tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post4645880689254162192..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Cameron & Thinking the UnthinkableIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-30162960354812338442007-04-23T15:03:00.000+01:002007-04-23T15:03:00.000+01:00Prague Tory - Good point!More Vulgar - That's it i...Prague Tory - Good point!<BR/><BR/>More Vulgar - That's it in a nutshell. David Cameron - a pr man - cannot think of a way to draw people back to the Tory party that isn't a copy of what NuLabour did with such success back in the 90s. He hsn't got a clue about what to do except copy the enemy's dishonesty from a decade ago.<BR/><BR/>Incidentally, it has always chilled my blood how eagerly the Tories cooperated in their own trashing. Teresa May should have been sacked for donning the mantle of the enemy and dubbing the Tories "the nasty party", thus reinforcing Labour jibes. In fact, other than a couple of people who took small amounts of money in brown paper envelopes and a couple of people who had affairs, they were rather staidly middle class.<BR/><BR/>Yet people who called their own party "the nasty party" are unable to land any blows (for fear of being called names) on the morally bankrupt, vile Labour party that has brought Britain to its knees in almost every area.<BR/><BR/>As you say "social responsibility" (and "green") - how is that going to get the blood racing? We need David Davis talking stirring ideas to real middle class and working class people who have been robbed of their country, their incomes through communist-style taxation, and their pensions and their precious British freedom of speech.<BR/><BR/>Judith falls into the same trap of trying to sound modern and market-oriented. A political party is not a "brand", any more than a religion is a "brand". It is a belief system which people incorporate into their lives and live by. Please, let us not have this NuLab-speak of "branding" because it sounded "modern". Frankly, it sounds ridiculous and studentish and falls, yet again, into the trap of aping the enemy.<BR/><BR/>Little Black Sambo - Precisely.<BR/><BR/>Reggie Maudling's Ghost - The news was leaked by David Davis! Oh, goody! There's my morning frisson! Stirrings of dissatisfaction among the trooops at the job the leader is not doing with so much banging of drums and playing of trumpets.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-2118913029788460162007-04-23T13:56:00.000+01:002007-04-23T13:56:00.000+01:00I think this was a brilliant spin operation to win...I think this was a brilliant spin operation to win over yet more Lib Dems.<BR/><BR/>Sir Ming comes out of it looking like a prat, while Cameron looks open-minded and flexible.<BR/><BR/>Mission accomplished.EMLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11135610894123356215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-75258856492802090212007-04-23T13:14:00.000+01:002007-04-23T13:14:00.000+01:00david davis leaked the details, which says a lot a...david davis leaked the details, which says a lot about his view of Dave.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-86162790897953898552007-04-23T12:30:00.000+01:002007-04-23T12:30:00.000+01:00I think that a lot of the criticism of Cameron is ...I think that a lot of the criticism of Cameron is way too harsh; It is no good being a political Casandra - completely correct but never heeded. Yes, a political party has its principles and has to make the case for those principles, but it also has to negotiate with the wider electorate and try to come up with a compromise. It is this "contract" with the electorate that makes the UK system tick (or rather did, and still does when you compare it with where I live in Russia). For me, being willing to accept that a Greg Dyke that he could work with would be better than a Red Ken who is off in his own little world is a good sign that Cameron could be a seriously good PM.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-27589125729144439232007-04-23T12:13:00.000+01:002007-04-23T12:13:00.000+01:00"Principles which only apply to about a third of t..."Principles which only apply to about a third of the population will not bring about a change of government."<BR/>With the sort of turnouts we have seen, they might. Anyway, if they are the RIGHT principles, we should stick to them.Little Black Sambohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699227938165106710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-51815615912547549972007-04-23T12:02:00.000+01:002007-04-23T12:02:00.000+01:00I'd have thought certain Lib Dems would have more ...I'd have thought certain Lib Dems would have more to benefit from this becoming public than any Tory? Probably yet another nail in Ming's coffin...