tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post4817332000058980706..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: How Do You Define 'Wealth Creating'?Iain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-55223500215402688122009-01-15T16:02:00.000+00:002009-01-15T16:02:00.000+00:00"Most of us lawyers make a lot more money and crea..."Most of us lawyers make a lot more money and create a lot more welath for ourselves and our clients, than any other business."<BR/><BR/>It's a shame you can't spell. Nevermind, I don't suppose your clients can read.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00448711775318691029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-32878632359255842562009-01-15T01:27:00.000+00:002009-01-15T01:27:00.000+00:00God, there are some really thick lefties here!!!A ...God, there are some really thick lefties here!!!<BR/><BR/>A lawyer is a business man, you tosssers. I am apartner in a law firm, which means that I am an owner. The firm is a business just like any other effing businees. It is a welath creation business in that the firm uses its owners' and employees' skills to make money by providing services.<BR/><BR/>Most of us lawyers make a lot more money and create a lot more welath for ourselves and our clients, than any other business.Peter the Lawyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12033789416504963494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-21702925739564351202009-01-14T17:37:00.000+00:002009-01-14T17:37:00.000+00:00@Chris Paul said... This crossed with David's l...@Chris Paul said...<BR/><BR/> This crossed with David's latest. Let's not forget that there are many people who are extremely entrepreneurial who choose public service despite being perfectly suited for money grubbing ... because of values and ambitions measured other than in pounds, shillings and pence<BR/>//////////////////////////////////<BR/><BR/>Care to back that up? You say that, but I would be interested to know how many of the, say top 10% paid public servants, are there for reasons of public service.<BR/><BR/>Statements like that need some sources and references, you know. Else it is just an opinion.Elby the Beserkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15060519682739666145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-66141111607926906262009-01-14T17:35:00.000+00:002009-01-14T17:35:00.000+00:00Blogger David Boothroyd said... Just to confir...Blogger David Boothroyd said...<BR/><BR/> Just to confirm that the claim that Jacqui Smith taught "home economics" rather than economics is definitely untrue.<BR/>//<BR/><BR/>So what? She is terminally useless and clearly not up to the job. So your point is?Elby the Beserkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15060519682739666145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-40766292316353634012009-01-14T17:32:00.000+00:002009-01-14T17:32:00.000+00:00Splendid timing, given the following on Dilly Doll...Splendid timing, given the following on Dilly Dolly Draper's New Labour shagfest<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.labourlist.org/its_becoming_more_difficult_to_see_how_cameron_and_his_team_coul" REL="nofollow">http://www.labourlist.org/its_becoming_more_difficult_to_see_how_cameron_and_his_team_coul</A><BR/><BR/>Very funny.Elby the Beserkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15060519682739666145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-73417670744138168352009-01-14T15:13:00.000+00:002009-01-14T15:13:00.000+00:00At one time government owned much of industry &...At one time government owned much of industry & that bit was then productive though often not sufficiently so. Excepting the Post Office, these days are gone - government employees are almost all bureaucrats &/or regulators. Indeed an awful lot of government is negatively productive - without most of our planning regulators we would have more & far cheaper houses, without thousands of bureuacrats, lawyers & quangoists exercising vetos we would have more & far cheaper nuclear electricity & not be facing blackouts. Economist's rule is that every £1 spent on enforcing government regulations costs the regulated £20 which means the 200,000 H&S regulators cost the country the work done by 4 million of our productive workers.