tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post6209960533196685125..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: An Easy Target?Iain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger76125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-85609236504124583692010-05-05T23:26:02.281+01:002010-05-05T23:26:02.281+01:00Everybody's up in arms, wanting to know why th...Everybody's up in arms, wanting to know why the story isn't reaching the news. Here's why: Stroud is not homophobic. So to go ahead with a story which heavily implies or indeeds states that she is homophobic is slander (or libellous.) The problem with this story is the whole 'curing homosexuality' issue. Rest assured, there is no van driving around with a big net hanging out of it, rounding up homosexuals and 'converting' or 'curing' them. People go to church for all kinds of prayer. They themselves make that decision. No one is EVER exposed or shamed into 'changing their ways'. You either want a relationship with God, or you don't. As simple as that. Understand the Father's heart, how much God loves you and wants your best. All this talk of 'dangerous practices', 'extremeist views'... its such twaddle. Yes, if you don't believe in God or belong to a church and have a real relationship with God, then of course any talk of spirituality is lost on you. You probably don't care and don't want to know - and that's fine, its your choice. God gives us all free will to make decisions for ourselves. Again, the issue here will never be clear, because you're dealing with a subject not of this world - spirituality. What people are essentially asking Stroud to do is explain her beliefs, therefore explain Christianity, Satan, and how the demonic works. If people want these answers then go to church and ask the leaders. I'm not a Conservative and never will be (probably!), but I am a Christian and I would emplore people to find out the truth for themselves, not what misinformed journalists have to say on the matter.Andy Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02894623162965158359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-57094159889060679632010-05-05T10:40:38.981+01:002010-05-05T10:40:38.981+01:00This is an encouraging post. Thanks for your well-...This is an encouraging post. Thanks for your well-balanced and reasoned thoughts. Thank you for not jumping on the bandwagon, but giving your honest opinion based on the insight of knowing Philippa personally!Liam Thatcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14181154550055637367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-7228387453962289532010-05-04T03:04:05.070+01:002010-05-04T03:04:05.070+01:00Iain, what a very nice piece of writing. You are s...Iain, what a very nice piece of writing. You are spot on.PIENOMICShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11846925617061061673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-9741411066478144332010-05-03T23:29:31.400+01:002010-05-03T23:29:31.400+01:00"What is genuinely worrying about this is the..."What is genuinely worrying about this is the sign that the fundamentalist Christian right is...making inroads into one of our major parties at a senior level...They will make the Daily Mail look like the Guardian!"<br /><br />Yeah right! Is that the best you can come up with?wildhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14437167510102273197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-41846435815277264302010-05-03T22:38:13.611+01:002010-05-03T22:38:13.611+01:00"...my inner logic tells me that there can be..."...my inner logic tells me that there can be no such thing as a God. And until something or someone can prove the opposite to me, I won't be changing my view."<br /><br />Consider these photos:<br /><br />http://creation.com/marvellous-moth-motifDitarihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03757763645211462817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-36189756560010670602010-05-03T20:36:52.567+01:002010-05-03T20:36:52.567+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.wildhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14437167510102273197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63121153214128358862010-05-03T19:45:33.930+01:002010-05-03T19:45:33.930+01:00Further to my comments above, if the suggestions i...Further to my comments above, if the suggestions in this thread that fundie 'xtians are seen to be making or about to make a successful play to hijack the Tory party in Militant Tendency style, then that alone for me would make the Tory brand utterly toxic. I'd be looking at the least worst option to keep the religious loonies out of government. The march of Opus Dei into the heart of the Labour government scared the shit out of me, and judging by the war/body count under Blair, if religion was influencing his agenda, it was a lot more 'Crusades/Inquisition' than 'Love thy Neighbour/Turn the other cheek'.<br /><br />Anyway, clandestine evangelical fundies setting Tory social policy leaves the choice for a right-of-centre libertarian as Lib-Dem or UKIP. <br /><br />I'm not voting for any party where the social agenda is set by these kind of evil f******s, however much they have collectively worked out that not outraging the Tory party's 'tame homosexual' is a good idea for PR/Spin purposes. Post election, don't be surprised if the rhetoric changes and you get ignored a lot more or told what is good for you, Iain.Ken Haylockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02298100658896511024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-61103101544595056952010-05-03T19:14:13.573+01:002010-05-03T19:14:13.573+01:00What is genuinely worrying about this is the sign ...What is genuinely worrying about this is the sign that the fundamentalist Christian right is mobilising politically and making inroads into one of our major parties at a senior level.<br /><br />We've seen how that's worked out for political discourse in the US - no American candidate for high office could ever say what Clegg did in the 2nd debate, that he's not a man of faith.<br /><br />If left unchallenged these people will drag the Tories further to the right on social issues. They will make the Daily Mail look like the Guardian!<br /><br />Fundamentalist Christians are the Tory's Militant Tendency and Cameron needs to stand up to them. Does he have the courage?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-8232699988121220212010-05-03T17:48:33.837+01:002010-05-03T17:48:33.837+01:00Despairing Liberal,
