tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post8327973661180447766..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Supporting British Farmers? Waitrose is 'avin a Giraffe!Iain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-54150770419909786922007-08-28T20:19:00.000+01:002007-08-28T20:19:00.000+01:00"The belief that the “free market” is an economic ..."The belief that the “free market” is an economic regime without rules and without any state intervention is the sort of facile interpretation that New Labour has of the mechanism."<BR/><BR/>Actually you'll find many pro-free market libertarians are opposed to intervention. However, they do accept the need for rules based on the common law.<BR/><BR/>"It should NOT be an unregulated free for all where the big boys can use their muscle to force down the prices that they pay."<BR/><BR/>What is wrong with the big boys giving consumers what they want? Providing the big boys do this without state help it's perfectly free market.<BR/><BR/>"The free market depends on intervention to remain free and to ensure that there are a large number of competitors."<BR/><BR/>Er, no. Which institution is it that subsidises the national transport network thus disproportionateky benefitting big business? Which institution is it that puts up trade barriers which undermine competetiveness and thus allow big business to remain larger than it might do? Which institution is it that enforces taxes and regulations that disporportionately harm small businesses? Answer: Not the free market. A read of Gabriel Kolko's "The Triumph of Conservatism" shows how an unregulated free market in late 19th century America was leading to the undermining of the dominance of big business. Then all of a sudden the government started to enforce regulations that were supposed to restrict big business. Who backed these regulations? Big business. Who suffered? Small business...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-10526347107634624982007-08-28T20:04:00.000+01:002007-08-28T20:04:00.000+01:00"But the big supermarkets do not operate in a free..."But the big supermarkets do not operate in a free market. They use their huge power to subvert the free market of supply."<BR/><BR/>Providing this isn't done with government backing there is nothing un-free market about this - it is simply free negotiation of contract. The fact that one party is richer than the other is irrelevent, providing that wealth is obtained legitimately. That said, insofar as the government makes make life easier for supermarkets than for smaller businesses due to regulations and taxes there is certainly an un-free market.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-68027345646651798732007-08-28T17:45:00.000+01:002007-08-28T17:45:00.000+01:00People in some co-ops, some family businesses and ...People in some co-ops, some family businesses and some social enterprises exploit themselves by choosing to work for lower than their fair price. The market says they should get out but they do not.Chris Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15679067503215414300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-65254336514324270842007-08-28T14:43:00.000+01:002007-08-28T14:43:00.000+01:00Oh no, not another Vicky Ford link. Funny how her ...Oh no, not another Vicky Ford link. Funny how her potato farmer just happens to be in Lincolnshire...anything to do with a vacancy in Gratham & Stamford? Sorry for this negative string (I should be commending Vicky for such work) but her track record and campaigning style of holier than thou on all topics suggests that she is nothing more than cynical carpet-bagging wannabee MP. And we wonder why folks don't take politicians seriously...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-47666674515562986432007-08-28T13:50:00.000+01:002007-08-28T13:50:00.000+01:00Tesco and Asda - they're the ones you have to watc...Tesco and Asda - they're the ones you have to watch out for!<BR/><BR/>Waitrose (John Lewis Partnership) are a fair minded company.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-2251029137606864722007-08-28T13:49:00.000+01:002007-08-28T13:49:00.000+01:00Vile apologists for supermarkets on Radio 5 are bl...Vile apologists for supermarkets on Radio 5 are blaming the middle men. I can quite believe it. Parasitic middle men, who insert themselves in between producer and consumer in every single aspect British life are to blame for an awful lot of what's wrong with the UK. Whose got the Olympics cash? The middle men. Whose got the NHS cash? The middle men. Who's got all the education money? The middle men. Who's got the broadcasting licence fee money? The middlemen. They're the agencies, the quangoes, the consultants, the PRs, the facilitators; the wastes of space. They're the