tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post6265041148908898798..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Labour Candidate Calls For Abolition of Child BenefitIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-55844889075645606432009-02-01T19:45:00.000+00:002009-02-01T19:45:00.000+00:00Completely the wrong target; it's the tax credits ...Completely the wrong target; it's the tax credits 'system' (haha) that should (must?) be abolished. <BR/><BR/>@Stella : cut/abolish the SureStart programme? In our dreams; sadly it is not Tory policy.OBC Newshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05199336701581647524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-88491391954147663102009-02-01T15:26:00.000+00:002009-02-01T15:26:00.000+00:00It is not exactly a well thought out article but i...It is not exactly a well thought out article but it is certainly not calling for abolition of the child benefit money (rather the reverse) but only to streamline the system by making them part of the normal tax system. Tories have often, correctly, lamented the degree of overlap, duplication & needless complexity in the tax system & benefits system. I think Iain is being mischevious.neil craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09157898238945726349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-77398497798084289672009-02-01T08:54:00.000+00:002009-02-01T08:54:00.000+00:00I have now spent some time researching this and th...I have now spent some time researching this and there is only one logical conclusion.<BR/><BR/>Merging Child Benefit into Tax Credits, (of which I believe there are two - Working Tax Credit and Child Tax Credit - hardly a "myriad"), would mean the end of Child Benefit payments for those who do not receive, (or don't apply for), Tax Credits.<BR/><BR/>Either Stella did not realise the implications of what she wrote - which is a hanging offence for a PPC - or she did and is indeed calling for this to happen.<BR/><BR/>Which is it Stella?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63618461683345086832009-02-01T08:47:00.000+00:002009-02-01T08:47:00.000+00:00Dick, would you get in touch with me?mail@johnjcmo...Dick, would you get in touch with me?<BR/><BR/>mail@johnjcmoss.com.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-23151570252001748602009-02-01T01:47:00.000+00:002009-02-01T01:47:00.000+00:00I dunno but benefits need to be incentivised. I us...I dunno but benefits need to be incentivised. I used to have responsibility for Shannon Matthews' estate - 7 kids, 5X fathers = more cash, yet not enough? I've not weighed in until now and don't know enough and almost care less but at no objective level can benefits be seen to be working.Dick the Prickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02683095612320513712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-58451015052132989372009-02-01T00:54:00.000+00:002009-02-01T00:54:00.000+00:00In which Labour goes mad and starts gnawing on its...In which Labour goes mad and starts gnawing on its own feet whilst shouting: "Ooh! This is tasty!"<BR/><BR/>mv = messag<BR/><BR/>A truncated message? Perhaps.<BR/><BR/>BTW, I know five families who were on Tax Credits. All five were told they had been overpaid, and all ended up paying MORE back than they actually received in Tax Credits.<BR/><BR/>Thanks to G. Brown inventing a ridiculously complex Tax and Tax Credit system. <BR/><BR/>One reason for combining Child Allowance with Tax Credits is because the latter is now so utterly discredited that many people will be too worried of getting massive bills to bother to apply.Martin Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04148241391183658112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90729085111404816462009-01-31T22:22:00.000+00:002009-01-31T22:22:00.000+00:00Aww, is Old Holborn gonna threaten to close his bl...Aww, is Old Holborn gonna threaten to close his blog if I don't go to bed?The Grim Reaperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05543130733645367498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-87444901147688002092009-01-31T22:16:00.000+00:002009-01-31T22:16:00.000+00:00Grim ReaperI've told you before. Tidy your room, f...Grim Reaper<BR/><BR/>I've told you before. Tidy your room, finish your homework and BED. It's LATE.Old Holbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10164491045068093627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-25529732604401055192009-01-31T22:15:00.000+00:002009-01-31T22:15:00.000+00:00I'm with GuthrumYou want benefits?Insure yourself ...I'm with Guthrum<BR/><BR/>You want benefits?<BR/><BR/>Insure yourself then.<BR/><BR/>Want kids?<BR/><BR/>Pay for them then.<BR/><BR/>Oh wait. I can do ANYTHING! Someone else is paying!<BR/><BR/>The difference between a welfare state and a totalitarian state is just a matter of time.Old Holbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10164491045068093627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-85740088888435363922009-01-31T22:13:00.000+00:002009-01-31T22:13:00.000+00:00Old Holborn, do the Tory Party really need another...Old Holborn, do the Tory Party really need another third-rate MP on their side?The Grim Reaperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05543130733645367498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-70059796157269174522009-01-31T21:52:00.000+00:002009-01-31T21:52:00.000+00:00Kerry McCarthy MP is having a real crisisShe doesn...Kerry McCarthy MP is having a real crisis<BR/><BR/>She doesn't want to be New Labour anymore<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://kerry-mccarthy.