tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post82349678972371155..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: The Labour Scientists Fail to Declare an InterestIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-11028387153280130052010-04-10T23:37:42.800+01:002010-04-10T23:37:42.800+01:00I assume many of these folks would be screaming bl...I assume many of these folks would be screaming bloody murder (and rightly so) if 22 "leading scientists" signed a letter in support of a policy position without disclosing their financial links to companies that stood to benefit from said policy?<br /><br />Also rather a shame The Guardian didn't apply the same sceptical fact-checking I'm sure will be applied to anyone who comes out and endorses the Tories...Craig Ranapiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08923246310584658857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-67305438591245627652010-04-10T23:37:42.801+01:002010-04-10T23:37:42.801+01:00Hey Guido: you've got the wrong headline. It s...Hey Guido: you've got the wrong headline. It should read "Tories fail to declare an interest... in a vision for science". But do you care - do you have any interest in it either?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08607183873293991943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-68824904086150923242010-04-10T22:08:03.977+01:002010-04-10T22:08:03.977+01:00@ Despairing Libel
'Tory-supporting'
Any...@ Despairing Libel<br /><br />'Tory-supporting'<br /><br />Any real evidence for this assertion? Or do you believe that a letter signed by a number of people which supports a stance taken by the Tories on one issue is clear enough indication that they are all 'Tory-supporting'?<br /><br />Probably you do.<br /><br />As to VAT @ 25%, what's your source for this?Unsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307116169498533047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-55908633570872767572010-04-10T21:56:44.131+01:002010-04-10T21:56:44.131+01:00With the notable exception of Paul Nurse, what'...With the notable exception of Paul Nurse, what's the big deal about this bunch of guys?<br /><br />Remember these days anybody can call themselves anything. I have an electronics degree and and engineering PhD, so I guess I could reasonably be considered a scientist too.<br /><br />Gimpy, the environment you describe about academia is accurate, but there are other factors that propagate this that I think have little to do whether Labour / Tories are in power:<br /><br />Acaedmics are true stick-in-the-muds in adopting modern practices. Spin-off companies are a classic example. Many think having the good idea is where its at, but are clueless when it comes to dealing with money, pragmatics, dealing with angry customers, buying and selling etc.<br /><br />I have developed software in academic environments and I can tell you that short term thinking and lack of formal training are the main problems, not who is in power.<br /><br />Scientists are considered to be clever people and there is a feeling that standard engineering practices, especially in software don't apply to them, and that they can 'just make it work'. <br /><br />Writing code that works isn't the hard part; maintaining and extending it efficiently and safely is. This is why much scientific code (eg CRU) is trash, and causes no amount of grief.<br /><br />The point I'm making is that the problem within academia is endemic within the system itself, a function of the resources available and the type of work that is rewarded. <br /><br />The culture is deeply embedded throughout academia. I don't see any easy way of changing that culture. <br /><br />It's the system itself that needs to change, so that we don't get those sorry situations like CRU again: reward people for writing decent code, place increased scrutiny on the correctness of results produced, to recognise the importance of training and formal processes, and (my favourite) to hold supervisors responsible for wasting the time of the members of their research groups.happyukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02459558077829920642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-51660358767531859442010-04-10T21:24:09.640+01:002010-04-10T21:24:09.640+01:00gimpy, I worked in the very area you cite, funding...gimpy, I worked in the very area you cite, funding and joint collaborations between business (my company) and universities/government research institutes.<br /><br />I stand by what I said in my post- When it comes to entrepreneurship or business acumen the average scientist sucks. Sure you can cite some notable exceptions, but these are the exceptions that prove the rule.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-79478818192352204862010-04-10T20:16:49.600+01:002010-04-10T20:16:49.600+01:00@John East
It's so easy to support socialism ...@John East<br /><br /><i>It's so easy to support socialism when one is a scientist.Usually enjoying a relatively secure job, probably funded by the state, and wary of the rather messy and empirical world of business and markets, holds little appeal for those who prefer fixed laws and simple cause and effect relationships.</i><br /><br />Contrary to popular perception for the first 10-15 years of a scientific career (this is after spending 7-8 years in education) it is almost impossible to get a contract for longer than 3 years. Those with more permanent contracts tend to be at a senior level. The Conservative plans to cut money will disproportionally affect young scientists (anyone under 40) who are the future of science in the UK. <br />Also your perception that science is all about fixed laws is out of date by several hundred years. Scientists have to deal with complexity and stochastic processes on a daily basis.