bullshitters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-76152104462348758652007-08-28T13:35:00.000+01:002007-08-28T13:35:00.000+01:00I think you mean 'Mr Royle'. Mr Royal was Segolene...I think you mean 'Mr Royle'. Mr Royal was Segolene's dadAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-43382216150556119552007-08-28T11:33:00.000+01:002007-08-28T11:33:00.000+01:00They may be far from perfect but Waitrose are a he...They may be far from perfect but Waitrose are a hell of a lot better than most supermarkets and are better at stocking and marking British food as British. There may be a long way to go, but to highligh and attack them when they are leading the way in the right direction for the real exploiters like Tesco is surely counter-productive.Edwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03562087148757634608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-39718412597413034922007-08-28T10:49:00.000+01:002007-08-28T10:49:00.000+01:00I don't feel sorry for farmers. I have had to twic...I don't feel sorry for farmers. I have had to twice reinvent my career due to a weak market. What makes them so special?<BR/><BR/>Chris Paul, how exactly does one exploit oneself? Actually, I don't want to know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53646002363440468432007-08-28T10:43:00.000+01:002007-08-28T10:43:00.000+01:00Iain,Agree that the large supermarkets are exploit...Iain,<BR/><BR/>Agree that the large supermarkets are exploiting their market position but think you should have spent a bit more time looking at Waitrose site before posting. In addition to link Colin posts (which I found within 2 minutes of search - there is also this website:<BR/>http://www.countryliving.co.uk/index.php/cat/17318<BR/><BR/>UK farmers need every bit of help they can get and if Waitrose is doing more than the rest (not hard) perhaps attacking them isn't the way to get the others to follow their lead.Tedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15932284926532855700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-77487132752471407832007-08-28T10:39:00.000+01:002007-08-28T10:39:00.000+01:00Waitrose has had a long held practice of backhauli...Waitrose has had a long held practice of backhauling; tehir lorries are rarely empty because they encourage such practices as local producers to deliver their goods to their nearest Waitrose branch, and Waitrose will then distribute their goods throughout their network, saving local farmers a great deal of money in transportation (they don't have to arrange the transportation of their produce to a Regional Distribution Centre that could be hundreds of miles away). <BR/><BR/>Waitrose also have close to a 100% payment record within a certain time (I've forgotten the exact number of days, but by comparison none of the other supermarkets come close). This benefits the smallest producers the most.<BR/><BR/>There are many other examples of good practice that have led to Waitrose being the most popular supermarket in the industry. Recently, they have installed signs noting that due to the poor weather conditions, some vegetables may exhibit some signs of flood damage (but the quality is otherwise unaffected). They are also paying more to support farmers this year.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-58276242004578457752007-08-28T10:33:00.000+01:002007-08-28T10:33:00.000+01:00Iain:How don't supermarkets operate in a free mark...Iain:<BR/>How don't supermarkets operate in a free market?<BR/>There's no monosopy. There's competition. There's no collusion (as has been found time and time again).<BR/><BR/>There is however no a free market in agriculture. Farmers are kept in business with lavish subsidies. They are encouraged to overproduce which is what causes the low prices they sell at.<BR/><BR/>You should in stead be campaigning for scrapping the CAP (which would also benefit the environment enourmously) and to making farmers stand on their own two feet.<BR/><BR/>True, some will go out of business, but that's the way things work, the inefficient go bust, the efficient or those who produce a product people want to buy do well.<BR/><BR/>So, to the extent there's no free market, its supposedly skewed in favour of farmers through the subsidy system. Of course, this doesn't work, but as a free market supporter surely you recognise why.Tristanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15395992764678278326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-22656311412760663462007-08-28T10:13:00.000+01:002007-08-28T10:13:00.000+01:00Waitrose are farmers themselves. They've got thei...Waitrose are farmers themselves. They've got their own farm and sometimes have open days when people can visit to see how their animals are cared for and their crops grown.