tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post7162752202923507219..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Why the Expenses Issue Needs to be Addressed NowIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger86125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-35583257067055482622009-04-01T22:46:00.000+01:002009-04-01T22:46:00.000+01:00I almost feel as if I should be paid danger money ...<I>I almost feel as if I should be paid danger money for having the temerity to defend politics as a profession.</I><BR/><BR/>Raedwald hits the nail on the head:<BR/><BR/><B>Politics is not a profession.</B> The professionalisation* of politics and the consequent creation of a political elite isolated from the general public is what has led us to the sorry situation in which we now find ourselves.<BR/><BR/>*btw As a registered professional engineer (a status achieved though study, practical experience and only awarded after the scrutiny of my peers) I resent the implication that politicians should achieve the same recognition simply because they can toe the party line and kiss babies better than some other schmuck.The Remittance Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13104149259707414863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1606567828527912602009-03-31T04:03:00.000+01:002009-03-31T04:03:00.000+01:00I see only two ways for this issue to be resolved ...I see only two ways for this issue to be resolved quickly:<BR/><BR/>1) David Cameron impose unilateral instructions for all Conservative MPs from, say the next General Election onwards. He made some steps last year demanding that all MPs disclose a breakdown of their allowances, including listing family members employed and their salary bands (much of this will be superseded by the publication of all receipts). If this worked, I suspect that the other parties would have to follow suit; Clegg would probably do so immediately. The question is would his MPs fall into line, and what action would he take if they don't?<BR/><BR/>2) A number of MPs across all parties bring forward proposals for reform. I could see Tories and LibDems working together on this, and it appears that Tom Harris has his head screwed on in this respect too. Over here in the US, it's tough and painful to get any kind of reform, but it has been done through bi-partisan cooperation, most notably McCain-Feingold in respect of campaign finance reform.<BR/><BR/>Of course, in the current atmosphere, no sound proposal will satisfy everyone. But they could make some tangible improvements.<BR/><BR/>For what it's worth, here's my 2 cents:<BR/><BR/>1) Exclusion zone for constituencies allowing ACA increased to 60 miles (I'm guessing that's about a 90 minute commute).<BR/>2) End the ability for MP's to use expenses to fund investment/speculation on the property market - basically rentals only. (I can see the furore in 10 years time as Tory MPs cash in on the profits from the second houses they bought at rock bottom prices back in 2010). This would also eliminate things like kitchen and bathroom remodeling, and bathplugs!<BR/>3) Furniture, appliances and TV's treated as "capital equipment"; purchased centrally and the property of parliament.Dual Citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05688872768973943522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-45175551266083865762009-03-31T02:49:00.000+01:002009-03-31T02:49:00.000+01:00The companies that make lamp posts and piano wire ...The companies that make lamp posts and piano wire must be seeing their shares go through the roof, thanks to all these thieving MPs. It must be the only growth industry we have left. Anyway...<BR/><BR/>Sir Iain said: <I>"Every single caller thought politicians were thieving, lying scum... they all thought that every single politician had their snouts in the trough."</I><BR/><BR/>Well, they wouldn't be far off, would they? I notice most MPs haven't written about this on their blogs either - where is Kerry McCarthy's post, for example, saying what she thinks? MPs silence on this is absolutely deafening. The worst thing is, they don't give a crap.The Grim Reaperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05543130733645367498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-67943202334058261902009-03-30T23:05:00.000+01:002009-03-30T23:05:00.000+01:00Iain,I agree that MPs work hard. My issue is why d...Iain,<BR/><BR/>I agree that MPs work hard. My issue is why do they need so much for a London allowance? You could have get a decent flat in London for £11,000 renting - why do they need double that? More importantly, why do they get to have their mortgages paid by the taxpayer and get to keep the profits?<BR/><BR/>I think they should only be able to rent property with their allowances, and only rent in London.<BR/><BR/>RCMRob Marrshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13557080968658349380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-8317892755538920972009-03-30T22:12:00.000+01:002009-03-30T22:12:00.000+01:00For once I agree with you. And if there are MPs o...For once I agree with you. And if there are MPs out there who think that they can delay this and kick this into the long grass they are sorely mistaken. We are only talking about designing a remuneration and expenses framework for 650 people - and there are plenty of entities in the corporate sector where such thinks are designed in a much shorter framework for greater numbers (e.g after takeovers). Perhaps two principles to follow might be that expenses should only be payable where they meet the HMRC PAYE test of being tax allowable (ie wholly, exclusively and necessarily connected with their employment) - i.e the same test as for nearly everyone else - and the total amount payable for proper expenses and salaries should not be greater than that is currently spent (in fact a 5-10% reduction might help to repair damaged goodwill). And the whole thing could be subject to a proper audit rather than allowing the gutter press and sewer bloggers to look at every invoice.