , your gibbering Granny ? It is clear from this remark that you are playing blind man` buff and you have missed . Allow me to explain one or two things . Economies are affected by , for example , the education of the workforce , the administrative burden placed on companies and regional market distorters . All of these work far beyond a two year period .You take that figure from a half digested understanding of the way interest rates are supposed to work through the economy, perhaps you once did an O level ? . Interest rates and economic policy are not co extensive …nit . The Labour Party did not rescind the Trade Union legislation of the Thatcher period and handed Interest rates to the B of E , These good actions have staved off the consequences of the tax and ,manage instincts they retain .Additionally the left were slow to re-establish control initially . Their error has been in increasing taxes and creating an anti business environment at a low level . They think you only need big business but a lack of entry to the market eventually turns the Supply side into a Public sector at arms length . This supply side damage is what is holding the country back and starting to run us into stagflation and low Productivity<BR/><BR/> <BR/><BR/><BR/><I>More delusions here. The EU is not breaking up, nor will it be likely to in the near future. Hate or love it, but learn to live with it: it's not going to go away.</I> <BR/><BR/>Look back read and understand . I am well aware the EU is not breaking up . It is in fact cohered now by a Constitution in all by name and Jose Mauel Barroso obligingly described it as an Empire . The Union is breaking up and as a majority in England voted for the Conservative Party at the last election the Constitutional crisis provoked by trying to rule England with Scottish votes is a glaring weakness in the Labour project. Gordon brown is well aware of this as we can see form his bizarre commitment to Britain , an entity he cares nothing for. If the EU is so popular why is that the conspirators avoid a referendum by sleight of hand that would shame a Covent Garden pick pocket ? It is of course because they know they will lose. <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><I>No, I've seen how far this government has moved to the right--and that's the heart of the Tory problem.</I><BR/><BR/>Income redistribution and more serf council housing back on the agenda , Government managed expenditure from 38 % to 45 %. Whole cities employed in the Public sector , like Newcastle ( 65%) and Glasgow …nearly all . The end of progress on property owning. I `m not sure if you are six or ninety six you seem to combine ignorance and befuddlement in inventive and bizarre new way .<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><I>Why would Labour, which increasingly looks like the natural party of government with a typical GE majority of 100+ seats* want to even consider PR, or a coalition with the LibDems or any one else for that matter?</I><BR/><BR/> Because of the looming Constitutional crisis of their minority status in England and absence from the South . New Statesman recently reported that “ labour insiders , (and they are in Brown`s pocket) were talking about ‘when’ not ‘if ‘ ,and Brown has let it be known he is considering AV by some formula . It is not likely to be other than beneficial to him now is it ? Well ? You should take an interest in politics , perhaps read something about it . Alternatively you could keep your fatuous mouth shut . You see I do allow the options .<BR/> 265 seats according to Simon Heffer is the amount the Conservatives would need to require Gordon brown to use Scottish votes to force English legislation through . This would not be possible and that fact is what guides everything he does from dividing the country into regions to considering new voting formulas . The maths are nit mine but something of the sort must be true .<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><I>“[BTW, I would not normally comment on another's grammar or spelling”</I><BR/><BR/>I cannot say how much I admire your attention to details .You just had to tick every single one of the boxes didn’t you . Why not take a day off from being prat tomorrow . you may find it invigorating ?Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-39046624766704094732007-07-15T21:24:00.000+01:002007-07-15T21:24:00.000+01:00Cameron is just way off the centre ground.I'm look...Cameron is just way off the centre ground.<BR/><BR/>I'm looking on the Conservative website under "speeches". Nothing about prison overcrowding, immigration, schools or the economy.<BR/><BR/>The strategy of sucking up to the BBC with things about "Empowering communities" and "vibrancy of our culture" haven't worked. What most people want to know is about the key subjects of the health, education, the economy and law and order.