tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post7527040457795251820..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: EXCLUSIVE: How 'Spinning Gordon' Played Politics With TerrorismIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger157125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-56016667839520357582009-03-03T01:36:00.000+00:002009-03-03T01:36:00.000+00:00Speaking of terrorism:George W. Bush committed hat...Speaking of terrorism:<BR/><BR/>George W. Bush committed hate crimes of epic proportions and with the stench of terrorism (indicated in my blog).<BR/><BR/>George W. Bush did in fact commit innumerable hate crimes.<BR/><BR/>And I do solemnly swear by Almighty God that George W. Bush committed other hate crimes of epic proportions and with the stench of terrorism which I am not at liberty to mention.<BR/><BR/>Many people know what Bush did. <BR/><BR/>And many people will know what Bush did—even to the end of the world.<BR/><BR/>Bush was absolute evil.<BR/><BR/>Bush is now like a fugitive from justice.<BR/><BR/>Bush is a psychological prisoner. <BR/><BR/>Bush has a lot to worry about. <BR/><BR/>Bush can technically be prosecuted for hate crimes at any time.<BR/><BR/>In any case, Bush will go down in history in infamy.<BR/><BR/>Submitted by Andrew Yu-Jen Wang<BR/>B.S., Summa Cum Laude, 1996<BR/>Messiah College, Grantham, PA<BR/>Lower Merion High School, Ardmore, PA, 1993<BR/><BR/>“GEORGE W. BUSH IS THE WORST PRESIDENT IN U.S. HISTORY” BLOG OF ANDREW YU-JEN WANG<BR/>______________________<BR/>I am not sure where I had read it before, but anyway, it is a linguistically excellent statement, and it goes kind of like this: “If only it were possible to ban invention that bottled up memory so it never got stale and faded.” Oh wait—off of the top of my head—I think the quotation came from my Lower Merion High School yearbook.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-56912730402538266162007-06-13T16:29:00.000+01:002007-06-13T16:29:00.000+01:00http://theviewfromthenorth.blogspot.com/2007/06/to...http://theviewfromthenorth.blogspot.com/2007/06/to-seek-reaction-or-not-seek-reaction.html<BR/><BR/>Iain, you responded "I can't reveal how I know it and nor would any journalist."<BR/><BR/>But... you're not a journalist?<BR/><BR/>Looks like I am your researcher after all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-70053312517791482752007-06-12T18:47:00.000+01:002007-06-12T18:47:00.000+01:00Iain said: "Carl, I love you too. Do you work for ...Iain said: "Carl, I love you too. Do you work for the Basildon Evening Echo, by any chance?"<BR/><BR/>Not any more. Which shows how your Googling skills need updating. You should've seen me when I was at the BBC. But now I'm in cheery Plymouth as a crime reporter for a local paper. I'd hate you to think I'm not being honest with you...<BR/><BR/>Iain said: "Could you point to anywhere where I have <BR/>a) pretended to be a journalist<BR/>b) pretended not to have a party affliation"<BR/><BR/>I think the common and popular phrase these days is "I am not your researcher...", but that'd be churlish, wouldn't it.<BR/><BR/>But for the record, anyone who hosts a "TV show" internet or otherwise, and makes the kind of opinionated claims you do seems to wishe to sail as close to the reporting wind as possible. <BR/>Journalist or blogger, take your pick. It still appears as if you got your facts wrong, or at least couldn't back up with evidence what you claimed. <BR/>Do that too often, then the shine will come off your site.<BR/>Your blog banner says "right of centre commentator"... but let's be blunt here, we can get that down the Coach and Horses or from the back of a black London cab.<BR/>What your readers hope to get from you (I hope) is something with a little more weight, a little more substantial... a little more honest, accurate and provable than the stuff you and they criticise the press for being incapable of doing. <BR/>If you cannot match up to what you criticise, then you're being a bit of a naughty boy, no? People in glass houses, let he who is without sin, etc, etc, etc.<BR/>As for "author, publisher, radio pundit, TV presenter"... no, you're right, that's not even close to pretending to be a journalist. Shame on me. I can't imagine where I got that idea from. Tsk, Tsk. I'll be thinking Mr Cameron's green credentials aren't as sincere as he professes next.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-2607229157201200342007-06-08T23:22:00.000+01:002007-06-08T23:22:00.000+01:00tim - am i wrong thrice? I've never had any troub...tim - am i wrong thrice? <BR/><BR/>I've never had any trouble commenting on Guido. Not sure I understand you. Also CH is open to reply and comment. as are most blogs.<BR/><BR/>I should have said that bloggers should NOT have to operate within stricter rules than journalists.Tapestryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267094484651413428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19016321509452619702007-06-08T17:26:00.000+01:002007-06-08T17:26:00.000+01:00...please don't make out I have been anything othe......<I>please don't make out I have been anything other than totally upfront about what I do on this blog.