<br /><br /><br />Finally, those who imagine that science and business are separate fields of endeavour are wrong. Universites and other funding bodies do encourage commercial spin-offs of basic research and there is, as there always has been, much crossflow between the private and public sector in science. Basic science, of the kind that will suffer if spending cuts are too pronounced, is very much the bedrock of commercial innovation.gimpyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18050410876360731813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-50940157727723793112010-04-10T20:11:31.974+01:002010-04-10T20:11:31.974+01:00JoeF: "These scientists clearly forget the ma...JoeF: "These scientists clearly forget the mass of closures of University science departments over the last 13 years". Yes, people like Paul Nurse who worked in Sussex university science faculty conveniently forget that the Chemistry department of that university was closed under Labour. This department produced the Nobel-prize winning research - Harry Croto. Life sciences departments in UCL and King's are shrunk. These carry out world class research. The problem with these scientists is that for them any such closures are under Labour and hence not serious, and sadistically enjoyable as the pain is inflicted by Labour! Why should Paul Nurse care- he is comfortable in USA thanks to those greedy businessmen who support Rockefeller university of which he is the president.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-83412918499729770932010-04-10T17:23:31.175+01:002010-04-10T17:23:31.175+01:00Let's just see which paper regurgitates this r...Let's just see which paper regurgitates this rubbish tomorrow...50 Calibrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04949487484030980699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-43898592893883149562010-04-10T16:43:22.328+01:002010-04-10T16:43:22.328+01:00These scientists clearly forget the mass of closur...These scientists clearly forget the mass of closures of University science departments over the last 13 years.JoeFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00426110406226256686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-3718509657976591332010-04-10T16:05:24.737+01:002010-04-10T16:05:24.737+01:00Oh dear...
http://conservativefriendsofscience.co...Oh dear...<br /><br />http://conservativefriendsofscience.com/Jimmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01542633492362670045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-47332210407290505042010-04-10T15:48:45.624+01:002010-04-10T15:48:45.624+01:00After Climategate, the public now has about as muc...After Climategate, the public now has about as much respect for scientists as for politicians.Joe Publichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07829909061904690380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-16762206227768978992010-04-10T15:45:18.739+01:002010-04-10T15:45:18.739+01:00"This is a stunt Labour have pulled in previo..."This is a stunt Labour have pulled in previous years,"<br /><br />And only Labour, right?Jimmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01542633492362670045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-86682897727625978072010-04-10T14:05:33.341+01:002010-04-10T14:05:33.341+01:00This is bad, partly because science funding under ...This is bad, partly because science funding under Labour has pretty much gone into a flat line and we are about to pull out of major international collaborations to save money. <br /><br />I'm not sure if the Conservatives have anything so bold as a science agenda or even if they have any MPs with a science background. I certainly can't remember any announcements from them about how important science is to a modern economy. Actually, I can't remember them speaking about science ever.<br /><br />They do have a worrying number of - let's call them anti-science MPs - who don't seem to have heard of the Enlightenment. the likes of David Treddinick (bought astrology software on expenses, pro homeopathy) and Nadine Dorries (young Earth, doesn't believe in evolution), spring readily to mind.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-58556488847353586222010-04-10T13:40:19.734+01:002010-04-10T13:40:19.734+01:00Unite are getting their fingers in more and more p...Unite are getting their fingers in more and more pies.Michael Heaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10815028897338910665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-76770143204391121122010-04-10T13:08:58.382+01:002010-04-10T13:08:58.382+01:00"Labour Scientists"
Does anyone else fin..."Labour Scientists"<br />Does anyone else find the phrase sinister? Creepy?Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12161658443183028628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-4270585343219248912010-04-10T12:38:53.372+01:002010-04-10T12:38:53.372+01:00The letter in the Times is from a much broader ran...The letter in the Times is from a much broader range of very senior scientists, and makes a similar point about the lack of a Tory science policy: <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/letters/article7092279.eceurl" rel="nofollow">Don’t experiment with a vision-free UK zone</a>Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14030192140849164884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-25568366827641237822010-04-10T12:05:45.204+01:002010-04-10T12:05:45.204+01:00It's so easy to support socialism when one is ...It's so easy to support socialism when one is a scientist. Usually enjoying a relatively secure job, probably funded by the state, and wary of the rather messy and empirical world of business and markets, holds little appeal for those who prefer fixed laws and simple cause and effect relationships.<br /><br />It's so much more appealing to work from the marxist rule book with its black and white world view.<br /><br />I should know having spent thirty years in the job. Many of my colleagues lived up to the stereotype of woolly minded sociopaths who would have been incapable of surviving in a world without nanny.