tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post593722599432941655..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Why I Have to Disagree With Chris GraylingIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger152125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-17680685716063310602010-04-08T13:23:57.761+01:002010-04-08T13:23:57.761+01:00Iain, three years ago the owners of Guyz hotel in ...Iain, three years ago the owners of Guyz hotel in Blackpool said his gay clientele ... <i>"would feel uncomfortable mixing with straight customers."</i><br /><br />http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article1308611.ece<br /><br />Perhaps you could ask him, and the owners of the hotel in Bournemouth who were also quoted by the Times, what they think of this matter.<br /><br />If they still think it would be unreasonable for them to be forced to take heterosexual guests then, surely, the opposite has to apply.Mrs Rigbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06389986110372627649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-55166039231215298012010-04-08T02:23:13.063+01:002010-04-08T02:23:13.063+01:00Phew, what a relief this whole thing has been for ...Phew, what a relief this whole thing has been for me! You see as a smoker I've known for some time that hotel rooms aren't covered by the smoking ban and clearly smoking is a legal activity. But how enlightening it is to discover that all those "No Smoking" signs in B & Bs are illegal as they have to admit anyone into their rooms! Now it's been confirmed they can't turn me away or stop me from doing what I want in my room I shall rest easy feeling that a bit of liberty has been restored to Britain!<br /><br />What, you mean I can stay but I can't smoke? In much the same way these two guys were allowed to saty but weren't allowed to share a bed? Oh how disappointing. But if that's the case why is this even news?<br /><br />I'm confused now. Which is it? Do they have to accept anyone and have no say in what happens in a rented room (as long as it's legal) or are they allowed to turn me away and tell me what to do in there?<br /><br />Answers, please. And no hypocrisy thank you.James Burrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17887499076992310207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-75315873503052317122010-04-07T09:20:43.658+01:002010-04-07T09:20:43.658+01:00> If you open your house to paying
> guests...> If you open your house to paying <br />> guests, it is no longer just your <br />> house.<br /><br />I think it is; it is your private property. You may choose to open it up to say whites only, or whites and blacks and not muslim, or to everyone. The house belongs to you. What you do with it is your own business.<br /><br />The basic rule is; all contracts must be voluntary and well-informed.<br /><br />So you cannot *force* someone else to board you in their motel/hotel/etc, no matter how much you want them to and no matter what reason they have for denying you.<br /><br />To provide an example; say a man has a million pounds and runs a business. Why can't I force him to give me a job, no matter how unqualified I am? if he's running a business, then he's hiring people, so he must hire me!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-69648720923543989562010-04-07T02:09:45.415+01:002010-04-07T02:09:45.415+01:00This is probably only a 1 or 2 seat gaffe, similar...This is probably only a 1 or 2 seat gaffe, similar to Amess's. Much less than Winterton's 5-6 seat gaffe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-80626825063430914962010-04-06T21:24:43.208+01:002010-04-06T21:24:43.208+01:00@IainDale 8:16
"But if you do it because the...@IainDale 8:16<br /><br />"But if you do it because they are black or gay I can assure you you would be in deep trouble."<br /><br />"deep trouble" for sure, but that does not alter the fact of forced slavery. It does not mean that the trouble has to be, or has any right to be, from the State.Roger Thornhillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03591327286533118901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-9012596253070057862010-04-06T09:16:13.415+01:002010-04-06T09:16:13.415+01:00It could be argued that Grayling’s comments are a ...It could be argued that Grayling’s comments are a matter for his own conscience, despite how one feels about them personally. Political thinking and the free exchange of ideas is at serious risk however from recording of private meetings (even be they at think tanks). It’s probably not surprising that citizens are embracing surveillance culture with gusto, but what does this say about our political system, a right to free speech and the ‘reverend rule book’ of Chatham House? Make your fortune now by selling electronic counter-measures to your public representatives! This gaff will not be the last…Steve Nimmonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13824330783782996613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-15670959804525585042010-04-05T21:50:55.165+01:002010-04-05T21:50:55.165+01:00Jimmy would make a good point about "civil li...Jimmy would make a good point about "civil liberties" were it not for the fact that his government would like to lock you up for 90 days for watching the wrong Bollywood film.Moriartyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02636946960473769348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-81200966677911711292010-04-05T21:40:57.729+01:002010-04-05T21:40:57.729+01:00In a 2007 Radio 4 interview Prescott, commenting o...In a 2007 Radio 4 interview Prescott, commenting on his time as a ship’s steward stated: "The thing that struck me most was that when I joined it they didn’t sail out the North, they sailed out the South and there were a lot of gay guys on board and I was quite amazed at this."