If you can supply evidence th...Despairing Liberal,<br /><br />If you can supply evidence that indicates that Philippa Stroud wants homosexual behaviour to be illegal you might have a point, but you haven't, so you don't.<br /><br />A free society is not a society in which everybody has to agree on everything, it is a society in which people have the freedom to live as they choose.mulknacwildhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14437167510102273197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-44994165430761925262010-05-03T16:09:39.549+01:002010-05-03T16:09:39.549+01:00Wild, no fundamentalist Christian believes in a &q...Wild, no fundamentalist Christian believes in a "free society" as we know it. As can be seen from the US (and African - see above) examples, it is only a short step from their takeover of political institutions to the bombing of abortion clinics, the banning of minorities from schools until their "demons have been cast out" and the like.<br /><br />It is really quite preposterous that a woman who holds such views has such a big part in the policy making of what is likely to be the largest party after the election. Frankly, I find the hand-wringing apologias going on in Tory blogland about this quite nauseating.DespairingLiberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02903904463236135611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19759232273200028972010-05-03T15:19:47.130+01:002010-05-03T15:19:47.130+01:00The simple fact is this.
We all know that if dama...The simple fact is this.<br /><br />We all know that if damaging false allegations are made against a politician in a national newspaper the normal response is an extremely swift and categorical rebuttal.<br /><br />The article in the Observer was published yesterday morning. Philippa Stroud's response was to issue a statement denying an allegation which no one had actually made, and totally ignoring the allegation that _had_ been made, namely that she believed that homosexuality was the result of demonic possession and had herself participated in attempts at exorcism.<br /><br />Her other response, apparently, was to delete her Twitter account and her Facebook supporters group.<br /><br />Clearly her strategy is to cut off channels of communication in order to avoid making any meaningful comment on these allegations before polling day. If she were in a position to issue a straightforward denial, there is no way she would behave as she has done.<br /><br />That's simple common sense, and her party colleagues must appreciate it as well as anyone else.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12712245849937541566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-73912473240829019382010-05-03T14:17:35.142+01:002010-05-03T14:17:35.142+01:00Stroud said a lady who was in an abusive relations...Stroud said a lady who was in an abusive relationship was in a mess because she indulged in demonic activity through her lesbian relationships. Surely, all are God's children and we don't choose how we're created. You don't choose to be gay any more than I choose for my skin to be brown. Other people in the Tory party should point out the danger in this sort of belief. It's dangerous to dismiss it as usual Christian belief. It isn't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-84387559478188434502010-05-03T14:11:31.211+01:002010-05-03T14:11:31.211+01:00I see a lot of hate and eagerness to persecute on ...I see a lot of hate and eagerness to persecute on these pages, and it is not coming from Philippa Stroud.<br /><br />Does Philippa Stroud believe in a free society (in which people have the freedom to live their lives in their own way) or not?<br /><br />If the answer is yes, then the baying mob of heterosexual Leftists should go away and reflect on their own conduct for a change.wildhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14437167510102273197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-60417408845727417792010-05-03T14:11:31.212+01:002010-05-03T14:11:31.212+01:00There should be a limit to tribal politics. This s...There should be a limit to tribal politics. This should worry you. It should worry anyone who believes that people develop through the exercise of reason. I go to church. I'm from Africa. In the 1970s, many wealthy pentecostals like Gould and her American pals started to found churches in Africa. We started to hear about demonic activity. Suddenly, everything bad was down to demonic activity, not govt corruption or illiteracy. Educational standards dropped, poverty spiralled, crime and child abuse became common place. A naughty child would be taken to church for the demons to be cast out. A rebellious teenager would be called a victim of demonic activity. politics became a joke as wealthy people knew they could call on people's superstition instead of engaging in debate. Now that Cameron wishes to involve charities as a replacement for the state, how many of these would be run by these pentecostal christians? It'd be ironic that just as Africans are waking up to the danger of this demonic type of Christianity and abandoning these crazy churches, Britain, the land of John Hume, is about to import such crazy thoughts into the heart of the governing party. The effects of the likes of Gould would be felt in this country in about 3 decades, when the UK becomes the dunce of the developed world. I'm shocked you don't see the danger that this woman's dangerous beliefs pose to British society.