tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post3824365862576885385..comments2024-03-04T17:54:32.559+00:00Comments on Iain Dale's Diary: Baby P: It's Not Partisan to Ask QuestionsIain Dalehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comBlogger94125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-91717932212888658502008-11-16T10:31:00.000+00:002008-11-16T10:31:00.000+00:00In the Indie today it reports that ".....there has...In the Indie today it reports that <BR/><BR/>".....there has been a huge decline in the number of child protection cases before the courts since new care proceedings came into force earlier this year. <BR/><BR/>"The cost of taking a case to court rose from £150 to £4,000 in May. Social workers need to gather stronger evidence before judges will consider a protective care order."<BR/><BR/>"Social workers and lawyers say there has been a huge decline in the number of child protection cases before the courts since new care proceedings came into force earlier this year.<BR/><BR/>"Fees were increased in an effort to make the courts pay for themselves. The move was opposed by senior judges, the Law Society and the NSPCC. "<BR/><BR/>"A Ministry of Justice spokesman said: "Children's services have an obligation in law to protect children. It would be unlawful for them to avoid taking court proceedings for financial reasons. For these reasons we do not accept that the new fees should have any impact." <BR/><BR/>So the cost in time and man/womanpower of getting a case to court has no impact of the number of cases referred by cash strapped local authorities with a shortage of social workers? <BR/><BR/>Sanctimonious twats.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63019482501814734842008-11-15T19:27:00.000+00:002008-11-15T19:27:00.000+00:00Oh here we go again, David Lindsay, when all else ...Oh here we go again, David Lindsay, when all else fails,blame Lady Thatcher. The reason the father wasn't involved is that he was an alcoholic - also unfit to bring the child up. Although he did see the child he was not considered fit to have custody. And what, he didn't have eyes in his head to see what was becoming of poor baby Peter? Didn't he see the weight loss, the bruises, the cowering? All well and good for him to cry crocidile tears now - where was he when his son needed him? Knocking back the drink. You're full of crap as usual, David Lindsay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-8718517259631605362008-11-15T15:56:00.000+00:002008-11-15T15:56:00.000+00:00If the Parental State had not replaced Baby P's na...If the Parental State had not replaced Baby P's natural father, then this tragedy might very well have been averted. <BR/><BR/>The presence of the natural father is far and away the strongest defence against child abuse of whatever kind.<BR/><BR/>Yet, even in this of all cases, how long has it been before anyone has even bothered to track him down and ask him what he thinks?<BR/><BR/>She who massively extended the Parental State with her wretched Children Act and other measures also destroyed the economic basis of paternal authority, initially in working-class families and communities, and then very rapidly throughout the society that, in any case, she denied existed at all.<BR/><BR/>Her party (which went on to give Helen Brook, weirdo coiner of the very term "the Parental State", the CBE) has learnt nothing, to say the least.<BR/><BR/>It did not even whip its MPs to oppose the legal abolition of fatherhood, now that two women can be named as the parents on a birth certificate.<BR/><BR/>Expect many, many, many more Baby Ps.David Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06839882674758833524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-69047714487030385802008-11-14T23:20:00.000+00:002008-11-14T23:20:00.000+00:00So that's OK then, everyone followed procedures, s...So that's OK then, everyone followed procedures, so noone is to blame. I'm glad we've got that straight. Or maybe the procedures are wrong? (Not least the procedure for referring complaints back to the local authority which committed them in the first place).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63805586615277619172008-11-14T21:46:00.000+00:002008-11-14T21:46:00.000+00:00I won't claim to have all 88 comments in detail bu...I won't claim to have all 88 comments in detail but am not surprised that the discussion is no longer about an infanticide case but about reactions of politicians to it, then the reaction of bloggers to the politicians, then the reactions of the great unwashed like me to the bloggers.<BR/><BR/>Who the blue blazes is Bob Piper? Can anyone tell me why he matters?<BR/><BR/>John Pickworth is the only poster whose contribution has served any obvious end other than his own moral vanity.<BR/><BR/>I saw saw something like this once. In 1986, a female student fell out of a window onto some railings in the middle of the night. The student common room had a "something must be done" debate and everone started attacking each other like rats.<BR/><BR/>It's bred in the bone. Humanity is collectively insane. <BR/><BR/>Over and out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-15337660692914576642008-11-14T21:32:00.000+00:002008-11-14T21:32:00.000+00:00@ workrobotwork More pertinent, who the hell does...@ workrobotwork <BR/><BR/>More pertinent, who the hell does Piper think he is?Unsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307116169498533047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-56753192274909606262008-11-14T19:50:00.000+00:002008-11-14T19:50:00.000+00:00Its difficult to believe that any rational person ...Its difficult to believe that any rational person would deny that Browns behaviour at PMQs was sickening and heartless.<BR/>However having linked to Pipers website its obvious he doesnt fit into that category.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-66041689008034138602008-11-14T19:39:00.000+00:002008-11-14T19:39:00.000+00:00Who the hell is Bob Piper?Who the hell is Bob Piper?