tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post8499879156191293134..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Immigration: The Subject Which Dare Not Speak Its NameIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-33330138914587780732007-10-09T08:14:00.000+01:002007-10-09T08:14:00.000+01:00Most immigration is nothing but cheap labour, ofte...Most immigration is nothing but cheap labour, often without the 'labour' bit.<BR/><BR/>Nulab's New Deal 'courses' are stuffed with non-English types being given basic English lessons at State expense, often without much effect and less interest.<BR/><BR/>Meanwhile the English cannot get jobs because employers prefer foreigners who will live squillions to the room and send most of their earnings back to their own countries.<BR/><BR/>The occasional import may get promotion because someone has to be able to communicate with the rest of the imports. So what?<BR/><BR/>You only have to read some of the posts here or at other sites like the <I>Telegraph</I> to see that the real reason for all these imports is that tories hate the English (unless they live in places like Surrey or Mayfair) just as much as do the lib/labs.<BR/><BR/>Way past the point of the lib/lab/cons getting this disaster sorted out. 'Civil conflict' is just the polite term for where we're all going.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-43905717607297684232007-10-08T15:46:00.000+01:002007-10-08T15:46:00.000+01:00verityWhat do you think the English Civil war was ...verity<BR/>What do you think the English Civil war was all about?<BR/>Have you ever heard of Calvinism?<BR/>In today's world-the Free Presbyterian Church in Northern Ireland? They would love to impose their ways on you, so no wine with your lunch and you had better get to work on all those misguided souls around you in Mexico.Manfaranghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16672026288937285646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-4761059327441022252007-10-08T15:16:00.000+01:002007-10-08T15:16:00.000+01:00Manfarang - So??I don't believe the Hugenots had a...Manfarang - So??<BR/><BR/>I don't believe the Hugenots had any backward habits like multiple wives, death to homosexuals, four male required as witnesses before a judge will believe a woman has been raped, a woman's sworn word in court formally given the credence of one-half a man's word, etc etc etc. I think I'm right in saying that neither the Hugenots or the Jews ever tried to impose their religion on the host society? I don't believe they washed brains with mandatory five- times-a-day prayers? <BR/><BR/>Do not try to establish an equivalence where there is none.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-8237007211962061762007-10-08T14:14:00.000+01:002007-10-08T14:14:00.000+01:00newmaniaMany of the English white ethnic group in ...newmania<BR/>Many of the English white ethnic group in London have Huguenot blood in their veins.<BR/>The level of New Commonwealth immigration is now at a low level.Of course there are about one million people of English descent in South Africa who could return to their homeland.Manfaranghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16672026288937285646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-20342850835318308602007-10-08T12:36:00.000+01:002007-10-08T12:36:00.000+01:00If the effects of global warming as predicted come...If the effects of global warming as predicted come about then the world is going to be short of food. The UK will need every precious acre of green land for its agriculture to produce food. It is insane therefore to stoke up the population of an already overpopulated island with the sorts of levels of immigration we are currently seeing. We should be reducing it not growing it.<BR/><BR/>As for the economic benefits of immigration these only exist to the extent that the UK education system is failing and is not producing the skilled employees we need. Immigration gives the politicians and employers the option to avoid making hard decisions and to ignore fixing the education system. To the extent that it draws in skills from abroad it is bad in that impoverishes the countries where the skilled workers originate also.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-66298033689397591132007-10-08T11:26:00.000+01:002007-10-08T11:26:00.000+01:00It had better be dealt with or the consequences wi...It had better be dealt with or the consequences will be catastrophic. In pubs non racsist people can be overheard talking of future civil conflicts. I'm not sur how serious they are or if it's just anger and frustration. Time will tell. The political class had no idea what is happening in reality and when they do I fear it will be too late. Historically the current immigration levels pose as great a threat as did the barbarion invasions of the late western Roman Empire before it fell.