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-45254453331207601762010-05-03T11:15:00.929+01:002010-05-03T11:15:00.929+01:00Is it "unbiblical" waddell? Isn't th...Is it "unbiblical" waddell? Isn't that the problem? The Bible surely has stuff in it about stoning to death of various people. It's all in the interpretation. However, this is what makes Fundamentalists of any religion so dangerous - once you've gone down a mental track of believing in the infallibility of the Bible, or any other religious text, it's only a short road to Holy Inquisitions, burnings at the stake and the massacres of entire peoples.<br /><br />Even the modern "non-religious" fundamentalisms of the last 100 years like Nazism and Communism were essentially quasi-religious. For example, it is surely no coincidence that it was Germany, long riven by the bitterest religious wars, gave rise to a state religion advocating mass-murder of Jews, homosexuals, gypsies and outsiders - all traditional hate-objects for the feudal citizenry of the Holy Roman Empire. These are the same forces that motivate anti-semitic parties and individuals across Europe today, at least some of whom are presently in alliance with the Conservative Party in Europe.<br /><br />Put that together with the sinister and scary fact that David Cameron, an apparently modern and rational person, draws on much of his social policy from a woman holding such views and you have quite something to contemplate.<br /><br />We may all be getting more than we bargained for with an incoming Tory government. Looks like we are actually going to need a Balanced Parliament to introduce some calm rationality.DespairingLiberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02903904463236135611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-87603909904586291432010-05-03T10:51:20.020+01:002010-05-03T10:51:20.020+01:00It struck me that the article had very little to s...It struck me that the article had very little to say about Philippa Stroud. She is muddied by association, and does not face much by way of direct accusation. What the Bible says about homosexuality is hardly news, but I've no doubt there are people in every church who take an extreme (and actually unbiblical) attitude to the issue. There's no suggestion that Philippa Stroud is one of those people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-84574086846903674672010-05-03T09:57:42.790+01:002010-05-03T09:57:42.790+01:00This is absoloutely ridiculous, I thought the Libe...This is absoloutely ridiculous, I thought the Liberals were the nice party. If you make an accusation, its up to you to prove it and so far no one has proven anything. I dont believe this angry young lady, maybe Im wrong but I would like a little more prrof like maybe a tape recording. The Liberal Democrats are really the least serious party in this election campaign, they stand for nothing and everything, sp ypu lot can smear all you like whilst accusing others of doing the same thing but just understand the more the public look at your policys the less they like you but not to worry Im sure you will just turn over the fag packet and scribble something else down.jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13012198258609412862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-84606316679167794562010-05-03T09:38:45.557+01:002010-05-03T09:38:45.557+01:00Phillipa Stroud is a good, decent person who has d...Phillipa Stroud is a good, decent person who has done so much for the marginalised in society. Even if she had once had such misguided opinions as a younger person, people do change their vews - it is called evolving and growing up. When I was a teenager I was an anarchist so what? Get over it.Lady Finchleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03695379463537122656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-72547198202196067772010-05-03T08:23:38.221+01:002010-05-03T08:23:38.221+01:00Doesn't your logic equate disability with homo...Doesn't your logic equate disability with homosexuality? I'm sure the article was rather overblown,and it's clear Ms Stroud has donated vast amounts of her life for the benefit of others, but I can't accept that gay people are a group that need to be set aside and prayed for. It's patronising at best and bonkers at worst...Pavilionopinionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06317555913793897157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-23898204710960810822010-05-03T08:14:22.408+01:002010-05-03T08:14:22.408+01:00Well, at least next time Iain gets in a state, we ...Well, at least next time Iain gets in a state, we can blame it on his demons. (Joking Iain).DespairingLiberalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02903904463236135611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-52062045797956060822010-05-03T08:01:52.024+01:002010-05-03T08:01:52.024+01:00I am not a supporter of the Conservatives, the Lib...I am not a supporter of the Conservatives, the Lib Dems or the Labour party. I am not gay, bisexual or transsexual.<br /><br />Read Abi's story of how she was treated by Philippa Stroud and her fellow church members and you will realise that Stroud, far from being someone who cares for people, is a cruel and dangerous lunatic.