<BR/><BR/>Kinnock was polling better than this and went on to lose an election.<BR/><BR/>When the Conservatives lose, pick Fox, and I might come back to supporting them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-54692423563385177432007-07-15T21:14:00.000+01:002007-07-15T21:14:00.000+01:00"In the May 2007 local elections Conservatives won..."In the May 2007 local elections Conservatives won 911 new council seats, Labour lost 505. Let's test these polls with a general election :-) "<BR/><BR/>what amazes me about some Tories is their absolute lack of historical perspective when it comes to opinion polls and council election results. Here's a snip from the BBC from May 2000, just 12 months before the 2001 general election...<BR/><BR/>"Tony Blair's worst fears have been realised with a devastating defeat in the English local elections. <BR/><BR/>Millions of voters delivered their verdict on New Labour just days after the third anniversary of its historic 1997 general election landslide. <BR/><BR/>And the message was clear - Labour is deeply unpopular, suffering its worst performance for around 20 years. <BR/><BR/>Meanwhile the Tories made significant gains, giving William Hague ample ammunition to claim they are on the way back. <BR/><BR/> <BR/>The local results, will have wide ranging consequences for the prime minister and Labour's future. <BR/><BR/>It has been widely expected that the next general election will come in around a year's time but the local poll results may well persuade Mr Blair to hold back in the hope of a revival in his fortunes. "<BR/><BR/>Labour supporters learned after the tory massacre in 1990 that local election results mean zip....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78317023809718611312007-07-15T20:47:00.000+01:002007-07-15T20:47:00.000+01:00The Conservatives are never going to win an electi...The Conservatives are never going to win an election as long as the economy performs reasonably well. It doesn't matter who is the leader in that regard. <BR/><BR/>But even Cameron, who I find is increasingly unpopular with Tory voters, could win if the economy catches cold - and it will eventually catch cold. Therefore, if Brown has any sense he will call an election as soon as possible to retain power for another 5 years before things go pear shaped and the chance is lost. <BR/><BR/>For that reason I think it would not be in the interest of the Conservative Party to win the next election as first they would be associated with an economic downturn and secondly they would win with a leader who is not a Conservative.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-46902610176826003422007-07-15T19:43:00.000+01:002007-07-15T19:43:00.000+01:00"In the May 2007 local elections Conservatives won..."In the May 2007 local elections Conservatives won 911 new council seats, Labour lost 505. Let's test these polls with a general election :-) "<BR/><BR/>Dave, I am sure Labour supporters were saying similar things before the 1987 election and the 1992 election - when they were posting far better results than that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-58099404020487460822007-07-15T19:01:00.000+01:002007-07-15T19:01:00.000+01:00anonymous 5:20 - all is not lost yet. A week is a...anonymous 5:20 - all is not lost yet. <BR/>A week is a long time in politics and I for one shall be voting for ID cards to be scrapped.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-8973658204658641062007-07-15T19:00:00.000+01:002007-07-15T19:00:00.000+01:00Geezer - Sorry, not familiar with '50s rhetoric.Bu...Geezer - Sorry, not familiar with '50s rhetoric.<BR/><BR/>But I want my country back. I don't want to be part of the monolithic, Sovietesque EUSSR. I don't want my country to be home to a deeply repugnant "religion" and its hordes of followers.<BR/><BR/>If you are saying, Geezer, that all the British really, really want is socialism and control and the fakery of "multiculturalism" and "climate change", why bother to have a second party? Why not just the monolithic state of Soviet dreams?<BR/><BR/>The ruling classes, including Cameron, "celebrate diversity" as long as it isn't diversity of opinion.<BR/><BR/>Sorry. Not buying it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-13749382559246490282007-07-15T17:20:00.000+01:002007-07-15T17:20:00.000+01:00The Conservatives have completely blown an electio...The Conservatives have completely blown an election that was theirs to win, just as Kerry did against Bush in the US. Guess I'll have to get used to being fingerprinted like some common criminal and carrying my ID card now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-54988779551867796862007-07-15T16:34:00.000+01:002007-07-15T16:34:00.000+01:00verity said..."I am most assuredly a right-winger,...<I> verity said...