tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post439204515559087788..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Helicopters: The True StoryIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-7546583067435497292009-07-19T21:59:54.696+01:002009-07-19T21:59:54.696+01:00I also think that you're missing the major poi...I also think that you're missing the major point here Iain<br /><br />Helicopters are generally used in supply, transport type operations, and the lack of pilots is symptomatic of recruitment across the services. It has to be said, however, that Recessions are generally good for increasing the number of service personnel<br /><br />To be successful the ground where helicopters are to operate needs to be secure, otherwise you may compromise missions and leave yourself open to ambush<br /><br />Simply adding more helicopters to the mix won't make everything OK, because it does not answer the shortage of boots on the ground<br /><br />Imagine the furore that would happen in our newspapers if a Chinook was shot down with a full compliment of squaddies on board taking part in an operation.<br /><br />Chinooks are slow and noisy, or at least the ones that fly over me are, so it might not be that hard for a Taliban with ground to air capability to "take one out"<br /><br />Men take a little longer to be recruited and trained if they are not to become fodderStronghold Barricadesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-12455939256380672212009-07-19T17:10:45.381+01:002009-07-19T17:10:45.381+01:00Thank you Iain I have him Tivo and and just haven&...Thank you Iain I have him Tivo and and just haven't had time to clip him and post him. <br />Do you believe on reflection that it is a credible ratio? It strikes me that's a lot of troops tied up in maintenance and a lot of helicopters not being shared around very fairly amongst the allies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-25297460630097178062009-07-19T00:56:19.150+01:002009-07-19T00:56:19.150+01:00It was a figure quoted by Andrew Neil in THIS WEEK...It was a figure quoted by Andrew Neil in THIS WEEK.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-14647266762123956572009-07-19T00:46:02.105+01:002009-07-19T00:46:02.105+01:00You are clearly a successfull blogger and comments...You are clearly a successfull blogger and comments must be an administrative nightmare, but you made a claim that the Americans have a ratio of 33 troops per helicopter and we know that they have 28,000 troops in theater which equates to 848 helicopters in theater which I doubt very much.<br /><br />The problem is that I really want to believe in the conservatives, believe me, but that sort of garbage spin just makes it all look like more of the same, just a different brand name.<br />You obviously sing to the choir, but it isn't the choir you need to convince to win power because they will vote for you anyway.<br /><br />What are your sources for claiming a ratio of 33 troops per helicopter. If you are correct and the Americans actually have 848 helicopters in theater then the British dont need to send anymore as that is more than enough for the combined total of 36,000 troops giving a ration of 44 troops per helicopter (American and UK forces combined).<br /><br />I know its a small point but it is that type of crappy spin that puts a lot of people off politics!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-34653788745206727232009-07-18T17:28:39.554+01:002009-07-18T17:28:39.554+01:00• [Jul 08]: Mr. John Maples (Stratford-on-Avon) (C...• [Jul 08]: Mr. John Maples (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): ' . . I WONDER whether she could remind the House of precisely what our military objective in Afghanistan is.'<br /><br />The seven soldiers killed in Afghanistan, whose names the right hon. and learned Lady gave us at the start of Prime Minister's Question Time, bring to exactly 170 the tragic total of those killed in Afghanistan since 2006. Many people in my constituency are starting to doubt the wisdom of this war and I wonder whether she could remind the House of precisely what our military objective in Afghanistan is.<br /><br />Ms Harman: The hon. Gentleman makes a very important point. We do not want anyone to be in any doubt about the importance of this mission in Afghanistan. It is important to ensure that in the mountainous regions surrounding Afghanistan and Pakistan, we do not have a crucible for the development of terrorism, which threatens people not only in those countries but in the wider region and, indeed, the whole world.<br /><br />This mission is also important for the education of people in Afghanistan. There are now 6 million children in school in that country, compared with only 1 million in early 2001. Our troops have paved the way, working with other international forces, to make that possible. They are paving the way for economic development and a more secure democracy as well as security in the region and the world. We want to make it clear to our soldiers, their families and the people of this country that we have no doubt about the importance of the mission in Afghanistan.