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-65147287776999214112007-10-08T11:19:00.000+01:002007-10-08T11:19:00.000+01:00In 20 years the English white ethnic group will re...In 20 years the English white ethnic group will reach the end of a 1000 years in which they have been the majority in England . I have invented a bus with 30 people on it that you might have got on this morning and this is the way it will look now and in 2027 assuming current rates of change. <BR/><BR/>Bus 2007 <BR/>30 people <BR/>24 White English (80%)<BR/><BR/>Bus 2027<BR/>34 People <BR/>17 White English (50%)<BR/><BR/><BR/>Bus 2047<BR/>38 people<BR/>8 White English (21%)<BR/><BR/>Show Your Working <BR/><BR/>There was a net emigration of 107000 British and a net immigration of 292000 other ethnicities last year. This was in my recent boring stat mine, and based on government figures that may well be underestimates. .In the population 560000 arrive and 380000 leave annually so there is a net migration of 180,000 but the first figure is what people are really worried about because it is the coherence and integrity of the national culture that is perceived as threatened.<BR/><BR/><BR/>The Changing Mix On The Bus Of England <BR/><BR/>Call. England a bus of 30 people . As , in the 2001 census Eighty-seven per cent of the population of England gave their ethnic origin as White British we’ll say , and this is out of date , 26 of the 30 bus travellers are ethnically English. Population is, according to the government ,rising overall at 285000 per year. And the population of England is 50,000000. I have to guess here but my guess is that practically all that rise is in England certainly Scotland has been depopulating until very recently. In bus terms then you get a new passenger every five years more or less.<BR/>By net ethnic change by immigration alone but one member of the bus ( to make it simple )changes from black to white every 4.1 years In twenty years then the bus will have 34 people on it of which 9 are now “other ethnicities” .<BR/>However this does not include the vastly different rates of population growth of ethnic minorities. In fact English are replacing themselves at the staggeringly low rate of 1.4. In twenty years then by sheer non breeding the replacement rate is about 1.52 or 76 % so the bus will actually have in twenty years.2007, 30 People of whom are 26 White English By 2027 34 People 19 of whom White English<BR/>In fact the 26 is the position at 2001 not 2007 . The change in proportion is also moderated by the assumption that population growth is all in England but I want to err on the side of caution. If we project the rate of change of proportion ( which we now know ) back and then recalculate the probable position at 2007.In 20 years the proportion of white English changes from 26/30 to 19./34 which is 86 % to 55 % or 1 and a half % per year ( in bus terms o.45) 2.7 actually so I’ll call it 2 again to err on the side of caution<BR/>So the true position roughly and as far as I can work out is as I have mentioned above <BR/>I appreciate of course that there are assumptions here but the basic figures are solid and the maths is just schoolboy stuff . I have moreover tried to drift towards the Conservative as I have gone through. I have shown the working any criticisms are easily made the final interation is aonly a bit of fun really as the peeiod is toom long .Is this a bad thing or a good thing . I would say it should be handled carefully and slowing the rate of change is clearly a sensible responseNewmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-39933563216063204982007-10-08T09:38:00.000+01:002007-10-08T09:38:00.000+01:00anonymous 9:07absolutely spot on. The reason we n...anonymous 9:07<BR/><BR/>absolutely spot on. The reason we need immigrant labour is because over successive generations whole home grown families in our society have cottoned on to the fact that they can sit at home watching the racing whilst the state (ie us taxpayers) pay for their booze and fags. (The joke is that this is of course entirely in working mans party "Labour's" interest.)<BR/><BR/>Meanwhile my son-in-law came as an immigrant 3 years ago and took a job that most British people wouldn't get out of bed for, depressing as it was he has now been promoted several times and (rather than moaning about it) is well established on the housing ladder - all paid for with earned fully taxed money. <BR/><BR/>So immigration is not in itself the whole problem what I want to hear more of (touched on in Cameron's speech) is when are we going to stop spongers (mostly British) being allowed, oe even encouraged, to take the piss out of the system? <BR/><BR/>Cameron can tackle it this way without even needing to defend the racist accusations that will be shouted every time the subject is broached. (unless by Labour members , when it is deemed reasonable)Mulliganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12445624135697167219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-45328629926329756172007-10-08T09:34:00.000+01:002007-10-08T09:34:00.000+01:00Diablo. Well, yes and no. Some migrants do leave b...Diablo. Well, yes and no. Some migrants do leave because of intolerable pressures in their homlands and they are very welcome - that is until they start slagging us off at every opportunity, like Yasmin Ali Baba or they import gun crime or deal in human sex trafficking.<BR/><BR/>oWhat has gone wrong is proper border controls and proper vetting. It is as though thousands of undesirables have just got in on the nod.<BR/><BR/>Recently I met a widowed lady in her sixties, an American National who has a distinguished academic record who entered the country legally. She is of independent means and is seeking to work here in a socially useful field. The immigration authorities have threatened her with deportation on two occasions, up to the point where they were going to load her onto a plane the next day. It took the intervention of our local MP to sort it out.