tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post6504234746825368738..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: The Flaws of the Fees OfficeIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-81628986213135791022009-05-23T00:18:47.983+01:002009-05-23T00:18:47.983+01:00I'd just like to add to those who aren't condemnin...I'd just like to add to those who aren't condemning the Fees Office; they were complicite in as much as they were applying and advising on pretty loose rules. <br /><br />That they did object to the likes of 8,000 quid TVs and duck islands shows that they were trying to hold back some of the excesses. This does not excuse the fact that Members felt they had an entitlement to such extravagant claims (I find the claims that were turned down to be as objectionable as those that were passed).<br /><br />Furthermore, as has been shown - and I think one of the things that has been really telling from this whole saga - is that MPs when confronted by the Fees Office will receive a barrage of complaint from the MPs saying, in effect, 'how dare you?' (we won't know of the (unrecorded) phone calls - I've heard them - saying 'but I'm the MP'...).<br /><br />This unfortunately is part of the culture of a body that runs on the idea of honourable members - sovereign, beyond reproach and to whom everyone must pay deference (remember the MP/staff queueing debacle) - who do not take on the responsibilities that come with such a titleBriannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-36492470187932305322009-05-22T23:45:37.230+01:002009-05-22T23:45:37.230+01:00I'd like the DUP's David Simpson's little oversigh...I'd like the DUP's David Simpson's little oversight/repayment investigated a little more.<br /><br />The fees office lost his original expense claim apparently, then when his office queried it, they asked him to send in another claim.<br />He did...but only when 'going through his claims thoroughly' at a later stage did he discover that the Fees Office paid out the original and the re-submitted claims.<br /><br />Hmmmmm....another £1000 odd worth of public money paid back by an 'outraged and angry' MP.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31823729704590094072009-05-22T22:45:12.463+01:002009-05-22T22:45:12.463+01:00Great. That's just what we need in a crisis! A pri...<A HREF="http://thatsnews.blogspot.com/2009/05/friday-night-in-shirkhouse-or-posting.html" REL="nofollow"> Great. That's just what we need in a crisis! A prime minister who become hysterical with rage and can't be relied upon not to say the first stupid thing that comes into his cavernous head...</A>Martin Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04148241391183658112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-73564648517553660662009-05-22T21:20:03.588+01:002009-05-22T21:20:03.588+01:00Fees Office, and all Commons staff are employed by...Fees Office, and all Commons staff are employed by the Commons Commission headed by the Speaker. They are not Civil Servants as they cannot work for the Government as they serve Parliament as a whole. Whilst they have been craven in the extreme they were almost certainly directed to be so and if you cross an MP your card is marked. Fees Office accounts are subject to inspection by the NAO but it should be pointed out that whilst many of these claims were being nodded through, the Comptroller & Auditor General of the NAO was himself no stranger to controversy in relation to - well, his own expenses actually.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-28898832451199202462009-05-22T20:31:08.834+01:002009-05-22T20:31:08.834+01:00shameful iain- shameful. you ought to hang your he...shameful iain- shameful. you ought to hang your head in shame. you dont understand that politics is contaminated with this and you are frankly making excuses. disgraceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-30905554849665060602009-05-22T20:17:50.027+01:002009-05-22T20:17:50.027+01:00Of course the aspect that hasn't yet made it into ...Of course the aspect that hasn't yet made it into the story is that some of the most egregious claims weren't actually approved or paid by the Fees Office. For example the public <B>didn't</B> pay for:<br />- cleaning Douglas Hogg's moat<br />- building Peter Viggers' duck island<br />- buying Lembit Opik's £2500 TVRicardo's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10570395129957821807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-44897258322930292452009-05-22T20:09:34.063+01:002009-05-22T20:09:34.063+01:00GB's diaries are a bloody good read.