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow"> HERE </A><BR/><BR/>Who can blame her? Invite her for a coffee IainOld Holbornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10164491045068093627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-32990278898741997132009-01-31T20:53:00.000+00:002009-01-31T20:53:00.000+00:00You're right, Iain. It would be a brave political ...You're right, Iain. It would be a brave political party to put this in a manifesto.<BR/><BR/>Hence why your beloved Tories wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.The Grim Reaperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05543130733645367498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12881695508817118162009-01-31T20:19:00.000+00:002009-01-31T20:19:00.000+00:00I don't see why anyone should be paid to breed. if...I don't see why anyone should be paid to breed. if you wants kids,pay for them yourselves.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14686070463748303906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-24588795877257995782009-01-31T20:02:00.000+00:002009-01-31T20:02:00.000+00:00Oh i really do get fed up when Tories twist a stor...Oh i really do get fed up when Tories twist a story to suit their own needs. I've read the article and not once does she mention abolition of child benefit. It is quite clear that Stella Creasy is exploring ideas that'll lead to the poorest in our society receiving more help from the state. Is that not a good thing?? Opps I forgot you're Tories . Helping the less fortunate isn't your bag!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12436919704685945246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90184061625075475942009-01-31T19:47:00.000+00:002009-01-31T19:47:00.000+00:00@ Stella CreasyWhat does 'merge' mean? I wonder w...@ Stella Creasy<BR/><BR/>What does 'merge' mean? I wonder what it entails? Do you know?Unsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307116169498533047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-67442106539538237732009-01-31T19:46:00.000+00:002009-01-31T19:46:00.000+00:00@ John Moss"And yes, FB, a sort of parachute job -...@ John Moss<BR/><BR/>"And yes, FB, a sort of parachute job - All-Female selection. Please do get your colleagues to get in touch with us, we need all the help we can get."<BR/><BR/>Delighted to - I'm happy to argue policy with a PPC who won the position on merit, but not with one who obtained it simply on the back of a skewed Labour 'Gender Ticket'.<BR/><BR/>This suggestion by Ms. Creasy to effectively abolish Child Benefit should play nicely on the doorsteps of E17, don't you think? - I feel a leaflet drop coming on...Faceless Bureaucrathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05645935991790673158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-77378704820756971342009-01-31T19:35:00.000+00:002009-01-31T19:35:00.000+00:00Things are hotting up. Stella has responded on my ...Things are hotting up. Stella has responded on my blog as well<BR/><BR/>http://mossjohnblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/labour-candidate-calls-for-cuts-in.html#comments<BR/><BR/><I>Stella Said</I><BR/><BR/>John<BR/><BR/>Sorry to disappoint- if you read Iain's blog and indeed my response to your posting on labour list you'll see quite clearly that you've misinterpreted my article. <BR/><BR/>I'm sure you didn't mean to but hopefully these comments will clarify that I don't want to abolish the universal benefit of child benefit- I do however want to abolish child poverty hence the ideas in the article. <BR/><BR/>I'm sure we'll be debating again and as I said on labourlist anytime you want to come down to Walthamstow and talk further about what we should be doing for local families you'd be very welcome to visit!<BR/><BR/><I>I Replied</I><BR/><BR/>"..our next priority should be to merge the myriad of child benefit and tax credit schemes, and in the process broaden their coverage to lift more families permanently off low incomes."<BR/><BR/>These are your words and the active word is "merge". Do you want to merge Child Benefit into Tax Credits or not? If you do, how do you square that with universal Child Benefit? <BR/><BR/>I'm a radical welfare reformer and would love to open this box and have it debated rationally and sensibly, but you are a PPC - you speak officially for your party. <BR/><BR/>Is this Labour policy or not?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-10249565672282291672009-01-31T19:18:00.000+00:002009-01-31T19:18:00.000+00:00I love the word “courageous” when linked to a poli...I love the word “courageous” when linked to a political idea. It seems to me that we could so with more “courageous” ideas. Whether that is what the author meant or not doesn’t really matter.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I do not believe that child benefit should be universal and this is from someone who has children and doesn’t get tax credits. I didn’t have children to get money from the state and I do not believe that I should be entitled to receive it. The problem with Government (and note I said Government not this Government even though I would prefer a Conservative victory) is the system is now so complicated, no mainstream party would propose such as scheme as they wouldn’t get voted in.