</I><BR/><BR/>Well I could say something about that... but I wouldn't want to insult you.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13292436411579226284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-37947137929719014132007-06-08T14:52:00.000+01:002007-06-08T14:52:00.000+01:00Carl, I love you too. Do you work for the Basildon...Carl, I love you too. Do you work for the Basildon Evening Echo, by any chance?<BR/><BR/>Could you point to anywhere where I have <BR/><BR/>a) pretended to be a journalist<BR/>b) pretended not to have a party affliation<BR/><BR/>anyone who reads this blog is perfectly aware of my politics and what I do. It says what I do on the blog banner, so please don't make out I have been anything other than totally upfront about what I do on this blog.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-33052838646509988452007-06-08T14:48:00.000+01:002007-06-08T14:48:00.000+01:00If you publish an allegation as fact, you're a jou...If you publish an allegation as fact, you're a journalist.<BR/><BR/>If you publish an allegation as fact BEFORE you at contact the people you are implicating, you're a bad one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-85573402221001087262007-06-08T14:39:00.000+01:002007-06-08T14:39:00.000+01:00Iain said: "I have never pretended to be a journal...Iain said: "I have never pretended to be a journalist."<BR/><BR/>Thank feck. I wouldn't want your work to be confused with my profession. It has a bad enough name as it is without your unsubstantiated offerings.<BR/><BR/>Iain said: "I write opinionated comment"<BR/><BR/>Not factual reports then. Perhaps the word "comment" should be tagged to the bottoms of your stories then, just to clarify it for anyone who takes it as red that you've cornered the market in accurate, fair and balanced (and evidence-weighted) reports.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-21858159336399066842007-06-08T12:04:00.000+01:002007-06-08T12:04:00.000+01:00Anonymous (as usual) above, just to clarify on the...Anonymous (as usual) above, just to clarify on the pass thing. No it doesn't give access to Members lobby or lobby briefings. Nor would I either want or expect it to. I have made perfectly clear that the lobby pass application was for a representative from 18 Doughty Street and not for me. <BR/><BR/>You and others keep trying to pigeonhole me as a journalist. I have never pretended to be a journalist. I write opinionated comment. Because it is opinionated, some people don't like it. C'est la vie.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-13534722631427578422007-06-08T11:47:00.000+01:002007-06-08T11:47:00.000+01:00I work with them. The story's bollocks. No respons...I work with them. The story's bollocks. No response from Iain is now likely to be forthcoming. If you want to see what actually's going on here, check out the comments on guido's related post.<BR/><BR/>I agree with the comment above that said you have much to learn about journalism - as, let's face it (although you clearly portray yourself as anti-establishment), it's what you'd like this blog to be taken as.<BR/><BR/>There are some good stories on this site but muck and nonsense like this does you no favours.<BR/><BR/>Off-topic - doesn't your grey Commons pass entitle you entry to the Members' Lobby? So while you may not wish a lobby pass (and I'm sure i heard the serjeant-at-arms discussing your application...), there's not a lot of need for it, is there??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-60770412575417055092007-06-08T11:43:00.000+01:002007-06-08T11:43:00.000+01:00The main blogs like this or Guido all offer right ...<I>The main blogs like this or Guido all offer right of reply instantly 24 hours a day...</I><BR/><BR/>No they don't. Guido has often stated that he does not allow the right of reply on his website.<BR/><BR/>So you're wrong.<BR/><BR/>Wrong, wrong, wrong.<BR/><BR/>Sorry about that.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13292436411579226284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31100945702159321412007-06-08T10:17:00.000+01:002007-06-08T10:17:00.000+01:00The main blogs like this or Guido all offer right ...The main blogs like this or Guido all offer right of reply instantly 24 hours a day - to the world.<BR/><BR/>The blogger just starts off a topic, and allows all a chance to correct or comment instantly. You get the wisdom (of lack of it) of crowds effect. The information and ideas are soft. They modify through the comments. The picture at the end of a comment thread can be very different to the one created at the start, if the commenters are persuasive.<BR/><BR/>A newspaper is definitive. There is no instant right of reply. If it contains wrong information, or incorrect deductions, there is little the wronged party can do. Because blogs offer an instant right of reply, they should not be required to observe the same rulebook as the printed Press, as the 'wronged' party can come in and correct instantly.<BR/><BR/>People should be freer to theorise on blogs than in other media.