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-68356854027451941412007-04-23T11:55:00.000+01:002007-04-23T11:55:00.000+01:00javelin said...April 23, 2007 9:29 AM Dismissing ...javelin said...April 23, 2007 9:29 AM <BR/><BR/>Dismissing Dyke, as Ming's knee-jerk reaction did shows how out of tune the Lib-Dem leadership is from the "new politics". <BR/><BR/>The Lib-Dems still think they are sitting on the fence in a left-right-wing world. They still think sitting on a pivot makes them pivotal [well it hasn't and never will] and they feel very uncomfortable abandoning that position. <BR/><BR/>Sad to say I have to fully agree with this statement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53054637924586433852007-04-23T11:31:00.000+01:002007-04-23T11:31:00.000+01:00Good for Verity . If Cameron was really that Liber...Good for Verity . If Cameron was really that Liberal then I would leave and join UKIP .<BR/><BR/>There is not a new politcs of unprinciple and management not until they rip real choices from the cold dead hand of the British People.<BR/>Thanks god this shameful episode is at an end . People like the CHatterbox have no conception of what the point of poltics is . It is not a f----- game !<BR/><BR/>( What is the swearing rule at the moment ?)Newmaniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11922161971821380803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-71962482467008112092007-04-23T09:31:00.000+01:002007-04-23T09:31:00.000+01:00A party like the Conservatives can never put forwa...A party like the Conservatives can never put forward a policy the liberal left does not like,nor possibly a candidate.The likes of the BBC control the agenda in that they define what is the "centre ground"(Often to the left of the public)This is the reason it is all about delivery and presentation.Dyke would do wonderfully well,the BBC helping his cause.LMOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13741606550273857428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-60868596393755868012007-04-23T09:29:00.001+01:002007-04-23T09:29:00.001+01:00Dismissing Dyke, as Ming's knee-jerk reaction did ...Dismissing Dyke, as Ming's knee-jerk reaction did shows how out of tune the Lib-Dem leadership is from the "new politics". <BR/><BR/>The Lib-Dems still think they are sitting on the fence in a left-right-wing world. They still think sitting on a pivot makes them pivotal [well it hasn't and never will] and they feel very uncomfortable abandoning that position.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-61369974109212752502007-04-23T09:29:00.000+01:002007-04-23T09:29:00.000+01:00chatterbox is right, verity is wrong - if we had t...chatterbox is right, verity is wrong - if we had to rely on the votes of Party members, we'd be dead in the water.<BR/><BR/>Cameron is changing the brand, and like it or not, that is the job Cameron was elected to do. <BR/><BR/>People who loathe all politicians have said in my hearing 'Cameron speaks like a real human being not a Party machine'.<BR/><BR/>Would I like to turn the dial back to, say, 1986? Yes, with all my heart - but I can't, and Cameron gives us the best chance we have had since 97 to turn the tables on this vile Government.<BR/><BR/>What has Cameron achieved by the age of 40(?) - he has made the Conservative Party viable again, and whether I like or don't like aspects of his approach is really unimportant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-52333977312522959372007-04-23T09:24:00.000+01:002007-04-23T09:24:00.000+01:00Problem with Cameron is that he understands that t...Problem with Cameron is that he understands that the Conservative Party's problem is not its policies, but its image, priorities and rhetoric (whereas for New Labour it was almost entirely unpalatable policies) but he cannot avoid actually changing (or avoiding talking about entirely) the "policies". <BR/><BR/>In other words, he can see the difference in the problem, but can't address the problem "differently".<BR/><BR/>Why?<BR/><BR/>Because Camerons team cannot tear themselves away from rigidly following New Labours battleplan of the mid-90's because that's the only game plan they know which "worked" and it is consequently one which they are obsessed with.<BR/><BR/>They need to change their approach pretty fast because no-one will vote for vacuity and waffle again. <BR/><BR/>"Social responsibility" - how uninspiring is that?!<BR/><BR/>They want an attractive, sensible Conservative party, but one which offers a clear vision and is worth voting for.