Not many pol...GB's diaries are a bloody good read.<br /><br />Not many political diarists come out with sentences as honest as:<br /><br />"Met that total cow, Emma Nicholson..." <br /><br />heheheSteve Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15992098012803570361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-798585507137753242009-05-22T20:02:43.861+01:002009-05-22T20:02:43.861+01:00Yep I'd guess it IS an inflationary increase despi...Yep I'd guess it IS an inflationary increase despite all the bleating.<br />I have in my mind some benchmarks.<br /><br />In 1989/90 I was a Deputy Chief Officer in one of the SIX most major Local authorities in the Country (not Leeds, Birmingham, Manchester so work it out. It is very NORTHERN)<br /><br />I DID then earn just a little more than an MP and somewhat more than a GP. appropos the MP MY daily responsibility was far more and I regularly worked 12 hour days. The GP - well I'm not too sure about that but I have serious doubts on value even though I have great respect for the skill of SOME of them.<br />My mid-range professional staff earned about the same as a mid range teacher with a few years experience. the more senior perhaps equalled an MP. <br />Backtrack another 20 years and my mid-range staff would have been at least EQUAL to an MP in salary.<br />TODAY? Well TODAY , even with the massive increases in the salaries of top jobs in LAs I would likely now ONLY have the salary of an MP but WITHOUT the tax free perks.<br />I would earn somewhat LESS than a common or garden GP (courtesy total incompetence by the Govt in determining contracts).<br />My staff would (and those still serving are) earning rather less than GPs and even teachers with similar levels of professional skill.<br /><br />And these MPs really THINK that they are "entitled" to expenses equal to another £40k taxed salary? (which equates to £24k after tax).<br /><br />enough IS enough.Cameron must not just threaten he must SACK. "they are jealous" seems to be the REAL attitude of many.<br />Given the numerical superiority of the Labour benches then the Tories and Liberals will suffer much LESS than NuLab.<br />So gather the cojones David and be effing RUTHLESS. Brown will forget WHERE his balls (if any) actually are.<br /><br />Anger is at its height. TWO Question Times prove it and I'd reckon, after tonight, TWO "any questions".<br />I remember a Paris taxi-driver pointing out that the Bastille no longer existed when we passed La Place de la Bastille.<br />Think on Westminster. Do NOT assume because you could have a very nasty surprise. I'm researching sources for rope!bewickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02808667730361613052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-52004751559296493262009-05-22T20:02:23.141+01:002009-05-22T20:02:23.141+01:00Yep I'd guess it IS an inflationary increase despi...Yep I'd guess it IS an inflationary increase despite all the bleating.<br />I have in my mind some benchmarks.<br /><br />In 1989/90 I was a Deputy Chief Officer in one of the SIX most major Local authorities in the Country (not Leeds, Birmingham, Manchester so work it out. It is very NORTHERN)<br /><br />I DID then earn just a little more than an MP and somewhat more than a GP. appropos the MP MY daily responsibility was far more and I regularly worked 12 hour days. The GP - well I'm not too sure about that but I have serious doubts on value even though I have great respect for the skill of SOME of them.<br />My mid-range professional staff earned about the same as a mid range teacher with a few years experience. the more senior perhaps equalled an MP. <br />Backtrack another 20 years and my mid-range staff would have been at least EQUAL to an MP in salary.<br />TODAY? Well TODAY , even with the massive increases in the salaries of top jobs in LAs I would likely now ONLY have the salary of an MP but WITHOUT the tax free perks.<br />I would earn somewhat LESS than a common or garden GP (courtesy total incompetence by the Govt in determining contracts).<br />My staff would (and those still serving are) earning rather less than GPs and even teachers with similar levels of professional skill.<br /><br />And these MPs really THINK that they are "entitled" to expenses equal to another £40k taxed salary? (which equates to £24k after tax).<br /><br />enough IS enough.Cameron must not just threaten he must SACK. "they are jealous" seems to be the REAL attitude of many.<br />Given the numerical superiority of the Labour benches then the Tories and Liberals will suffer much LESS than NuLab.<br />So gather the cojones David and be effing RUTHLESS. Brown will forget WHERE his balls (if any) actually are.<br /><br />Anger is at its height. TWO Question Times prove it and I'd reckon, after tonight, TWO "any questions".<br />I remember a Paris taxi-driver pointing out that the Bastille no longer existed when we passed La Place de la Bastille.<br />Think on Westminster. Do NOT assume because you could have a very nasty surprise. I'm researching sources for rope!bewickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02808667730361613052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-6140613905506190352009-05-22T19:29:22.436+01:002009-05-22T19:29:22.436+01:00The story is not what the Fees Office passed. The...The story is not what the Fees Office passed. The truth that needs outing is who was telling them to pass the many outrageous claims besides the Speaker.