<BR/><BR/>In this case Iain Dale says he can say 'for a fact' that one paper was briefed exactly as he describes. He then points out that it is almost certain that the others were similarly briefed. He should not be made to reveal his sources any more than newspapers. There should be a higher standard for bloggers than the Press.<BR/><BR/>The problem for Hennessy etc is that no one yet seems to believe their denials, which appear clumsy, angry and threatening in style. Maybe the great clunking fist commanded that these denials be made. Who knows?<BR/><BR/>If Brown is a control freak, and it appears he is far worse than Blair, it is unlikely this will be the last time that bloggers are threatened for revealing how politicians and journalists interact and try to manipulate the news.<BR/><BR/>It is interesting how angry nearly all journalists appear to be with bloggers. They obviously feel threatened by the competition, and loss of total control they had previously enjoyed. If they had nothing to hide, would they react as they do? <BR/><BR/>What will come out next I wonder? The Brown era looks like being a fruitful one for stories of strong-arming the media on the quiet. People will be afraid, but must speak out and write about it, or we are finished. Keep it up, Iain.Tapestryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267094484651413428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-88515574478881565112007-06-08T00:15:00.000+01:002007-06-08T00:15:00.000+01:00They can comment, correct, or offer alternative id...<I>They can comment, correct, or offer alternative ideas and explanantions.</I><BR/><BR/>Not always, tapestry. Some site authors greatly manipulate this process. In fact, there are some 'blogs' that run with an official policy of 'no right of reply'.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13292436411579226284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-14382815965114010542007-06-07T23:59:00.000+01:002007-06-07T23:59:00.000+01:00Is blogging journalism?A journal travels out into ...Is blogging journalism?<BR/><BR/>A journal travels out into the world and is put on sale to the public. People visit a blog. The traffic is the other way.<BR/><BR/>The idea of a blog is to provide an open diary - where you say what you think, or what you have been told. Then others can come in and visit. They can comment, correct, or offer alternative ideas and explanantions.<BR/><BR/>On this occasion, the visitors came in bearing threats and insults, providing no enlightenment.<BR/><BR/>Iain may or may not be a top journalist. I don't see that as an issue. <BR/><BR/>But this lot are certainly no bloggers. The truth needs no threat, no insult. It writes calmly onto the screen, and has an aura of credibility.<BR/><BR/>Journalism generally is fast losing that quality. <BR/><BR/>Blogging provides hope that the truth can somewhere still be found, in amongst the cynicism. Dale's one of the best.Tapestryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267094484651413428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-6254225211956974272007-06-07T19:42:00.000+01:002007-06-07T19:42:00.000+01:00Iain - conspiracy theory? No - you'll find most jo...Iain - conspiracy theory? No - you'll find most journalists work on the basis of cock-up followed by cover-up. <BR/>You've cocked up, now you're trying to cover it up claiming conspiracy... shame on you. Even a ex-wannabe MP would know better than that.<BR/>I didn't ask for "documentary evidence for your sources". However, I would suggest, that if you are going to act like you're a journalist, you should recognise that you do, on occasion, have to put your money where your mouth is. As an individual you've made a unsubstantiated claim which cast aspersions on four journalists. <BR/>Remarkably, they've all taken the time to come onto your holy blogsite and refute those claims. <BR/>Your response is not - "ah you're fibbing, and here's the evidence proving it". It's "ah, it's a conspiracy... I don't have to reveal my sources".<BR/>Okay, so, don't reveal your sources. Who asked you to?<BR/>But reveal your evidence sunshine. And if you can't then perhaps you should go and do the NCTJ course to learn the basic of journalism rather than that glossy 18 Doughty Street media training programme you've got going. <BR/><BR/>I am disappointed. You can do better than this. It was a cheap-shot story and reveals you haven't yet grasped what journalism is really about. <BR/>Politics, yes sir, you've got that down to a T, but the reporting bit needs some work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-30762392883101878302007-06-07T19:13:00.000+01:002007-06-07T19:13:00.000+01:00Phew! The Indie's checked in. The other shoe drop...Phew! The Indie's checked in. The other shoe drops....<BR/><BR/>...a day late, after prompt from desperados running a lynching party.Tapestryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267094484651413428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-4522342905746037962007-06-07T18:58:00.000+01:002007-06-07T18:58:00.000+01:00Documentary evidence alone would do. If you can't ...Documentary evidence alone would do. If you can't show it without revealing your source(s), then you probably shouldn't publish. Just a thought.<BR/><BR/>PS - Iain, yelling 'conspiracy theorist' is an old and tired gambit. Please stop doing it.