<br /><br />From Theyworkforyou.comrob's unclehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03001074396029714388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-40434418359519672332009-07-18T15:39:08.225+01:002009-07-18T15:39:08.225+01:00I know what it was originally, back in 2001, but i...<i>I know what it was originally, back in 2001, but it seems to have changed beyond all recognition. Are we now sure we are there for the right reasons? I have yet to hear a government minister articulate the mission properly over the last couple of weeks.</i><br /><br />The original mission and strategic mission hasn't changed but the problem is that the UK Government is a follower not a leader and both the mission and the strategy are driven by the US.<br /><br />Afghanistan is a gateway to get access to the massive oil and gas reserves north of Afghanistan in the eastern Caspian Sea Basin. <br /><br />It also completes the encirclement of Iran, Iraq on the west and Afghanistan on the east, which also has massive oil and gas reserves and is not a US client state.<br /><br />If the US can crush the Taliban in Afghanistan they can run pipelines across Afghanistan and Pakistan to the Indian Ocean and if they can effect, "Regime Change", in Iran then Iran is the best and most direct route for pipelines to get to the Indian Ocean.<br /><br />They are already <a href="http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9640" rel="nofollow">proposing a pipeline</a> across Afghanistan to bring gas to India and the Canadians are upset because it will run right through their sector and defending it will be their responsibility.<br /><br />The British Army is fighting and dying for US oil and gas companies and to help the US in its aim to secure energy and profit for the US.DougtheDughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02952281599715356995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-46712990443793436962009-07-18T15:19:04.728+01:002009-07-18T15:19:04.728+01:00Supposedly the mission is about fighting the terro...Supposedly the mission is about fighting the terrorists in their own backyard thereby limiting their ability to attach the UK high streets. Thats fine as far as it goes but why have we allowed over 5000 muslims to enter the country since 2003/07 supposedly to achieve additional qualifications at SPOOF colleges.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-49485029913615802812009-07-18T13:43:09.463+01:002009-07-18T13:43:09.463+01:00Just a quickie.
Lots of these aircraft were bough...Just a quickie.<br /><br />Lots of these aircraft were bought under Tory rule, including the 1996 purchase that are not yet in use.<br /><br />Your correspondent gives no indication of the capabilities of each aircraft type.<br /><br />It's just a stream of numbers and jargon. <br /><br />And it is also not clear what the upper class twits and upper class twit generals have been putting in for and deciding over the past 15 years of procurement and practical deployments.<br /><br />And finally, the MoD figures already seem to have a third taken off them, so is your friend double top slicing the fleet?<br /><br />Biggest issue though is those eight chuffing big Chinook helicopters bought by Tories in 1996 and apparently not deployable.Chris Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15679067503215414300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-48795777728347391352009-07-18T13:30:15.029+01:002009-07-18T13:30:15.029+01:00I started campaigning against the mission on 11/09...I started campaigning against the mission on 11/09/01 but it is bloody obvious what that mission was and essentially remains.<br /><br />- Destroy Taleban - who are Caliphate world domination mullahs, all round bastards, and fascists. <br /><br />- Destroy major Al Queda terror training capability and terror productivity - including in UK and against our interest - which said Taleban enable.<br /><br />- Prevent Taleban going nuclear.<br /><br />- Destroy Bin Laden and the like.<br /><br />And as corollaries:<br /><br />- Protect oil supplies. <br /><br />- Maintain highly strategic buffer state.<br /><br />- Win hearts and minds, promote democracy and build international market for McDonalds, banking and diverse goods and services.<br /><br />aka Secondary Imperialism<br /><br />This is a mixture of protecting World Capital and British establishment and protecting our broad population from current terror threat and future far worse terror threat if nothing is done.<br /><br />Surely Tories would or should argue that proetcting world capital and british establishment is in direct interest of white van family and pauper alike as they benefit from "trickle down".