<BR/><BR/>Cut to the hundreds of nasty, thieving gits who come here illegally and burden our resources. It's clear that the authorities are indeed so swamped by undesirables that they give up and instead pick on white little old ladies because they try and do it the straight way.<BR/><BR/>Our culture is being infiltrated by people who have no respect for our way of life. <BR/><BR/>In 2002, Muhammed Hussain from Blackburn, Lancashire, pleaded guilty to conspiring to defraud local elections. He won a 685 majority in the elections for Bastwell ward on Blackburn Council. <BR/><BR/>In 2005 a Judge upheld a ruling against six Birmingham Labour councillors who had been rigging postal votes.<BR/><BR/>Judge Mawrey said evidence of "massive, systematic and organised fraud" in the campaign had made a mockery of the election and ruled that not less than 1,500 votes had been cast fraudulently in the city.<BR/><BR/>He famously added,<BR/><BR/>"evidence of electoral fraud that would disgrace a banana republic" - in response to a government statement to the effect that concerns over the frauds were "scaremongering"<BR/><BR/>The evidence is overwhelming.<BR/><BR/>We cannot carry on like this. Multiculturalism has failed and we are being cheated because of our open and liberal society. Furthermore the inability of any of the main parties to deal with this is a disgrace.<BR/><BR/>Iain is right to call this the issue that "dare not speak its name".<BR/><BR/>It's time it came out of the closet and was shouted from the rooftops.Wrinkled Weaselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05291551539649118631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-74736823301156766202007-10-08T09:33:00.000+01:002007-10-08T09:33:00.000+01:00Diablo said... "but not to the extent that we fee...<B>Diablo said... </B><BR/><BR/>"but not to the extent that we feel "swamped" - yet."<BR/><BR/>Talk for yourself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-36786136566053533682007-10-08T09:07:00.000+01:002007-10-08T09:07:00.000+01:00Why do we pay people not to work when there is suc...Why do we pay people not to work when there is such demand for labour? It is not about immigration but welfare. Reform the welfare system and there will be less demand for immigrant labour. Make work more attractive by taking people on minimum and low wage sout of taxation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-82501462974136589062007-10-08T08:55:00.000+01:002007-10-08T08:55:00.000+01:00As I pointed out in another thread here, economic ...As I pointed out in another thread here, economic migration to the UK is the real problem, not true refugees. Quite simply, we should take a step, or two back and forbid anyone entering the UK unless they have a formal offer of work at a level of pay that does not undermine the jobs of the indigenous population. Only those whose skills we really need should be allowed in and only then if there are urgent needs. Finally, and most importantly we must renege on the EU agreement which allows cross border freedom. This has to be stopped and quickly. We are allowing so many former east Europeans to settle here, a good proportion of which do not not contribute anything to our society, create ghettos and overburden our social services.Vienna Woodshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03957194230173008975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-3230479794706831842007-10-08T06:53:00.000+01:002007-10-08T06:53:00.000+01:00DiabloAs any with a foreign wife knows immigration...Diablo<BR/>As any with a foreign wife knows immigration from outside the EU is controlled.This year biometric visas are required for anyone entering the UK.Manfaranghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16672026288937285646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-17042766248849611862007-10-08T06:43:00.000+01:002007-10-08T06:43:00.000+01:00Annon 09.52 shows us all just how anti democratic ...Annon 09.52 shows us all just how anti democratic and neo fascist the leftists/socialists realy are!<BR/><BR/>"its not the duty of politicians to agree with the voters and their prejudices"<BR/><BR/>So with that perverted and warped logic then why have elections at all? are the British public so ignorant and stupid that they cannot decide the issues without being told what to think and say?<BR/><BR/>The Annon post is a crystal clear picture of how the socialist/leftists view the British electorate and how they truly hate and despise ordinary people!<BR/><BR/>"the fact that the electorate are prejudiced isnt a reason to knucle down to them"<BR/><BR/>The British are perhaps the most tolerant people on earth and again you show your contempt and hatred of democracy!<BR/><BR/>Heres a simple fact for you to swallow... democracy is the will of the majority pure and simple! IF you leftists/socialists hate and distrust people so much why not be honest and come out and say that you would install a soviet system/regime instead of the free democratic open system we have now?<BR/>But that would be honest and that is the one thing you aint!<BR/><BR/>PS <BR/>We have just seen how keen you leftists are on the democratic system with the mindless destruction in Switzerland! If something doesnt go the leftists way? then they smash things up like spoilt children!<BR/>And for the record most immigrants send the bulk of their money overseas! so in fact they TAKE more than they GIVE in terms of money alone and thats not counting the services they consume!