<BR/><BR/><BR/>As for all the journalists who are playing this up - perhaps a comparative study between journalists and MPs in respect of laziness and misclaiming expenses might be very revealing.tory boys never grow uphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11172736984147732661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-29698895397220904342009-03-30T20:22:00.000+01:002009-03-30T20:22:00.000+01:00Iain, after a quick google it seems to suggest tha...Iain, after a quick google it seems to suggest that there was a media furore about MPs being able to use a loophole to dodge capital gains tax. Whether it happened or not I don't know.<BR/><BR/>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1030239/Over-100-MPs-multi-million-tax-dodge-second-homes.html<BR/><BR/>http://www.scotsman.com/politiciansexpenses/MPs-accused-of--.4234450.jp<BR/><BR/>etc.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I think it will be hard for any MP to come out smelling of roses out of this. You not only have the expenses and high wages, you also have the fact that this is going on in a time when 2million are unemployed and a global recession is occuring. <BR/><BR/>I guess it is a bit hard to swallow that, if we look at the HOC Members' Resource Accounts, there is an amount spent that equates to around £250k per MP. If we consider that the Committee who set the Estimate (about £160m for 2007-08 iirc) are all MPs, it does have the appearance of "a bit of an old-boys network", or worse a bunch of people allowing each other to claim alot of public cash.<BR/><BR/>Whether the latter part of that is true or not, it does not matter. That is how I believe it appears from outside Westminster. That's why you need outside auditing of this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-49325384052450666842009-03-30T19:48:00.000+01:002009-03-30T19:48:00.000+01:00Just found out from Guido's site that one of my lo...Just found out from Guido's site that one of my local MPs (Lyn Brown, West Ham) has claimed over £15,000 for a second home (2007-2008).<BR/><BR/>I'd love to know where that is, as:<BR/>1. Her constituency has the Jubilee Line running through it, therefore it's about 20 mins max from Westminster.<BR/>2. When we were both councillors on Newham Council I was invited to a BBQ at her house, which was in the West Ham constituency.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-72427227746638267812009-03-30T19:33:00.000+01:002009-03-30T19:33:00.000+01:00"Don't the 200 new MPs who may be elected in 2010 ..."Don't the 200 new MPs who may be elected in 2010 deserve to know what their terms of employment will be in advance?"<BR/><BR/>What on earth are you on about?<BR/><BR/>What do you mean by "terms of employment"? <BR/><BR/>Being an MP is not a job. It's nothing like a job and it never should be. <BR/><BR/>As a result of the inexorable rise of the career politician, too many of them think it is. This, in my view is part of the problem.<BR/><BR/>I have known people to be upset with politicians before, but I've never seen or heard anything like the current anger. It is evident in friends and work colleagues not normally interested politics.<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure a review can wait till next year.Colinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16949877777934292635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-24892127823232495172009-03-30T18:48:00.000+01:002009-03-30T18:48:00.000+01:00I heard you on the radio earlier and I share your ...I heard you on the radio earlier and I share your despair. Indeed, I could very easily hear your despair. It seems as if so many of our fellow citizens have lost all perspective when it comes to our elected representatives.Andrew Allisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00001512586556659809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-128992106629645512009-03-30T18:38:00.000+01:002009-03-30T18:38:00.000+01:00Either MPs are running what is effectively a small...Either MPs are running what is effectively a small business funded by the taxpayers or they are employed by the State. <BR/><BR/>With the former employing staff, particularly your own family, is commonplace. A little more transparency wouldn't go amiss, but in addition, if HMRC require that all <I>my</I> business expense claims can be backed up with receipts so <I>must</I> MPs. There is absolutely no justifiable reason for anything less. And as they are publically funded let's have them published.<BR/><BR/>The alternative is that MPs are effectively employed. Then the State must either pay them enough to sub contract their staffing costs or the staffing should be provided by the State. And again the costs should be published as it is with public money.<BR/><BR/>I don't have a problem with either method and both can be achieved by paying a lump sum roughly equivalent to the current cost of an MP (about £200k) without the need for expenses claims and whatnot. Let the MPs individually decide what to spend on themselves, their staff, accommodation and travel. So long as things are open and can be clearly seen to be above board. The murky, hidden, grasping MPs that max out their claims, employ family members without making it apparent, fiddle the second home/main home by having one arrangement for expenses purposes and the reverse for capital gains tax purposes simply has to stop. Trust went out the window decades ago.