<br /><br />I have always favoured a "policing" approach to criminality and Al Queda are criminals.Chris Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15679067503215414300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-68742494244893067852009-07-18T11:23:57.665+01:002009-07-18T11:23:57.665+01:00Please do not overlook the fact that the Merlin ha...Please do not overlook the fact that the Merlin has a major problem.<br />The Italian made gearbox has a weakness which means it can not handle the torque required to fly at its maximum speed.<br />This means that it can not operate as it is meant to however, I suppose a slow helicopter is better than no helicopter.Heads on polesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-14599617096393207842009-07-18T10:16:05.295+01:002009-07-18T10:16:05.295+01:00I would like to thank the person who provided this...I would like to thank the person who provided this information.<br /><br />We all know that Gordon Brown is a lying and vengeful bastard. The only way that we can ensure our forces get the equipment they need is for people to speak out and tell the truth.<br /><br />Gordon is scared of the public. If people at the sharp end continue to explain the reality, the public will hound Brown and force him to ignore his in-built hatred of the armed forces.<br /><br />Brown will fold in the end. We have to hope, in the mean time, that we can get as much kit to the front line as fast as possible.Trend Shedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04817609330878848716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1612281078234263262009-07-18T10:07:36.604+01:002009-07-18T10:07:36.604+01:00I have just read the blog from the retired RAF per...I have just read the blog from the retired RAF person with amazement. It is so detailed. <br /><br />I wonder if politicians have grasped how powerful blogging can be. For the first time ordinary people, sitting at home, can learn the facts and not be taken in by politicians being economical with the truth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-19442656853110672912009-07-18T09:27:56.369+01:002009-07-18T09:27:56.369+01:00I got a bit drunk last - certainly not news in its...I got a bit drunk last - certainly not news in itself however, in the taxi on the way home started chatting with the driver whose grand daughter got blown up a couple of months by an unmanned drone in north east Pakistan. I expressed my sorrow and remorse and started talking about Musharraf and Zardari but, bottom line - you gotta think it was a pointless death.Dick the Prickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02683095612320513712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-59760041331103477772009-07-18T09:09:08.959+01:002009-07-18T09:09:08.959+01:00Excellent post. There's another lengthy commen...Excellent post. There's another lengthy comment of equally impressive authority and detail on Douglas Carswell's blog. Well worth reading.eeyorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-75432752462238051712009-07-18T08:58:27.724+01:002009-07-18T08:58:27.724+01:00The question that should have been asked of Brown ...The question that should have been asked of Brown is "You have made it plain that several options were discussed. Was sending 2000 additional troops to Afghanistan one of them? Yes or No would suffice."Berty Brown-Stainesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-57965106369255621352009-07-18T08:07:07.268+01:002009-07-18T08:07:07.268+01:00Iain Dale said "our armed forces have one hel...Iain Dale said "our armed forces have one helicopter to 400 troops, while the Americans have one for every 33"?????<br /><br />Are you saying that America has 848 helicopters in Afghanistan. They have 28,000 troops so to achieve the ratio you suggest they would have too??? Sounds like spin to me. Where did you get the figure. Citation needed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-85277596363674514132009-07-18T07:40:47.070+01:002009-07-18T07:40:47.070+01:00The "mission in Afghanistan" back in 200...The "mission in Afghanistan" back in 2001 was so the West could "kick the cat" after being upset and angry about 9/11/<br /><br />The mission now is for Barry Bollocks Obama to strut his commander in chief credentials to show a Democratic President is just as good a kick-ass as a Republican one. <br /><br />It also has the merit of being able to claim it is clearing up the mess left by Bush (boo! hiss!) and should it fail, all the blame will accrue to the Bushlings who lfet it too late, being distracted over Iraq.<br /><br />There was a strategic purpose in Iraq, Saddam had enough military power and a taste for WMDs and regional expansion to pose a serious, direct threat to UK energy supplies, thus prosperity.<br /><br />Afghanistan never was or is any strategic threat to Britain's interests, but of course it had no military so was easy to kick. The Taliban are not Al-Qaeda and fighting a war in Afghanistan in order to fight Al-Qaeda is like war with Italy to fight the Mafia.