<BR/><BR/>Cameron needs to SORT IT OUT asap.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-18687349471810474952007-04-23T05:01:00.000+01:002007-04-23T05:01:00.000+01:00The piece is interesting because it confirms the v...The piece is interesting because it confirms the version of the story that you broke and makes it clearer (as it was already crystal to those who follow these things) where Ming's loyalties. Vote yellow, get brown.Praguetoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16520923731691837948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-87094395705267042912007-04-23T03:55:00.000+01:002007-04-23T03:55:00.000+01:00Gary Powell, fair questions all, although your ext...Gary Powell, fair questions all, although your extrapolations are condescending. I could as easily opine that you rather fancy David Cameron and all those naughty public schoolboys who have more cash and charm than you do. That would explain you swooning over David Cameron and wanting to "give him a chance". Hmmmmm..... A chance at what, may we ask? Does your bottom wriggle when you think of David Cameron?<BR/><BR/>Insulting, isn't it? <BR/><BR/>Don't dish out what you can't take more of. And never get into a fight about sexual innuendos with a woman because we will always win. <BR/><BR/>I have been forgiving in this post.<BR/><BR/>Next time, not. Try to keep it on a level discussion between adults who do not know one another and, in my case, would avoid acquaintanceship at all costs.<BR/><BR/>I don't like David Cameron on his record, which is one of cheap, public relations opportunism. He was a PR man before and frankly, for a PR man, he's pretty crap. He doesn't seem to have had any triumphs, ever, in his dimly-lit career.<BR/><BR/>Can any point to any clever public relations triumph that David Cameron ever had in his 40 years? He's in middle age. He should have had some coups by now. He seems to have slipped under the water for most of his professional life.<BR/><BR/>He's not "middle class", by the way, despite us all being middle class, all being American, all being Hezbollah, now. There are still aristocratic people standing around. Not that I mind them. In fact, I think Prince Charles, with his long experience of his Prince's Trust, and his record of having spent long, ardous hours, year after year after year helping hundreds of young people to become entrepreneurs, is a perfect example.<BR/><BR/>Dave has accomplished nothing. Dave has no record. No background of achievement. Dave's a zero and continues, to my satisfaction, to prove this on a daily basis.<BR/><BR/>Cometh the hour, sinketh the man. Although as he has always swum beneath the surface, for his whole career, who would notice?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-48633784463959351182007-04-23T01:55:00.000+01:002007-04-23T01:55:00.000+01:00Verity is turning into the lady that protests to m...Verity is turning into the lady that protests to much about someone who has never been in power yet. <BR/><BR/>Whats wrong with giving the middle class prat at least a year in office before trying to roast his testicals on the end of her triad?<BR/><BR/>In think shes secretly got a crush on public school boys with more cash and charm then herself. Only dont tell her because she will get really really pissed again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-22060142988771353932007-04-23T01:45:00.000+01:002007-04-23T01:45:00.000+01:00PaulI cant tell you anything usefull Ken Livingsto...Paul<BR/>I cant tell you anything usefull Ken Livingstone has done.<BR/><BR/>But I can tell you that half of Londons roads have become bus lanes. The buses are predictably still empty half the day. If the trains get any shorter at weekends they will become non exsistant. The Police service have become invisable except to car tax dodgers. Traffic wardens are more numerous then parking spaces. It now costs me £8 per day to sit in a traffic jam all day when it used to cost nothing at all.<BR/><BR/>I could go on and on. <BR/><BR/>What makes it all more then sad is that Ken is costing me and my family approximatly 500 taxed pounds every year and rising fast in extra council tax. <BR/><BR/>OH I did forget to mention the really 'usefull' trip to Cuba, I helped pay Ken to go on. I also forgot Ken assisting in the olypic movement bankcrupting my great great grand children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-73369569850930748922007-04-23T01:37:00.000+01:002007-04-23T01:37:00.000+01:00Just to re-inforce the point I was making ... Chat...Just to re-inforce the point I was making ... Chatterbox writes: "Cameron has to appeal to wider audience."