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90184056965493851352007-08-28T09:36:00.000+01:002007-08-28T09:36:00.000+01:00Iain, I'm no apologist for Waitrose (which, incide...Iain, I'm no apologist for Waitrose (which, incidentally, is part of the John Lewis Partnership) but suggest that, in the ten minutes you spent ofn their website, you might have looked at their section on 'Responsible Sourcing' at http://www.waitrose.com/food/foodissuesandpolicies/responsiblesourcing.aspx<BR/><BR/>The power of the supermarkets has incrwased, is increasing and ought to be diminished: discuss - this is now beginning to be an old question. The free market in groceries and food has been investigated more than once by the Competition Commission and is being investigated again. But the market operates as it does because of demand pull - that is, the supermarkets supply what is demanded of them by us, the customers. And not all consumers have thesame 'demand agenda'. That's why there is room for the Tescos and Morrisons of this world to exist side by side with the Waitroses, which operate in slightly different segments of the market spectrum.If we declined to buy Tesco's cheap chicken sourced in Thailand, then Tesco would get the message and move on.<BR/><BR/>But I think one of the real and continuing difficulties in all this is the disconnection that exists in consumers' minds between the food on the supermaets' shelves and their perception of where it comes from. There was a 'survey' recently (all right, I know any PR outfit can prove anything by asking round the office and calling the outcome a 'survey') that highlighted the fact that few consumers successfully associated food with its origins, on the hoof or in the field.<BR/><BR/>It is bonkers to fly in green beans from Kenya but until we cease to buy said beans the pesky supermarkets will go on supplying them. That how the market works - and demand-pull means that we can change it. But we won't, because cheap food has been a key political issue throughhout history. Look at the French revolution and the price of a baguette.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-5887302648359364352007-08-28T08:59:00.000+01:002007-08-28T08:59:00.000+01:00Dizzy - Waitrose is part of John Lewis, I think.On...Dizzy - Waitrose is part of John Lewis, I think.<BR/><BR/>On the subject of advertising, one of the supermarkets (I forget which, I'm afraid, though it may be Waitrose) defines 'local' as sold within fifty miles of where it's produced. I haven't noticed many farms in London, I have to say. Certainly, there aren't enough to feed however many million live there.<BR/><BR/>At the risk of being controversial - and I don't know how I feel about this - would it be a good idea to let the big supermarkets run small, village shops? I'm forever hearing about the need for such shops to diversify. The shop in my home village has done so very well, now running a video rental store and organising deliveries around North Cadbury. Could access, perhaps through a franchise, to a large supermarket's logistics and variety be a means of generating more trade for these shops? As the Post Office seems to be dying a death of a thousand cuts, perhaps the financial services that supermarkets offer might also be useful?Dave Colehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14607982331690895063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-73153988045727385632007-08-28T08:46:00.000+01:002007-08-28T08:46:00.000+01:00Waitrose are the best supermarket at giving the im...Waitrose are the best supermarket at giving the impression that they are more resposible than the others.<BR/>Iain is correct it is not a free market the supermarkets have far more power than is good for them. They need to have constant scrutiny. <BR/>Waitrose only react to the market. If they were as perfect as they make out to be, just look at the ingediants of their sliced bread. If after reading you can still eat it you are a better man than me.Johnny Norfolkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900659617233793880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-37484586123809699052007-08-28T07:43:00.000+01:002007-08-28T07:43:00.000+01:00"Of course I believe in free markets. But the big ..."Of course I believe in free markets. But the big supermarkets do not operate in a free market. They use their huge power to subvert the free market of supply."<BR/><BR/>This comment is economically illiterate nonsense, Iain. Supermarkets are big boys for sure but the retail sector is certainly competitive. Please actually read the Competition Commission's report on the sector and on the Morrisons/Safeway merger.<BR/><BR/>The reason why suppliers are hard pressed is that the supermarket sector is so competitive that they squeeze supplier margins in order to lower prices to consumers. Suppliers of genuinely dominant undertakings generally do quite well as there is little impetus to put pressure on them.