<br /><br />Hope this gives you enough, Iain, for a clear explanation next time you are asked.Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-92186308809072967852009-07-18T07:25:16.098+01:002009-07-18T07:25:16.098+01:00In terms of Helicopters the blog post linked by To...In terms of Helicopters the blog post linked by Tony sharp is important as is http://defenceoftherealm.blogspot.com/2009/07/certain-weariness.html if the quickest way to get helicopters which can operate in the heat, dust, and high altitude of Afghanistan, then that is what is needed, and the proposal also shows how by delivering them to the Afghans with initially our support until they are self sufficient they eventually allow us to leave. A plan which says we buy more from Westland which might be available in 2011 so add training a trials 2012-3, so hopefully available for the next operation after Afghanistan but pointless in Helmand.<br /><br />In terms of Mine protection vehicles, this post is useful, http://defenceoftherealm.blogspot.com/2009/07/unwinnable-war.html the point is you can design a vehicle from the beginning to be Mine resistint and do it realitivly cheaply and still have a reasonable performance or you can take a basic truck or vehicle and add on heavy bits of armour and end up with less protection and less performance as the vehicle was never designed to carry the extra weight, and it will cost more. We have gone for the second option every time, giving our troops a worse vehicle with worse performance and protection and it costs more, but may have a British flag on it. The logic of doing that in 2001 if we were planning to be out in 2002 was one thing but the idea that we are not planning to be there for years is now nonsense. <br /><br />In all the blog posts only Ann Winterton gets some praise for raising sensible questions rather than point scoring, a few more MP's from all sides need to get an understanding as to whether they want to support the needs of the troops or the UK Defence Industry as they are not always the same.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05270416768188186705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-43589867817989149572009-07-18T07:24:51.983+01:002009-07-18T07:24:51.983+01:00Ian glad you have found the Defence of the Realm b...Ian glad you have found the Defence of the Realm blog it should be required reading for CCO and any present or future MP who aspires to comment on this conflict. <br /><br />In terms of why are we there, one of the questions that does not seem to be being asked is why UK VOLUNTEERED to be NATO lead nation in Helmand in 2006, this was when Defence Minister Reid, remember him, made the stupid comment about us not needing to fire a shot. Prior to that there was a small Special forces group in the area hunting down and fighting Al-Queda, some British SAS but mainly a few hundred American and a few Germans and Norwegians. <br /><br />Someone decided we should provide a significant force to support the Kabul government take control of the area, as we are now told there are no where enough Afghan Army or Police to do this why it was decreed we should attempt to do this in mid 2006, I do not know, but fear it will be more to do with mid term elections in Washington than anything to do with Afghanistan. Why did the Dutch volunteer to take the lead in Kandahar, well that is easy they had pulled out of Iraq in 2005 and that had annoyed the US. why did UK volunteer to take lead nation status in Helmand, well that is because the UK wanted to get out of Iraq as quickly as possible and wanted to use the excuse of the new mission in Afghanistan as the reason we could not do both.<br /><br />Well unfortunately having agreed to it and sent in the troops, Bush ignored the Iraq Study Group report and the famous surge took place, we did not have the guts to stick to the original plan and say we do not care if you are increasing your troop numbers we are out and feel free to put some extra troops in Basra. <br /><br />We then had 2007-8 when the British were in Basra but now willing to commit any more resources when some would have been needed to defeat the militias which were eventually defeated by the Iraqi Army and the Americans while we stood by and watched, while at the same time the operation in Helmand which was originally meant as a distraction took on a life of it's own. <br /><br />The other Europeans which with the major nations already having thousands of troops in a province of their own elsewhere in Afghanistan had enough sense to realise that there was no need to try and integrate Helamand into Kabul controlled Afghanistan until the Afghan police and Army were ready to cope and the politics of the competing Warlords was prepared, are not going to agree to help as there is no real military need for the mission.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05270416768188186705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-16423361857782154192009-07-18T05:02:01.726+01:002009-07-18T05:02:01.726+01:00Tony,