<BR/>"I am most assuredly a right-winger, although you, a socialist,"</I><BR/><BR/>Men have died for lesser insults than that!<BR/><BR/>I am a right-winger, as far as the BBC would be concerned anyway, and a life-long Conservative supporter, but a realist as well. How the hell can Cameron be unpopular if he hasn't actually had the power to affect peoples lives yet and uses very friendly rhetoric. Brown and his party have given a lot of people cause to dislike them.<BR/><BR/>Verity, you're symptomatic of what has been holding the Conservatives back for a long time. Trying to win back power with very unpopular 50's empty rhetoric, will not work and has not worked.Geezerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03642135656070350953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-76331907865692694852007-07-15T16:02:00.000+01:002007-07-15T16:02:00.000+01:00"You must learn to understand that right wing want..."You must learn to understand that right wing wants to conserve freedom"<BR/><BR/>yeah .. like invading Iraq.<BR/>Yeah.. like the Poll Tax.<BR/><BR/><BR/>two really bright right wing ideas enthusiastically followed by most Conservatives at the time.<BR/><BR/>Reality check anyone?Madasafishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06109237198481955714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-38290677736374855472007-07-15T15:28:00.000+01:002007-07-15T15:28:00.000+01:00Geezer writes: "" verity said...People just don't...Geezer writes: "" verity said...<BR/>People just don't like Cameron."<BR/><BR/>"Utter nonsense! Cameron is seen as a very likeable person, by the wider electorate"<BR/><BR/>Proof, please. Figures, stats. I want to know who likes Cameron.<BR/><BR/>I am most assuredly a right-winger, although you, a socialist, clearly, are using the phrase as perjorative. If 'out of the EU', bang the gates shut to immigration and "asylum seekers" and repatriate all those without papers, shut down the BBC with extreme prejudice, privatise the NHS are right wing aspirations, I think you will find that a huge tranche of the electorate shares them.<BR/><BR/>You must learn to understand that right wing wants to conserve freedom. Left wingers want to destroy it and develop an over-mighty government. You are easily recognised as the greater spotted leftwinger.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-83190882788804833132007-07-15T15:26:00.000+01:002007-07-15T15:26:00.000+01:00Someone wrote,"The problem is that Cameron is to l...Someone wrote,<BR/><BR/>"The problem is that Cameron is to left wing. Unless the Tories are seen as a party of the right they will not win a general election."<BR/><BR/>Have you forgotten why the Tories lost the last two general elections?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-85460290112044939362007-07-15T15:23:00.000+01:002007-07-15T15:23:00.000+01:00These polls are no surprise to me. When Dave said ...These polls are no surprise to me. When Dave said that Brown should "bring it on" I wrote here that he should be careful what he wishes for.<BR/><BR/>Also here I said that the polls showing Labour support would dip under Brown were nonsense. Labour voters are so delighted to he rid of the nauseating Tony Blair that theit faith is now renewed.<BR/>The next General election will arrive before the voters discover who Brown really is.<BR/><BR/>He has just made some probably empty promises about affordable housing but NuLabour realised long ago that it was necessary to do anything - it was enough to announce it. Immediately beforehand he will announce a rapid withdrawal from Iraq. David Cameron has no ammunition to meet these with. He and his advisors have strayed pretty far from bread and butter politics in an effort to gain LibDem votes but those are only about one-sixth of the voters. The remaining five-sixths is what will count. Having Heseltine and Tebbitt rattling their sabres doesn't help - in fact Heseltine has damaged the Conservative party more than John Major ever did.<BR/><BR/>Cameron has no policy on the Thirty Year War in Afghanistan & Iraq, no policy on education except to follow Blair's academies and no answer to the riddle of tighter borders without ID cards [not a difficult one].<BR/><BR/>Osborne has few chances in Parliament but he should be writing and talking about the size of government borrowings.<BR/><BR/>The realignment of Conservative MEPs has not occurred although it was a Cameron promise when campaigning against Davis. I am not sure whether we have any identifiable EU policy at all.<BR/><BR/>Long before the knots have been worked out of the policy commission reports the GE will be on us.<BR/><BR/>None of this gives me pleasure as I feel that Cameron had it made but may have squandered his chances by unleashing half-baked spokesmen to stake out tether goat policies.