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-81848566531269410312007-10-08T06:32:00.000+01:002007-10-08T06:32:00.000+01:00What about those who have been here for donkeys's ...What about those who have been here for donkeys's years? If the Tories want to prove their seriousness, they should allow theose who have lived here for more than 10 years to work and live decently; otherwise it will sound like another electoreering spin.Skillipediahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01230563923890158440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-43553891614883720072007-10-08T02:15:00.000+01:002007-10-08T02:15:00.000+01:00Yak - Khalifa is not an informed person. She was ...Yak - Khalifa is not an informed person. She was probably born in Britain to some strict islamic family and has absolutely no idea about the rest of the world. Just what she's/he's picked up in Politically-Correct Class instead classes in World History or Economics, let's say, or Ancient Greek.<BR/><BR/>Five years is not long enough for a moratorium on immigration, given the depth of the problem caused by the islamics in our country. Chinese, Hindus, Jews don't horde chemicals to make bombs to murder our people (they win through cuisine; OK, maybe not the Jews).<BR/><BR/>I'd say it will take 10 years to return the illegals to their countries, and for us to figure out what to do with the rest of them (meaning the islamics who can't settle). France gives them money to go away, and that is not a bad idea.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-77166753471117526692007-10-08T02:12:00.000+01:002007-10-08T02:12:00.000+01:00verity (1.23pm) - I was baiting you about Mexico, ...verity (1.23pm) - I was baiting you about Mexico, if you didn't already realise!<BR/><BR/>But your response was very informative. It illustrates the diverse reasons for global population movements.<BR/><BR/>Just don't accept that the land you happen to live in has got it all right. We haven't in the UK.Ted Foanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04497077127882545545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31358707941937467812007-10-08T01:48:00.000+01:002007-10-08T01:48:00.000+01:00khalifaThe US encouraged immigration, especially i...khalifa<BR/><BR/>The US encouraged immigration, especially in the late 19th century. This was <B>legal</B> immigration. From the early 20th century until the 60s immigration was relatively low as the "melting pot" worked its magic. Laws were changed to encourage mass immigration in the 60s and, coupled with the massive <B>illegal</B> immigration from Latin America brings us to today - where parts of the country are swamped by illegals clogging the public hospitals, jails, and so on e.g. southern California. Check it out, the facts are out there.<BR/><BR/>The UK is a small country (in area), the gov't does not even know how many are here now but their effects are being felt in public services, schools, housing.<BR/><BR/>There should be a moratorium on all immigration for at least five years.Yak40https://www.blogger.com/profile/10391635243252561168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-44188316104325074962007-10-08T01:30:00.000+01:002007-10-08T01:30:00.000+01:00Wrinkled Weasel (12.24am): Fair point. Can't argue...Wrinkled Weasel (12.24am): Fair point. Can't argue with that!<BR/><BR/>But I was trying to make a general point about the effects of uncontrolled immigration into the UK. Not the incredible inhumanity of some religions that advocate beheadings, stonings and fatwas.<BR/><BR/>I am fully with you on condemning these medieval acts that are still condoned by some Islamist states. Iran is still hanging people in public for being homosexual and committing adultery, still stoning people to death, etc.<BR/><BR/>Don't confuse the questions we must ask about the level of immigration into the UK with the horrible values that some of these people use to subjugate their people. That is probably why most of them choose to leave to their own land in the first place.Ted Foanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04497077127882545545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53105708005436789132007-10-08T01:23:00.000+01:002007-10-08T01:23:00.000+01:00WW - Well said!Diabolo - No, Mexico does not rely ...WW - Well said!<BR/><BR/>Diabolo - No, Mexico does not rely on transfers from emigrants to the US to power its economy. Mexico has oil and it has NAFTA, the giant powering Mexico's economy. Go to any supermarket parking lot and take a look at those late model Japanese and American cars. You could be in the US or Canada.<BR/><BR/>And it works to everyone's advantage - including the advantage to the US and Canada that eventually, Mexico will be rich enough so young men don't have to leave their families to sneak into the US in order to support their relatives. <BR/><BR/>Let's be honest about this. The relatives are people from tiny, remote villages, mainly untouched by civilsation (they'll have a TV, though) whose whole family lives in a hut, sleeping in hammocks ...<BR/><BR/>What is more, Mexico is dealing with its own illegals, from Guatamala. Guatamala is in Central America, not North America, and is not part of NAFTA. Yet they speak the same language and they look the same and Mexico now has a problem with illegals. Many of these people use Mexico as a stop on the highway of illegal immigration, and they get through, after many attempts - the US border guards do not shoot or injure them; they just escort them in trucks back across the Rio Grande. But a lot of what reaches the US has made it through the vast expanse of Mexico from Guatamala.