>>...instead of buying cost effective ...Tony,<br />>>...instead of buying cost effective and reliable equipment, the MoD has insisted on placing orders to secure British jobs and put money into the coffers of British arms companies...<<<br /><br />Substitute 'European' for 'British', and you'd be closer to the truth (Eurofighter, A400M, etc).<br /><br />Though if that were the only problem with defense procurement, I'd be relatively happy.<br />The eight Chinooks which have been sitting in a hangar for nearly a decade are a perfect example of MOD incompetence.Nigelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-55317519992611191022009-07-18T01:43:29.506+01:002009-07-18T01:43:29.506+01:00Are there are recent figures anywhere on the actua...Are there are recent figures anywhere on the actual contribution from our brave European allies?<br /><br />The government seem to be reluctant to criticise them and keep stressing how it is a joint operation but you get the impression that most of them are still not pulling their weight and only doing the nice safe jobs.MBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-25373988237505390422009-07-18T00:22:59.064+01:002009-07-18T00:22:59.064+01:00@anonymous at 9.48pm.
Suggest you get on a plane ...@anonymous at 9.48pm.<br /><br />Suggest you get on a plane and go to Afghanistan.SHBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-89948872152507604572009-07-18T00:08:42.459+01:002009-07-18T00:08:42.459+01:00Has anyone noticed the word "crucible" u...Has anyone noticed the word "crucible" used by different tweeldledums lately?Oldrightiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03192587284458430556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-31697325741741205842009-07-17T23:15:36.358+01:002009-07-17T23:15:36.358+01:00The John Maples approach was right. Ask the specif...The John Maples approach was right. Ask the specific question that deserves an honourable answer. <i>Only problem is Labour always lie, evade or just spin in response</i>. Especially Brown - but they've all had the same training.<br /><br />Brown or Mandelson's responses today are meaningless. What they mean is they want to be seen as doing something and will get even with the military later. ( Expect some key military projects to come under threat for the Army etc soon to help shut the generals up ).<br /><br /><b><a href="http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmhansrd/cm090708/debtext/90708-0003.htm" rel="nofollow">Q5.</a> [284666] Mr. John Maples (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con):</b> The seven soldiers killed in Afghanistan, whose names the right hon. and learned Lady gave us at the start of Prime Minister’s Question Time, bring to exactly 170 the tragic total of those killed in Afghanistan since 2006. Many people in my constituency are starting to doubt the wisdom of this war and I wonder whether she could remind the House of precisely what our military objective in Afghanistan is.<br /><br /><b>Ms Harman:</b> The hon. Gentleman makes a very important point. We do not want anyone to be in any doubt about the importance of this mission in Afghanistan. It is important to ensure that in the mountainous regions surrounding Afghanistan and Pakistan, we do not have a crucible for the development of terrorism, which threatens people not only in those countries but in the wider region and, indeed, the whole world. This mission is also important for the education of people in Afghanistan. There are now 6 million children in school in that country, compared with only 1 million in early 2001. Our troops have paved the way, working with other international forces, to make that possible. They are paving the way for economic development and a more secure democracy as well as security in the region and the world. We want to make it clear to our soldiers, their families and the people of this country that we have no doubt about the importance of the mission in Afghanistan.Man in a Shedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00990902055642035293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-7212265936384138632009-07-17T23:14:31.190+01:002009-07-17T23:14:31.190+01:00"Everytime someone dies now in Afghanistan wi..."Everytime someone dies now in Afghanistan will we blame MoD tactics or Brown?"<br /><br />The MOD is like every corner of Government since 1997. Do as you are told by Jimmy Snot or face dismissal and the loss of any pension.<br />The main focus as always is follow the money. Since we have none left many of the procurement or requirement arguments are answered. The Afghans know this and are easily capable of fomenting our dissatisfaction as they did that of The Russian people. Labour have us in such deep shit I doubt they could even finance the flights home for our troops, except in small numbers, sadly.Oldrightiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03192587284458430556noreply@blogger.com