<BR/><BR/>Calls for IDs or Hague to come back are silly. They had their chances and they failed utterly. The Conservative path back to power will come through Cameron or not all for another 6 years or so. It is time for him to roll up his sleeves and get tough.<BR/><BR/>VictorAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-91245439834520603072007-07-15T15:21:00.000+01:002007-07-15T15:21:00.000+01:00DrBlue says Cameron needs to stand up and make som...DrBlue says Cameron needs to stand up and make some enemies - but he cannot. He is one of them. He believes in affirmative action and tokenism in politics. There's not a breath of air between him and Trevor Phillips.<BR/><BR/>He loves the NHS because he gets all that high profile treatment for his disabled kid free on it, so to him it looks good. He hasn't the vaguest interest in immigration, which worries every indigenous Briton, but frets about "man made climate change", which every Briton, indigenous and otherwise, knows is a crock that's already past its sell-by date. He doesn't understand that the teaching "profession" in state schools has been taken over by the Trots and children are intentionally being dumbed down to be obedient drones.<BR/><BR/>Did he really think he was making a statement people wouldn't laugh at when he went out and bought a parka, rented a sled and a couple of huskies and flew to Norway? I mean, the man is a fool. He's either insulting us because he assumes we aren't very intelligent, or he's sincere, which is even worse.<BR/><BR/>David Cameron is a very bizarre choice to lead a once-great party.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-35494015785975933692007-07-15T15:17:00.000+01:002007-07-15T15:17:00.000+01:00" verity said...People just don't like Cameron."Ut...<I>" verity said...<BR/>People just don't like Cameron."</I><BR/><BR/>Utter nonsense! Cameron is seen as a very likeable person, by the wider electorate, it is his main strength. Idiot right-wingers, "don't like him" Labour astro-turfer "don't like him"<BR/>Joe Bloggs elector, does like him. Caustic right-wingers, are not likeable!Geezerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03642135656070350953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-33128664277960755812007-07-15T14:59:00.000+01:002007-07-15T14:59:00.000+01:00Hardly surprising if you look at what people are b...Hardly surprising if you look at what people are being asked to discuss on the new website "Stand Up Speak Up ". No mention of taxes,defence,Europe,immigration,its time our Londoncentric politicians hit the streets in the shires and found out what Britons really think, we feel abandoned.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-68753724779867771522007-07-15T14:45:00.000+01:002007-07-15T14:45:00.000+01:00These seem odd results.We're in an odd period of p...These seem odd results.<BR/><BR/>We're in an odd period of politics. We don't quite know why to hate Brown immediately. (Whereas we were clear we couldn't stand Blair, Mandelson, Campbell, Hewitt, Prescott, Blunkett, Granger from NPfIT et al)<BR/><BR/>Brown has got rid of a lot of Blair poison. Hence he's making new Labour look very much "under new management"<BR/><BR/>I think it's a bit smoke and mirrors myself, and if Labour policies start unravelling (as they will) then Tories will come back.<BR/><BR/>I think Cameron needs to be bolder, and make some clear enemies, and define himself against them. There's no real love for the Guardianistas, the Twaterati, the clipboarderati, the HSE inspectors and others who will flap as Cameron lays into them and their political correctness.Dr Bluehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08477211931539750338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-48504974325212198212007-07-15T13:43:00.000+01:002007-07-15T13:43:00.000+01:00I wrote: ""The sample size is way too small for th...I wrote: ""The sample size is way too small for this poll to have any meaning."<BR/><BR/>Someone anonymously quipped:<BR/>"most polls have a sample of around 1000, as does this poll."<BR/><BR/>Just because they all use meaningless samples, it doesn't mean that the polls are right, it simply means they all are meaningless. :-D<BR/><BR/>There are a number of reasons for this, it's not only the sample size, but also who is asked, when and where. Small polls like that are good for entertainment in a paper or blog, but whatever you do, don't stake any money on them being correct ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-72314715558982045182007-07-15T13:40:00.000+01:002007-07-15T13:40:00.000+01:00In the May 2007 local elections Conservatives won ...In the May <A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk_politics/2007/election_2007/default.stm" REL="nofollow">2007 local elections</A> Conservatives won 911 new council seats, Labour lost 505. <I>Let's test these polls with a general election</I> :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com