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13292436411579226284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90165958704320042812007-06-07T18:27:00.000+01:002007-06-07T18:27:00.000+01:00This is all getting very entertaining as conspirac...This is all getting very entertaining as conspiracy theories abound.<BR/><BR/>But one question keeps troubling me. If I kept asking journalists who their sources were they'd tell me (quite rightly) where to go in no uncertain terms.<BR/><BR/>Why is it though, that I am expected to provide documentary evidence for my sources? Ain't gonna happen guys.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-23484711066688477322007-06-07T18:25:00.000+01:002007-06-07T18:25:00.000+01:00Trumpeter said: "The reading public does not give ...Trumpeter said: "The reading public does not give a damn who gets the story out first. Many of us don't read our Sunday newspapers until Monday or Tuesday. The MSM's preoccupation with scoops is just a journalists' thing. You are all up up your own bottoms."<BR/><BR/>The head of this story by Iain (which still hasn't come up with any hard evidence other than "I happen to know it to be true in the case of one of the papers I mention") is <BR/>"EXCLUSIVE: How 'Spinning Gordon' Played Politics With Terrorism "<BR/><BR/>So, whose up their own bottom then?<BR/><BR/>Ian has a pertinent point "People are quick to accuse the lobby of feeding on the scraps doled out by spin doctors but they accept the words of a blogger with no evidence to back up his claims."<BR/><BR/>I remind you both sides do not have evidence of who's right or honest... but then only one side made the accusation. <BR/><BR/>And then Marie Woolf provides the slamdunk on Iain. <BR/><BR/>Ooops. <BR/><BR/>Can we expect a non-denial denial of an error from Iain soon?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-68161226520735257062007-06-07T16:29:00.000+01:002007-06-07T16:29:00.000+01:00All this has done has shown how hopeless the Torie...All this has done has shown how hopeless the Tories are with the press. It's one thing to whine and moan at the press - all the parties do it and the hacks are well used to it. it's another to do so on a made up or wildly inaccurate basis: that is the way to get yourself shafted.<BR/><BR/>As a labour supporter I'd like to congratualte Iain for his work in damaging the reputation of himself and his ex-boss with the press. Keep it up old son.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-81211436908906720222007-06-07T15:21:00.000+01:002007-06-07T15:21:00.000+01:00My very kind colleague sent my ungrammatical post ...My very kind colleague sent my ungrammatical post from his account because my computer is defunct. (That is the reason for delaying my response.) Hope you get the gist ...... <BR/><BR/>Marie WoolfJohn Rentoulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01151597362797034441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-51530951717162044672007-06-07T15:17:00.000+01:002007-06-07T15:17:00.000+01:00Dear Iain,It is unlike you to get stories squew wh...Dear Iain,<BR/><BR/>It is unlike you to get stories squew whiff but on this occasion I am afraid your report about a supposed <BR/>Brown terror spinning opposition is not right. You are correct to say that we wrote a story about Brown's policy on terror, which I felt was of interest to our readers as we have long been following this issue. However, to my knowledge, neither Damian McBride or Michael Ellam were not frantically calling the Sundays last Saturday (I didn't speak to either of them) but it is not right and insulting to suggest that we were instructed not to contact any opposition spokesmen. Obviously such instructions if they had been given would have been ignored. So sorry Iain, your story is not up to your usual standards.<BR/><BR/>Marie Woolf<BR/>Independent on SundayJohn Rentoulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01151597362797034441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-35240689637533194092007-06-07T15:02:00.000+01:002007-06-07T15:02:00.000+01:00And much more relevantly the Sunday Times !!!And much more relevantly the Sunday Times !!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-18547833624184340922007-06-07T11:24:00.000+01:002007-06-07T11:24:00.000+01:00Iain, yesterday [1104 AM] "I happen to know [the a...Iain, yesterday [1104 AM] "I happen to know [the allegation] to be true in the case of one of the [four] papers I mention"<BR/><BR/>Hmmm. Story now denied by Hennessy (S.Tel), Kirby (NoW) and Watt (Observer). That leaves the Independent, from whom, I fancy, we have yet to hear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-88258440892001910322007-06-07T10:27:00.000+01:002007-06-07T10:27:00.000+01:00I note that people are happy to label Nick and Pad...<I>I note that people are happy to label Nick and Paddy liars but accept Iain's version of events at face value....</I><BR/><BR/>As gospel, Mr Kirby... as *gospel*.<BR/><BR/><I>Do you have any documentary evidence to back up your claims, Mr Dale?</I><BR/><BR/>Iain is not your researcher.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13292436411579226284noreply@blogger.com