<BR/><BR/>Others on this blog have said it but a plan to completely overhaul the benefits systems from top to bottom (rather than tinkering around the edges) would be courageous and very welcome. <BR/><BR/>Incidentally, another courageous policy would be to scrap the current civil service pension scheme for all new recruits into the service. I won’t hold my breath though.Decoremhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14525029202178211222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-48113535115496265172009-01-31T19:14:00.001+00:002009-01-31T19:14:00.001+00:00Iain (dearheart) I agree that universal child ben...Iain (dearheart) <BR/><BR/>I agree that universal child benefit is a good thing. I don’t want to abolish it and never have said such a thing. If you read the sentence you’ll find it talks about the “myriad of child benefit and tax credit schemes”. Overlooking the word myriad may excite Mr Moss and yourself but doesn’t tell the truth about my article or the policy ideas it proposes to tackle child poverty. <BR/><BR/>On the otherhand I’m concerned for you that you don’t appear to be upto speed with David Cameron’s stated plans for cuts to funding for Surestart as set out in the “Helping New Families” policy document published last March. I agree with you that such cuts would be a bad thing – hope you raise those concerns in your debates with your colleagues. Happy too to provide you with evidence of the impact this would have on your former stomping ground of Walthamstow. <BR/><BR/>All the best <BR/><BR/>StellaUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01191401600141423640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-23127050439858671302009-01-31T19:14:00.000+00:002009-01-31T19:14:00.000+00:00John, as child benefit isn't means or circumstance...John, as child benefit isn't means or circumstance tested, it is one of the few payments which wouldn't be lost if a parent started working.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I think the approach should be the opposite of the one that was being suggested; get rid of tax credits and if there is a need, increase child benefit.<BR/><BR/>I'd do the same with benefits for unemployment - instead of paying people for being unemployed, give everybody that payment irrespective of their status. People would no longer have to worry about ending up off worse off by working.Paul Locketthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00201807319614893054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-305161566747572142009-01-31T19:13:00.000+00:002009-01-31T19:13:00.000+00:00Iain"I lived in Walthamstow for several years, by ...Iain<BR/><BR/>"I lived in Walthamstow for several years, by the way. Howard Road."<BR/><BR/>They've found the antidote, then?Unsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307116169498533047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-73419279520240992432009-01-31T19:12:00.000+00:002009-01-31T19:12:00.000+00:00@ Stella CreaseyWhat's an 'agenda'?@ Stella Creasey<BR/><BR/>What's an 'agenda'?Unsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307116169498533047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-51994839444098947812009-01-31T18:39:00.000+00:002009-01-31T18:39:00.000+00:00Stella, darling. You attack me for ascribing motiv...Stella, darling. You attack me for ascribing motives and policies to you and then you do the same to me.<BR/><BR/>It can only end in tears.<BR/><BR/>So let's get this straight. Do you think child benefit should continue to be paid universally in its current manner or not. If you do, why did you write that it should be merged with tax credits, which are not paid to everyone.<BR/><BR/>Yours<BR/><BR/>Confused, ex of E17<BR/><BR/>PS Leave Sure Start out of it. It's a deviation tactic and is irrelevant, although just for clarity's sake, I can't find any reference to abolishing SureStart in Tory policy documents. Another Labour scare story, peut etre?Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-57123825624434896912009-01-31T18:38:00.000+00:002009-01-31T18:38:00.000+00:00Surely it would be wiser to drop the working tax c...Surely it would be wiser to drop the working tax credit for everyone*, if they work and "need money" then they shouldn't be paying any tax for sure (raise the allowance then). I can't imagine many after that would need money.<BR/><BR/>Then just limit child tax credit to the poorer.<BR/><BR/>Working tax credits make the least sense, why on earth should somebody working pay tax and then have to go cap in hand to the Government? They should just tax working people less.NameHerehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09233787213173213973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-87666584146889298852009-01-31T18:34:00.000+00:002009-01-31T18:34:00.000+00:00Hi IainWe could practically have been neighbours a...Hi Iain<BR/><BR/>We could practically have been neighbours at one time! <BR/><BR/>Let me repeat that I didn’t call for the abolition of child benefit. In fact I said we needed to extend the coverage of benefits and tax credits we offer families. That you make a presumption this means abolishing benefits speaks volumes about your agenda not mine. But then you also want to cut Surestart so I guess it’s not difficult to see why you would make that mistake. But a mistake it is, just as cutting Surestart would be - so please don’t ascribe to me your own ideas about how best to end child poverty, as they are very clearly not mine! <BR/><BR/>All the best<BR/><BR/>Stella CreasyUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01191401600141423640noreply@blogger.com