<BR/><BR/>As regards the fitness of ex-public employees - the fact is that they do not get sacked for failure. Jaqui Smith may or may have been a competent teacher but the fact that she wasn't fired is no indication. That John Redwood, or Chris Huhne, made considerable amounts of money before their political careers shows substantial competence.neil craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09157898238945726349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-56358260084599612672009-01-14T14:52:00.000+00:002009-01-14T14:52:00.000+00:00It's not just politicians that have little experie...It's not just politicians that have little experience in this area it is commentators as well in the media (not you Iain I know).David Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00834791637346781811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31496564043310402992009-01-14T13:58:00.000+00:002009-01-14T13:58:00.000+00:00How many wealth-inheritors are in the shadow cabin...How many wealth-inheritors are in the shadow cabinet?Theo Blackwell's bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04704280147051529551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-88651811543697870302009-01-14T13:04:00.000+00:002009-01-14T13:04:00.000+00:00"The society which scorns excellence in Plumbing a..."The society which scorns excellence in Plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an<BR/>exalted activity will have neither good Plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water."<BR/>John William GardnerJimmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01542633492362670045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12115772027078373362009-01-14T12:47:00.000+00:002009-01-14T12:47:00.000+00:00The idea that wealth is created by risk looks weak...The idea that wealth is created by risk looks weak compared to the notion that wealth is created by work.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07801341846218646357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-83481807909874095462009-01-14T11:20:00.000+00:002009-01-14T11:20:00.000+00:00Lola 9.36 "Geoffrey Robinson potted bio" add to th...Lola 9.36 "Geoffrey Robinson potted bio" add to that Robert Maxwell gofor and porfessional sleaze bagyarnesfromhorshamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18112140071835310267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-9232404964757635002009-01-14T11:03:00.000+00:002009-01-14T11:03:00.000+00:00'Jacqui Smith was a teacher and economics lecturer...'Jacqui Smith was a teacher and economics lecturer, which gave other people skills to create wealth'<BR/><BR/>Yes anyone who had actually had a job would know what a fatuous remark that is. I think a good way of looking at it is to imagine a less complex society where the distinction is clearer. Lets say you have a tribal group living in case and feasting on woolly mammoth .<BR/><BR/>Some of them will be charged with defending the tribe from the predations of other tribes and that obviously has a value . , not only that but its especially dangerous so they would be held in high esteem .( The Forces ) . Some would be engaged in the difficult an task of hunting mammoths daily risking life and limb in an arena when the slightest slip can be fatal .( Wealth Creators )<BR/><BR/>Mean while back at the caves , women , usually , will have other tasks ., like teaching the young cooking cleaning up the cave painting pictures of woolly mammoths , dancing about and writing songs of praise for the hunters .<BR/><BR/>This ancillary third group are useful, enough but not of course as vital as the actual providers without whom everyone starves . <BR/><BR/><B>WE seem to have a society where the people who draw pictures of Mammoths get all the tasty cuts while the people who kill them get left with a thin broth of mammoth toenail clipping and sabre tooth foreskin.Whats more the fire is not well tended and the lazy fat home bods have convinced themselves that mammoth comes out of thin air and appears on their plates by magic Grrr</B>Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-69934701865558538202009-01-14T10:22:00.000+00:002009-01-14T10:22:00.000+00:00Lola for Prime Minister!Lola for Prime Minister!Anonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09879082119419129318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-92020049989153534882009-01-14T10:11:00.000+00:002009-01-14T10:11:00.000+00:00Oh dear, this is a favourite Bankment hooby-horse....Oh dear, this is a favourite Bankment hooby-horse. The majority of current politicians are career wonks who have never aspired to do anything other than get their hands on the levers and start telling the rest of us how to run our lives.<BR/><BR/>Blair - never really cut it as a barrister. <BR/>Cameron - a non-job in PR for TV; how vapid is that. <BR/>Osborne - nothing. <BR/>Hague - school, university, managment consultancy without having experinced management itself. <BR/>Brown - nothing.