<br /><br />Fundamentalist religion, be it Christian, Moslem, or whatever, is a very real threat to the peace of the world. Fanatical Moslems will happily blow up themselves and thousand of others in order to achieve "paradise". In the USA there are 30 million Cristian Evangelicals who believe that we are in "the last days". These people are not, as Iain would have it, "slightly bizarre", they are raving nutcases who are looking for a nuclear holocaust in the Middle East so that they can be taken up in "the rapture" to sit at God's right hand.<br /><br />One of the world's biggest problems is the hold that religion, a primitive hangover from prehistoric times, can have on people.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11283180011842680227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-5633491183411224692010-05-03T02:00:25.400+01:002010-05-03T02:00:25.400+01:00Iain, I would have hoped for less political bias o...Iain, I would have hoped for less political bias on what is a very serious issue and an issue regarding LGBT rights which is blighting the Tories at the moment. It's disappointing that you are shrugging the comments off so easily.<br /><br />Philippa Stroud hasn't denied that she believes that homosexuality is caused by demons or is a sin, which is what the Observer is accusing her of. She has merely responded using specific words in an attempt to manipulate the situation in her favour.<br /><br />No one is saying she isn't a good person, but her judgment is wrong on this if the reports are true.<br /><br />The wider public have a right to know, as this follows Cameron's stuttering interview with Gay Times, Chris Grayling and Julian Lewis.<br /><br />There are worrying signs that LGBT inequality continues to blight large sections of the Tory party. As Anastasia Beaumont-Bott said: "I became disillusioned after meeting one too many people in that party who were not like what the leader was saying the party was about. I like him, but the insides of his party are not what the people are led to believe." She has now joined Labour.<br /><br />It's unsurprising that the Tories have lost the support of many of those concerned with LGBT rights.Simon Pattersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13513259716365097678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-35596064911384764622010-05-03T01:41:30.657+01:002010-05-03T01:41:30.657+01:00Somebody who sincerely believes that homosexuality...Somebody who sincerely believes that homosexuality is a symptom of demonic possession may indeed be "nice" - religious gibbering nut-jobs don't all have the charmless public persona of the Reverend Ian Paisley. Such a person may even feel deep compassion for you and wish you no ill-will whatsoever, favouring a style of exorcism that doesn't involve burning you alive or even the comfy chair. But, if that _is_ a fair representation of her sincerely held beliefs, then even if I agreed with every other thing she believed and everything she said, and even if she was a paragon of virtue in every respect, and yes, even if me voting against her meant another 5 years of the Broon nightmare, wild horses wouldn't drag me to vote for her. <br /><br />It's not a smear if it's true. If it isn't true, then she should be able to sue the paper back to the stone age and live very comfortably on the payout for some considerable time. However, I note she has angrily denied something other than what was alleged, and refused to answer the newspaper's questions, so I assume she won't be sueing any time soon...Ken Haylockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02298100658896511024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-75916406705924882632010-05-03T00:39:46.539+01:002010-05-03T00:39:46.539+01:00I doubt anyone would dispute Stroud's credenti...I doubt anyone would dispute Stroud's credentials as an advocate for the poor. Indeed, that's clear even from the Observer's article.<br /><br />Cards on the table: I used to be an evangelical Christian (I'm now an atheist). Both your commenters and the Observer don't seem to get the subtleties here. It's true that many orthodox Christian denominations believe in a personal Devil and demons, and maintain exorcists and suchlike to deal with them. Nevertheless, these denominations differ greatly in how readily they will attribute something to demonic influence. I would expect a charismatic denomination like New Frontiers, where believers expect regular spiritual encounters with God, to be more ready to attribute something to demonic influence than, say, the Church of England.<br /><br />Stroud's statement, as quoted by you, does not deny that homosexuality is related to demonic activity (unless you think she also holds the view that all illness is caused by demonic activity, a more extreme position than the Observer attributes to her), nor, in fact, does it deny that she thinks homosexuals' orientation can be changed. I'm sure we'd all be interested to see a clear statement of what a key figure in forming Tory social policy does think on these issues, but the statement you have quoted isn't one.Paul Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07812075028283068443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-8184799450588584102010-05-03T00:05:34.460+01:002010-05-03T00:05:34.460+01:00Let's have a "The Simpson's" sty...Let's have a "The Simpson's" style riot, storm Dale Towers, and get him to confess that Philippa Stroud is a witch.<br /><br />Then again let's not. Grow up gentleman. The ersatz outrage on these pages is frankly nauseating.wildhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14437167510102273197noreply@blogger.com