<BR/><BR/>The solution for farmers is to leave the market. That would increase prices as a simple function of supply and demand (and frequently does - look at milk, cheese and bread prices lately).<BR/><BR/>Don't make the mistake of deluding yourself that your argument is pro-free market. It simply isn't. By all means still advance the argument if you want that farmers need more support. But don't pretend the argument is something it isn't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-76470379798022626652007-08-28T07:30:00.000+01:002007-08-28T07:30:00.000+01:00William Sitwell (Editor of Waitrose's food mag) ha...William Sitwell (Editor of Waitrose's food mag) has just been on Breakfast, and nearly had a baby when the presenter asked him what more the retailers could do to help British Farmers. "[cough, splutter] ...I'm not a retailer..." <BR/><BR/>I'm afraid not mate, you take Waitrose's coin, you flipping well represent them. <BR/><BR/>Support your local Butcher is what I'd recommend; a fair price for a quality product.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-76347403710733896802007-08-28T07:15:00.000+01:002007-08-28T07:15:00.000+01:00"Waitrose, for all I know, may have a better recor...<I>"Waitrose, for all I know, may have a better record than the others..."</I><BR/><BR/>Well, precisely. You've admitted you <B>don't</B> know. <BR/><BR/>So either do some research and find out, or just admit it's the <B>advertisement</B> you object to, and not the supermarket itself.<BR/><BR/>I can't stand the one for 'Shiela's Wheels' but it wouldn't lead me to blanket-criticise the automobile insurance industry!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1702027403888863872007-08-28T07:01:00.000+01:002007-08-28T07:01:00.000+01:00Waitrose is a slightly different company to Tesco ...Waitrose is a slightly different company to Tesco and Sainsbury in fairness. Every member of staff is, I believe, considered a partner in the business, same as John Lewis. This is just an observation incidentally.<BR/><BR/>In relation to people saying that this is "market forces" and the reality of "free markets" that's a load of tosh because the market is not free. CAP makes sure of that, and the tariffs barriers that stop the developing world competing add to it.<BR/><BR/>Farmers in the UK should think themselves lucky. If there was a real free market and not EU protectionism they'd have to seriously compete.dizzyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04250325010662356883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12355569613421056482007-08-28T01:40:00.000+01:002007-08-28T01:40:00.000+01:00The small suppliers need to COMBINE and stick it t...The small suppliers need to COMBINE and stick it to the man. That's what we're all saying. Cartels and monopolies are the aim of capitalists, bringing excess profits and big cheesy grins.<BR/><BR/>Whether this is at the expense of the worker or the small supplier it is Labour which oppose these market abuses. That's why people are surprised at where you're going with this.<BR/><BR/>COMBINATION - UNIONS - CO-OPERATIVES - COURAGE MON BRAVES - STICK IT TO THEM<BR/><BR/>THEM being your lot! Apart from Boff.Chris Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15679067503215414300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-60478242595841949252007-08-28T01:00:00.000+01:002007-08-28T01:00:00.000+01:00Aren't the supermarkets awful and Waitrose in part...Aren't the supermarkets awful and Waitrose in particular? I do so hope that this bizarre left/right anti-supermarket pro-supplier alliance works - because then I will have to pay more for my groceries. And I so want to do that, I really do - I often think "gosh it would be lovely to pay more than the price that a free market has arrived at as the right price". As I am sure do millions of other shoppers. <BR/><BR/>Or maybe they don't. Maybe, just maybe, tens of millions of people in this country are very happy with low prices and would be incredibly hacked off if the Guardian reading/Cameron loving classes made themselves feel better by driving up prices for consumers - just so farmers can get a new Range Rover every three years rather than having to wait four.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-26914505915191596572007-08-28T00:59:00.000+01:002007-08-28T00:59:00.000+01:00Things like this are exactly why I DON'T believe i...Things like this are exactly why I DON'T believe in a "free" market. Why do you believe in such a thing?