<BR/><BR/>Incorrect. His "wider audience" has always been here, but the Tories threw it away as not being trendy enough; not being NuBlairy enough. Hiw "wider audience" is the huge body of the Conservative party. If he deserts them in search of a "wider audience" the Conservatives will win another defeat.<BR/><BR/>Dave is toxic. He is precisely the wrong individual.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-60204746639746354972007-04-23T00:47:00.000+01:002007-04-23T00:47:00.000+01:00Iain,If i'm honest, I personally think Ming displa...Iain,<BR/><BR/>If i'm honest, I personally think Ming displayed exactly the kind of knee-jerk reaction to Dyke's proposals which he so often criticises the government for having.<BR/><BR/>In reality, events would suggest that Ming fears what any sign of co-operation with Cameron would mean for his party. Namely, the authentication of Cameron's claims to be a "liberal conservative".<BR/><BR/>Ming, like vast swathes of the Labour Party, is desperately hoping Cameron is a closet right-winger just saying anything to get into government. <BR/><BR/>The truth is probably somewhat different, and even i recognise that.<BR/><BR/>Ming should look on this as an oppurtunity to work with Cameron to actually put some key Lib Dem proposals into practice. The liberalism i know and believe in is much closer to Cameron than to Brown, which is why working with the former.<BR/><BR/>The question is, does Ming actually stand for it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-66194107867241267162007-04-23T00:38:00.000+01:002007-04-23T00:38:00.000+01:00"He has to appeal to the heart of the Conservative..."He has to appeal to the heart of the Conservative voters who have been devoid of representation for 10 years. Conservatism isn't a new "brand". We've been here for a hundred years. We didn't leave you. You left us. We want our party back."<BR/>Verity, he has to appear to a lot more voters than just conservatives to win an election!!!<BR/>And while we have been "picking" nice safe "right wing" leaders who blow all the right whistles Blair and Brown have been destroying our once proud voting system, pensions, savings etc etc....<BR/>Principles which only apply to about a third of the population will not bring about a change of government and a return to those principles in British life!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-69063466357588757982007-04-23T00:12:00.000+01:002007-04-23T00:12:00.000+01:00Handy said:Peter Mandelson: played by Steve Hilton...Handy said:<BR/><BR/>Peter Mandelson: played by Steve Hilton<BR/><BR/><BR/>Now that is spot on. Well said, Handy<BR/><BR/>Auntie Flo'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-16790184170128971162007-04-22T23:55:00.000+01:002007-04-22T23:55:00.000+01:00Dave's dancing on a prosthetic leg. I think it's ...Dave's dancing on a prosthetic leg. I think it's his right leg. It's not real.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-281672593447626752007-04-22T23:44:00.000+01:002007-04-22T23:44:00.000+01:00Peter Mc, are you on something?Peter Mc, are you on something?Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-14948020925024461022007-04-22T23:42:00.000+01:002007-04-22T23:42:00.000+01:00You (rightly) have a go at the Darlington LD group...You (rightly) have a go at the Darlington LD group leader for signing a BNP candidate's nomination papers. Then you have a pop at Ming for not supporting a Conservative proposed candidate for the London mayoralty. <BR/><BR/>Your logic circuits seem to do better on London fug than North Sea air.Peter Mchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03850862887931603954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19800751871559978142007-04-22T23:35:00.000+01:002007-04-22T23:35:00.000+01:00Handy - The Fourth Way! V good!David Cameron is t...Handy - The Fourth Way! V good!<BR/><BR/>David Cameron is the Heather Mills of the British Parliament. New misunderstandings with the media. New explanations. New show stopping attention-grabbers. <BR/><BR/>An exciting new appearance on TV, dancing with a fake ethos! To media music! He can do the mambo to the left with a fake leg! He can do a backflip in beliefs with a fake leg! Do you love him, or what? Call in and vote Dave!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-15330178031882439042007-04-22T23:24:00.000+01:002007-04-22T23:24:00.000+01:00Er, in what way? I was against the Dyke idea then ...Er, in what way? I was against the Dyke idea then and I am now - as I said in the post. Read the piece again and your brain might switch into gear and understand the point I am making.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.com