<BR/><BR/>Ignorant people should not not be making comments on countries they have never visited and don't understand, Diabolo, based on agenda-laden myths from elsewhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-43977609026586175782007-10-08T00:42:00.000+01:002007-10-08T00:42:00.000+01:00Diablo, everything I write is predicated on "basic...Diablo, everything I write is predicated on "basic facts", and if they sound inflammatory as you imply, they don't included such remedies as beheadings, stonings and fatwas.Wrinkled Weaselhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05291551539649118631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-57381950041365002712007-10-08T00:01:00.000+01:002007-10-08T00:01:00.000+01:00verity (11.13pm) - I refer you to my previous answ...verity (11.13pm) - I refer you to my previous answer (11.03pm).<BR/><BR/>As for khalifa's point (11.18pm)about the USA - the "greatest melting pot" in the world, well in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries perhaps - but the USA has an enormously larger landmass than our little island. And they have always controlled immigration - perhaps not as successfully as they would want. Mexico's economy, it's southern neighbour, relies on the in-flow of dollars from its (illegal) migrants.<BR/><BR/>France has about the same population as the UK but it's landmass is four times bigger than the UK's. Lot's of room for new (Brown-style) eco-towns and they already have sustainable nuclear power as their source of energy. Wouldn't it be great if they absorbed the vast majority of the projected numbers of immigrants to Europe from the Middle East and the north, east, west and south of Africa? They have got more space after all.<BR/><BR/>But no. Immigrants want to come to the UK because we pay the most benefits. I don't pretend to understand why someone would travel thousands of miles across the Middle East and Africa, through Europe just so they can live on state benefits in the UK. Perhaps we are perceived as being more tolerant than all those countries they have passed through.<BR/><BR/>But the fact remains we are a small island and we can't just keep taking more and more people into this country.<BR/><BR/>I am no UKIP supporter but I can see that their suggestion that there should be a 5-year moratorium will appeal to some people who are feeling "swamped"<BR/><BR/>Conservatives, NuLabour and LibDems watch out.Ted Foanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04497077127882545545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-86671674058594868512007-10-08T00:00:00.000+01:002007-10-08T00:00:00.000+01:00Can I just add that our very welcome and integrate...Can I just add that our very welcome and integrated Jewish, Hindu and Chinese immigrants don't seem to have any problems adjusting to our society? All are valued and respected for what they have brought to the fabric of Britain. All have contributed greatly to our wealth creation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-65541585831040227672007-10-07T23:45:00.000+01:002007-10-07T23:45:00.000+01:00khalifa - The British Isles and the continent of E...khalifa - The British Isles and the continent of Europe have been settled for two thousand years or more.<BR/><BR/>N America had a few scattered indigenous people - the figure is a possible four million over millions of square miles - who had never progressed beyond the hunter gatherer stage of evolution.<BR/><BR/>The continent was empty. As in vacant.<BR/><BR/>The British colonised them, to everyone's advantage. The Americans discovered the joys of refining petroleum and riding around without a horse, and suddenly the tribes in Oklahoma were rich beyond the dreams of European kings. British and Europeans brought the joys of poker and gambling to the continent, and tribes that own gambling casinos (on which they are forgiven taxes)in Nevada and some of the NE states are rolling in clover.<BR/><BR/>That has nothing to do with the inhabited, developed continent and ancient civilisation of Europe that goes back for over 2,000 years. Your argument is pigswill.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-197906360603119032007-10-07T23:32:00.000+01:002007-10-07T23:32:00.000+01:00Sunny, sweetie, I have never been accused of "comp...Sunny, sweetie, I have never been accused of "compassionate conservatism". This is an American political slogan, invented in a different context - not religion - in the United States by US politicians. I have a chilling feeling that you don't even understand that you are trying to import a political slogan from another environment. Or perhaps you do and thought we wouldn't notice. What's the term for "straw man" in your country? <BR/><BR/>Sunny says: "we have the amusing prospect of the right refusing to regularise the illegals already here despite knowing that over half a million people could never be deported, ...".<BR/><BR/>I'm not alone in not finding this "amusing". <BR/><BR/>We can certainly deport illegals of any race, as opposed to 'regularise' them. Arrest, van to airport, secure holding area where they have to give a swab of their DNA and have a retinal photos taken. Take off. Bye bye forever.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com