<BR/><BR/>Instead, I believe in the conservation or restoration of such good things as national self-government (the only basis for international co-operation, and including the United Kingdom as greater than the sum of its parts), local variation, historical consciousness, family life, the whole Biblical and Classical patrimony of the West, agriculture, manufacturing, small business, close-knit communities, law and order, civil liberties, academic standards, all forms of art, mass political participation within a constitutional framework, and respect for the absolute sanctity of each individual human life from the point of fertilisation to the point of natural death<BR/><BR/>Each and all of these, "free" market capitalism corrodes to nought, both directly and by driving despairing millions into the arms of equally corrosive Jacobinism, Marxism, anarchism or Fascism.<BR/><BR/>Therefore, I believe in the universal and comprehensive Welfare State (including, for example, farm subsidies), and in the strong statutory and other (including trade union) protection of workers, consumers, communities and the environment, the former delivered by the partnership between a strong Parliament and strong local government, the whole paid for by progressive taxation, and all these good things underwritten by full employment.<BR/><BR/>A country’s sovereignty, liberty, democracy and identity are all eroded at least as much by that country’s heavy reliance on imported goods, rather than on a domestic manufacturing base, as by any other factor.<BR/><BR/>The same is true if a country is heavily dependent on imports in order to feed her people, instead of maintaining a thriving agricultural sector, itself characteristically a bastion of strong family ties, and therefore also of strong community spirit.<BR/><BR/>And the same is true if much of a country’s agriculture, industry or commerce is owned or controlled by persons who are either not her citizens or not resident within her borders for tax purposes.<BR/><BR/>Our country’s sovereignty, liberty, democracy and identity have been, and are still being, so eroded, an erosion which we must be determined to expose, to halt, and to reverse.<BR/><BR/>We must also be determined to expose, to halt, and to reverse the inseparable and deliberate importation of a new working class whose members understand no English except commands, know nothing about workers' rights in this country, can be deported if they step out of line, and (since they have no affinity with any particular part of this country) can be moved around at will, so that the old working class can be told to go hang, taking with it its unions, its minimum wage, its health and safety regulations, and so forth.<BR/><BR/>I am so determined. Are you? And if not, why not?David Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06839882674758833524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-20133380087946102742007-08-28T00:56:00.000+01:002007-08-28T00:56:00.000+01:00REAL free market zealots believe in only three thi...REAL free market zealots believe in only three things: the defence of the realm; the upholding of the rule of law and the breaking of monopolies and cartels.<BR/>The belief that the “free market” is an economic regime without rules and without any state intervention is the sort of facile interpretation that New Labour has of the mechanism.<BR/>It should NOT be an unregulated free for all where the big boys can use their muscle to force down the prices that they pay. The free market depends on intervention to remain free and to ensure that there are a large number of competitors. <BR/>Planning authorities, having virtually no powers to regulate them, have been forced into allowing the large supermarkets to <A HREF="http://andrewboff.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=30&Itemid=1" REL="nofollow">dominate our high streets</A>, reducing the choice of outlets and therefore the number of purchasers for farmer's products. <BR/>The free market in retail is in danger of coming to a halt and being replaced by corporate managerialism which exists not to innovate but to stifle competition and intimidate suppliers. <BR/>At the risk of sounding like Chauncey Gardiner, the free market is a beautiful thing, and like all beautiful things, needs care, attention and the occasional pruning.Andrew Boffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09882947902215585507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-48457860891447313552007-08-28T00:49:00.000+01:002007-08-28T00:49:00.000+01:00I was in Waitrose yesterday, the amount of glossy ...I was in Waitrose yesterday, the amount of glossy marketing is unbelievable.<BR/><BR/>A simple pack of diced pineapple, was<BR/><BR/>"Sugarloaf Pineapple"<BR/><BR/>"The Sindwe tribe of Senegal watchfully tend their small plots of sugarloaf pineapple to ensure their sumptuous sweetness..." [etc.]<BR/><BR/>It's all OTT, food porn, but what the truth is behind it, who knows.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com