<br /><br />He went on to say: “And I remember saying, spending three months on a voyage and there were ten gay guys in a room and I said, ‘I’m not staying in a room like this.’ Anyway I went in another room." <br /><br />Prescott’s spokesperson at the time explained the comments away thus: "It is important to put the comments in context. He (Prescott) was talking about a time when he was incredibly young, about seventeen or eighteen and not quite going away for the first time but pretty much. He was getting used to a very different life thousands of miles from home in the days when society was less tolerant than it is today.”Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-73806551793172318332010-04-05T21:18:17.560+01:002010-04-05T21:18:17.560+01:00"I am sorry to say Grayling is wrong on this....<i>"I am sorry to say Grayling is wrong on this."</i><br /><br />How did you resist the temptation to add "end of"?<br /><br />And as for "er" - it is short for "you are a silly fool and I don't need to explain why".Little Black Sambohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699227938165106710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-75636785361047781732010-04-05T20:16:16.489+01:002010-04-05T20:16:16.489+01:00Dave, I am also a retail veteran. You are right. O...Dave, I am also a retail veteran. You are right. Of course you are at liberty to refuse to sell something to someone, or refuse to serve someone. But if you do it because they are black or gay I can assure you you would be in deep trouble.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-86767785309662170952010-04-05T20:13:14.355+01:002010-04-05T20:13:14.355+01:00"No one would accept a shopowner refusing to ..."No one would accept a shopowner refusing to serve a particular type of person, would they?"<br /><br />I'm a retail veteran Iain and you're wrong. Shops are private property. I could and did ask undesirable people to leave my shop. They had no legal right to enter the premises.<br />I could also refuse to serve them. I did not have to sell them anything. I had the right to withdraw any item from sale at any time. I was never under any obligation to sell an item just because someone wished to buy it. If an item was incorrectly priced I could withdraw it from sale, but would often sell it at the lower price in order to foster goodwill. The choice was always mine.<br />You don't get it.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04602485359462793611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-72217297810156877762010-04-05T19:31:05.992+01:002010-04-05T19:31:05.992+01:00Adrian Watson was vetoed a couple of weeks back as...Adrian Watson was vetoed a couple of weeks back as a candidate in S. Antrim for expressing precisely the same view. I'd be interested to hear the reasoning which holds that a view which is consistent with being shadow Home Sec is inconsistent with being a PPC. <br /><br />The trouble is that for tories civil liberties are like a new song to which they haven't yet properly learned the words. Some of them I accept have tried very hard but you get the feeling that it just doesn't come naturally to them.Jimmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01542633492362670045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63520591369725228082010-04-05T17:46:45.351+01:002010-04-05T17:46:45.351+01:00http://cyberboris.wordpress.com/2010/03/30/ricky-m...http://cyberboris.wordpress.com/2010/03/30/ricky-martin-and-adam-lambert/<br /><br />Anyway, what about the right to privacy? Why do the owners of the B&B think they have the right to poke their noses into peoples' sexuality anyway, the kinkos? According to the Equality Act (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2007, no-one should be refused goods or services on the grounds of sexuality.<br /><br />Chris Grayling supported and signed this Act. Why did he do that if he doesn't agree? the B&B owners were therefore breaking the law, and also, I think people have a right to privacy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-262898152917309042010-04-05T17:35:07.890+01:002010-04-05T17:35:07.890+01:00I find your statement - 'I do not think we mu...I find your statement - 'I do not think we must be sensitive to faith groups who promote discrimination and bigotry' utterly outrageous. The owners were NOT promoting any such thing, but holding to their deeply held (Christian) beliefs. <br /><br />It seems to me that certain 'minority' groups are not satisfied merely to have acquired the same rights as 'the rest of us' in law but demand that everyone has to accept their lifestyles on an individual level too. It seems to me that the oppressed have become the oppressors. As far as this couple's poor career choice goes - presumably it follows that if you don't want to authorise abortions, then don't become a Doctor. If you don't want to handle alcohol, then don't work in a supermarket which sells it. And FYI - shopowners frequently refuse to admit - let alone serve some people merely because they are aged 10 - 17 and wearing a hoodie.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09335319830841609058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-65853226789400769842010-04-05T15:18:03.174+01:002010-04-05T15:18:03.174+01:00It's obvious to all but the thickest here that...It's obvious to all but the thickest here that I don't want to "gain sympathy" from the nutjob fringe.