<br /><br />I have said this before and repeat it in the hope that someone will eventually pick it up and pursue the truth to the Nth degree; The Party whips of all parties were using the Fees Office as a "tool" for controlling the outcomes of votes, none more so than the Labour Whips.<br /><br />Sneer all you want at receipted claims for "cleaning moats" and "duck islands" but, "food claims" totalling £18,800 over a four year period with not one single receipt!!! <br /><br />Michael Martin might have been the head of the octopus stealing from the public purse but, the Whips were the many arms dishing it out.Flemingcragnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-64154300536651861792009-05-22T19:10:25.238+01:002009-05-22T19:10:25.238+01:00As far as one can tell this whole affair and the r...As far as one can tell this whole affair and the reaction of the MPs shows that they regard this as a Spartan offence - getting caught.<br /><br />The Telegraph snitched on them, the bloody Fees Office didn't control them, senior colleagues advised them to fill their boots, they are not good at bookkeeping, mathematics are not their strong suit, the "rules" are confusing, they were busy.<br /><br />Every single one of those excuses shows with great clarity that they had no right whatsoever to be in Parliament in the first place.<br /><br />Small wonder that debates in the House throw up some members who can hardly put three words together in an intelligible sequence, especially the plants at PMQs who appear to be illiterate - they cannot even read what was written down for them by the Whips.<br /><br />A common defence is that we don't pay them enough - they could earn far more in civvy street. That is true of some but many of them couldn't earn money as rat catchers or janitors.<br /><br />It is a disgrace that our democracy even allows people who are totally unsuited to be elected at all. That is largely due to tribal loyalties which throw up Andy Capp on the one side and Colonel Blimp on the other.Victor, NW Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14778890471547456396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-82394162374718226292009-05-22T19:05:10.462+01:002009-05-22T19:05:10.462+01:00Most of the comments to this point seem to suggest...Most of the comments to this point seem to suggest that the Fees Office onlt followed the rules and that MPs are exclusively to blame. Yes, some of them took the system for everything they could; but while the Fees Office did challenge a lot of claims it seems clear that it was at best sypathetic and at worst negligent over applying the "Wholly, Necessarily and Exclusively" test that would have eliminated or reduced many of the expenses over which the Telegraph has made hay. <br /><br />I hope the Committee on Standards in Public Life will recommend that the NAO audits the Fees Office to ensure that the test is rigorously enforced.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-30288022732247713612009-05-22T18:43:33.620+01:002009-05-22T18:43:33.620+01:00The Fleas in the Tlaws Office are to blame.The Fleas in the Tlaws Office are to blame.Bryan Dunleavyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13550652628913169630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-67958832985652371792009-05-22T18:32:47.784+01:002009-05-22T18:32:47.784+01:00So it's all the fault of the fees office. Individu...So it's all the fault of the fees office. Individuals who allegedly were able enough to make the laws of the land were seduced into claiming for duck ponds, ladders and other essential to carry out the work of an MP by a bunch of jobsworths. This is becoming farcical. They have been found out full stop. This isn't a party political matter. It is matter of character. I'm a Labour Party member of 40 years standing and Cameron has played a blinder in my opinion. As for Dorries and her nonsense about suicide watch. Grow up woman and get a life. The way most people I speak to feel about Steen and co is that they would pull the trigger without a second thought. If anyone thinks that the Telegraph was wrong then they should go to the Guardian and look at Luff's generation game list. Of course I forgot he lives in an accident prone household.Max Robespierrenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-46659816845412451912009-05-22T18:31:38.896+01:002009-05-22T18:31:38.896+01:00Just been over at Guido's and Dorries is getting a...Just been over at Guido's and Dorries is getting a real pasting. Some disgusting sexual stuff as well - I thought he was your friend, Iain?Red Ridingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-7993907204272747582009-05-22T18:28:18.579+01:002009-05-22T18:28:18.579+01:00Pravda doing their best to turn expenses into a To...Pravda doing their best to turn expenses into a Tory Story. Our Nadine was the star of the News at Six. In fact I agree with Paul Halstall, but she has walked straight into a trap set by the media wing of the Labour party. She needs to be a lot smarter than that.Oscar Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09423019456579337438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-42180032200759740452009-05-22T18:26:57.210+01:002009-05-22T18:26:57.210+01:00Absolutely 100% not. How can you, as a Conservativ...Absolutely 100% not. How can you, as a Conservative, say that, because of the laxity of the fees office, somone who calls himself "The Honourable" is not responsible for his own actions?