<BR/><BR/>The list is almost endless. Ghastly as Prescott was, for example, at least he had experience of the real world. You really can't imagine either Cameron or Brown queuing for a bus or worrying about the next gas or council tax bill. They have always led gilded, feather-bedded lives, being burnished for government and being told throughout how ever-so jolly wondeful they are and how the people hardly deserve anyone of their brilliance to tell them how to run their lives. <BR/><BR/>And now we have the next generation of Benns appearing over the horizon to assume their birthright. There was a feature over the weekend about some 19yo Benn girlie who's been selected for a seat next time round. How very dare she push herself forward as knowing any damned thing about any damned thing!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-81969061676173461992009-01-14T10:05:00.000+00:002009-01-14T10:05:00.000+00:00I think working in the frontline of public service...I think working in the frontline of public services (e.g. teacher, doctor, nurse) gives you a useful perspective on things, but wealth-creation is very different from that.<BR/><BR/>It's a shame that so few politicians understand the realities of either working in a hospital or school, or running a business and managing other people.Letters From A Toryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14612766550608940053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-89847523793825575552009-01-14T09:47:00.000+00:002009-01-14T09:47:00.000+00:00GM - I agree MP don't necessarily make good busine...GM - I agree MP don't necessarily make good businessmen and vise versa.<BR/><BR/>The point is not can they do it, but do they understand it? Wealth creation that is.<BR/><BR/>Clearly New Labour only understand it to a degree and see it purely as a means of taking more of this wealth away as tax. The assumption being that they, New Labour, are better at allocating this capital or spending it, better than the people they tax.<BR/><BR/>They do not make the connection between taking this wealth away and the reduction in the wealth of the UK as this capital is destroyed by spending it.<BR/><BR/>Look, the current financial crisis is caused by excess debt. This excess debt both private and government has been used to sustain income levels as capital has been destroyed by lefty policies. Essentially we are unwinding excess money and reducing our income to a level sustainable by the actual value of the capital we employ. This is lower than the last 11 years as New Labour's tax and spend policies have destoyed so much of the capital, wealth, that we have created.<BR/><BR/>Wealth creation and the preservation of that wealth is a public good, even or especially if it stays within the hands of the creators as they will husband it. Governemnts will just destroy it. They have no incentive at all to maintain it.<BR/><BR/>Wealth creation and preservation go hand in hand.Lolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04586735342675041312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-24805422521595141712009-01-14T09:36:00.000+00:002009-01-14T09:36:00.000+00:00Geoffrey Robinson potted biography - "Labour Party...Geoffrey Robinson potted biography - "Labour Party Research Assistant1965-68; Senior Executive, Industrial Reorganisation Corporation 1968-70; Financial Controller, British Leyland 1971-72; Managing Director, Leyland Innocenti (Milan) 1972-73; Chief Executive, Jaguar Cars 1973-75; Chief Executive (unpaid), Meriden Motor Cycle Workers' Co-op 1978-80 (Director 1980-82); Director West Midlands Enterprise Board 1980-85."Lolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04586735342675041312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-20969947800390589932009-01-14T09:35:00.000+00:002009-01-14T09:35:00.000+00:00Robert Heinlein, author of "Stranger in a strange ...Robert Heinlein, author of "Stranger in a strange land" wrote more than fifty years ago that there are three types of people- makers, takers and fakers.<BR/><BR/>He was right. Politics is packed full of takers and fakers with not a maker in sightDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00448711775318691029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-5904814643694519092009-01-14T09:29:00.000+00:002009-01-14T09:29:00.000+00:00This issue really touches a raw nerve! I quite li...This issue really touches a raw nerve! I quite liked Simon Heffer's definition of some public sector jobs as "socially productive". The fact is, both public and private sector in the modern liberal state thrive off each other, and it is something of a misnomer to suggest that one group over another might be better at being in government. Rupert Murdoch and Richard Branson are outstanding wealth creators, but they would be appalling men of government. The businessmen brought in to government by Gordon Brown have not been notably successful.<BR/><BR/>Possibly the only good rule for determining who should govern is that those who really want it are those who are likely to be worst at it.Giles Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09257512119593812010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53533689403681583522009-01-14T09:27:00.000+00:002009-01-14T09:27:00.000+00:00@ LolaWell said. And what about all those parasit...