<br /><br />The clue is me calling it "nutjob fringe"- it's supposed to be sufficiently unambiguous that even the densest and nutjobbiest can understand where we all stand. Hello Jack.<br /><br />I am actually *defending* my religion. I *know* for example what Jesus would make of your own hysterical opposition to Obama helping to protect and heal the weakest in society. Not very kind is it?<br /><br />I might once have wanted you to nevertheless vote sensibly but as even that's gone, what's the point of pussyfooting around and pretending you're not a nutjob?<br /><br />Or does diddums Jack Bonkers need some Political Correctness enforced to protect him from other people laughing at him?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01952550278660027732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-78568627213700912742010-04-05T14:21:44.703+01:002010-04-05T14:21:44.703+01:00A Tory who does not support free association or pr...A Tory who does not support free association or private property rights. What a surprise. Not.Perry de Havillandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10758633865197253580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53416799521602881792010-04-05T13:25:56.340+01:002010-04-05T13:25:56.340+01:00It would be nice though to think I could choose a ...It would be nice though to think I could choose a Christian Guest House in the knowledge my young children wouldn't be subjected to morals we don't agree with!John McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04874064205411148519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-66521880216571581022010-04-05T13:16:41.452+01:002010-04-05T13:16:41.452+01:00Let Chris Grayling and the Christian couple turn t...Let Chris Grayling and the Christian couple turn the other cheek - what a refreshing spectacle that would make.Sean Blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11787118869524521962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-88015691790704386702010-04-05T12:51:54.160+01:002010-04-05T12:51:54.160+01:00"Stephen said...
So the nutjob fringe"
..."Stephen said...<br />So the nutjob fringe"<br /><br />My my. Well, you are the expert on nutjob fringes!<br /><br />Let me attempt to explain somethings to you Stephen. <br /><br />Though I do realize your mind is so closed that you think people who disagree with you are "nutjobs." That doesn't sound very Christian or forgiving of you by the way; but I shall attempt the onerous task.<br /><br />1. You need to do a minimum research into legal "contracts" before you pontificate from a position of total ignorance.<br /><br />2. All of us are imperfect. Is this not one of the fundemental beliefs of Christianity? You clearly get the imperfect part, which probably explains your judgmental and, let's face it, rather hysterical, hyped up denunciation of the behaviour of others whom you judge to be below you in Christianity.<br /><br />3. It is rather amusing to read a person complaining that "nutjobs" need to "understand" the Christian faith. That is so compassionatley put. Calling someone a "nutjob" or "Mr John Horseshit Talk" is clearly the Christian way of gaining sympathy from people with whom you disagree. Well done.<br /><br />4. You selectively cite the Bible (I assume you refer to the Pharisees in the New Testament) but you ignore many other parts of the Bible, including the Old Testament. Do you really want a biblical discussion on homosexuality, all that rendering unto Ceasar, et al?<br /><br />5. Dude... how about removing the BEAM from your eye first, and leave the pontificating to someone more qualified. Like the Pope.Jack Bauerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17968242073661139999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-44347035520460812262010-04-05T12:46:40.049+01:002010-04-05T12:46:40.049+01:00To be honest, this is a storm in a tea-cup. A tea-...To be honest, this is a storm in a tea-cup. A tea-cup on a tray with a little kettle, shortbread biscuits and a selection of fruit teas...<br /><br />Grayling was wrong, but I think he was coming from a different angle..attacking the increased regulation of small businesses, the marginalisation of the Church of England and the way that the 'Englishman's home is his castle' principle has been wholly undermined by this government.<br /><br />B&Bs are a peculiarly British tradition and provide the best opportunity for such a perfect 'teacup storm'. Of course owners should not be able to turn away people because they don't like 'their sort' or disapprove. But in reality there needs to be compromise. There are niche markets with Buddhist and vegan B&Bs, gay B&Bs (including Tantric sex and whipping) and so on...if someone wished to set up a Christian B&B with fairly-applied rules and conditions, then that should be permissible in law. I doubt the market would support very many though, and the effort would discourage the casual bigot. One could even envisage Islamic B&Bs with prayer room and Halal food, also gay-only B&Bs. All part of life's rich tapestry....but with most establishments welcoming to all...in line with the principles of a free market and majority demand.Jess The Doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01694805454982688213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-28546975370988372592010-04-05T11:50:55.106+01:002010-04-05T11:50:55.106+01:00It's such a pity that a so-called conservative...It's such a pity that a so-called conservative like Mr Dale doesn't grasp the great civilizing concepts of free speech and property rights. <br /> <br />It's all touchy feely garbage about "not offending" certain groups. <br /> <br />The fact is: a Bed & Breakfast in a person's actual home is DIFFERENT to a Hilton hotel. The addition fact that an outrageous "law" has been enacted by a corrupt statist big government is irrelevant.