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-51990533165456026152008-11-14T19:08:00.000+00:002008-11-14T19:08:00.000+00:00I am happy to embrace the full-blooded political p...I am happy to embrace the full-blooded political processes that should be at the heart of our parliament. I am however thoroughly disgusted by those on the government benches, in office and on the back benches, who fail to understand that Baby P’s fate is entirely of their making. What are Social Services for if not to prevent such heartbreaking events – much of government service has been corrupted by the overlay of socialist “principles” promoted by people who would seem incapable of tying their own shoelaces. “These people” (I am aware of the background of this phrase) are unfit in every respect to be in government, their incompetence knows no bounds, they bring shame on our great Nation and should find a dark corner, in which to curl up and die.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-66997620219126328172008-11-14T17:50:00.000+00:002008-11-14T17:50:00.000+00:00Just to diversify a little, one of the things I no...Just to diversify a little, one of the things I noticed in all of this was the assertion at PMQs that the report into Harringey's performance had only been delivered to the Children's Secretary that morning.<BR/><BR/>I believe this may turn out to be a bit of a Brownie. The document took, I think, a little bit less than 15 months to write - a huge time. One of the reasons for this was that it was bounced backwards and forwards between all the interested parties for comments, corrections and counter-arguments. One of the interested parties, who will have had ample chance to see and comment on the drafts of the document, was Balls's department. What happened at 10.00 on Wednesday was only the first sight of the document as a final version in printed form, not by any means the first opportunity to know anything, indeed everything, about what was in it.<BR/><BR/>Cameron knew this, of course. So did Brown. In fact anyone who has had anything to do with the operation of government knew this.<BR/><BR/>The question, therefore, is why did Brown try to fob Cameron off with such an evasive answer to a straight question? Cameron was right to be annoyed. Brown's answer was economical, to say the least. Cameron knew that too. In the circumstances, who wouldn't be angry?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-86703915910985726612008-11-14T17:47:00.000+00:002008-11-14T17:47:00.000+00:00I have just seen the photo of baby Peter in the Te...I have just seen the photo of baby Peter in the Telegraph and more than ever I wish the worst on those bastards who were responsible for his death. To see that poor, trusting, innocent face and then to imagine the horrors done to him is just heartbreaking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-53075344943306839082008-11-14T17:40:00.000+00:002008-11-14T17:40:00.000+00:00Oh dear, the post-coital bliss of the Obamasm must...Oh dear, the post-coital bliss of the Obamasm must have worn off as Canvas is decidedly cranky again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-32475660346910878042008-11-14T17:35:00.000+00:002008-11-14T17:35:00.000+00:00Oh, thought one of my comments didn't go through s...Oh, thought one of my comments didn't go through so I posted again...<BR/><BR/>apologies for double-ish post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-6673660623874951382008-11-14T17:32:00.000+00:002008-11-14T17:32:00.000+00:00One of the papers published pictures of the social...One of the papers published pictures of the social worker who dealt with the case, her boss and the head of the council.<BR/><BR/>The social worker looked harassed and probably overworked.<BR/><BR/>I somehow cannot imagine her boss actually "getting her hands dirty" and actually dealing with a case like this directly personally. This applied even more to the head of the council.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-84585680773677777392008-11-14T17:23:00.000+00:002008-11-14T17:23:00.000+00:00Social Services are having a well-deserved bad wee...Social Services are having a well-deserved bad week. We now have a whole new light in which to view their highly organised kidnap of children from Old Labour homes in order to place them, via Family Courts whose secrecy is incompatible with the rule of law, in New Labour homes.<BR/><BR/>And the old line from Yes, Minister that social problems increase in order to occupy the time of the number of social workers employed to deal with them springs horribly to mind. Those who killed Baby P are their client class. The working class, properly so called, is not.<BR/><BR/>But they are not the only people who deserve excoriation.<BR/><BR/>How dare the Tories, of all people, preach about these matters? Not only (though certainly) because they brought in Thatcher's Children Act.<BR/><BR/>And not only (though certainly) because the economic basis of paternal authority was destroyed - initially in working-class families and communities, but then very rapidly throughout society as a whole - by their heroine, who had left her own small children to hired help while she pursued first her legal and then her political ambitions.<BR/><BR/>There are many ways in which the Tories have long, or even always, been actively hostile to the views and values of those on whose votes they depend. Support for the anti-national, anti-farming, anti-manufacturing, anti-shopkeeping, anti-local, anti-family “free” market is one. Their actual record in office on the EU and on Northern Ireland is another. And there are plenty more.