<BR/><BR/>Lets have less MPs as well.Garethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11182144080955551878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-32731736493098360732009-03-30T18:29:00.000+01:002009-03-30T18:29:00.000+01:00Iain Dale still seems to have a blind spot on this...Iain Dale still seems to have a blind spot on this issue. The reason he can't persuade the public that it's simply a case of a few bad apples is that the evidence simply doesn't support it. Guido has a post now showing that more than half of all MPs are claiming within 10% of the maximum second home allowance. Who's benefit does that look like they're seeking to maximise: the public's or theirs?<BR/>The press are hardly to blame - perhaps they're not all at it, but most of them certainly seem to be. O'Grady's analysis seems a lot closer to the truth than Dale's.Hughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14136388438458700932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-74838836458219957422009-03-30T18:23:00.000+01:002009-03-30T18:23:00.000+01:00On a slightly more serious note: I agree that the ...On a slightly more serious note: I agree that the problem is the perception of corruption, rather than any actually existing corruption.<BR/><BR/>Most people who rail against corruption are just using it as an excuse not to engage with the issues.<BR/><BR/>/choirboy ;)TJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00095813897930533591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-273582039129763982009-03-30T18:20:00.000+01:002009-03-30T18:20:00.000+01:00As a former staffer I would encourage staffing to ...As a former staffer I would encourage staffing to be taken in house. At least then I would have earned a decent salary. MPs, particularly Lib Dems it has to be said, use their budget to employ as many people as they can - quantity over quality much of the time. Some of my colleagues were earning less than £15k in central London but, like the rest of us, did it because of the future benefits it could bring. This might also end that irritating habit of Tories employing "Chief of Staff"s - a ludicrous term in what is effectively a very small business!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00837291102623983413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-65549035099729917942009-03-30T18:11:00.000+01:002009-03-30T18:11:00.000+01:00What I don't understand about the recent Jacqui Sm...What I don't understand about the recent Jacqui Smith business is why her chap was paying for both a (presumably broadband) web connection <I>and</I> pay-per-view?<BR/><BR/>What is the world coming to (hah!) when our leader's spouses have to pay full price for adult movies!<BR/><BR/>Outrageous.TJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00095813897930533591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19173299366161651562009-03-30T17:27:00.000+01:002009-03-30T17:27:00.000+01:00'If I were an MP, I would certainly expect to choo...'If I were an MP, I would certainly expect to choose my own staff. In fact I doubt I would bother to do the job if I had staff foisted on me. Trust is incredibly important, for one thing.' -Iain<BR/><BR/>Oh dearie me, here we go again. Iain, we have military officers who don't get a choice of staff, they take what they're given. Military officers come way above the 'profession' of MPs in my book and they don't have luxuries such as ludicrous sexpenses and expenses.<BR/><BR/>I've said before a Major in the army receives £43,000 against an MP at £63,000. No housing claims for the military and when they have to work away from home, they live in officers messes where they pay (although the cost is slightly subsidised by the MOD). They travel 2nd class everywhere by public transport - rules set down some years ago by Westminster.<BR/><BR/>Cut the numbers of MPs, far too many down there. So many Scots MPs aren't necessary as all parties are represented in the Scottish Parliament. Yes, until Scotland is independent, it requires representation at Westminster but it's a nonsense to have all these people with their own staff, offices etc based in the same electoral area.<BR/><BR/>Give MPs a maximum of £100,000 and tell them that's it. Let them do their own books and be taxed like all workers.<BR/><BR/>I hear to often the argument that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys and we need quality MPs. If we paid £100,000 I think we may attract a better quality of MP, someone who felt they could contribute to the country rather than the country's purse.subrosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151702590329788260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-87153537727502504702009-03-30T17:10:00.000+01:002009-03-30T17:10:00.000+01:00Thought your performance on Radio Five Live last n...Thought your performance on Radio Five Live last night was extremely mature and balanced something missing from the mainstream media these days. Dont know why they bothered to have a quote from Derek Draper though. <BR/><BR/>Was surprised Nadine Dorries had a pop at the media, although not atall surprising. <BR/><BR/>What needs reforming is not onlly the expenses, but also the whole donations and party political funding. Some of this money these MPs claimed could be funded privately, Im sure. <BR/><BR/>The problem we have in this country is there are good people who are afraid to go into politics, because they are afraid the media will sniff around and make up any story on them, out of nothing. That is why sometimes I despair at the MSM!