<br /> <br />Personally I would have no problem welcoming or serving a nicely behaved homosexual couple; the same as a nicely behaved hererosexual couple. <br /><br />But SO WHAT? That is not really the point. <br /> <br />As many have pointed out there are plenty of "gay" establishments which openly discriminate against heterosexuals by a number of methods: both overt and covert.<br /> <br />For starters they call themselves "GAY... insert word here." <br /> <br />That is clearly an OVERT method to stop heterosexuals entering the premises. No doubt about it.<br /> <br />Again, so WHAT. <br /> <br />Mr. Dale has nothing to say about that because he in intellectually incoherent; and he is more than happy to play the games of the ruling lumpen Marxetariat which riddles the establishment like a cancer.<br /><br />This is way beyond what we used to laughingly call "politically correct." <br /><br />It is the true totalitarian thought control of the Marxist-Leninists which now controls the establishment.<br /><br />The fact that Mr Dale can be wheeled out to give an ill-thought out doffing of his cap to the new masters, is what is truly sad.<br /><br />The idea that this will HARM conservatives amongst most normal people who don't live and work in the BBC institutionally leftist bubble, is laughable.<br /><br />But that's not the point. The point is to supposedly FORCE David Cameron to "sack" Grayling this week.<br /><br />This will prove to be about Cameron's speherical fortitude. How about it Dave?Jack Bauerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17968242073661139999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-39080928475628823062010-04-05T11:21:25.311+01:002010-04-05T11:21:25.311+01:00So the nutjob fringe here think that you're &q...So the nutjob fringe here think that you're "PC addled" if you think breach of contract and dumping your customers in the street at night in a strange place is a problem. <br /><br />These hoteliers weren't Christian by deed. What attempt did they make to help the people or find an alternative? No genuine Christian behaves like that. They were Pharisees. All judgement and no compassion. Big difference, taught to us by the Lord Himself actually. <br /><br />If only some of the nutjobs here simply understood the Christian faith.<br /><br />And Iain must be beside himself with concern that it's his comments that have deflected Mr John Horseshit Talk into changing his vote away from the Conservatives.....<br /><br />...Posssibly the most childish attempt at emotional blackmail on the internet this weekend?<br /><br />Fortunately in the Conservative party the decent people have always outnumbered the mad and the bigoted and we will continue to do so particularly as new homes are avaialable in the fringe parties.<br /><br />Grayling is no homophobe by the way, I think he just made a slip which if it wasn't for the tape no-one would ever have known.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01952550278660027732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-5712958657994168162010-04-05T11:17:46.103+01:002010-04-05T11:17:46.103+01:00Why all the fuss?
If a homosexual couple want t...Why all the fuss? <br /><br />If a homosexual couple want to run a B&B exclusively for homosexuals why not?<br /><br />If a heterosexual couple want to run a B&B for hetrosexuals why not?Sungei Patanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17059092510150451922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-39221790938532767362010-04-05T10:30:29.814+01:002010-04-05T10:30:29.814+01:00"Treacle... 5% of the electorate are gay - th...<i>"Treacle... 5% of the electorate are gay - that's total baloney.</i><br /><br />Bogus figure based on crap from a fifty year old "study" by a child-rapist enabler.<br /><br />It's 1% at a stretch. If you'll pardon the double-entendre.<br /><br />But no matter. You are so PC addled and close-minded that there is no point is trying to talk reason with your ilk.<br /><br />Of course, what SHOULD happen, is a B&B owner should welcome homosexuals with, well not open arms of course, but equanimity. Then they can prosletyze non-stop to their homosexual paying guests. <br /><br />Point out the error of their ways. Maybe convert them to a religion that will help them. Stuff like that.<br /><br />Maybe that's better for all concerned. Free speech wins out.Jack Bauerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17968242073661139999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-90334940999813901082010-04-05T10:15:13.260+01:002010-04-05T10:15:13.260+01:00Old Holborn, you are such light relief in this sto...Old Holborn, you are such light relief in this storm - and quite correct, of course.<br /><br />Some 20 years ago, my other half and I were refused B&B because there is a slight age difference between us (25 years) and he believed that it was a case of the boss banging his secretary. We still laugh about that today, yet why can't gays laugh and move on? They never do, of course and seem almost bound to shriek from the rooftops as soon as they are offended.Vienna Woodshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03957194230173008975noreply@blogger.com