<BR/><BR/>But there is none more flagrant or more fatal than the fact that they are not just largely products (which they cannot help), but also almost invariably users and stalwart defenders, of just about the most anti-family institutions imaginable, founded on the premise that children should be brought up with as little parental contact as possible except when it comes to paying the bills, and organised towards the acting out of adolescence in single-sex residential environments.David Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06839882674758833524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-63936700346358083602008-11-14T17:07:00.000+00:002008-11-14T17:07:00.000+00:00This urgent message has just gone round BBC news. ...This urgent message has just gone round BBC news. Sigh.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>URGENT URGENT<BR/><BR/>Do Not tape the David Cameron statement on Baby P coming from ITN around 1730 Live. <BR/>He referes to Baby P as a GIRL.<BR/>It will need to be edited. </I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-59129330933560662622008-11-14T16:59:00.000+00:002008-11-14T16:59:00.000+00:00Iain, Why was Beckett's comment ludicrous? She wa...Iain, Why was Beckett's comment ludicrous? She was being honest. <BR/><BR/>Why didn't you become a social worker? Yet you wanted to be an elected politician? (a still unrealised ambition)..<BR/><BR/>Perhaps she thought she could serve the public best by doing what she does. That's her right.<BR/><BR/>It's unhelpful to make petty personal comments for partisan reasons when you're dealing with a human tragedy.<BR/><BR/>So, here is another £ for you...<BR/>"Not one of your finer moments", Iain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-62789816370576627372008-11-14T16:56:00.000+00:002008-11-14T16:56:00.000+00:00Iain,I would definatly contest your first paragrap...Iain,<BR/><BR/>I would definatly contest your first paragraph but I guess that is part of the problem now isnt it. Whomever you blame most (Brown or Cameron, left or right) the fact is that the exchange at PMQ's has now polarised the debate on the substantive issues. <BR/><BR/>If what one of the comments said above is true and it's not even technically correct that this department was 'investigating itself' then that further muddies the waters. <BR/><BR/>Substantively it is true that there should be independance for any inquiry and it should be left to this inquiry to determine the competancy or lack of it of the people involved. If people are found wanting then they will lose their job and that is as it should be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-42540400530522146282008-11-14T16:50:00.000+00:002008-11-14T16:50:00.000+00:00Iain - "I wish I had a £1 for everyone who says "n...Iain - "I wish I had a £1 for everyone who says "not one of your finer moments"<BR/><BR/>You get that alot then? <BR/><BR/>I don;t think Beckett's comment was 'ludicrous'. It was honest and it is obviously how she feels.<BR/><BR/>For example, why didn't you go become a social worker? Why did you want to be a politician (even if that ambition was unrealised)?<BR/><BR/>What is right or wrong about having certain skills for certain jobs?<BR/><BR/>I think you are being unreasonable and your argument is unhelpful. It's almost pointless.<BR/><BR/>The facts need to come out into the public domain and appropriate action needs to be taken. Your personal attacks don't make any sense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-11621415524985275122008-11-14T16:47:00.000+00:002008-11-14T16:47:00.000+00:00Tough titty, Jimmy Hill.Tough titty, Jimmy Hill.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-38592446885685277632008-11-14T16:43:00.000+00:002008-11-14T16:43:00.000+00:00I wish I had a £1 for everyone who says "not one o...I wish I had a £1 for everyone who says "not one of your finer moments". That comment is certainly not one of yours. Beckett's comment was ludicrous and I make no apology for highlighting it. The spin you put on it is, of course, wrong. Are you seriously suggesting that what I have said in the first part of this post is not a legitimate comment? What are we all supposed to do. Go mute? There are legitimate issues for discussion here. It's not about party politics, but if Gordon Brown turns it into that, please don't blame me if I respond.Iain Dalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03270146219458384372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-56056992861932334322008-11-14T16:39:00.000+00:002008-11-14T16:39:00.000+00:00Iain, by making that Beckett comment a "Quote of t...Iain, by making that Beckett comment a "Quote of the Day" you attempted to trivialise a serious issue.<BR/><BR/>Bob Piper is right to say that social workers are "bloody hard working, committed people doing one hell of a job under desperately sad circumstances."<BR/><BR/>Beckett was right to say to what she said. There's nothing wrong with recognising your limitations. <BR/><BR/>I think you've made a mistake to perpetuate this Baby P tragedy as some kind of party political contest. <BR/><BR/>Not one of your finer moments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-1983949234137640402008-11-14T16:20:00.000+00:002008-11-14T16:20:00.000+00:00oh, and I said 'old' because your moniker always c...oh, and I said 'old' because your moniker always conjures up the image of the Thatcher witch for meAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-74383213980144562232008-11-14T16:14:00.000+00:002008-11-14T16:14:00.000+00:00Lady FInteresting that you say I work in Burger Ki...Lady F<BR/><BR/>Interesting that you say I work in Burger King as if that were an insult. Vile snobbery. Some people have to work in boring jobs for little money - that's capitalism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6214838.post-72039709978393822692008-11-14T16:05:00.000+00:002008-11-14T16:05:00.000+00:00Yet you still link to Bob Piper, Iain. If he wants...Yet you still link to Bob Piper, Iain. If he wants to know what scum looks like he should look in the mirror.Theo Sparkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04377625689882223233noreply@blogger.com