@ Lola<BR/><BR/>Well said. And what about all those parasitical 'consultants' too?Unsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307116169498533047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-17018307587921006012009-01-14T09:24:00.000+00:002009-01-14T09:24:00.000+00:00@ ChrlesOJYou should take Derek Wyatt's claims wit...@ ChrlesOJ<BR/><BR/>You should take Derek Wyatt's claims with a large pinch of salt. Director? What does that mean, actually? What does it entail?<BR/><BR/>Maybe that's one less, then.Unsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307116169498533047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-48637680835351002412009-01-14T09:21:00.000+00:002009-01-14T09:21:00.000+00:00@ Helen".....And you certainly are unlikely to und...@ Helen<BR/><BR/><I>".....And you certainly are unlikely to understand anything about defence in general."</I><BR/><BR/>Any evidence for this quite stunning assessment? Any research to back this up?Unsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307116169498533047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-7263014055837504862009-01-14T09:07:00.000+00:002009-01-14T09:07:00.000+00:00Labour mps who founded firms:Mohammed Sarwar - Uni...Labour mps who founded firms:<BR/><BR/>Mohammed Sarwar - United Wholesale Grocers<BR/>Michael Wills - Juniper TV<BR/>Geoffrey Robinson - TransTec<BR/>Liam Byrne - eGovernment Solutions<BR/>Gordon Banks - Building supply company<BR/>Lindsay Hoyle - Screen Arts, a printing firm<BR/>John Mann - Abraxos, conference organiser<BR/><BR/>Labour mps with serious business careers:<BR/><BR/>Derek Wyatt - Director, Computer Channel, BSkyB<BR/>Don Touhig - General manager of Free Press Group<BR/>Paul Farrelly - Manager at Barclays DZW<BR/>Barry Gardiner - Partner at Mediterranean Average Adjusting<BR/>Jim Knight - Managed a small publishing firm for ten years<BR/>Stephen Timms - Telecoms analyst, Logica and Ovum<BR/>James Plaskitt - Director of Oxford Analytica, global risk consultancy<BR/>Dr Stephen Ladyman - IT technician, Pfizer<BR/>Ian Cawsay - Computer programmer, Seven Seas vitamins<BR/><BR/>And, er, that's it....CharlesOJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15418087518431181567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-58772755662751055902009-01-14T09:06:00.000+00:002009-01-14T09:06:00.000+00:00May I just add one more thing? I run a small busi...May I just add one more thing? I run a small business. I do not want more bank debt. I do not need it. But my bank needs to reduce my overdraft, because its own balance sheet is screwed, not mine. So it has asked me to reduce our borrowings. Well, demanded actually. Now I can do this from free personal wealth I have created and saved over the years. But I want to rebuild this wealth. The biggest drag on that is excessive, penalty taxation on my earnings and capital. Without that I can re-invest and create another job or three. I have a openings now, but I cannot afford to fill them as I have to pay too much tax.<BR/><BR/>By extension then there are jobs in the public sector paid for by my taxes that are preventing me recruiting for my wealth creating business. Those public sector jobs are bought at the expense of the jobs in my business and hence less wealth is created.<BR/><BR/>Sooner or later someone in this useless government and the vague and muddled opposition will realise that cutting income, business and capital taxes is the only way out of this recession. In line with this government spending will have to be slashed and those workers will be released to pursue more productive wealth creating jobs in private business. The TPA has indentified at least £100Bn of wasted spending, so there is plenty of scope to cut. And before any of you lefties start on the cutting 'teachers, police, doctors and nurses' etc that's nonsense. There are about 1.3 million in those frontline services leaving another 5.7m state 'workers' doing what exactly?<BR/><BR/>These actions lead to wealth creation, from which we, as a country, can enjoy more good stuff.Lolahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04586735342675041312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-82265610322024830352009-01-14T09:01:00.000+00:002009-01-14T09:01:00.000+00:00David Boothroyd said... Unfortunately the skills n...<I>David Boothroyd said... <BR/>Unfortunately the skills needed to succeed in business are quite different to those needed to succeed in politics...<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>And vice versa. Sadly, that doesn't stop politicians from buggering about with business and making a complete pig's ear of it.Windsor Tripehoundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16923036087016324862noreply@blogger.com