<BR/><BR/>http://www.plenty2say.comPlentyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06205851616053056137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-68616920920944420692009-03-30T17:00:00.000+01:002009-03-30T17:00:00.000+01:00Strapworld, I think Cameron, Brown and Clegg are d...Strapworld, I think Cameron, Brown and Clegg are doing OK with their figures when compared with banker CEO's expense accounts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-75881428521704954952009-03-30T16:57:00.000+01:002009-03-30T16:57:00.000+01:00It's simple, if you know your MP has been acti...It's simple, if you know your MP has been acting dishonestly > then simply DO NOT vote for them!<BR/><BR/>DO NOT VOTE for dishonest politicians!!<BR/><BR/>Votes are our strongest currency. <BR/><BR/>Use it or lose it!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-64603010006852677732009-03-30T16:44:00.000+01:002009-03-30T16:44:00.000+01:00When you see from the figures just released that D...When you see from the figures just released that David Cameron claimed a total of £146.743 (from Costs of staying away from main home£19.626) Office running costs £7588, staffing costs £103.630. Centrally purchased stationery £2594/ Stationery Associated Postage Costs £4399/Central IT £1294/Staff Cover and other costs £%412 and Commons Allowance £2200..Total £146.743.<BR/><BR/>Nick Cleggs total £141.934<BR/><BR/>Gordon Brown an inexplicable £111.536<BR/><BR/>Perhaps there lies the reason for the silence?strapworldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18228784526399929300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-27318317546044183892009-03-30T16:42:00.000+01:002009-03-30T16:42:00.000+01:00I've pointed out before that MPs are suffering fro...I've pointed out before that MPs are suffering from the mass delusion that the problem is one of "presentation". No, the problem is one of facts. The facts are that politicians treat themselves as if they are better than the rest of us. This needs to stop, but they won't let anyone stop them!!<BR/><BR/>One reform of parliament that would change a lot of attitudes would be this: no party whip for any MP elected with less than 50% of the votes cast. Such MPs cannot adequately represent their constituency by toeing the party line, and they shouldn't be allowed to. Removing the whip from them would mean the government never had an automatic majority on any vote, and parliament would listen far more to the people.Adrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18133737535022180304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31140852564795776792009-03-30T16:35:00.000+01:002009-03-30T16:35:00.000+01:00Furthermore, Dorries on 5 live last night claimed ...Furthermore, Dorries on 5 live last night claimed that MPs work when people are unaware that they are working. She then went on to qualify that by saying that she was work then (as she was speaking) by being on the show.<BR/><BR/>No she f#cking wasn't, she was defending MPs claiming various expenses.<BR/><BR/>I doubt if this was a deliberate attempt at flim-flam, but it was an awful defence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-77108948816264907122009-03-30T16:31:00.000+01:002009-03-30T16:31:00.000+01:00How can you call politics a profession (apologies ...How can you call politics a profession (apologies to anyone who has already made this point - if any)?<BR/><BR/>What qualifications are needed? Where does one go to study/qualify to be a professional politico?<BR/><BR/>Surely, if one has aspirations to become a politician the first requirement is that one ascribes to a manifesto based on an ideology.<BR/><BR/>On the whole, in this country, most people find that the wider spectrum of their "political" beliefs fall within the net of one or another of the few political parties that have a foothold within our parliamentary system.<BR/><BR/>So, if one feels strongly enough (and is sufficiently committed) one joins a party and tries to get selected as an MP or councillor… not exactly a career path.<BR/><BR/>We really must do away with this concept that politicians are professionals - they are not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-28045304928802150212009-03-30T16:04:00.000+01:002009-03-30T16:04:00.000+01:00At a general election, we are presented with a lis...At a general election, we are presented with a list of candidates. And frankly, it doesn't seem to matter which MP wins, the government always gets in...<BR/> <BR/>So I would also like to add "No MP required for this constituency" as an option on the ballot paper.<BR/> <BR/>If this won the election, then that constituency would have no MP for the term of the next parliament (typically 4-5 years).<BR/> <BR/>The money saved on their salary, expenses and pension would then be used to give a discount of the constituent's council tax bills.<BR/> <BR/>This is not the same as "None of the above" where another election would be held, but with different candidates.<BR/><BR/>Maybe this option would help restore some public confidence?Justinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04854395476676946635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-9643783000520469372009-03-30T16:02:00.000+01:002009-03-30T16:02:00.000+01:00The civil servants are the professionals, not the ...The civil servants are the professionals, not the politicians. That is half the problem.Arthurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01526412135242876690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-52180726082449668122009-03-30T15:50:00.000+01:002009-03-30T15:50:00.000+01:00"Brown's mixing of two entirely different issues (..."Brown's mixing of two entirely different issues (expenses and second jobs) is typical New Labour slime"<BR/><BR/>Disagree - two aspects of MPs exploiting their position. Both (and more) need to be sorted out - now - ahead of next GEJon Harveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12792245973965010468noreply@blogger.com