<br /><br />Do you short change restaurants and hope they don't notice?<br /><br />Do you underpay your tax hoping that HMRC will let it go?<br /><br />Do you mug someone on the basis that the Old Bill will never track you down?<br /><br />Some of the posts you have been putting up recently have made me re-assess just exactly where you stand. And this one makes me think you are on the side of the baddies.john millernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-67568601580663426742009-05-22T18:14:57.982+01:002009-05-22T18:14:57.982+01:00If there were any honour within a square mile of W...If there were any honour within a square mile of Westminster, Brown, Cameron and Clegg would all resign. If they knew what was going on they should resign as leaders of their respective parties - the buck stops here. If they didn't know what was going on they should resign as an admission of incompetence.wonderfulforhisagenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-61797528396903725652009-05-22T18:14:35.906+01:002009-05-22T18:14:35.906+01:00Bottom line: 2 choices -
We actually swallow the g...Bottom line: 2 choices -<br />We actually swallow the guff that MPs are too thick to realise what they were doing was wrong (regardless of what the rules say - and they don't say that a MP can claim for all the stuff we find most have) and it's the rules/fees office who's to blame guv;<br />Or, we accept the fact that they think we're all fools.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-47706267350014799182009-05-22T18:03:50.102+01:002009-05-22T18:03:50.102+01:00Christ, just saw Nadine Dorries on the Six O'Clock...Christ, just saw Nadine Dorries on the Six O'Clock news. Not good. I'm loathed to call her by her nick name but increasingly it fits.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-27642883047881475312009-05-22T18:02:24.424+01:002009-05-22T18:02:24.424+01:00What are we trying to say here?
That the attitude...What are we trying to say here?<br /><br />That the attitude of the Fees Office ought to have been to say, "we know the House has passed the following set of rules and guidelines, but frankly we don't like them so we're just going to operate our own rules and guidelines as we see fit." Really?Ricardo's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10570395129957821807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90763538904840114332009-05-22T17:57:07.336+01:002009-05-22T17:57:07.336+01:00Could they close the Fees Office and replace it wi...Could they close the Fees Office and replace it with a polling website, so the public have the choice to approve everything?Chris Gilmourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527672702704849717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-84896985559158297842009-05-22T17:55:37.869+01:002009-05-22T17:55:37.869+01:00I was astounded to discover from C4 News yesterday...I was astounded to discover from C4 News yesterday that the Fees Office actually turned down Vigger's claim for his duck house. So it wasn't paid for by the taxpayer after all. Most news outlets, including the vast BBC coverage, never let that duck out of the bag. Indeed it's clearly been one big duck decoy.Oscar Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09423019456579337438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-66237436551171868212009-05-22T17:32:08.956+01:002009-05-22T17:32:08.956+01:00I've been saying here and elsewhere for a very lon...I've been saying here and elsewhere for a very long time that the Fees Office is a) incompetent and, b) certainly complicit in this whole shambles. <br /><br />When I first made such comments there were those who immediately and vehemently argued in support of the Fees Office. Where are they now?<br /><br />But the real question is why did the Fees Office personnel decide to aid and actively encourage fraud on such a massive scale? Did any of these individuals think about what they were, apparently, expected to say and do? Did none of them actually question the legality and/or ethics of what was going on? Was/is Andrew Walker a law unto himself?<br /><br />And who in Parliament was/is responsible for overseeing their operations? Whilst I believe that the Fees Office people were - probably still are - up to no good, the question is why? <br /><br />As others here have posted, Cui Bono?Unsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307116169498533047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-30185845287184469902009-05-22T17:26:57.698+01:002009-05-22T17:26:57.698+01:00Firday Afternoon update. With corpse warning<A HREF="http://thatsnews.blogspot.com/2009/05/friday-afternoon-update-with-corpse.html" REL="nofollow">Firday Afternoon update. With corpse warning</A>Thats Newshttp://thatsnews.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com