<br /><br />I guess I was lucky. Towards the end of my career I switched to being an engineer, a much more right of centre calling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-43203186528498695922010-04-10T12:03:14.499+01:002010-04-10T12:03:14.499+01:00Given how tight the next round of grants will be, ...Given how tight the next round of grants will be, I'm suprised that there are any scientists willing to stand up for LabourBoohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10343313936224731968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-54189235430515057002010-04-10T11:55:24.648+01:002010-04-10T11:55:24.648+01:00Let's see, VAT was introduced in 1973, to repl...Let's see, VAT was introduced in 1973, to replace purchase tax, as a condition of entry into the EEC. So that'd be Ted Heath's Conservative Government. Initially Britain had 3 rates, 0%, 8% and 12.5%. <br /><br />This lasted until 1979 when Geoffrey Howe (Conservative) harmonised the higher rates and raised them to 15%. This was partially to offset cuts in Income Tax rates.<br /><br />Then Norman Lamont (Conservative) raised it to 17.5% in order to fund the Community Charge Reduction Scheme. A scheme introduction to help reduce the local government funding shortfall that was a consequence of people defaulting on the ever popular "Poll Tax".<br /><br />If I remember correctly, both Lamont and Clarke proposed phased increases in VAT on domestic fuel.<br /><br />So, draw your own conclusions.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05248641830080088359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-89190083003759520722010-04-10T11:52:52.086+01:002010-04-10T11:52:52.086+01:00In Friday night's BBC news they were reporting...In Friday night's BBC news they were reporting from Labour Party HQ in Glasgow about the "sacked" candidate ( sacked before he could resign) and there was a large Unite plaque on the wall.<br /><br />Quite handy having your paymaster in the same building or perhaps they have communal officesIan C. Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06543101441169745524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-49909319290760545992010-04-10T11:10:56.358+01:002010-04-10T11:10:56.358+01:00Clearly none of these "scientists" work ...Clearly none of these "scientists" work in higher education or they wouldn't be quite so sanguine about the effects of Labour's policies.<br /><br />Material is dumbed down to fit the abilities of students who cannot do the work but can pay our fees. Teaching has been reduced so we can focus on pseudo-research (actually meaningless busy work) because that's how funding is calculated. Time is taken away from actual academic work so it can be spent pimping our universities in the US and Far East purely so we can fill up on foreign students paying non-EU fees (and don't worry if they don't speak English or haven't the ability to do the work - take their money, give them a gentleman's pass and send them on their way). This is to say nothing of the bureaucratisation of universities through endless pointless committees, most of which exist simply to allow the payment of honoraria to participants and to facilitate the avoidance of actual decision-making.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14210245445771564283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-18441321842681623172010-04-10T11:10:56.359+01:002010-04-10T11:10:56.359+01:00I have just noticed that Scientists for Labour hav...I have just noticed that Scientists for Labour have hosted the letter on their website. <br />http://www.scientists-for-labour.org.uk/<br /><br />They did not attempt to deceive. Perhaps Iain Dale should correct his blogpost to reflect this?gimpyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18050410876360731813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-60398877354384932612010-04-10T11:07:00.401+01:002010-04-10T11:07:00.401+01:00"Scientists for Labour", that sounds lik..."Scientists for Labour", that sounds like "Kosher Butchers for Bacon". Facts, proof, evidence...and Social/Statist/Authoritiarian thinking. Non-sequitur.<br /><br />Better to have VAT at 25% than yet more employment taxes, as VAT falls on imports and domestic production equally. Employment taxes apply regardless of if we export goods or not. If employment taxes are too high (they are!) our domestic production is disadvantaged.<br /><br /><br />p.s. on VAT, remember that no party can lower it below 15% without EU "permission". <br /><br />The Swiss VAT rate is 7.6%.Roger Thornhillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03591327286533118901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-44732099055511505912010-04-10T10:59:27.837+01:002010-04-10T10:59:27.837+01:00Iain, I think that this should be of considerable ...Iain, I think that this should be of considerable concern for the Conservative Party. There are some very eminent, very respected scientists signing that letter, they will be listened to by the scientific community. This may be a political act from Labour supporting scientists but the inability of the Conservatives to have similar big names support them is a stark illustration of how little concern they have for the science vote.<br /><br />If the Conservatives want to dismiss this letter as election spin then they will further discredit themselves in the eyes of researchers. They would be well advised to engage with scientists themselves.gimpyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18050410876360731813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-29901574918339472612010-04-10T10:46:31.954+01:002010-04-10T10:46:31.954+01:00I wonder what the said scientists have to say abou...I wonder what the said scientists have to say about the data manipulating lot from the CRU at the University of East Anglia?<br /><br />No doubt, since Ed Milliband is so supportive of the distorted data, they turn a blind eye to the fiddling.Grand_Inquisitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12008480897159991738noreply@blogger.com